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The Pimax 8K MEGA Thread - First Reviews Now live

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  • RoasterRoaster Posts: 1,053
    3Jane
    This is true, PiMax may be trying too much too soon, which is why I'm waiting for the reviews before sending the cash. I retired recently and the bux ain't rollin in like they used to.
    i7-5820K @ 4.2Ghz, water cooled, Asus X99-Pro USB 3.1, 48 Gb DDR4 2400, Samsung 950 pro M.2 SSD, GTX 980 Ti SC, 750w psu
  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 873
    Trinity
    edited November 2017
    pimax 8k video seen by a camera looking through the lens, ignore the strobing its the recording camera:





    Just to watch video if it didn't make me sick because of the flicker then I would want one! Looks sweet.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,879 Valuable Player
    edited November 2017
    Phil007 said:
    The 8K i see using upscaling from 4k res for 99% of people for the next 2years. This is a shame, as i think the better overall experience for the users will be using a native 4k screen.
    I've seens upscaling first hand, I can't really say it's better than native, but it is workable long as the pixels are in good scaling from the base pixels. For example, 1080 to 4k doesn't really look that bad off really. You do lose some detail and things do look a bit softer, but overall it's still worth the jump/use if it you ask me for the higher res in this case. VR surfers more from the lack of pixel distant than it does the detail of that resolution.

    I don't really fault Pimax using this idea and so far the results are people can't see the different 100% either because the res is still too low for that golden 16k per eye that we need. Comparing it to native - like the Pimax X will show a difference, but overall - I think it might be worth taking the risk in this case and having the higher resolution jump for them or vr as a whole until we can really hit that gold number for res.

    When we can hit true 4k natively at 90hzs, I will hope to see 8k upscaling to help push the technology forward that much more. Even though Pimax will claim it to be 16k:) it will be a pretty sick jump from what we see today for sure. The bigger question will come in the form of if we can see that in OLED vs just LCD. LCD is kind of hitting the limits of how fast they can refresh before smearing the image pretty bad. The higher the res, the worst it gets over the distance from the screen to the eye.

    Truth be told here, the res isn't what is killing the performance number on Pimax - it is the FOV. Back in the day, Oculus did want to go higher FOV, but they found that even 30 degrees of extra FOV was adding 20-25% overhead in performance hit because they had to 1) increase the amount of pixels that was drawn and 2) some of those pixels were not even shown unless ATW kick in. Remember, Pimax is only requesting a 1080/base pixel resolution then upscaling it, so they shouldn't be having any issues with hitting the target 4k @90hzs unless there is an issue with the screen, cable bandwidth, or their upscaler. They use BW - so that should overcome the cable bandwidth issue. That leaves the screen or upscaler problems. From what it sounds - it's the upscaler maybe having problems keeping up with, but that doesn't explain why they are having such a high need for GPU resources unless you count in that fact that the FOV is adding extra overhead in the process. Even then, having a increase in FOV means more things to draw and more the GPU has to work to include that information. The jump from 110 to 200 is a pretty scary jump and why so many people are saying they are crazy to do so. Not that it isn't impossible, but more than it's almost a waste of resources in doing so.
  • Phil007Phil007 Posts: 56
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited November 2017
    I was saying about the 4k screen in terms of not even being ready for that yet. 1080ti is just about a 4k60 card, we need another 50% for it to be 4k90. So, in terms of growth i am allowing for scaling to a large degree. Personally i would be happy with this. Play my older games at crisp 4k90, use upscaling for newer titles. Then in a year or two, i will be able to play most games at 4k90 (similar to now with 1080ti on rift). Then the next jump to 2x4k screens will be a 100% jump, with gpu's following the same trends of the last decade taking a good 4-5yrs to catch up. In GPU market, we have seen instances such as 4k monitors that needed far more gpu grunt then was available at the time of release. These did not speed up the progression of GPU's. 

    I am one of those people who are very sensitive to scaling. I agree that 1080 - 4k doesn't look as bad as others because of the linear scale, but it is still very noticeable to me and obvious without looking for it. I'm guessing if its obvious to me at the ppd of my monitor or tv, then it will be even more obvious at the relatively low ppd of the headset. Even with the scaling it will look superior to the current gen (thats why people are saying the upscaling looks great).

