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HTC finally gives in! The Vive price cut has arrived

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  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 1,068
    Wintermute
    [warning, in a mood - not sick for the first time in two weeks, and the wife has already said "thank gods I'm going out today" to me twice]

    it's going to be very interesting to see how AR/MR is integrated into our lives in the next 10-15 years.. Microsoft (and Apples) constant reinvention (or outright purchase) of a Technology and trying to make it seem like they started the whole thing is fairly typical for them. sometimes it works (MS-DOS, Office, Visio), and sometimes it fails badly (Zune, Windows Mobile 8).

    :smiley:  and before anyone gets on the "open office/Lotus Domino/<insert some esoteric community solution here> is better" bandwagon, alls I can say is I've been working in the Enterprise space for 20+ years and it's rarely (I'd say never but Lotus Domino/Notes was a contender back in the day) been a mainstream thing. sure the backbone of the internet is built on Linux (have 1000's of servers running it at work), but if you want lots of people to use it every day, it's windows (unless they're an artiste then it's OSX).

    I suspect that Microsofts attempt will either work well and a lot of (uninformed) people will say that it's the mainstream VR and unit's like the Rift is the goto when you want quality (though the price drop will help there I hope, I like my Rift), or it'll be another case of them climbing on the bandwagon too late and they'll drop it for normal users. regardless of which way it turns out, we'll be visiting VR places, and having information overlayed onto the environment from here on. which is friken amazing regardless of who you are.

    I am often reminded of a post I saw once back in the late 90's on the old Wearables pages (might have been Thad Starner who said it or someone similar) who was talking about cyberpunk being the coming reality, and they then dropped in a "as he finishes writing the post, he leaves the subway, selecting the tunes he wants to listen to as he merges into the seething mass of New York City and looks for his fixer to organise the next run".

    it was a funny byline at the time, but it's kinda true.. the distopia isn't here (though getting closer maybe, distopia is a hard one to quantify coz it creeps up on you apparently) but the tech is definitely on it's way. or is it just me who still has those moments when you go "holy f#ck, I have a super powerful computer in my pocket, access to any information on the planet, and any movie, music or thing I desire"?
    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
    a plum is a terrible thing to do to a nostril.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,502 Valuable Player
    Being 45 years old I still have those moments too. When I first started to get into PC gaming in the early 90s I started off with a 386 and was pretty gobsmacked when I built my next machine with (I think!) a P75. 75MHz :o:D:D:D

    Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Quake and Duke Nukem 3D were all jaw dropping at the time in terms of eye candy, difficult to believe that now if you weren't there to see it lol
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,155 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    Another update:

    Vive Unlikely To Save HTC As August Sales Plummet


    Vive, HTC's virtual reality system, so far has been a drain on the company's finances.

    HTC, a Taiwanese smartphone maker, extended a losing streak on Thursday, plummeting to 63 Taiwan dollars (US$2.09) at one point, down T$5.5, or 8.02%, from Wednesday. It was the stock's lowest level in about 2 and a half weeks. It finished at T$64, down 6.56%. The tumble is attributable to a 54% year-on-year fall in August group sales to T$3 billion. The disappointing results, announced on Wednesday after the marked had closed, triggered heavy selling.

    Some market participants expect sales to recover as Google's Pixel 2 smartphone, which HTC builds, is on track for release.

    https://www.vrroom.buzz/vr-news/business/vive-unlikely-save-htc-august-sales-plummet

    In a stunning twist of fate... HTC is relying on the Smart Phone business to help them recover from the financial drain caused by the Vive.

    I think that Vive owners who previously "didn't care what HTC's Mobile division is doing" had better start caring, and stat!

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,162 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    ....
    Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Quake and Duke Nukem 3D were all jaw dropping at the time in terms of eye candy, difficult to believe that now if you weren't there to see it lol
    Being of a slightly older age, but agree that I still have those moments - from when I remember the installing Doom, and then look at the recent relaunch - the amazing leap in quality over such a short period. Its hard to find another medium that has seen such a textural change over such a period.
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
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  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,712 Valuable Player
    Doom and Battlechess sucked away so much of my childhood.
    WAAAGH!
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,712 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    Just took this from the American Amazon listings.
    Even Amazon prefers the Rift Atmos. ;)
    In all seriousness im glad the Vive is still doing good in the UK.
    What was
    1,2, and 3?

