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45 FPS Problem in some games

13

Answers

  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited January 2018
    I disabled my Intel GPU, setting the system to "DISCRETE" GPU mode in the BIOS. Launched Windows again, made sure in the device manager that only my GTX 1070 is shown and installed the latest NVidia driver.

    Stuttering and jitters INSTANTLY came back.

    It is CLEARLY A DRIVER ISSUE. I rolled back to 384.94 and the experience became butter smooth again. I believe that I could go up until 385.69 and the experience will remain smooth, where every driver after that causes gradually increasing stuttering and jitters.

    I can easily reproduce the effect on THREE INDEPENDENT SYSTEMS (all with the same configuration). So, even the assumption of malfunctioning hardware can be excluded. Someone at NVidia f*cked this up. :/

    If anyone at NVidia or Oculus reads this, let me know what tests you want me to perform to help getting your hardware to work. If the situation can't be sorted out, we'll have to return our headsets as we cannot continue our business, the moment Oculus makes the classic homescreen unavailable (thus requiring us to upgrade to current drivers).
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,460 Volunteer Moderator

    That's annoying. Hey .. is there no way to disable the intel graphics all together in bios?
    The problem is that in these systems the video out (especially hdmi) usually doesn't actually connect to the nvidia gpu at all. It's connected to the intel gpu. Even when a game runs on the nvidia gpu, every frame must be copied from the nvidia to the intel gpu before it can reach the hdmi. Plus the hdmi on these systems is usually hard locked to 60Hz, while Oculus requires 90Hz. Bios settings can't change that.

    Laptops without optimus have a much greater chance of working.


  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    For me the rabbit hole deepens. After dredging some MSI forums I've found that the Intel 7700HQ has issues with only 1 stick of RAM as it can't utilize the dual channel mode. Unfortunately MSI sold this laptop in such a state, so now I have to buy another stick of RAM to potentially fix that known issue, which could resolve this for me. Little angry about that as they're supposed to be known for gaming platforms, and the freaking thing has VR in the model name and they can't get this right. I understand how it happens and they aren't trying to deceive, but they're not getting it right for premium $$, and I'm $200 further in on their bad. :angry:

  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited January 2018
    @kojack - Sorry, but everything you say is simply not true for modern high-end gaming notebooks: You don't put 32 GB RAM, a GTX 1070 (with 8 GB VRAM) and an i7 into a gaming notebook for 3k EUR and then limit the whole brick at 60 FPS/hz. That's just (very obvious!) nonsense.

    Plus: The notebook(s) came with a "VR ready" claim, Plus: The Rift used to work fine until NVidia 385.69 (and still works fine if you don't upgrade NVidia's "The Way it's meant to be played!" - Optimus sensation" to a later build), Plus: If MSHybrid is disabled via BIOS, the Intel GPU is 100% bypassed and not even shown as a system component in the device manager.

    We don't need any general words of wisdom, but solid instructions how to debug this thing and track down what's wrong when we install a post ~385.69 NVida driver. No Feng Shui, no Kung Fu... just some debugging & reporting instructions.
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    edited January 2018
    kojack said:

    That's annoying. Hey .. is there no way to disable the intel graphics all together in bios?
    The problem is that in these systems the video out (especially hdmi) usually doesn't actually connect to the nvidia gpu at all. It's connected to the intel gpu. Even when a game runs on the nvidia gpu, every frame must be copied from the nvidia to the intel gpu before it can reach the hdmi. Plus the hdmi on these systems is usually hard locked to 60Hz, while Oculus requires 90Hz. Bios settings can't change that.

    Laptops without optimus have a much greater chance of working.



     That's old news now, high-end laptops use a different approach / Optimus is pretty much dead with 10 series chips. .}~

    Edit: Optimus is still around, but for M series lower-end chips that are meant to go into ultra thins etc. high-end gaming laptops are more like a PC.
    Core i7-7700k @ 4.9 Ghz | 32 GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 3000Mhz | 2x 1TB Samsung Evo | 2x 4GB WD Black
    ASUS MAXIMUS IX HERO | MSI AERO GTX 1080 OC @ 2000Mhz | Corsair Carbide Series 400C White (RGB FTW!) 

    Be kind to one another :)
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,460 Volunteer Moderator
    kojack said:

    That's annoying. Hey .. is there no way to disable the intel graphics all together in bios?
    The problem is that in these systems the video out (especially hdmi) usually doesn't actually connect to the nvidia gpu at all. It's connected to the intel gpu. Even when a game runs on the nvidia gpu, every frame must be copied from the nvidia to the intel gpu before it can reach the hdmi. Plus the hdmi on these systems is usually hard locked to 60Hz, while Oculus requires 90Hz. Bios settings can't change that.

    Laptops without optimus have a much greater chance of working.



