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Fallout 4 VR is Here. Free locomotion is an option

MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,927 Valuable Player
It’s still uncertain how Bethesda is going to handle Rift support, if the recent release of the company’s latest title Doom VFR tells us anything, Rift support will likely be available despite no mention by the company—something you can chalk up to bad blood over the $4 billion intellectual property dispute involving Bethesda’s parent company ZeniMax and Oculus’ parent company Facebook.





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Comments

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,375 Valuable Player
    Fallout 4 VR is gonna have a hard time being talked about without the phrase "Doom VFR" showing up. I hope it does better than that terrible Doom release.

    Are you gonna play it, MowTin?
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,927 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    Fallout 4 VR is gonna have a hard time being talked about without the phrase "Doom VFR" showing up. I hope it does better than that terrible Doom release.

    Are you gonna play it, MowTin?
    Well, I'm going away on vacation this weeks so it may be a couple of weeks before I do. 
    But Fallout series are my favorite games. Fallout 4 is my favorite in the series. The idea of being IN Fallout 4 is a dream come true. So, yeah, I'm going to play it. 

    It would have to be incredibly broken for me not to like it. So, I'm totally biased. 

    I can't wait to put on my power armor, explore the Green Sea, join the Brotherhood, take cover from radiation storms and build my settlements. 

    I've only played one playthrough so there's just so much new stuff for me to do. I only wish they included the DLC. 
    i7 9700k 2080ti   CV1, Rift-S, Index
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,537 Valuable Player
    What would be great is if they allow people to mod the VR.
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 810
    3Jane
    edited December 2017
    So, anyone rolled the dice and tried it yet? I looked at steam reviews and did see a review claiming it worked with the Rift and a few others saying the touch controllers didn't work. All reviews comment on how blurry it is and how the player is a midget, which is a little odd.
  • KenSniperKenSniper Posts: 192
    Art3mis
    What would be great is if they allow people to mod the VR.
    there's a thread where someone was able to simply carry over the mod and even DLC files from the original game straight into the FO4VR and it works, he even had a screenhot of him and his lightsaber mod swinging
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 810
    3Jane
    Yeah I heard modding it isn't a problem.
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,960 Volunteer Moderator
    I spent a few hours playing it this evening. It works fine on the Rift, but the control scheme is lousy.

    You MUST be on the latest Nvidia driver (388.59). I had updated my driver earlier, then I got the Windows Fall Creator's Update this evening and it rolled me back to 388.43. My game kept crashing as soon as I got control of my character until I figured out that I had to update the driver again. Also, you must opt out of the SteamVR beta stream, or the keyboard won't work when you get to the part where you choose your character's name.

    Performance is okay, but I can constantly see objects pop in and out at the edge of my vision, which is a little annoying. Height was fine for me, so if people are having issues, they likely need to do the VR setup in SteamVR.

    I've been using "direct" locomotion instead of teleporting, and I found it comfortable enough. It seems like you have to choose either/or, you can't have both on at the same time (although I did get a teleporting tutorial tip pop up as I was walking down to Sanctuary, so maybe I've missed something). There are setting to adjust your movement speed, your turning increments, and you can choose between snap turning or "smooth", which is like snap but you see a quick rotation instead of an instant change of angle.

    The control scheme uses clicking in the stick for all interaction (take items, open doors, etc.) and it's really finicky about being in the exact center, which means I stand there clicking and clicking trying to get it to work. I had a poke around in the ini files just now, and it looks like there might be a couple variables that can be tweaked to loosen up the definition of 'center'. (I'll try messing with them tomorrow, it's getting pretty late tonight.) That would help with some of the issues, but scrolling in menus is another problem, since it wants you to swipe the touch pad, and it's not easy to replicate the required input with the stick in cases where it would take multiple swipes to get though a list. It may be possible to adjust the swipe speed in the ini files to help deal with this.

