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Could This be Samsung's New Windows MR Headset?

kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
edited September 2017 in General


Could This be Samsung's New Windows MR Headset?
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** Second New Book **
"The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,978 Valuable Player
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
    Yeah, but there was always a danger right up to running the images that they may have been "shopped" like those images of the Switch VR.

    The only interesting thing now is will they have "Powered by Oculus" on the side  B)
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,978 Valuable Player
    Looks blumming nice, i have to say.

    These are all tethered aren't they?  Bit of a cop-out not showing a great big cable dangling from it - and that goes for all those before it too.
  • Steve30xSteve30x Posts: 5
    NerveGear
    It would be nice if Oculus made that kind of headband for the rift. I've usd my brothers PS VR and that type of headband helps make the headset feel very very comfortable
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,978 Valuable Player
    Steve30x said:
    It would be nice if Oculus made that kind of headband for the rift. I've usd my brothers PS VR and that type of headband helps make the headset feel very very comfortable
    How are they when you look down at your feet?  Does it hold the headset securely to avoid it dropping and blurring vision?

    I know users who are using the Vive and they need to look down a lot - the weight of it combined with crappy headstraps means it blurs like mad, even when tight.
  • RichooalRichooal Posts: 1,604 Valuable Player
    Looks blumming nice, i have to say.

    These are all tethered aren't they?  Bit of a cop-out not showing a great big cable dangling from it - and that goes for all those before it too.
    Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I think I see that cable in all 3 pics. :*
    i5 6600k - GTX1060 - 8GB RAM - Rift CV1 + 3 Senors - 0 PROBLEMS 1 minor problem
    Dear Oculus, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", please.

  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,978 Valuable Player
    Richooal said:
    Looks blumming nice, i have to say.

    These are all tethered aren't they?  Bit of a cop-out not showing a great big cable dangling from it - and that goes for all those before it too.
    Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I think I see that cable in all 3 pics. :*
    lmao oh yeah, so it is!

    I apologise to Mr Samsung  :*
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,153 Valuable Player
    it looks tidy, and imo is the 1st hmd to give the rift a run for its money in terms of good quality aesthetic design. (that alone would not make me buy or not buy, but actually looking like its not some half finished dev kit is a good thing imo.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
    Steve30x said:
    It would be nice if Oculus made that kind of headband for the rift. I've usd my brothers PS VR and that type of headband helps make the headset feel very very comfortable
    The Sony (HMZ/PSVR) headband design has been seen across the sector as a solid approach to HMD comfort. Sony are rumored to have allowed a number of the WinMR manufacturers the option to use it under a agreement, and the new LG system (PC) is using a similar approach.

    I have used both the normal straps and the band - and the band works well when the light gasket is properly fitted, (the issue of looking up and down and it still being seated properly is down to design and adjustment). Also, seeing this Samsung design using the same headphone arrangement as CV1 is fascinating. Kind of changes the discussion of what a CV2 would have looked like?  

    I am kind of getting pre-Facebook vibes again:


    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,071 Valuable Player
    So have these images been confirmed as genuine?


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,303
    Neo
    edited September 2017
    I agree it's definitely the first HMD since the rift to look like it competes on overall quality, possibly even surpasses it (those AKG logos look tasty and will help sell it). Genuine or not it looks on point to me so I'd say 'yes' and can't see why not. 

    Having had PSVR (and vive) and rift, ergonomically my ideal is somewhere between PSVR and RIFT (and as far away from VIVE as we can get thanks!). That said, I don't believe the PSVR style system is the be-all and end-all of ergonomics, it solves a couple of issues in VR, namely fast fitting for various people (no strap adjusting which can get tedious) and removal of face weight (which when you feel it is very liberating - your eyes can 'breathe' your face muscles move naturally, your mouth can smile properly without any skin drag, it feels really really good and on that score allows more immersion, naturally, and less tiring of the eyes and face. For me the rift isn't all that bad on these points already, but obviously the removal of it completely is 'ideal', the vive by comparison was really horrible on the face, you had to clamp it down so hard to stop it moving that it was almost suffocating and very unlikable. I'd honestly say rift feels ergonomically closer to PSVR than to VIVE even though it uses a face clamp style like vive. DK2 felt better on my face than vive did!