     That's old news now, high-end laptops use a different approach / Optimus is pretty much dead with 10 series chips. .}~

    Edit: Optimus is still around, but for M series lower-end chips that are meant to go into ultra thins etc. high-end gaming laptops are more like a PC.
    Maybe you should go tell Nvidia that, since their 10-series laptop page says Optimus.
    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/10series/laptops/

  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    edited January 2018
    kojack said:
    kojack said:

    That's annoying. Hey .. is there no way to disable the intel graphics all together in bios?
    The problem is that in these systems the video out (especially hdmi) usually doesn't actually connect to the nvidia gpu at all. It's connected to the intel gpu. Even when a game runs on the nvidia gpu, every frame must be copied from the nvidia to the intel gpu before it can reach the hdmi. Plus the hdmi on these systems is usually hard locked to 60Hz, while Oculus requires 90Hz. Bios settings can't change that.

    Laptops without optimus have a much greater chance of working.



     That's old news now, high-end laptops use a different approach / Optimus is pretty much dead with 10 series chips. .}~

    Edit: Optimus is still around, but for M series lower-end chips that are meant to go into ultra thins etc. high-end gaming laptops are more like a PC.
    Maybe you should go tell Nvidia that, since their 10-series laptop page says Optimus.
    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/10series/laptops/

    Where? I cant find it.

    EDIT: It says here yes: https://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/optimus/supported-gpus but I haven't seen an implementation yet in a high-end notebook as you describe .. every instance I played with has a disable Intel chipset option.
    Core i7-7700k @ 4.9 Ghz | 32 GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 3000Mhz | 2x 1TB Samsung Evo | 2x 4GB WD Black
    ASUS MAXIMUS IX HERO | MSI AERO GTX 1080 OC @ 2000Mhz | Corsair Carbide Series 400C White (RGB FTW!) 

    Be kind to one another :)
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,460 Volunteer Moderator
    kojack said:
    kojack said:

    That's annoying. Hey .. is there no way to disable the intel graphics all together in bios?
    The problem is that in these systems the video out (especially hdmi) usually doesn't actually connect to the nvidia gpu at all. It's connected to the intel gpu. Even when a game runs on the nvidia gpu, every frame must be copied from the nvidia to the intel gpu before it can reach the hdmi. Plus the hdmi on these systems is usually hard locked to 60Hz, while Oculus requires 90Hz. Bios settings can't change that.

    Laptops without optimus have a much greater chance of working.



     That's old news now, high-end laptops use a different approach / Optimus is pretty much dead with 10 series chips. .}~

    Edit: Optimus is still around, but for M series lower-end chips that are meant to go into ultra thins etc. high-end gaming laptops are more like a PC.
    Maybe you should go tell Nvidia that, since their 10-series laptop page says Optimus.
    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/10series/laptops/

    Where? I cant find it.

    EDIT: It says here yes: https://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/optimus/supported-gpus but I haven't seen an implementation yet in a high-end notebook as you describe .. every instance I played with has a disable Intel chipset option.
    Sorry, I didn't realise the page uses javascript or something to show the info, so the link didn't show what I intended. :)
    Go to the link I said and click the View Full Specs link near the bottom. That takes over the page and shows a table with a "NVIDIA Optimus technology" row with Yes under each Geforce 10x0 model.
  • JJcourageJJcourage Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    edited January 2018
    TL;DR
    I've had no time to get out the Rift from its box again yet to do more Steam VR tests (but I'm assuming we're OK).
    At least I have peace of mind that there is this external monitor plugged-in workaround (thanks to everyone!). At present I will always plug the mini-DP out to e.g. a TV with a free HDMI in, or a nearby desktop monitor, but of course, this is stupid/nuts and has totally killed the standalone, turnkey portable Rift setup I bought the Alienware R3 13 specifically for.
    Let's hope next driver update = soon fixed.

    More:
    1. I can report my Alienware R3 13 does _not_ have any option to change anything re: Onboard v. Discrete in its UEFI firmware [which looks like what I used to call a BIOS].

    Disappointing, but the way it is. I am guessing due to its OLED touch panel and related power requirements. I also wouldn't want to force this permanently, as yes, you'd lose all the great battery saving functionality and is totally silent, it's also a touch panel, but I haven't got used to even using it like that! Doh

    2. Question: In the Nvidia website's driver pages, you can download both GTX 1060 "Notebook" versions for e.g. Win 64 390.65 drivers, as well as GTX 1060 "Desktop" versions. Does anyone know what the differences are? Has anyone seen any changes in performance with the Rift, desktop v. notebook versions, when used on a Notebook GTX?

    3. I went through the UEFI pages/tabs slowly, carefully, moving down all possible options. On page 1 it does list vertically in a greyed-out form all the components e.g. Onboard GFX is called "Intel Kabylake" rather than Intel HD 630 (again, this is not completely helpful).