    I also keep forgetting to say that i am looking at this from a purely gaming perspective. 4k-8k-16k will all be great upgrades that will be a lot easier to achieve for vr desktop use. But personally, i dont think i would even use it much for reading and browsing etc as i prefer to use my monitor in real life.

    I am all for pushing forwards, and it's great to have competition. I am really sure the visuals in these headsets will be better than the current gen. But i am holding out, during the months before 8k x. Maybe there will be announcements of other headsets more suited to my preferences. I definitely want a new headset within a year. I want the pimax to be great, its about 6 months away during which i think we will hear about other headsets coming. 

    The 5k is more inline with what i think will give the overall better gaming experience for the next 1-2years. But i stepped back from it as i want more ppd upgrade. If it was 150-160 fov with higher ppd, i would've gambled (still other concerns such as software). In this case it's funny that i would have potentially backed a lower spec headset.

    I guess my whole point is the 8k x is a step too far. Pushing forwards is great, i am 100000% for that. I am a tech head, need the latest and greatest. But sometimes pushing to far to quick can be a detriment. VR is still in it's infancy, lot's of outsiders don't really understand the need for high fps etc. Many when they finally jump in, will see 8k x pimax adverts etc, buy it then give vr a bad reputation because as "amazing" as it is they feel nausea etc... Stretching but maybe similar to 3d vision. Pushed into homes far to early, when LCD is clearly not fast enough. People bought in, gave 3d vision a bad rep for the ghosting etc. But use it on an OLED, my friends say that is not the 3d vision they remember, they would still be using it today.

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,520 Valuable Player
    edited November 2017
    Mradr said:
    1080 to 4k doesn't really look that bad off really. You do lose some detail and things do look a bit softer

    That isn't a very good selling point. You're basically suggesting that as long as people remove any sense of standards and expectations of quality, then... it's really not that bad. Well, we can say that for pretty much any extreme, yes?

    Walking everywhere instead of driving isn't that bad off really. As long as you have some water available so you don't pass out, wear the right shoes, and never have to be anywhere on time then it's worth the exercise.

    Here's a good read on Upscaling vs Native, with an example image provided:
    http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/upscaled-1080P-vs-4K

    "Upscaling is therefore a stopgap measure in the absence of true 4K"

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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,879 Valuable Player
    edited November 2017
    Zenbane said:
    Mradr said:
    1080 to 4k doesn't really look that bad off really. You do lose some detail and things do look a bit softer

    That isn't a very good selling point. You're basically suggesting that as long as people remove any sense of standards and expectations of quality, then... it's really not that bad. Well, we can say that for pretty much any extreme, yes?

    Walking everywhere instead of driving isn't that bad off really. As long as you have some water available so you don't pass out, wear the right shoes, and never have to be anywhere on time then it's worth the exercise.

    Here's a good read on Upscaling vs Native, with an example image provided:
    http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/upscaled-1080P-vs-4K

    "Upscaling is therefore a stopgap measure in the absence of true 4K"

    I read that, but that website isn't a good example of it either. I used to walk every where instead of driving. When I want to grab something local just down the street I would rather walk than drive. For one I don't have to worry about hitting something and having to pay more money to have it fix, and then come home sad with a cop behind me either:)) 

    Sure you can put any words anywhere you like. I mean that is what English is good about :)))

    But my point still holds, VR still lacks the pixels per degree that having a higher res > than a lower native res. Once we can hit true 4k on raw performance then it'll be even better, but till then it's not as bad as that website made it out to be. Did you not look at the linus video I put on before?

    I mean it was only ONE page back:))

    As you can see upscaling is really is not that bad. I even did try it on another VR unit in the past and really I mean it's softer than real 4k. I am not saying it's better - but it's worth the trade off of what you are getting in terms of better visual quality and less screen door effect. Sure it's not as detail and I agree it's not for everyone I guess, but it's still worth it until we hit around real 8k and we hit a higher per pixel to degree that matters. 