    It's not all roses though imo, the thicker plastic headband that takes all the weight in this style of fitment has a couple of issues (maybe the sammy and other MS MR's won't be as bad here as PSVR) but firstly, the overall head 'clamp' thing can get uncomfy after a while, especially on the sides, because it's totally rigid, even if relatively 'giving' plastic. It feels great at first then starts to ache. The overall weight too is a downside (PSVR was the heaviest of the big 3 but didn't feel as heavy as vive thanks to good balance) but it still had too much weight, again something you feel after prolonged use rather than at first where the lack of face weight feels great. I'd say it's always better to have the weight on the head than the face and here PSVR and this Samsung will have the rift beat.

    Though what I've come to like about rift ergonomically is something I doubt Samsung can do and PSVR didn't do, these are those things:

    • The ability to use a SINGLE hand to put/pull the rift over your head like a baseball cap, makes getting into VR feel very natural, easy and less chore like. PSVR was way better than vive but even so it was still like 'fitting something' onto your head each time, lower on, tighten back clamp, pull visor in, etc. On rift once you have the straps set once and if only for your use, you can just pull it on time and time again with ZERO adjsutment, just a wiggle to seat it right and you are off. This can't be replicated with PSVR style imo and is a downside.
    • The overall head weight/feel (not face) on rift is very discreet, to the point I rarely notice it on my head at all, it never aches, it never gets tiring (even after 3+ hours) while PSVR would after an hour if that. This leads to the next point...
    • Due to rift's very minimal head strap (thickness wise) it means you can comfily lean back/lie flat/rest the back of your head on your comfy chair and it feels natural. With PSVR you had a massive half inch+ bar behind your head so it never feels comfy when you lean your head on something, it also reminds you you are wearing something.
    • This samsung has built in phones GREAT! I'll never buy another HMD without rift style built in phones, I love them (for ergonomics and ease of use which honestly trumps overall sound quality for consistent/pleasureable VR use), psvr has aftermarket clip ons now, but due to the thick plastic construction of the headband around the ears combined with that extra plastic it can start to feel janky around the earholes, not super comfy and soft like the rift. I hope samsun have addressed that due to them being built in and have slimmed down the weight and thickness of the bonce clamp all over.
    So for me it's 50/50 on ergonomics for PSVR and RIFT. When I had the vive and went to the PSVR it was like night and day and I couldn't say enough good things about PSVR's comfort, but then using the Rift day in day (far more than I ever used PSVR or VIVE) I can say I'd tolerate the slight annoyance of the rift's face touching design over the ache of the headclamp right now. Maybe because the rift's weight and overall design is just enough to offset the 'non ideal' face clamping method it just pips the PSVR to the post on ergonomics for me. The ideal would be a rift headstrap with a PSVR/Samsung style front (inc FLIP UP like samsung which would be brilliant when you are in/out of VR developing stuff), I can't see how anyone can do that though because if they want 'floating in front of face' display unit they have to go mental on the head bracket part.

    One thing is if you do share your HMD a lot, the PSVR/Headbracket design would probably work out better for you because there's nothing more offputting about sharing VR than knowing you'll lose your perfect strap settings or have to fiddle around trying to find someone else's perfect settings (and never really knowing if your GF for example has truly the best settings as she may not realise how good it can be and you can't do it for her). 

    To the guy above who asked about looking down? IIRC there were no issues with that on PSVR though I think actually it may have felt a bit dodgy like it could slip off, but only if you were looking 90 degrees down. I think rift wins here again as it feels more secure. Looking up is similar. Vive on the other hand is awful in every way, the display box shifts and blurs when looking down and the front heavy weight (at least on the early units and without DAS) was a bit of a killer for any fast action.

    Rift style wins on:

    head comfort
    single handed usability
    throw on/pull of ease of use (one handed)
    headphone/ear comfort
    soft/comfy feel that is less like putting your head in a machine and more like wearing a cap

    PSVR style wins on:

    Multi user ease of use/swapping
    Face weight (no drag no itching)
    Ease of seeing outside of VR (slide forward or flip up on samsung)
    Inertial movement left/right at speed (though rift is hardly bad here and doesn't shift around unlike the awful Vive)

    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
    Poster of the week who never got a T-Shirt ;( dayum they looked tasty!
  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,303
    Neo
    edited September 2017
    Interesting... I wonder if LG are going to man up anytime soon and speak more about their steam VR one? I still have a lot of doubts about this first wave of MS MR HMDs even with that minor res increase it's the whole controller tracking and LCD use thing, plus it's early days for MS on the software side (ASW etc) and I detest the MS store.