    I agree - this has to be solely a Driver issue. My R3 13 is directly advertised by Dell as being available specifically for Rift use:
    https://www.dell.com/support/article/uk/en/ukbsdt1/sln303706/connecting-the-oculus-rift-vr-headset-to-the-alienware-13-r3-15-r3-and-17-r4?lang=en

    For one week, it worked perfectly, buttery smooth and I had no clue how it could even become broken like this. I was impressed that it was even buttery smooth on battery power alone (!). Oh, it is worth saying, I'd forgotten, before the above external monitor fix, the Rift's micro-stuttering was worse when on battery power only, and became a little tiny bit smoother when you switched on the power at the wall. I've actually used that as an indicator to double-check when I'd forgotten to switch on an individual scoket in a multi-way plug I was using once this month!

    I did quite a lot of research, for most of 2017 in fact, to ensure a notebook with a GTX 1060 and the right number of ports (without need to possible pain figuring out out to carry around and use successfully a 4 way powered USB 3.0 hub, ugh) would be sufficient, for a _portable_ solution. So I am right now feeling let down a bit, but it wasn't unexpected - I've been in this game for too many decades, and if it was all to work well, I'd actually be surprised (and I was, for that first week!)...

    As said many times above, only when I changed, at precisely that point in time, from the pre-installed 385.14 drivers did any of this stuttering start. I realised I had made some form of "user mistake" just because I wanted to try Rift Core beta 2.0 (I agree, calling it stuttering, while true, it actually renders _all_ of the Rift experience totally unserviceable.You have an expensive paperweight that must be turned off for your own health and VDU safety. And IMHO I mean that seriously. In fact, Dell have a stake in this: as anyone buying the R3 13 - will they too have the issues I have seen, as standard, out of the box, since early December? Is it true for the R3 15 and R3 17 systems as well? These '15' and '17' systems are listed as officialy certified here (do they mean R3 version, too?), but not the '13', which is odd in itself (as it did work perfectly):
    https://www.oculus.com/oculus-ready-pcs/#pc-offers

    I have exprienced for a fact that the Alienware R3 13 did work perfectly with the Rift up until one driver change install, up from 385.14 (A09). So my expectation is that whoever (Nvidia team) develops the Nvidia driver packages, can compare and fix this introduced bug.

    Finally, I'd like to end on a positive. Starting up Robo Recall, it is so _so_ well done, what a halo product, jaw-dropping. I hadn't actually realised how amazing it was, even with my prior research. It was the first thing I ever did with the Rift - the Intro music is fantastic (Seth Weedon, I now find: man deserves a medal). Wow, Robo still gets me pumped! That first Rift VR play for me ranked right up there, right up with my first Doom ftp download in the 90s, and wearing out the soft keys on a ZX80... No, maybe not quite the latter, that is pure legend, but close! :p
    LONG LIVE THE RIFT!

    Alienware R3 13 OLED notebook | GTX 1060 6 GB (Intel 630 HD igfx) | Core i7-7700HQ | 512 | 16 GB RAM
    Rift worked perfectly (no stutters) until early Dec 2017, then stuttered until May 2018 (gave up using it). Since May '18, what worked = use DDU to force remove all Nvidia GPU drivers, reinstall all Dell official ones, followed by (to present) 411.70. On Oculus Home 1.33. All works fine.
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    I didn't see a desktop or notebook version of the drivers (although I know that they aren't technically identical). I'm downloading my drivers from here: http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-uk

    Where did you find the seperated driver releases?
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • JJcourageJJcourage Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    edited January 2018
    Sharkster: that’s right, you have the right link. Select Geforce, then the next dialog down, you can select two options (amongst others) ... either 10 series _or_ 10 series (Notebooks).
    The files you end up downloading actually have different file names. Are they functionally identical? If so, why the need for different file names...
    Alienware R3 13 OLED notebook | GTX 1060 6 GB (Intel 630 HD igfx) | Core i7-7700HQ | 512 | 16 GB RAM
    Rift worked perfectly (no stutters) until early Dec 2017, then stuttered until May 2018 (gave up using it). Since May '18, what worked = use DDU to force remove all Nvidia GPU drivers, reinstall all Dell official ones, followed by (to present) 411.70. On Oculus Home 1.33. All works fine.
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    Interesting. Didn't really notice that. I know that the desktop 1070 and the notebook 1070 aren't technically identical. Although there used to be bigger differences, when there still was the "M" generation (the notebook variants with the "M" were signifcantly slower), the performance difference is not that big anymore today, which is why they dropped the "M" and simply call them "notebook" today.