    Who says it has to be a selling point in itself? Anything that has a selling point usually has a drawback for that selling point:) Your car is giving off gases, it burn up your money to drive it, and puts more wear and tear on it sooner than if you would've walk down the street for that milk.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,520 Valuable Player
    edited November 2017
    Mradr said:
     I used to walk every where instead of driving. When I want to grab something local just down the street I would rather walk than drive. For one I don't have to worry about hitting something and having to pay more money to have it fix, and then come home sad with a cop behind me either:)) 


    I used to walk a lot as well. I'm both a good walker and driver so I never really had all the problems you described.  But since we're playing the Theorycraft game... one can have just as many problems walking as they do driving. Sometimes more.  You can get hit, instead of hitting something. It is also easier to get robbed, mugged, and murdered while walking around town as opposed to driving. You can pay more money due to hospital bills. And you can come home injured with an ambulance behind you.

    But hey to each it's own. If your point is that the Pimax 8K is the proverbial "walking" in a world of driving, then yes sir, I agree with you.


    Mradr said:

    But my point still holds, VR still lacks the pixels per degree that having a higher res > than a lower native res. Once we can hit true 4k on raw performance then it'll be even better, but till then it's not as bad as that website made it out to be. 

    The phrase "not that bad" is very subject. I believe considering the cost (over 4 million dollars) to develop plus the predicted price of the product itself ($500 for the HMD, $300 for the controller)... then yes, it is very very bad. Maybe if it were $200-$300 total then sure you'd have a point about it being "not that bad." But right now we are talking about a high-end product that is implementing low-end technology. And make no mistake, upscaling is the low-end of graphics quality in a world of native resolution.

    My previous point still holds: It is not that bad as long as any expectations of quality are abandoned.


    Mradr said:
    Who says it has to be a selling point in itself? Anything that has a selling point usually has a drawback for that selling point

    Yet you're here trying to "sell" upscaling as "not that bad" lol
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,879 Valuable Player
    edited November 2017
    Zenbane said:
    Mradr said:
     I used to walk every where instead of driving. When I want to grab something local just down the street I would rather walk than drive. For one I don't have to worry about hitting something and having to pay more money to have it fix, and then come home sad with a cop behind me either:)) 


    I used to walk a lot as well. I'm both a good walker and driver so I never really had all the problems you described.  But since we're playing the Theorycraft game... one can have just as many problems walking as they do driving. Sometimes more.  You can get hit, instead of hitting something. It is also easier to get robbed, mugged, and murdered while walking around town as opposed to driving. You can pay more money due to hospital bills. And you can come home injured with an ambulance behind you.

    But hey to each it's own. If your point is that the Pimax 8K is the proverbial "walking" in a world of driving, then yes sir, I agree with you.


    Mradr said:

    But my point still holds, VR still lacks the pixels per degree that having a higher res > than a lower native res. Once we can hit true 4k on raw performance then it'll be even better, but till then it's not as bad as that website made it out to be. 

    The phrase "not that bad" is very subject. I believe considering the cost (over 4 million dollars) to develop plus the predicted price of the product itself ($500 for the HMD, $300 for the controller)... then yes, it is very very bad. Maybe if it were $200-$300 total then sure you'd have a point about it being "not that bad." But right now we are talking about a high-end product that is implementing low-end technology. And make no mistake, upscaling is the low-end of graphics quality in a world of native resolution.

    My previous point still holds: It is not that bad as long as any expectations of quality are abandoned.


    Mradr said:
    Who says it has to be a selling point in itself? Anything that has a selling point usually has a drawback for that selling point

    Yet you're here trying to "sell" upscaling as "not that bad" lol
    Na, theorycrafting is if I am saying "if they hit that res" but they are hitting the res requirements already. The problem is in the refresh of the device it self that is the known problem right now along with the FOV (many other things, but I already talk about those). They are also not making anything new for that headset that a Gen2 should have. More or less it's a 1.5 gen release if you ask me than a real gen 2, but we already know what I want to see in a Gen2 headset. I made that point across a few pages now:) Even you like the ideas.

    I am focusing on that one part right now. So yes, 4k fake res > native 1k res hands down. Anyone that has tried the Pimax agrees it's still better than current gen headsets. We just don't have the pixels per degree to a point they need to be. Now going back to the other post - most of that could even be better on the PM if they really went with a lower FOV and allow the pixels per degree be even higher.