    Who knows, it's Samsung, they know displays maybe they'll surprise us and have a much better quality than the other MS ones and use a custom OLED screen. I want super black blacks in VR not faded grey with motion blur.

    That said, a company like Samsung gives me faith in their product (customer service and logistics) so this could be a possible buy and try for me but it's not exactly a leap over the rift. Probably still better waiting for gen 2. At least the MS ones don't rely solely on a track pad, but they aren't as good as the touch controllers still. Probably better to let others be guinea pigs on this and wait for price drops next year or gen 2.
    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
    Poster of the week who never got a T-Shirt ;( dayum they looked tasty!
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,978 Valuable Player
    Agreed, if you already have a Vive or Rift, to buy a new headset which isn't better and won't have the apps and games doesn't make sense.  I've had more than one HMD in the past but i've settled on the Rift, i've invested heavily in games, HOTAS, 1080 ti etc, while they may be reasonably cheap there's just no need.

    I think it will be difficult for the these new HMDs to break through - they need to advertise heavily - the mainstream media won't do as much as it did with the Rift and Vive.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
    It's a fascinating business situation one year on - you have either:

    -PC VR
    -WinMR VR
    -Mobile VR/AR
    -Daydream VR
    -Console VR

    For the PC VR community they feel they are at the top of the tree on quality, and with the best content and experience so far - but the business community is feeling that this sector is not enough to support and are looking at the mobileVR (as well as Daydream and WinMR) as a better longterm bet.

    All this and the ConsoleVR scene (basically Sony) has ground to a halt, with MS ignoring entering the water, and Sony executives publicly stating they are not happy with the opportunity and looking at Christmas penetration to decide on next step... if any!

    All this and now the news that Google will place a considerable sum into HTC's VR division to look away from PC VR and concentrate on mobileVR opportunities using the new smartphone operation (and Daydream)!

    All this, and major developments/investment in out-of-home VR entertainment (Dreamscape/AMC). And in culmination some major new announcement about business focus and direction from Oculus/FacebookVR in the coming months... wonder what is going to happen?  B)
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • MoeCappMoeCapp Posts: 115
    Art3mis
    If I have any reason to buy a Windows MR headset, which I haven't yet caught wind of any compelling software reason to, nor am I expecting anything really, it will be this one because of the built in audio. None of the other Windows MR models have built in headphones, and an HMD without it is a huge hassle.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
    As stated I have reservations - and already we are seeing "limits" placed on the flexibility of these head-mounts compared to the straight PC alternatives - but I too agree if forced down a WinMR route these look the better options.
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • RorschachPhoenixRorschachPhoenix Posts: 1,594 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:

    More info on the Odyssey

    $500 price point (with motion controllers included) and a November 6th release date. 

    SPECS:

    • Resolution: 2880 x 1600

    • Display: OLED

    • Refresh rate: Up to 90Hz

    • Field of view: Up to 110˚

    • Headphones and dual array mics


    From all "coming soon" HMDs Odyssey is the one with the best specs. And please... don't mention Pimax - this thing is barely a prototype.
    Excuse my bad english. I speak to you through the google translator. :P
  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,407 Volunteer Moderator
    It's interesting that every MR headset is almost identical except for outer shell, but Samsung boosted most of the specs.
    According to Road To VR, leaked pics (accidentally released early on microsoft's own store) show that it's also the only one of that family that has hardware IPD adjustment.
    https://www.roadtovr.com/samsung-odyssey-specs-price-release-date-windows-mixed-reality-vr-headset/?platform=hootsuite

    One downside: greater FOV but same horizontal res means lower pixels per degree than the others.