    Right Now the Rift without touch is marked as #3 all time in the states amd the Rift touch combi is #6 so the sales are split where Oculus is concerned.

    WAAAGH!
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,155 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    Atmos73 said:
    Back on Topic

    The Vive jumps ahead of Rift sales on Amazon.com dispite being $100 more.

    I'm glad you brought this up, because the latest Global Market report was released, and the Vive didn't even make Top 3:

    Q2: Global AR/VR Market - Samsung, Sony, and Oculus are in the lead

    The worldwide augmented reality and virtual reality headset market was up 25.5% on the year in Q2, according to IDC. Total shipments were 2.1M.
     
    VR headsets accounted for 98% of the market and untethered units dominated over half the market with tethered headsets accounting for 43%, up from 34% sequentially.


    Samsung (OTC:SSNNF, OTC:SSNLF) led the market with 568K shipped units and a 26.7% market share. The untethered Gear VR did decline on the year but a boost in average selling prices kept Samsung in the lead.
     
    Sony (NYSE:SNE) came second with 519.4K units and 24.4% market share. The company’s PlayStation VR led tethered headsets.
     
    Facebook (NASDAQ:FB) came third with 246.9K units and an 11.6% share. Facebook had dropped Oculus Rift prices by $100 to $499 in the quarter, which started a price cut trend.

    Source:
    https://seekingalpha.com/news/3293506-worldwide-ar-vr-market-25_5-percent-q2-samsung-leads

    On a Global Scale: Rift just outsold the Vive.

    Also note that Samsung's sales are for Gear VR which still runs the Oculus Firmware, and Oculus receives a percentage from each Software Application any consumers buy for the Gear VR B)

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,155 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    Samsung 26%
    Sony 24%
    Oculus 11%

    I'm only seeing 61%
    The other companies make up the rest. Vive is somewhere in what remains after you subtract 61 from 100 :D
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  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,421 Volunteer Moderator
    Atmos73 said:
    Where's the figures for Vive?
    Click zenbane's link, click the source link on that page.



  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    Keep pretending atmos and hanging on to every small thread you can find
    This is my forum signature.
    There are many others like it, but this is mine.
  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,421 Volunteer Moderator
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,502 Valuable Player
    The Rift has been catching up to the Vive in unit sales since the first price cut to $599. I'm disappointed that the last price cut to $399 wasn't made permanently tbh.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,712 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    Atmos if you look at the chart what they said was yrue at full price the vive was damn near unsellable.

    It wasnt until the price drop that the Vive started catching up again for sales last quarter.

    And I think we can all agree that the Vive needed to drop its price to compete.
    WAAAGH!
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,155 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    Atmos73 said:
    Infact it's leaving the Rift for dead.
    I love that you're desperately playing around with Amazon.com Filters to salvage what is left of your failing product. This is what the Facebook/Oculus business model that you loathe so much has reduced you to :D

    On a Global Scale the Vive doesn't even Rank Top 3 for sales, yet Oculus Firmware supports the #1 seller and the Oculus Rift ranks #3; with the Vive not even placing...

    The only things "left for dead" are the HTC Vive and Atmos' Math skills B)
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  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 810
    3Jane
    I really never thought I'd see a console war between PC gamers and yet here we are. It will hurt the entire VR community if either the Vive or Rift fail. We need every major VR manufacturer and game developer to succeed.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,155 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    I really never thought I'd see a console war between PC gamers and yet here we are. It will hurt the entire VR community if either the Vive or Rift fail. We need every major VR manufacturer and game developer to succeed.
    This argument has been presented a lot over the past year, and it's still false. It will not hurt the VR Community if the Vive fails any more than it hurt the console community when Atari and Sega fail out of the race.

    Many technology platforms have come and gone over the years; the Industry thrives just fine.

    LG is replacing the Vive anyway.
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  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,712 Valuable Player
    Im hoping for neural inputs so we sont need screens............ :*:*
    WAAAGH!
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,758 Valuable Player
    kojack said:
    mmm The one thing this graphic doesn't show is that fact that Vive still not seeing the growth rates that it needs. Remember, it's NOT getting the same kick back as the Rift is for selling the unit + the software. So even if they are selling close to the same - they had to cut price for the unit taking down their over all income. That is the real evil all VR headset makers will face as we continue :) The only real players will be the ones that have real strong already setup store eco systems that are going to pay off in the long run.