    "not that bad" is subjective, but only in the eyes of the beholder to a level of what is comparing to. When comparing it to 1k native res - then yes, 4k upscale is better. It allows more pixels per degree and looks better for the resolution. Now if we're comparing 4k vs native 4k - then agree - it's not better. But that website is a super bad example of that if you ask me. I mean look at the video and get a hands on what a good upscaler can do. Witch I already and you are agree too as well, so I am bit confused on your point just a bit here on why you keep repeating yourself?

    Well they made 4m doesn't mean it cost them 4m to make. Along with this subject, I already talk about it as well. They are kind of a failing company of a niche market that will not be able to compete with Oculus toe to toe in software, but they are offering something that will be on the market, so we have to still understand what they are doing and learn as much to make a better product in the future. I kind of joke about this and said they are my guinea pigs if a upscaler would work well in this. The fact people did bid into the product (facebooker haters or not) it's still something that people are interested in and something that needs to be figured out in some cases. Sure, OCulus is still the better product because of price and software - but the raw numbers will say something else and most people only understand raw numbers. Just because I can buy a 400$ computer that has 8GB of ram and 1 TB HDD doesn't mean it's a better value than a 800$ computer with 8GB of RM and 512 SSD. Most people will only see the numbers and buy the 400$ model because of price alone with some confused by the other numbers and see 1TB > than 512 SSD even though the SSD is still a better value to have and that ram is 4x faster than the 400$ model.

    But we don't have native res 4k at 90Hz right now. As I said before, once we hit 4k native I will want to see a 8k upscale version because right now the quality of that pixel per degree would be better than native res right now in terms of real value of better visual and screen door effect.  In 2018, we will have a GPU that should be able or un 4k at 90hz for sure. The nv Titan will/should(?) have enough power to run at that level and the way I talk will start to change then to we need to have native 4k or the ability to turn on or off the upscaler option. Then again - why not give the option for a 8k upscale option around then as well? Cost? Who cares - you just offer it in low numbers - the cost will come down over time and you learn a lot about the product over time so that when you do release the next gen headset - it will be more fit to that level of hardware/performance. More or less it's a Dev HMD than a customer version, but then again - it gives Devs that much of a heads up of what they should be aiming for.

    Should that be part of a high end product? I am not sure. I know the mid range should for sure. It makes sense here. It allows that much more hardware to run the product that results in more people into VR. As for high end - if you already pushing the limits and then using upscaling to make the differences - it does scream we are jumping a bit too far, but if you are targeting high end anyways - what differences does it make in the first place?

    Now if we're talking about cost to keep it lower - then having a upscaler in the device will just increase the cost of having to have one built in. This is where a upscaler for the mid range would still value having it as it wont have to jump that high up in res and they can keep the cost of that upscale in check. Where at the higher end - having it on board just means that much more you are paying for. Granted at that point you just have to question to yourself is having a higher res better than the cost at that point. There are other cost to having that as well such as the screens and the cable bandwidth that will also need to increase quality to handle that raw performance required to run higher end stuff. That is just a known fact to have anything - the better it is the more cost it comes with it, so really - it comes down to where and when do you stop and say "good enough" or "not that bad".

    So upscaling can fix at least 3 of those problems in one shot with a little extra cost (not having to have a cable that has to handle 4k - 8k - 16k of res, cost have a GPU that can even handle that, and higher degree of pixels). Is that good enough to say it's worth having or do you remove that and wait longer until native can play a role in it because native cost more than upscale, but does come down in cost over a given amount of time. So really Time vs Money vs "good enough"
  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,488 Volunteer Moderator
    Upscaling 1080p to 4k could be done with a simple nearest neighbor sample, you'd have the same effective res, no bluring, but with smaller pixels (so probably reduced sde).

    The problem is the Pimax 8K doesn't do a simple 2:1 upscale, it's doing 1440p to 4K. That means it's not an integer multiple, so rows and columns don't evenly map from one res to the other. That causes problems with fine detail that moves around.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,879 Valuable Player
    edited November 2017
    kojack said:
    Upscaling 1080p to 4k could be done with a simple nearest neighbor sample, you'd have the same effective res, no bluring, but with smaller pixels (so probably reduced sde).