    Now the real question: have they done anything to improve the tracking? :)

  • RoasterRoaster Posts: 1,053
    3Jane
    What's the comparison to Oculus PPD horizontal? If it's at least the same it will be acceptable, as sde doesn't bother me now.
    I want wider FOV. And less lens glare. And focus ability.
    i7-5820K @ 4.2Ghz, water cooled, Asus X99-Pro USB 3.1, 48 Gb DDR4 2400, Samsung 950 pro M.2 SSD, GTX 980 Ti SC, 750w psu
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,071 Valuable Player
    edited October 2017
    For the Sammy Odyssey

    $83.33/mo
    No Interest if Paid in Full
    Within 6 monthsø

    That's pretty awesome actually.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,071 Valuable Player
    I probably would if it was available in uk.But will wait for some reviews first.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • RoasterRoaster Posts: 1,053
    3Jane
    Atmos73 said:
    I think the Samsung is actually 1440x1600 per eye.
    Have they given any info on lens type?
    This is sounding pretty good, if they can deliver anywhere close to 90° real-life as-you-perceive-it fov.
    By the time Oculus does anything this will have been out for almost two years?
    i7-5820K @ 4.2Ghz, water cooled, Asus X99-Pro USB 3.1, 48 Gb DDR4 2400, Samsung 950 pro M.2 SSD, GTX 980 Ti SC, 750w psu
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,483 Valuable Player
    It won't be any good unless they fix the shite tracking tbh. It's looking like the best of the bunch so far but if you're going to spend 500 notes on a VR headset then you might as well get a Rift. Better tracking, better motion controls.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,407 Volunteer Moderator
    Just a little reminder for everybody of the flaws of the MR headsets' tracking (as mentioned on the microsoft developer page for them):
    - doesn't like the dark. You need good lighting.
    - doesn't like movement in the environment. Too many people walking around will confuse it.
    - doesn't like plain environments. There's no depth sensor, so looking at a bare white wall with no sharp detail means it can't track.
    - doesn't like duplicate features. They mention things like having the same poster on the wall twice can confuse it.
    - can't track your hands when you aren't looking at them.
    I haven't tried one myself to see how severe or minor these are.

    Here's some details: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/coordinate_systems

    I can't remember but I assume the headset and controllers have IMUs, so tracking can continue a little bit, but that typically only works well for a second or so, too much accumulated error. I would assume that it would also get confused if you waved your hands around in front of your face, since it wouldn't be able to see the environment.

    Light house / constellation have annoyances, but the tracking is more robust.

    The only real advantage I see to these would be for backpack large scale VR. CV1 needs the pc to connect to the cameras, so no backpack laptop. Vive could do it, but limited to room scale. The MR ones can go much further. But world scale has a problem, drift can occur. Microsoft say only a 5m area can be covered reliably (room scale), after that position tracking can drift as you move around. So with a backpack MR system you could wander 20m and it would know that, but when you try to go back to your starting point you might be off by a bit. That makes pure VR world scale dangerous (AR is ok). You can use spatial anchors to try to identify locations, but apparently the location of spatial anchors relative to each other can drift too.

    I'd be interested in trying one here at work (got a loading dock and a huge film studio with plenty of space), but not for home use.


  • DantacDantac Posts: 39
    Brain Burst
    Looks blumming nice, i have to say.

    These are all tethered aren't they?  Bit of a cop-out not showing a great big cable dangling from it - and that goes for all those before it too.
    I prefer tethered.. i just dont even want to think about putting a wifi device right next to my brain. You probably don't realize how harmful that is. 

  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,407 Volunteer Moderator
    From the Samsung store page...
    It's fresnel lenses.
    It needs HDMI 2.0 (the other MR headsets need HDMI 1.4).
    It has an IPD sensor. They don't say what this is though. Is it something to detect your IPD, or is it just CV1 style detection of the current headset IPD. I'd guess the latter.
    They say it has "Array MICs" and "2 MIC support Cortana". Now there's not much point to multiple internal mics since your mouth can't move relative to the headset (so no stereo). Maybe it has one inside and one outside, so it can do ambient noise cancellation and only get your voice.
    The IPD range is a little smaller: 60-72mm (the CV1 is 58-72mm).


  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,483 Valuable Player
    Dantac said:
    Looks blumming nice, i have to say.

    These are all tethered aren't they?  Bit of a cop-out not showing a great big cable dangling from it - and that goes for all those before it too.
    I prefer tethered.. i just dont even want to think about putting a wifi device right next to my brain. You probably don't realize how harmful that is. 


    I'm not too worried about the wifi device itself, but what with the amount of batteries in electronic goods that keep on exploding I'd be VERY worried about sticking one of those things near my brain box.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
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