    Anyway, going to download both packages and investigate this further.
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • JJcourageJJcourage Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    edited January 2018
    What? <double post removed>
    Alienware R3 13 OLED notebook | GTX 1060 6 GB (Intel 630 HD igfx) | Core i7-7700HQ | 512 | 16 GB RAM
    Rift worked perfectly (no stutters) until early Dec 2017, then stuttered until May 2018 (gave up using it). Since May '18, what worked = use DDU to force remove all Nvidia GPU drivers, reinstall all Dell official ones, followed by (to present) 411.70. On Oculus Home 1.33. All works fine.
  • JJcourageJJcourage Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    edited January 2018
    What? <triplicate post removed> - no idea what happened there. Sorry.
    Alienware R3 13 OLED notebook | GTX 1060 6 GB (Intel 630 HD igfx) | Core i7-7700HQ | 512 | 16 GB RAM
    Rift worked perfectly (no stutters) until early Dec 2017, then stuttered until May 2018 (gave up using it). Since May '18, what worked = use DDU to force remove all Nvidia GPU drivers, reinstall all Dell official ones, followed by (to present) 411.70. On Oculus Home 1.33. All works fine.
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    I guess we're actually talking two totally different symptoms here: The one is a general performance loss (basically the main subject of this thread) and the other being weird lagging, stutters, jitters etc. The stutters become even more bad, if the performance goes down too. The latter is the effect that JJCourage and I experience, while you seem to have primarily a performance issue. Happy you got that solved!

    JJcourage said:
    Sharkster: that’s right, you have the right link. Select Geforce, then the next dialog down, you can select two options (amongst others) ... either 10 series _or_ 10 series (Notebooks).
    The files you end up downloading actually have different file names. Are they functionally identical? If so, why the need for different file names...

    Checked that out. If you look at the dirver folder in the WHQL archives of both download packages, they're both 100% identical. So, the difference seems to be somewhere in the peripheral NVidia apps. I'm not really interested in all these extras, as they're primarily bloatware to me. Uninstalling them was the first thing I tried after the micro stutters had started.
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • kickassretardkickassretard Posts: 26
    Brain Burst
    kojack said:
    kojack said:
    kojack said:

    That's annoying. Hey .. is there no way to disable the intel graphics all together in bios?
    The problem is that in these systems the video out (especially hdmi) usually doesn't actually connect to the nvidia gpu at all. It's connected to the intel gpu. Even when a game runs on the nvidia gpu, every frame must be copied from the nvidia to the intel gpu before it can reach the hdmi. Plus the hdmi on these systems is usually hard locked to 60Hz, while Oculus requires 90Hz. Bios settings can't change that.

    Laptops without optimus have a much greater chance of working.



     That's old news now, high-end laptops use a different approach / Optimus is pretty much dead with 10 series chips. .}~

    Edit: Optimus is still around, but for M series lower-end chips that are meant to go into ultra thins etc. high-end gaming laptops are more like a PC.
    Maybe you should go tell Nvidia that, since their 10-series laptop page says Optimus.
    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/10series/laptops/

    Where? I cant find it.

    EDIT: It says here yes: https://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/optimus/supported-gpus but I haven't seen an implementation yet in a high-end notebook as you describe .. every instance I played with has a disable Intel chipset option.
    Sorry, I didn't realise the page uses javascript or something to show the info, so the link didn't show what I intended. :)
    Go to the link I said and click the View Full Specs link near the bottom. That takes over the page and shows a table with a "NVIDIA Optimus technology" row with Yes under each Geforce 10x0 model.

    I have an MSI PE72 laptop. 7700HQ CPU and 1050 GPU, so not "lower end". All display connections go to the Intel GPU so no Rift support here.
  • JJcourageJJcourage Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    Sharkster: re: 10 series v. 10 series (Notebook) driver offerings. OK, that's good to know. At the weekend I'm going to try your method above of just extracting out the core driver. I'm going to try that from the last one that worked properly for me, the 385.14 from Dell (which they term their A09 version for the Alienware R3 13).
    [Also, I hadn't said, but during my installing/reinstalling 15-20 times, across various Nvidia drivers, I had at one point tried a 388.xx (Desktop) and also it's 388.xx (Notebook) version, and indeed, saw no difference, just the bad stutters; you now confirm that indeed the core offering of these drivers are identical.]
    Alienware R3 13 OLED notebook | GTX 1060 6 GB (Intel 630 HD igfx) | Core i7-7700HQ | 512 | 16 GB RAM
    Rift worked perfectly (no stutters) until early Dec 2017, then stuttered until May 2018 (gave up using it). Since May '18, what worked = use DDU to force remove all Nvidia GPU drivers, reinstall all Dell official ones, followed by (to present) 411.70. On Oculus Home 1.33. All works fine.
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited January 2018
    I have an MSI PE72 laptop. 7700HQ CPU and 1050 GPU, so not "lower end". All display connections go to the Intel GPU so no Rift support here.