    It really needs a complete remap of the controls. I know there is a user-made input emulator for SteamVR, so I might have a go at that and see how easily I can set something up. I think it won't be possible to fix the controls with input emulation though, since so many different actions rely on moving and clicking the sticks. It will probably require modifying the game's button bindings, which means that we will need a version of F4SE (that's what I needed to use to fix the 2D game's wonky hard-coded key bindings).
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,375 Valuable Player

    This game, much like Doom VFR, seems to be making waves in the VR World... as being a big hot mess.

    The player is stuck in the wall during the character creation scene?



    A reddit thread for the Vive:
    Honestly this has got to be the ugliest VR game I have played, and I have owned this Vive since launch day. It looks like it is running in an extremely low resolution.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/7j6u06/fallout_4_vr_looks_absolutely_horrid_no/


    A Rift review from Facebook's VR group:

    Fallout 4 VR for Oculus Rift is currently a hot pile of Garbage.

    Un-polished, barely functional, low resolution, heavy graphic pop-ins.

    From the very beginning it was obvious.

    The opening cinematics were 2D curved screens suspended in darkness.

    During character creation, you are standing in the mirror, staring at yourself. The character does not respond to your head movements, and you are stuck in the wall - if you turn around, you are in the street.

    By default, teleportation is on, but you enable full locomotion. The default settings for full locomotion provides a "vignette" around the screen whenever you move, creating a tiny circle of visibility in the middle. You can turn this off. Afterwards, full locomotion is fine. You can sprint and jump.

    The game does not give you hands - only in rare circumstances - but they are fixed as fists.
    You run around with a pip-boy on your left wrist, hovering in the air, attached to no hand.

    To grab things, you move your controller close to the object and press in on the thumbstick. If you do this correctly, the object will be "picked up", just hovering in the air, held by nothing.

    You cannot increase the graphics - no supersampling, no increasing resolution. The graphics are very dated.

    Most importantly - the game is barely playable with the Oculus Rift Touch controls. Most options were intended for the touchpad, and the stick naturally resets to the center position, so if you try to select anything, the selection moves back to the previous position immediately.

    It is incredibly hard to equip weapons or armor. Incredibly hard to pick up anything and place it into your inventory.

    You have to walk up to something, press in on the thumbstick, move your hand closer to the item, release the thumbstick once close enough and you should get the item. Sort of like picking up weapons in Halo 1. Hold the button and then walk over the item, but much more direct and irritating. Either way - you do not actually interact with your hands, it's all simulation, all terrible. I was finally able to set some items to favorite so I could quickly select them during combat, but some items I are unreachable in my inventory. Impossible to navigate the Pip-boy.

    In general, there is a very high level of expectation for VR games. We desire a higher level of interaction than standard 2D games.

    The game itself is ugly, not just technically, but design-wise. It's grey and barren and desolate with nothing to really do.

    If Fallout 4 was made from the ground-up for VR, then every rock on the ground would be able to be picked up, tossed around. You can't even open doors with your hand in this game - you walk up and press a button, then the door opens. Yay.

    Good things -
    It's nice when the NPCs look at you when they talk, even though you walk around.

    Combat is pretty fun/immersive.

    Once the controls are fixed, the game might be playable - but ugly with low immersion due to limited interactivity.



  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,207 Volunteer Moderator
    Thanks for the info @nalex66, I'm away from home for a few days so will have to wait until the weekend to give this a try!
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  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 810
    3Jane
    edited December 2017
    Well I went ahead and got it, here are my thoughts:

    First of all, yes, it works and is playable. So with that out of the way...

    In terms of gameplay, it's fallout 4 in VR. So yeah, if you were expecting something else then you have unreasonable expectations.

    Graphically, it isn't as blurry as people are saying. It certainly isn't the prettiest VR game, but then again 99% of games on Oculus Home meet that same description. Not everything can be Robo Recall or DCS. There are a few graphics options for object draw distance but that's about it, no super sampling slider I could find. I did notice some pop in around the edges of my view but it isn't too bad, I was expecting worse from other reviews. Overall I think the graphics are acceptable, it's about what I'd expect if I hadn't read all those reviews first. Performance was flawless but it really should be on an i7-8700k, GTX 1080 TI, 16GB DDR4 at 3200 MHz and an nvme SSD.