    How many people post here about 3rd party headsets in the first place? How many people even come here just to say "well the (rift or vive) is good - but we need more content". 
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,758 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    Atmos73 said:
    LG is not replacing the Vive unless it either comes out long before the Vive2 or has had a significant technological advantage over Vive2. At this time no one knows exactly what each will offer as with Rift2.


    It kind of will though - see Vive will have to compete with the customer base that didn't buy the Rift - so they will be directly fighting for their share of the pie - if it's already shaky for Vive - they will in a way replace the current standings that the Vive is filling in for now. It all depends on who is making enough to keep a float and has enough to keep growing with it at the end of the day.

    This is why I said steam should offer a kick back system with the current headset providers that team up with them and use their technology. Long as the customer base keeps buying software - then the store really shouldn't have worry about making such a deal with 3rd party headset makers really. Long as the headset makers can make some money or have a little room to play with -then it shouldn't be a problem to keep moving forward with VR and allowing it to grow as a community.

    Why should they? Because VR is still young and has a TON more growth than that of the current 2d monitor is providing right now (everyone already has a monitor or can buy them on the cheap now a days). With that said - why NOT push it forward and allow it to grow to become a whole new industry that will take over and everyone will need to buy a new setup? It makes money/time sense to do it now and get your players in a row fast so the over all growth works out faster in the long term.

    More users that have your device and access to your store - the more money you make - it's all chicken in the egg - but you have to give and take a little to make it work. You can't be 100% greedy all the time.
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,446 Volunteer Moderator
    kojack said:
    Atmos73 said:
    Where's the figures for Vive?
    Click zenbane's link, click the source link on that page.



    Interestingly, this is Q2 data (April to June), so these numbers don't even include the Summer of Rift sale. So Oculus was already whipping HTC's ass before they blew them out of the water by dropped another $200 off the price of premium VR. 
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,502 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    LG is not replacing the Vive unless it either comes out long before the Vive2 or has had a significant technological advantage over Vive2. At this time no one knows exactly what each will offer as with Rift2.


    We already know that it has higher res screens than both the Rift and the Vive and is most likely to be cheaper than the Vive due to LG manufacturing their own panels. My guess would be that you'll be able to buy it for $499, $100 cheaper than the Vive. The disadvantage that the LG headset will have is the same disadvantage that the Vive has - they're both using Valve's expensive to produce  Lighthouse technology. The Rift CV1 is using and the Rift CV2 will be using the cheaper to produce Constellation system so they will ALWAYS be cheaper to buy.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,758 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    snowdog said:
    Atmos73 said:
    LG is not replacing the Vive unless it either comes out long before the Vive2 or has had a significant technological advantage over Vive2. At this time no one knows exactly what each will offer as with Rift2.


    We already know that it has higher res screens than both the Rift and the Vive and is most likely to be cheaper than the Vive due to LG manufacturing their own panels. My guess would be that you'll be able to buy it for $499, $100 cheaper than the Vive. The disadvantage that the LG headset will have is the same disadvantage that the Vive has - they're both using Valve's expensive to produce  Lighthouse technology. The Rift CV1 is using and the Rift CV2 will be using the cheaper to produce Constellation system so they will ALWAYS be cheaper to buy.
    You wouldn't even need to buy the cameras again for CV2. Maybe upgrade them if they come out with new wider faster higher resolution cameras, but over all - CV2 will cost even less if you don't need any of the cameras either.
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 810
    3Jane
    Zenbane said:
    I really never thought I'd see a console war between PC gamers and yet here we are. It will hurt the entire VR community if either the Vive or Rift fail. We need every major VR manufacturer and game developer to succeed.
    This argument has been presented a lot over the past year, and it's still false. It will not hurt the VR Community if the Vive fails any more than it hurt the console community when Atari and Sega fail out of the race.

    Many technology platforms have come and gone over the years; the Industry thrives just fine.

    LG is replacing the Vive anyway.