     A 1050 is not exactly "low end", I agree... but I wouldn't run a Rift under a 1060.

    Anyway, how do you know it's directly plugged into the Intel? Can you disable the Intel in the BIOS/UEFI settings (i.e. discrete or mshybrid mode)?
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • JJcourageJJcourage Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    edited February 2018
    TL;DR:
    New Nvidia 390.77 (of 2 days ago I see) with a full DDU (safe mode+clear Geforce experience residuals) clean, have improved my setup a lot, up to "95%" fixed, buttery smooth, without recourse to the external monitor fix above (in Tomb Raider, not even the External Monitor fix works, either, after 2-5 minutes, the stutters are triggered on a scene by scene, even view-by-view, basis).

    Update: Plans changed, I had time today to do more unwanted troubleshooting. I wasn't going to bother to post any more, as I really don't have time to beta-support a product I was using happily, albeit for just one week, but...

    95% Fixed for me!? Even without an external monitor (But I still have odd behaviour (i.e. intermittent stuttering) in Tomb Raider, with or without the external monitor, during the same gameplay session.

    1. OK. I left this laptop, bought only for Rift, unplugged from anything, totally free ports. Plugged in the power/PSU. Booted up. Went to Nvidia, found a new driver version. 390.77. Donwloaded the '10 (Notebooks)' Win 64 bit version.

    2. Rebooted the laptop twice to clear Win Update / Dell Auto-Update messages. Ugh. Decided to change my WiFi setting to being a Metered Connection to try and avoid anything else downloading in the background (yes, Windows Update, I'm looking at you, always trying to install a 10th of November 2017 Nvidia driver (what!?) after I install any newer Nvidia driver).

    3. Ran DDU, went the whole hog, rebooted into Safe Mode (my G*d, is that hard to do, not just F8 anymore, a total pain to get into UEFI Safe Mode, much swearing).

    4. Deinstalled my 390.65 Nvidia driver using DDU in Safe Mode, clicking both the bottom option (remove all Nvidia Gexperience cache and leftover files) as well as remove all driver files (top option) and... restart.

    4b) Install 390.77 driver - butn ONLY the core driver (top option in Custom checked) - nothing else (thanks for the tip, Sharkster). No Geforce exprience, HD audio, PhysX. Restart at end of installation as required.

    5. Log in. Plugged in, all separate ports:
    a) left rift sensor (my laptop's (see signature) left USB 3.1 port
    b) right rift sensor (right USB 3.1 port)
    c) the Rift headset (rear HDMI, as well as "rear Type C 3.1 adaptor" that I need (have a female Type C USB 3.1 port at the back of the R3 13) to the Rift's headset USB type A 3.1.
    d) Used mini-DP adaptor, to DP to HDMI cable, plugged from the laptop rear mini-DP port to the HDMI 2 port of a large screen TV (the "external monitor" of Redleader42/Sharkster and LZoltowski's help from above posts).

    6. Reboot for good measure. Wait one minute. Start Oculus Client, run the full Sensor + Guardian + height (cm), setup procedure. Trace out a Full 2 x 3m sensor setup play area. No stutters seen. External monitor (the TV/HDMI) is on, volume on low, set to Monitor 2, only screen on thus the OLED of my R3 13 is off.

    7. NO STUTTERING in the Rift with anything I throw at it - Robo, the 1.22 Client (I'm not touching any Beta Oculus stuff at the moment), Google Earth VR. All Buttery smooth. (maybe one or two little glitches during the first few seconds of loading assets, no problem, as informed in previous posts). Like the first week I had the laptop, but now on 390.77 drivers.

    OK. That's the baseline starting point. [NB at this stage, I did not try Tomb Raider]

    Let's start experimenting.
    8. Turn off the external monitor with its remote control, during Robo Recall, during gameplay, mission 1, when no robots around, so it's a bit calm (!) in the 'city'. The Rift's view stuttered, fixed (like there's no tracking) for a second. But recovers. And... it's all fine! Even mid-play! No crash, nothing. I unpause the game, and continue for a few minutes. Wow. Great.

    9. I totally unplug the mini-DP cable, during play. Again, no problems, driver has already released itself. Now... I switch back on the OLED monitor (the power-options btw have always been set to OLED profile, not High Performance profile - why? Because ultimately I want my laptop to behave itself totally normally, as I purchased it for, one day, as it had done when I first received it. So all Power Profile questions, assume I had it on the OLED-specific screen option.
    No stuttering. Multiple windows open, all smooth.
    Good.