    Movement options are bare bones but do meet minimum VR standards (barely). You can teleport as well as free move with fixed rotation jumps (30, 45, 60, 90 degree at a time). I prefer smooth rotation (as in Dead Effect 2 VR) but that isn't an option. When switching to free move, super tunnel vision is turned on by default, it basically blinds you when moving. But that is a slider, I turned it off completely. The only issue I have with it is movement is tied to where you are pointing your left controller with no apparent option for having it relative to the HMD. This is a bit annoying as where my left hand is pointed often has absolutely nothing to do with anything. On the bright side, the left grip button toggles sneak mode on and off with short presses and your pip boy light with a longer press. So that answers how sneak mode works, which is pretty well imho. I'm happy they implemented it that way.

    As for general controls with the Rift, they could be a lot better. When first loading the game up, I found myself constantly swapping between the xbox and touch controllers. The control assignments in both cases are a bit bizarre but once I figured them out, the xbox controller wasn't needed. I had no issues typing my name in unlike a lot of others.

    Interacting with NPC's and picking up objects is strange but not a problem. Pushing forwards slightly and in on either stick takes the place of the old interact button from the monitor version (e key?). The on screen hints say to just push it straight in but that's bogus, you have to push about 1/4th of the way forwards before pushing the stick in. It isn't at all finicky once you figure it out but it took me a little while since the on screen hints are wrong.

    Gun play and weapons are generally pretty good. Aim is spot on and the right grip button reloads the magazine, very sensible choice imho. Unfortunately pressing the right grip button also drops a grenade if you hold it half a second too long. I had 3 grenades, dropped two of them on my feet and had to run away. :o All weapons are one handed BTW, so no proper two handed weapons as far as I can tell. Didn't have any scoped weapons to try but I hear scopes don't work for anyone, Vive users included. On the bright side, I've never been such a good shot in FO4 before, so much easier with touch than with mouse and keyboard. Might do a pistols only play through, that seems to work well with the Rift and all other VR shooters.

    I saved the real problems for last, and they are all related to inventory controls. Picking crap up maybe easy, but dropping it is a nightmare. It's designed for you to repeatedly swipe your touch pad, which is inconvenient with a touchpad and just awful with thumb sticks. You have to move the stick as far as you can in the desired direction, push it in, move it as far to the opposite side as you can, release and repeat until you eventually reach whatever it is you want. And then it's a mix of thumb stick presses, trigger pulls and thumb stick moves to select the option you want. It's slow, janky and I promise it isn't much better with the Vive's controller. It's fundamentally a bad design on any controller other than a mouse wheel. Maybe they forgot to change it. :p

    Related to that is the favorites menu. I haven't found a reliable way to pull it up. It's some combination of shoving the stick to the side while pressing the button in and slowly releasing it, but normally it either does nothing or it rotates me to the side. Maybe it works better on the Vive/MSVR controllers but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't.

    Overall, not sure I recommend it. If you absolutely must have FO4 in VR, then yeah, get it. It does work and I'm sure with practice it's possible to get reasonably quick with the inventory system. But it certainly isn't intuitive and is more than a little slow at first.

  • DarkTenkaDarkTenka Posts: 1,078
    Wintermute
    edited December 2017
    How are you guys saying this is playable? .. you realise this is an RPG right? .. the moment you need to level up or use your inventory you're straight fucked.

    In-game controls are fine .. you can point/shoot .. hands are correct orientation etc and you can walk about the wilderness just fine. But the moment you need to use a menu (remember this is Fallout) .. it is literally impossible to navigate correctly. You have to press up on both sticks to get to the top .. then hold up on one stick hold down on another .. then let go of one and half push the other .. and then you MIGHT have a chance of landing on the option you wish to use. 

    Also .. why am I knee high to a grass-hopper? .. Seriously - and this is for both vive and oculus - you cant change your height and it uses neither SteamVR nor Oculus's height settings to determine player height. It's just hard set to "Danny Devito".