    The problem is the Pimax 8K doesn't do a simple 2:1 upscale, it's doing 1440p to 4K. That means it's not an integer multiple, so rows and columns don't evenly map from one res to the other. That causes problems with fine detail that moves around.
    I wasn't sure on their native res they were aiming for - but even at that res - it doesn't explain the overhead they're seeing right now. I am 100% sure it's the FOV. I have no proof other wise I spit out some numbers in math - but once you remove all that is kown - what is left unknow must be the truth. That is - FOV is costing more overhead than they really want it to.

    That is silly - scaling should always be 2:1 if they are aiming for a good product unless they are doing something extra with the offset pixels?
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,879 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    Last I read they’re rendering 4k upscaling to 8k.

    No, they are upscaling the two images. Yes in total they have a value 2x of the image, but it's half of what they are saying this is why Zenbane and I hates their math. It's plan stupid and misleading on their page.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,879 Valuable Player
    edited November 2017
    Atmos73 said:
    The fact remains they’re rendering 4k and upscaling to 8k which is a ratio of 2:1.
    No, upscaling 2x 2k images to 2x 4k is not the same as 2x 4k image to 2x 8k images... not the same at all... I mean if they could do that - then why the hell not just do native 4k by 4k instead... that be pointless to run a upscaler LOL xD


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,520 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    Anyone that has tried the Pimax agrees it's still better than current gen headsets. 

    Not the stuff I've quoted from folks like Test.com

    But that's the whole point: Everyone is Theorycrafting based on things we read and hear from secondary sources. Just look at that videos shared in this post:
    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/comment/567792/#Comment_567792


    Videos attempting to showcase the Pimax' abilities are low budget and low-quality snippets made by obscure no-name amateurs. 

    This Megathread is 22 pages of theorycrafting... from false notions than "2+x=2x," right down to denying that upscaling  resolution yields a noticeable difference when compared to native resolution.

    Regardless of who may be right/wrong about the Math and Visual Specifications, the biggest issue is that this HMD fosters debates over legitimacy instead of promoting discussion about innovation. All this is only made worse by the fact that so many Pimaxers (trademarked) validate their product based on the idea that it could be better than the Rift. It's a hilarious notion considering the other competitors on the market: Windows Mixed Reality, HTC Vive, and Sony's PSVR. Yet the Rift remains the point of contention for this not-available-in-stores piece of Hardware.

    Upscaling to 4K and then doubling that Specification to call it 8K simply because the 4K upscaling is on 2 screens is probably the biggest Technology Ruse I've seen since Google Glass.

    I mean hell... we have Mace404 who supports the Pimax 8K based on the notion that "8K is just a marketing term and shouldn't be taken literally," while Atmos is here arguing that it really is most literally presenting 8K resolution. Because that's what this product is all about: Obtaining Kickstarter funds through confusion, delusion, and obfuscation. 

    I still like your posts though, Mradr.
     :) 
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,520 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    The fact remains they’re rendering 4k and upscaling to 8k which is a ratio of 2:1.

    Did you see that @Mace404 - a Pimax Kickstarter Backer just proved that the term "8K" is NOT just a marketing term. Backers really believe that it is 8K. I told ya so!

    In related news,

    I saw this thread recently where folks of Wrestling were sharing hilarious GIF's of some famous "over-sellers" in the industry. It reminded me so much of the Pimax marketing campaign and the posts made by Pimaxers. Here are a few of those GIF's that I believe portray the Pimax 8K marketing campaign quite well:

    Over-selling at its finest














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    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • RoasterRoaster Posts: 1,053
    3Jane
    2+2 = 2*2
    i7-5820K @ 4.2Ghz, water cooled, Asus X99-Pro USB 3.1, 48 Gb DDR4 2400, Samsung 950 pro M.2 SSD, GTX 980 Ti SC, 750w psu
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,520 Valuable Player
    edited November 2017
    Roaster said:
    2+2 = 2*2