    10. Reboot the whole laptop, external monitor unplugged. Repeat all the above. No stuttering! Take rest, go to lunch.
    11. Now we are getting cheeky: Open Steam VR (Big Picture mode as I want the proper high dpi settings, thank you Steam).
    12. Try Google Earth VR, no external monitor plugged in. All good, all smooth, no problems !
    13. Start Tomb Raider... no problems! at first...
    BUT...
    I look in the first 2 rooms, then enter the main hallway (as huge area, full of effects like reflections, dropping water from the centre of the ceiling/space, and so on).
    The stutters suddenly switch themselves on, full force.
    Wow. OK, not so great.
    Quit all, reboot system, check everything again. All good (like when I first bought it, no external monitor fix), until...
    Tomb Raider, the main staircase/hall.
    14. So, I start playing with the Graphics options in Tomb Raider (TR). I've done many permutations. End result, I can't find any logic. Also, when you are in a room with less Advnace graphics (reflections) going on, the stuttering does stop. It comes and goes this time.

    15. Plug back in the External Monitor. What happens? The same thing BUT it takes _longer_ for the stutters to switch back on, perhaps 1 minute, perhaps 2 minutes or more. Then, you can turn around and face a boring wall, teleport, and the stuters disappear. Look into the glistening room, and then start again. Yes, that main grand staircase space in TR really triggers the problem. Somehow. Robo and all else remains fine today (but after a reboot).

    Summary: 390.77 with a full DDY safe mode clean, have improved my portable laptop setup a lot, up to "95%" fixed, without recourse to the "external monitor fix".
    Alienware R3 13 OLED notebook | GTX 1060 6 GB (Intel 630 HD igfx) | Core i7-7700HQ | 512 | 16 GB RAM
    Rift worked perfectly (no stutters) until early Dec 2017, then stuttered until May 2018 (gave up using it). Since May '18, what worked = use DDU to force remove all Nvidia GPU drivers, reinstall all Dell official ones, followed by (to present) 411.70. On Oculus Home 1.33. All works fine.
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    Did Tomb Raider ever run for you stutter free? Great write up by the way .. will be very helpful for others.
    Core i7-7700k @ 4.9 Ghz | 32 GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 3000Mhz | 2x 1TB Samsung Evo | 2x 4GB WD Black
    ASUS MAXIMUS IX HERO | MSI AERO GTX 1080 OC @ 2000Mhz | Corsair Carbide Series 400C White (RGB FTW!) 

    Be kind to one another :)
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    JJcourage said:

    Decided to change my WiFi setting to being a Metered Connection to try and avoid anything else downloading in the background (yes, Windows Update, I'm looking at you, always trying to install a 10th of November 2017 Nvidia driver (what!?) after I install any newer Nvidia driver).

    If you have Oculus Tray Tool installed it has an option to disable these automatic driver updates that Windows performs. I think it's a shortcut to this process: https://goo.gl/UWz5Hi

    3. Ran DDU, went the whole hog, rebooted into Safe Mode (my G*d, is that hard to do, not just F8 anymore, a total pain to get into UEFI Safe Mode, much swearing).

    This had me lol because I went through the exact same thing. I'm apparently F8 old school as well. Much swearing is right. lol
  • kickassretardkickassretard Posts: 26
    Brain Burst
    I have an MSI PE72 laptop. 7700HQ CPU and 1050 GPU, so not "lower end". All display connections go to the Intel GPU so no Rift support here.

     A 1050 is not exactly "low end", I agree... but I wouldn't run a Rift under a 1060.

    Anyway, how do you know it's directly plugged into the Intel? Can you disable the Intel in the BIOS/UEFI settings (i.e. discrete or mshybrid mode)?


    Yeah, sure it's low for VR, but not low for laptops in general. I was bringing the laptop up as an example that the "Rift doesn't work on Optimus laptops" issue is still around and didn't go away with Nvidia 10xx generation.

    The is no setting in the BIOS and the way I tell that the display connections go to the Intel GPU is via the following screen in the Nvidia control panel:

  • JJcourageJJcourage Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    Cheers LZoltowski. In one gameplay session, Tomb Raider (TR), never stutter free. It comes and goes.
    But with my latest 390.77 / DDU (complete) attempt, it is by far the best it has ever been (which is not exactly acceptable, I can't really do more than 5 min in a go).

    Here are some more observations with this latest driver 'setup' (no external monitor, OLED on
    - let's call this 'Vanilla' i.e. why I bought the R3 13/Rift in the first place.:

    So, under Vanilla conditions, with 390.77 / DDU - the last 20 min I have seen:
    SuperHot, perfect (but I will say, in the loading/asset scenes for any game now, I am sure I get a little bit of tiny tiny stutter, which I am sure I never saw in the first week of December when the whole setup was first unboxed - I say this because I never even thought about lost frames or stutter, until I first saw it).
    Google Earth VR, perfect
    H3 (hotdogs), AWFUL - total stutter mess, any combination +/- external monitor; it's a no-go.
    TR, a mixed mess - some scenes or teleports rock solid, lots of 'water effects', it goes mad until I teleport away (but this is not consistent). It's, erm, doable, but clearly way off being fit for purpose.
    Oculus Classic Home 1.22 - as far as I have seen, perfect, no fix, just vanilla a-ok.