    Sorry .. no .. DooM VFR was WAY more playable than this (Edit: With the free locomotion mod of course).
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 810
    3Jane
    I wasn't a midget in it, though I do seem to be missing a good 6 inches (6'1" irl). Getting around the inventory is annoying, but it can slowly be done. Leveling up wasn't too hard for me, it's a hell of a lot easier than trying to recover all bottles from the workshop so I can make purified water. :/
  • DarkTenkaDarkTenka Posts: 1,078
    Wintermute
    I wasn't a midget in it, though I do seem to be missing a good 6 inches (6'1" irl). Getting around the inventory is annoying, but it can slowly be done. Leveling up wasn't too hard for me, it's a hell of a lot easier than trying to recover all bottles from the workshop so I can make purified water. :/
    Sigh .. I'll have to stick at it and see if I can figure out it. I do also have the blurryness problem, but I'm only on a GTX980 so I thought this was just going to be unavoidable .. 

    Thing is I cant even look at my inventory/pip boy at all .. the moment I try it gets stuck on the stats page. No matter where I push the stick it wont go to the Inventory. So far I have been unable to equip any armor or weapons apart from the first pistol I found.

    Its so frustrating because its so god damn close ... you can feel the sense of immersion wandering the wastelands ..
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 810
    3Jane
    Oh yeah that took me a minute to figure out. You have to move the left thumbstick to the side and press in. I can't remember if you press in before or after moving the stick, but it's one of those. Not at all intuitive, I discovered it by accident while trying to do something else.
  • DarkTenkaDarkTenka Posts: 1,078
    Wintermute
    Oh yeah that took me a minute to figure out. You have to move the left thumbstick to the side and press in. I can't remember if you press in before or after moving the stick, but it's one of those. Not at all intuitive, I discovered it by accident while trying to do something else.
    Thanks! .. I'll give that a try.
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,960 Volunteer Moderator
    edited December 2017
    Yeah, the menus are definitely an issue, and it’ll get worse as the inventory fills up. I’ll try pushing forward a little on the stick to pick things up, but I’m also going to mess with the ini files—there was a variable called something like “center percentage” which was set to 0.5, and I did notice a Y offset variable that might account for needing to push forward. 

    It does feel more like playing Fallout 4 with VorpX than a real made-for-VR game. Things like picking up objects—it should be a natural grip button grab, instead of pressing and holding the stick to get into “interaction mode” (which is a direct carry-over from the 2D game, press and hold the interact button).

    If I could remap the controls, I would move interaction to the grip buttons (so you can still press them while manipulating the stick), move Reload/Grenade, Pip light, and Crouch to the unused X/A face buttons, and change the sticks to “hold to scroll” like in the Oculus Home menus. Also, turning needs to be done by just nudging the stick, rather than push to the side and click. 

    Apart from the thumbstick behaviour, the rest of that might be do-able with that user-made input emulation software for SteamVR. 
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  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 810
    3Jane
    It is certainly a minimal effort port to VR but that's all I was expecting tbh. Would be nice if the menus played better with the thumb sticks though, let me know how it goes.
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,960 Volunteer Moderator
    I know there are several people working on better controls, so we'll see what happens today. If a good scheme for Input Emulation doesn't emerge by tonight, then I'll try setting up something like I described above.

    There is one guy on Reddit who mapped the unused A/X buttons to emulate the thumbstick click for the opposite controller (so one hand can point the stick and the other can click when needed), but that seems clunkier to me than moving the click to the grip buttons and moving the existing grip functions to X/A.
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  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,537 Valuable Player
    edited December 2017
    I am too lazy to look but are they really charging the full price to existing owners of fall out 4?
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,960 Volunteer Moderator
    Yes.
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  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,537 Valuable Player
    edited December 2017
    Thanks and Sons of a bitch.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,375 Valuable Player
    edited December 2017
    Graphically, it isn't as blurry as people are saying. It certainly isn't the prettiest VR game, but then again 99% of games on Oculus Home meet that same description.


    Stopped reading there. Terrible analysis. 99% of my Oculus Library entails the prettiest VR games available based on the standard set between OH and SteamVR.

