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CV2

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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,740 Valuable Player
    edited October 2018
    Zenbane said:
     ignoring how small the PCVR market is currently.
    I been typing here for about 30mins now -- wanting to respond to this...

    Let me ask - how would you fix the current PCVR market to make it grow/be better?

    I ask because - without change in both allowing more hardware access to the HMD and therefore limiting what has access to the device - you won't see as much growth in software either.
  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,521 Valuable Player

    Well in my case, My Rift is getting a bit worse for wear. It's had 1000's of hours of use in games such as Elite Dangerous, DCS and IL2. The mic is no longer serviceable, the display is starting to lack colour, looks very washed out, and I am thinking it might be time I look to replace it. 

    I do not want to buy a like for like model, if an improvement is on the horizon. Indeed if I am forced to replace it pre CV2, then I will almost certainly be looking for for the best tech available at the time.
    I am with you there, those are the games I spend most of my time in as well.


    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,144 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    Let me ask - how would you fix the current PCVR market to make it grow/be better?

    The premise of the question is flawed because the "PCVR market" doesn't need to be fixed. It is a "niche" market. That niche is why less than 6,000 people on Earth bothered to back Pimax. It's the reason why HTC and Oculus have sold less than 10-million units "combined" since they both launched.
    It's the reason that the Mobile Gaming Industry is larger than PC and Console "combined" as of this year:
    If we rephrase your question to use a proper premise, then this is what your asking:
    "How would you make a niche market less niche?"
    Well what is the opposite of a niche when it comes to consumerism? The answer is: Mainstream.
    It is the consumers who decide what is niche vs what is mainstream. When an organization like Facebook is trying to create a self-sustaining business model, it must rely on what the market (consumers) have dictated to be "mainstream." The market has spoken for years: PC is a niche.
    It doesn't matter if we're talking Social Media, Standard 2D Gaming, or Virtual Reality. The mainstream market demands "mobility." There is nothing to fix here.
    The bigger issue with your question is that you presume that "computer gaming" is what is driving the world forward. It is definitely not. Everything from Social Media, Video Entertainment, and Business Applications are driving the world forward. And the world does not need a power gaming desktop to achieve any of this. Which is why GO and Quest are the proper course of action for an organization trying to build a self-sustaining business model.

    Now let me ask you a question: What would you do to create a self-sustaining business model if you were running your own Virtual Reality company?

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  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 2,138 Valuable Player
    Probably an actual long time user like yourself on the Board of Directors imho.

    Custom built gaming desktop; i9 9900k (water cooled) oc to 5ghz, gtx 1080 ti, 32 gb 3000hz ram, 1 tb ssd, 4 tb hdd.  Asus  ROG Maximus xi hero wifi mb, StarTech 4 port/4 controller sata powered usb3.0 pcie card, Asus VG248QE 1080p 144hz gaming monitor, Oculus Rift cv1 w/2x sensors, Vive Pro w/2.0 base stations/controllers, Quest w/Link and VD wireless (good/close 5Ghz wifi and PC with Ethernet cable to my Router).

  • JakemanOculusJakemanOculus Posts: 514
    Neo
    herne6210 said:
    Just give me a CV1 with improved res and optics and I will be very happy. Call it a 1.5 but please give us something !!!
    And make the same mistake as HTC?  Not recommended.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,144 Valuable Player
    herne6210 said:
    Just give me a CV1 with improved res and optics and I will be very happy. Call it a 1.5 but please give us something !!!
    And make the same mistake as HTC?  Not recommended.