    RedLeader42, ha, yes, F'eight, eye-eight u-i-eff'n'eight.
    Sharkster-NVR, I guess I should try all I've done today with a 384.xx offering. But I'm all out of energy today.
    Question, anyone: Can you get Nvidia to send you a form of push alert when they release a driver?
    Alienware R3 13 OLED notebook | GTX 1060 6 GB (Intel 630 HD igfx) | Core i7-7700HQ | 512 | 16 GB RAM
    Rift worked perfectly (no stutters) until early Dec 2017, then stuttered until May 2018 (gave up using it). Since May '18, what worked = use DDU to force remove all Nvidia GPU drivers, reinstall all Dell official ones, followed by (to present) 411.70. On Oculus Home 1.33. All works fine.
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited February 2018
    @kickassretard - On "high-end notebooks" it's not a problem to fully disable the Intel GPU. Therefore, Optimus shouldn't be an issue for the Rift and/or NVidia drivers.

    However, setting my GPU to "discrete", instead of "mshybrid", doesn't change anything. I guess that's because even in mshybrid mode, the Rift is connected to the NVidia GPU, not the Intel GPU. Here are the charts for a normal Windows dektop fig. A using mshybrid mode and fig. B UEFI settings set to discrete:


    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    I know this thread has gotten long-winded at this point, but now that I've resolved my general performance issue resolved I'm able to feel different hiccups in performance. When you all are mentioning "micro stuttering" is this something that happens continually throughout play, or intermittently? I am seeing issues now in various moments of Robo Recall, say mission 1-2, when things get hairy that performance drops. It can happen at times outside of frenetic fighting too though, say on the summary screen after a mission. It comes and goes. I would have to do more testing to see if it's an issue around the Intel adapter or drivers, but thought I'd ask if you all experience this.

    Also on my MSI GE63VR, I have no BIOS option or hardware switch to disable the Intel video. I know for a fact that my HDMI and micro displayport are on the GeForce as it's reported in device manager. I can't see anything that says I have "Optimus," but it appears the drivers have to decide which GPU to use. It doesn't seem within my control without hooking up an external monitor and disabling the Intel output that way.
  • JJcourageJJcourage Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    No BIOS option either on Alienware 13 R3 OLED version. I'm guessing this is due to the OLED screen power requirements (the F7 key's I/D GFX is disabled officially by Dell on my laptop), as I've read documentation on the Dell support site that alludes to the fact that (perhaps) on the LCD versions there might be a slightly different Onboard v. Discrete graphics implementation. I attach a screen grab of PhysX as I type, with nothing else attached to the laptop (on battery power).
    RedLeader42: I don't think I'm getting it as bad as you (and I'm on a GTX 1060 6Gb) now on the 390.77 release. Robo is pretty much OK now, but, subjectively, I don't have the 'perfect' first week of experiences anymore that I had before. Then I can't recally any kind of 'jitter', framedrop, or anything - not even when a game started up (sorry, but I just thought, wow, all this VR/Rift experience is flawless. I've had 'official-certified' Daydream VR for a year, and that too is pretty smooth/slick, but it does have it's jittery moments where the scene you are viewing 'tears' (No Limits VR); then when I started with Rift I saw none of that at all, ever. I was just very impressed.
    Then I came off that first driver 385.14 and it all fell apart in terms of, let's say "visual performance".

    Ok, I'll add another idea into this complicated mix - which is a far out idea - but any comments, from anyone, appreciated: I read elsewhere that a year or so ago, the Alienware series' (across all models?) thermal paste for CPU/GPU has sometimes been applied at the factory very badly, well, it being rubbish in material, too (I've read alleged 9 year old paste?). I'd hoped it had been corrected by now (yes, I know, live in hope). But I'd have to void warranty to re-do it, and right now, it being so new, erm, no. I've taken apart laptops and reapplied paste to graphics cards (the most recent one was a 4 year old HD7970 Matrix, added VRAM sinks, too) so I know the benefits (10-20C temp drops across the board usually). But, really, could all our problems be a) the 388.xx+ driver reduces performance (by causing additional heat... thereby 'frying' the thermal paste hard...??) then forever afterwards meaning we are into b) thermal realms that then cause heat throttling due to this bad thermal paste. This might also make sense as to why I can't go back to the original driver 385.14 to reclaim the original visual performance. If so, good grief. The PC world never changes - ha! It's a global obsolescence conspiracy - LOL. Maybe this is too far-fetched. Oh, with Google Earth VR, sometimes the fans on the 13 R3 stop altogether (!) and I do get a glitch every 30 secs or so, even on 390.77. Not too bad, but I can't recall any glitches at all when I first had the setup - but that's now 2 months ago.