    As for expectations... read what people said about both Doom VFR and Fallout 4 VR before release: They were supposed to be the first true AAA VR experiences. They've both turned out to be alpha/beta experiences at best. Expectations were set, and these games failed to meet them in epic ways even for their target audience (HTC Vive users).

    If you judged Doom VFR and Fallout 4 VR as harshly as you try to judge the Rift and OH, then you'd be forced to admit that both of those games are utter crap. Instead you choose to lower your standards when discussing those games; exhibiting a rather impressive dedication to double-standards.


    KillCard said:
    How are you guys saying this is playable? .. you realise this is an RPG right? .. the moment you need to level up or use your inventory you're straight fucked.

    In-game controls are fine .. you can point/shoot .. hands are correct orientation etc and you can walk about the wilderness just fine. But the moment you need to use a menu (remember this is Fallout) .. it is literally impossible to navigate correctly. You have to press up on both sticks to get to the top .. then hold up on one stick hold down on another .. then let go of one and half push the other .. and then you MIGHT have a chance of landing on the option you wish to use. 


    Much better analysis. It seems Doom VFR was a better VR title at launch, which isn't saying much.

    I'm sure a few patches later will help Fallout 4 VR. But in the end, both Doom and Fallout for VR failed to be the "AAA VR" saviors that so many people predicted and hoped for.
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 810
    3Jane
    Zenbane said:
    Graphically, it isn't as blurry as people are saying. It certainly isn't the prettiest VR game, but then again 99% of games on Oculus Home meet that same description.


    Stopped reading there. Terrible analysis. 99% of my Oculus Library entails the prettiest VR games available based on the standard set between OH and SteamVR.
      99% of games are better looking than 99% of games? What incredible mathematical abilities you have! I rate the graphics of FO4 VR far above Arizona Sunshine but well below Robo Recall. Of course, nobody expects the local troll to read. I only replied cause I wouldn't want you to starve. Even trolls need to be fed periodically


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,375 Valuable Player
    99% of games are better looking than 99% of games? What incredible mathematical abilities you have!

    There are games on OH that are not on Steam. I'm not going to bother to list them all, but they definitely look much better than everything shown visually with Fallout 4 VR. I linked to a 1 hour play video and that stuff just looked quite horrible (as many people have reported).

    You not only contradicted vast reports, but tried to claim that 99% of OH games are as visually inferior. That most certainly makes you the Troll in this situation. A Troll calling me a Troll is a bit silly, but have fun with that.

     I rate the graphics of FO4 VR far above Arizona Sunshine but well below Robo Recall.

    Robo Recall is an Oculus Exclusive, Arizona Sunshine is not. Thanks for proving my point.
  • SadGamerDadSadGamerDad Posts: 337
    Trinity
    My video if anyone cares to watch. Going to try to use the community workarounds as they become known and plod along in the wasteland. 


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,375 Valuable Player

    lol @ the Scooby Doo Voice there, SadGamer  :)

    I love the honesty in your description of the game:
    Fallout 4 VR is like that ex-relationship you think of fondly until you look it dead in the eye. Pretty but crazy where it counts and frankly, it hurts man!


    The "waxy" look of the characters is more predominant in the VR version; unfortunate drawback.

    I'll be passing on this title and Doom VFR. My VR Backlog is too high anyway. Great playthrough! If you make it to the end be sure to post it.

  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,927 Valuable Player
    Here's some fixes for the blurry vision...


    i7 9700k 2080ti   CV1, Rift-S, Index
  • JoeManji08JoeManji08 Posts: 160
    Art3mis
    Also fix for world scale if you're having problems with that.  Setting it to 79 looked perfect for me.


  • DarkTenkaDarkTenka Posts: 1,078
    Wintermute
    MowTin said:
    Here's some fixes for the blurry vision...


    Thanks for this! .. I'm going to try it when I get home later today.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,781 Valuable Player
    I would love to play fallout 4 in vr but from what I read it's not worth the trouble  until it's optimized for the rift. Then I'm in.
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