     2+3 <> 2*3

    You don't seem to understand how Math Formulas work:
    2+x = 2x <-- This must be validated in all cases, not just the simply ones that you manage to fumble through.
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  • RoasterRoaster Posts: 1,053
    3Jane
    I don't understand?
    2+2 = 2 x 2 is true, and all the bluster and arrogance you can muster will not change that.
    Have you no pride?
    i7-5820K @ 4.2Ghz, water cooled, Asus X99-Pro USB 3.1, 48 Gb DDR4 2400, Samsung 950 pro M.2 SSD, GTX 980 Ti SC, 750w psu
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,520 Valuable Player
    edited November 2017
    Roaster said:
    I don't understand?
    2+2 = 2 x 2 is true, and all the bluster and arrogance you can muster will not change that.
    Have you no pride?

    I get that you can't count beyond the Number 2, however...

    We're talking about the Pimax 8K piece of hardware, thus:
    2+4K <> 2*4K

     Have you no education? Home schooled only?
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,879 Valuable Player
    edited November 2017
    Zenbane said:
    Mradr said:
    Anyone that has tried the Pimax agrees it's still better than current gen headsets. 

    Not the stuff I've quoted from folks like Test.com

    Upscaling to 4K and then doubling that Specification to call it 8K simply because the 4K upscaling is on 2 screens is probably the biggest Technology Ruse I've seen since Google Glass.

    I mean hell... we have Mace404 who supports the Pimax 8K based on the notion that "8K is just a marketing term and shouldn't be taken literally," while Atmos is here arguing that it really is most literally presenting 8K resolution. Because that's what this product is all about: Obtaining Kickstarter funds through confusion, delusion, and obfuscation. 

    I still like your posts though, Mradr.
     :) 
    Sorry I mean only the res is better in the Pimax (even tested and Linux agree that the res is a big jump and "better"). The ONLY thing I am interested in the Pimax is that upscaler and if it can really pull off the same effect off of let's say that cable can do. If it can - I can't see why over all we can't go that direction in the future. I understand the different in native and fake - but my point is that if we can do native - then let's push it further with a cable upgrade like Linux covered to have that much more over native alone for res running at 2:1 scaling. It make sense until we can hit at least native 8k.

    Agree with the rest... 
  • RoasterRoaster Posts: 1,053
    3Jane
    Zenbane said:
    Roaster said:
    I don't understand?
    2+2 = 2 x 2 is true, and all the bluster and arrogance you can muster will not change that.
    Have you no pride?

    I get that you can't count beyond the Number 2, however...

    We're talking about the Pimax 8K piece of hardware, thus:
    2+4K <> 2*4K

     Have you no education? Home schooled only?
    Look ... dude ... there are no equations beside 1=1 that are valid for all variables.
    Most simple equations have one solution. In your case the solution is 2.
    Stop with the insults and act like a man.
    i7-5820K @ 4.2Ghz, water cooled, Asus X99-Pro USB 3.1, 48 Gb DDR4 2400, Samsung 950 pro M.2 SSD, GTX 980 Ti SC, 750w psu
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,520 Valuable Player
    Roaster said:
    Look ... dude ... there are no equations beside 1=1 that are valid for all variables.
    Most simple equations have one solution. In your case the solution is 2.
    Stop with the insults and act like a man.

    You opened up the line of insults when you tried calling me ignorant; so stop whining like a baby if you can't take a bit back of the thing you initiate. Don't "act" like a man... "be" a man. Try to be less of a hypocrite too.

    2+4K <> 2*4K

    If you wanna spam this thread with all that 1=1 and personal insults garbage, then be my guest. You aren't really good at much else.
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,879 Valuable Player
    edited November 2017
    Atmos73 said:
    How does rendering 4k total for two eyes then upscaling to 8k equal rendering native 8k?

    Rendering 4k - 4096x2657= 21MP upscaled to 8k 
    Rendering 8k - 8192x5314= 42MP native

    I don’t know where the confusion is here.
    Because each screen is limited to 4k - so they are upscaling from 2k to 4k per image sent. This gives a off set of the image and not a true 2:1. Also, it's left or right side that gets a blank screen. Over all - it's only sending a single 4k image and using refresh rates to give them time to draw the next image for the other eye. That is what BW is. Pimax's 8k  = 2x4k images, the images are 2k upscale to 4k that are sent only one at a time.