    I am pretty annoyed though that going back down to the factory installed 385.14 (A09) driver by Dell (from the Dell support site) no longer corrects things in the Rift back to 'perfect'. 390.77 is not _too bad_ though, but once I've experienced 'perfect', I want it back!

    NB I have to run the 13" 2560x1440 OLED display at 200% (for me), hence high dpi conflict with tiny icons. It's interesting that the HDMI and mini-DP port _both_ reside on the Discrete 1060 side of things:

    Alienware R3 13 OLED notebook | GTX 1060 6 GB (Intel 630 HD igfx) | Core i7-7700HQ | 512 | 16 GB RAM
    Rift worked perfectly (no stutters) until early Dec 2017, then stuttered until May 2018 (gave up using it). Since May '18, what worked = use DDU to force remove all Nvidia GPU drivers, reinstall all Dell official ones, followed by (to present) 411.70. On Oculus Home 1.33. All works fine.
  • JJcourageJJcourage Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    No! it gets bizarre - with or without the Rift plugged in to the HDMI - even on a reboot - the PhysX shows this (when I have the external monitor (Samsung TV running at 1920 x 1080) off the mini-DP port. And the OLED built-in 13" screen is also still running! What is going on? Connections are missing. It should show: GTX 1060 -> Rift on HDMI, Samsung TV on mini-DP out, and Intel HD -> OLED.

    Alienware R3 13 OLED notebook | GTX 1060 6 GB (Intel 630 HD igfx) | Core i7-7700HQ | 512 | 16 GB RAM
    Rift worked perfectly (no stutters) until early Dec 2017, then stuttered until May 2018 (gave up using it). Since May '18, what worked = use DDU to force remove all Nvidia GPU drivers, reinstall all Dell official ones, followed by (to present) 411.70. On Oculus Home 1.33. All works fine.
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    JJcourage said:
    No! it gets bizarre - with or without the Rift plugged in to the HDMI - even on a reboot - the PhysX shows this (when I have the external monitor (Samsung TV running at 1920 x 1080) off the mini-DP port. And the OLED built-in 13" screen is also still running! What is going on? Connections are missing. It should show: GTX 1060 -> Rift on HDMI, Samsung TV on mini-DP out, and Intel HD -> OLED.

    I think this is identical to what my PhysX settings looks like, with or without external monitor hooked up. Under the Processor setting I only have Auto, and the GTX listed as options, so it's essentially locked to using it. I've never seen it connected to the Intel like you show above.

    FYI, when my external monitor is hooked up the Rift disappears from the GeForce control panel, and if I unplug the monitor then re-plug the Rift, the Rift appears in the control panel again. Only one or the other can be managed it seems, but both work just fine despite this. ??

    Heat-wise, I can run anywhere from 60-70°C, and I haven't correlated performance to heat. My experience is mostly flawless with intense action momentarily dropping a lot of frames. At this point I'm trying to figure out if RR is just too much even for a GTX 1070 during intense moments or I still have a more subtle performance issue somewhere, possibly with the driver. The overall experience is acceptable but now I'm wondering if those bad moments can be further improved. More experimenting is in my future.
  • JJcourageJJcourage Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    RedLeader42: There's no way your GTX 1070 can't handle RR at its most craziest. Right now, my GTX 1060 6Gb is handling the massive boss guy and multiple Robos, drones, and so on [the limiting factor is me, pouring sweat], and I can't see any stuttering (totally smooth) on 390.77 (even without the external monitor fix) - as said, 390.77 has pretty much fixed RR for me (and Earth / SuperHot, but not TR or H3). I'm really sorry you haven't (yet) had a 'perfect' experience. As Sharkster reckons, I agree, it has to be 99% driver at this stage, or even individual equipment specific. On a BIG downside, just now for the first ever time, I noticed a band of pure graphical glitches (about 1 inch wide) right across the top portion of the OLED screen, from left to right, totally corrupted, flashing white band: this was during a 15 min TR session (non-VR) - I tried to see what different Advanced Graphics settings were available (I was at 1920x1080 f.y.i). This illicited a loud 4-letter word. Hopefully a one-off, mmm, but I doubt it. If it comes back inthe next couple of days, and more than once, then this is going back to Dell. I am not happy.
    I'm going to start checking my temps with HWMonitor.
    Alienware R3 13 OLED notebook | GTX 1060 6 GB (Intel 630 HD igfx) | Core i7-7700HQ | 512 | 16 GB RAM
    Rift worked perfectly (no stutters) until early Dec 2017, then stuttered until May 2018 (gave up using it). Since May '18, what worked = use DDU to force remove all Nvidia GPU drivers, reinstall all Dell official ones, followed by (to present) 411.70. On Oculus Home 1.33. All works fine.
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