    Precisely! I'm still somewhat baffled at the number of people, even those with a long upstanding track record, are coming out of OC5 with a strong opinion that... Oculus should adopt HTC's business model lol
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
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  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,277
    3Jane
    edited October 2018
    dburne said:

    Well in my case, My Rift is getting a bit worse for wear. It's had 1000's of hours of use in games such as Elite Dangerous, DCS and IL2. The mic is no longer serviceable, the display is starting to lack colour, looks very washed out, and I am thinking it might be time I look to replace it.
    I am with you there
    Same here, my CV1 lenses were scratched from the start (because early on I forgot to warn each new user how the narrow CV1 faceplate would rip their glasses off and bang them right into the CV1 lenses as it did with mine), the faceplate is a mess (the glue didn't hold), and the rubber protection at the back of the headband has peeled off... After 2.5 years I'm the only who would dare stick my head in it really :)

    So a CV1.5 would make sense for me, specially as an upgrade that works with the current sensors and Touch controls, which work fine for me and have aged fine (unlike the headset).
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    If Oculus gave us a 1.5 now, that would mean that 2.0 would be pushed back even further, that would make no sense at all.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,158 Valuable Player
    edited October 2018
    Mradr said:
    Let me ask - how would you fix the current PCVR market to make it grow/be better?

    The "PCVR" market was an incredibly difficult sell. Those that tried to proclaim it as a mainstream opportunity that would see over 5m sales in the first 24month have obviously left the stage too much humiliation. And those that now remain look upon their investment based on the previous hyperbole with some concern. None of the investment that went into development for PVR (from Indie to AAA studios) was for a "niche business". Many have shown serious surprise that this term is now being seriously used, especially how it was proffered at OC5. No way was well over $2billion paid into OVR for a "niche" business. Obviously the sales of CV1 have not panned out the way that was promised, but FB is keen to look at the wider social implications of VR, and sadly if PCVR is a niche then they will have to look father afield and that is where Standalone comes in.

    To answer the question simply: you can not fix consumer PCVR, you have to redefine PCVR! Addressing if that is a viable business model for the type of investment needed in making PC high-end VR headsets. LG has decided to wait this out, and from the wreck that is WinMR there are others that see now that the concerns voiced back in 2016 had some validity. For those that enjoy their CV1... great, long may that continue, but this was not the market promised. For those investing in the future, a 24month pause may be in order to see if consumer VR can develop in the current climate.
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
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  • herne6210herne6210 Posts: 17
    NerveGear
    Right from the start though, I saw some very vocal posts here and there where posters said that they would sit out the first generation, because of the screen door effect and instead wait until the tech had matured.

    Don't look to first generation sales as an accurate template of interest in PCVR for next gen.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,158 Valuable Player
    edited October 2018
    herne6210 said:
    Right from the start though, I saw some very vocal posts here and there where posters said that they would sit out the first generation, because of the screen door effect and instead wait until the tech had matured.

    Don't look to first generation sales as an accurate template of interest in PCVR for next gen.

    I saw a smattering of such posters, especially during the MTBS3D days after DK2 - but I think that if you were going to have supported PCVR you have doubled down, in the majority towards a CV1 platform in the 2016-17 period. I don't think there are any "sitting waiting on the fence" individuals left.

    I also feel that its impossible to say that it would be a "accurate template" to wait for Gen2 especially if Gen2 comes some time after Gen1. If there is say a five year gap between CV1 and CV2 - it may be better to say this is a reboot of the whole VR process than a natural progression. Especially after OVR management had deferred to a "smart phone type of sales run".

    It is part of the reason why I speculated that Standalone may become a surrogate for the hopes of consumer VR from 2016 - not investing fully but offering a cost-effective none high-end PC adoption path (a surrogate CV1). However, as this is more a Updated OGO platform, what can be squeezed out of the SD835 will be interesting - I note that this system will have to have active cooling to address the workload.

    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,484 Valuable Player
    TomCgcmfc said:
    Probably an actual long time user like yourself on the Board of Directors imho.

    This is a very good point and should be happening with boards of video game publishers. These boards are full of business men and women that have no background in video games and as such don't have a clue what will sell to gamers.

    When I was working for Eidos we had Ian Livingstone (of Warlock Of Firetop Mountain fame) working in the Acquisitions Department, the department that decides on which games to publish. The bloke is a complete cock who doesn't have a clue what he's doing. This department decided that Escape From Bug Island was a great idea (which ended up selling less than a thousand units in its first MONTH lol) and turned down the opportunity of publishing Fallout 3 and Bioshock. You REALLY couldn't make this shit up lmfao :o:D:D:D

    A couple of years before this happened they published Lego Star Wars and the board, in their infinite wisdom, decided not to give Traveller's Tales more money for future Lego games. And they lost a multi-million franchise. No Lego Star Wars versions after that, no Lego Batman, no Lego Harry Potter, no Lego Indiana Jones, no Lego Marvel franchise.