    If you can pull off 2x4k images at the same time - then why the fuck are you upscaling?  That would make no sense. You are better off benefiting off the image quality than raw pixels count which is what I was talk about before with native vs fake. IF you can already run at native - then upscaling makes no sense at all, but if you are aiming for something that requires more than what we can do "today" then upscaling is the way to go for the raw pixel count (aka for example using real 2x 8k screen by sending only 2x 4k images that are each upscale for each eye).

    Both of these are what Pimax are using - but none of them really produce a full 8k per eye solution. They produce a 4k image per eye from the upscale image. It's not the same as producing 2x 4k images and upscaling to 2x8k images when you are just upscaling from 2k to 4k per image and calling each scale 2+2 = 8 no it makes 2+2 = 4. To put simple - Pimax's 8k is not real and really is 4k by 4k. I understand why they are calling it 8k -but understanding and really what is happening is not the same thing. Mace404 explain this as well and why Zenbane doesn't like their math and neither do I... 



    This means the overhead you are seeing it not from the res - but something else like the FOV and I am sure it's adding quite a bit of overhead having to draw more objects that also need more sharder work done and more lighting that has to be calculated. Don't believe me? Then explain why people are getting almost 2.0 in SS off todays cards?


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,520 Valuable Player
    /yawn

    Pimax 8K has 4K resolution, from their own site:




    All their quotes about "upscaling to 8K" involve abusing the fact that the image is on 2 screens. But it is still 4K.

    http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/pimax-8k-vr-frequent-asked-questions/2958
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  • stateofstaticstateofstatic Posts: 13
    NerveGear
    Have the rift on a nice rig, SS 1.6x at a steady 90...tried V3 of Pimax 8K in Vegas.

    Bottom line: resolution is greatly improved in comparison, especially with small text and far details.  At this rez there is no need for AA IMO.  The wide FOV really does make you feel IN the environment as opposed to wearing diving goggles. Mild warping at the edges, very minimal god rays even with glasses, screen not at bright as Rift but you'd only notice if you A/B'd the two.  IF they can do eye tracking well (big if), and provide SDK to make foviated rendering easy for devs to patch into existing titles to lower hardware requirements, the 8k WILL be the reference standard for VR till the big boys step up to match it. The end.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,520 Valuable Player
    edited November 2017

    ... so after 4 million in kickstarter fundraising efforts, Version 3 of the Pimax 8K VR HMD still has image warping and god rays. The end?
     ;) 
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  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,488 Volunteer Moderator
    To quote Xunshu from Pimax on the Pimax forum:
    What is the input of Pimax 8K?
    2560*1440 per eye, upscale to 3840*2160 per eye.



  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,879 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    Mradr said:
    Because each screen is limited to 4k - so they are upscaling from 2k to 4k per image sent. This gives a off set of the image and not a true 2:1. Also, it's left or right side that gets a blank screen. Over all - it's only sending a single 4k image and using refresh rates to give them time to draw the next image for the other eye. That is what BW is. Pimax's 8k  = 2x4k images, the images are 2k upscale to 4k that are sent only one at a time.  


    You’re talking about Brain Warp which has nothing yo do with resolution and hasn’t been implemented yet. Non of the demos so far used Brain Warp. Brain Warp is used to double FPS for computers that struggle to max out the native refresh rate.
    No I was talking about both .... re-read budy
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,520 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    Yeah a 2k image upscaled to a 4k panel 
     or 4k upscaled to fill 2 4k panels.

    The important bit is the Render value v upscale value which in Pimax 8k case is 4k render to 8k horizontal = 2:1.

    I get their marketing campaign, but the important thing to note is that the HMD is only 4K resolution. As kojack quoted:

    What is the input of Pimax 8K?
    2560*1440 per eye, upscale to 3840*2160 per eye.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,520 Valuable Player

    This is from the Pimax FAQ as well:



    Resolution = 4K
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,520 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    So we all agree it’s 4k upscaled to 2*3840x2160 

    4K = 3840 × 2160

    The 2 lenses display the exact same 4K image.
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