    There will come a time when the giants of VR fall. That is inevitable and a healthy thing as it will be the result of innovation. But now is not that time. Imagine if Sega had gone bankrupt after launching their very first console. The entire console market might not exist at all if that had happened (such failures spook investors and boards of directors across the industry). Instead, they went broke about 15 years later when the profitability of consoles was no longer in question. They were pushed out by new console makers, not a lack of console market. The Vive failing due to a lack of customers rather than due to competition is a very, very bad thing for all of us who like VR.
  • RorschachPhoenixRorschachPhoenix Posts: 1,594 Valuable Player
    Excuse my bad english. I speak to you through the google translator. :P
  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 2,007 Valuable Player
    Always on my wavelength B)
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • RorschachPhoenixRorschachPhoenix Posts: 1,594 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    Don't give a shit but here you are reading a thread labout HTC. Funny.

    Excuse my bad english. I speak to you through the google translator. :P
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,446 Volunteer Moderator
    Atmos73 said:
    nalex66 said:
    kojack said:
    Atmos73 said:
    Where's the figures for Vive?
    Click zenbane's link, click the source link on that page.



    Interestingly, this is Q2 data (April to June), so these numbers don't even include the Summer of Rift sale. So Oculus was already whipping HTC's ass before they blew them out of the water by dropped another $200 off the price of premium VR. 
    That chart states September 5th which is when the Rift sale ended, so the summer sale is included unless I'm mistaken.
    The data was released on September 5th, but the article and source data clearly say Q2, and the article also references the Rift price drop from $599 to $499, which was the spring reduction on the Rift-only kit. 
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,502 Valuable Player
    Cheers @nalex66 you saved me a bit of typing there. :D

    It has been pretty clear to anyone that views the sub-Reddits for each headset regularly that the Rift has been catching up to the Vive sales since they first cut the price to $599.

    And the latest Steam Survey, who @Atmos73 seems to believe is 100% accurate, shows that the Rift sales have almost caught up. That survey doesn't include people that don't choose to take part in the survey, headsets that aren't plugged in, Chinese Vive sales or Rift owners that don't go anywhere near Steam though. It also, as far as I'm aware at least but I will stand to be corrected if I'm wrong, doesn't survey EVERYONE that is running Steam but a random sampling of Steam members.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,421 Volunteer Moderator
    snowdog said:
    It also, as far as I'm aware at least but I will stand to be corrected if I'm wrong, doesn't survey EVERYONE that is running Steam but a random sampling of Steam members.
    Yep, the survey is given to a random selection of users only, and they need to agree to it when asked.
    If Steam hasn't asked you recently if you'd like to do a survey, your system isn't included in the results.

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,155 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    Atmos73 said:
    That's right it doesn't Survey everyone but it doesn't have to as it's only reporting market share not sales. You can't tell me Rifters disconnect their Rifts or purposely avoid the Steam sale so as not to be counted. The Steam Survey auto detects headsets plugged in that's it. The Survey could cover 1000 people, 10000 or 1million it wouldn't matter its a percentage.

    You lost the Steam Survey debate last year. Spamming it repeatedly won't somehow make the Steam Survey valid. The Steam Survey is Optional. A fact you ignore every time you type up your self-defeating argument about Rift owners disconnecting their Rifts :D

    HTC lost. The Vive lost. Atmos73 lost.

    The Steam survey failed to predict HTC's demise (HTC is trying to sell the Vive to Google right now).

    Atmos73 said:
    But you keep reading and posting.
    RorschachPhoenix is a Rift owner; you are not. You are a Vive owner who spent a year betting that Oculus would lose but your Vive ended up losing... yet you keep reading and posting on a Rift forum :D

    Besides, what he's saying is he doesn't care about your spammy dodge tactics. You are doing everything you can to avoid admitting defeat, yet the defeat is painfully obvious. No one should care about your antics. You gotta man up soon and just admit you lost. Then the learning and healing can begin o:)

    @Atmos73 said:
    That chart states September 5th which is when the Rift sale ended, so the summer sale is included unless I'm mistaken.
    Nope. The Chart shows that September is the source of the "publication" but the data is clearly marked "Q2." It says Q2 more than once! :D

    Since you're clearly typing frantically (the ongoing losses of HTC and the Vive hurt, I know), I will explain it to you:

    Q1 = Quarter 1 = Jan, Feb, Mar
    Q2 = Quarter 2 = Apr, May, Jun
    Q3 = Quarter 3 = Jul, Aug, Sep

    I will let you figure out what Q4 means.
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