    I've always said that half of a board of a video game publisher should ALWAYS comprise of gamers. We know what's going to sell and what isn't going to sell because we're the target market ffs. Resident Evil 7 VR is another prime example. The vast majority of the work has been done. You could have a small team of 5 or 6 developers and 3 QA staff getting a quick and dirty gamepad only port done in a few months because the vast majority of work has already been done for the PSVR SKU - paid for by Sony ffs :o
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,158 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    ....
    This is a very good point and should be happening with boards of video game publishers. These boards are full of business men and women that have no background in video games and as such don't have a clue what will sell to gamers.


    Bit of a sweeping assumption - a number of the AAA publishers have board director advisers that come from the player community, and now more importantly, the eSports community. Also the age of the video game business means many of the current board directors grew up playing and still play today.

    A great way to voice your interest in future development is to buy shares in those publisher whose games you support. Great way to then get involved in the process, and even have a chance to voice concerns at the AGM (...in the tent, rather than .. out of it!)
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,521 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    herne6210 said:
    Right from the start though, I saw some very vocal posts here and there where posters said that they would sit out the first generation, because of the screen door effect and instead wait until the tech had matured.

    Don't look to first generation sales as an accurate template of interest in PCVR for next gen.

    I saw a smattering of such posters, especially during the MTBS3D days after DK2 - but I think that if you were going to have supported PCVR you have doubled down, in the majority towards a CV1 platform in the 2016-17 period. I don't think there are any "sitting waiting on the fence" individuals left.

    snip

    I believe there is a significant number of PC gamers still waiting on the fence when it comes to PC-VR. I base that on a lot of comments I see over on some of the gaming forums I frequent along with Video Card and Motherboard forums also.
    Many have tried VR with the Rift, Vive, or Odyssey and returned/sold them, and many who have not taken the plunge yet waiting for a higher resolution device.

    Granted by FB count, I am sure these are low numbers and does not cause them much if any concern. However I know there are several video card, and gaming peripheral manufactures that seeming do pretty well with this segment of the market.
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,158 Valuable Player
    edited October 2018
    dburne said:
    .....
    I believe there is a significant number of PC gamers still waiting on the fence when it comes to PC-VR. I base that on a lot of comments I see over on some of the gaming forums I frequent along with Video Card and Motherboard forums also.
    ....

    I have to agree - part of the reason I stated PCVR fans rather than just PC-gamer's. I still frequent two of the PC Master-race forums, and the split between those that support VR and those that don't, is quite telling. I was surprised at the number that tried and sold as well, wonder how those numbers are reflected in the 990,000 sold?

    Agree, a number of PC GPU manufacturers have come away with a smile from the up spend from VR. The same way many profited out of the abortive 3D gaming flash in the pan. But as we see with AMD, this love affair is ending and the hangover is proving painful!
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,158 Valuable Player
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • CalibosCalibos Posts: 113
    Art3mis
    kevinw729 said:
    ...and nowhere did he mention Abrashs' keynote and the reason we'll be waiting so long. 

    I've rectified that with a decidedly large Youtube comment. LOL :D
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,144 Valuable Player
    Calibos said:
    ...and nowhere did he mention Abrashs' keynote and the reason we'll be waiting so long. 

    I've rectified that with a decidedly large Youtube comment. LOL :D

    Yep, there is a lot that the YouTuber didn't mention, but I knew it was clickbait in the opening seconds when he referred to a VR HMD as "binoculars." This is just a video meant to get more Likes and Subscribers (which is how they get paid) by riding the gravy train of current soundbites revolving the artificial fear that Facebook-Oculus isn't bringing anything to PCVR.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • kernowkernow Posts: 733
    Trinity
    Techy111 said:
    As I said, not tomorrow but it went over some people's head and the humour died a death.
    As the saying goes, ❝Not tomorrow, not next week, not next year, but never!❞
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