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Is there any hope to see support for Full Body Tracking or even wireless in the near future?

Little_Robot_Fa
Explorer
I got my Oculus Rift because it was the best deal at the moment. And because I was too late to the Kickstarter party for Oculus. By the time I heard about and was obsessed with the Oculus Rift, the Kickstarter was long over. And so it was a long, long wait ahead about reading articles about people having fun times in the development kit, doing things like playing recreated versions of Zelda 1 and ect.

When Vive was announced, I decided to wait for a Rift. But even after the Rift was released, I was really broke and had to wait. I put off upgrading my PC.

But after becoming obsessed with VRChat, I broke down and bought a gaming PC and Rift, even though I could barely afford it. And it was well worth it, though I had a few issues, the first day was the most amazing experience. And still amazing, even without the new wow factor of trying First Contact for the first time. (While lacking self expression that VRC does, First Contact is by far a much more impressive and polished product and a great introduction to the virtual world).

So compelling, in fact, I took apart my HP Pavillion Power I got on Black Friday for VR, and I worry I nearly broke it in the process trying to upgrade it. I still haven't gotten the internal wireless card to work again. And that I've bought upgrades for my computer.

I love VR so much and want even better performance that I'm now investing all the money I can afford right now into it.

I just went from upgrading from this PC, that I bought at Black Friday last year for VR.


To this PC.


All because better VR performance and experience matters that much to me.

And yet, the more I look as possible upgrade options, the more it seems like my only path is to actually get a Vive. Wider tracking area? Vive Lighthouses. Better resolution and field of view, with lessened screendoor? Vive Pro, Samsung Odyssey, or Pimax. Full body tracking? I could try to find a way to make a Kinect work with my Rift. Or, I could go the easy solution and just buy a Vive.

I already have a Rift and have bought several things from the Oculus Store, though.

I want all this stuff because I'm still absolutely obsessed with and addicted to VRChat. And I'm so jealous of people who get better framerates in worlds. People having 90 fps when I struggle to get 30. People dancing with full body tracking. People being able to turn around all the time without worrying about tangled cords because they're tethered. Being able to visit people's worlds and them look less blurry.

I'm really limited on terms of options with Oculus Rift, though. I've heard that the wireless adapter for the Rift is a pain. And that full body tracking with Kinect is not very reliable and difficult to set up.

I'd rather keep going on the Oculus path, what I was originally invested in since it was first announced and I was hearing all these amazing stories from people with developer kits. Please tell me there's some hope for some plans to officially implement more features and hardware support soon? Especially full body tracking. I want that so bad.

You have no idea how much I want to dance in VRChat.

Also, I really hope we don't have to wait any later than 2020 for an Oculus Rift Consumer Version 2. Especially if there isn't any new PC hardware as a stop-gap in the meantime. Oculus Go and Santa Cruz sound nice and all, but I really just want a better VRChat experience. Which neither of those will do. I'd appreciate if something came out next year, but after 2020 I'll really start to be getting impatient and considering a Vive even more if nothing comes out for Oculus.
Old VR PC: HP Pavillion Power,  Intel Core i5-7400, NVIDIA GTX 1060 3GB Graphics, 8 GB RAM
New VR PC: HP Omen 880-130,    Intel Core i7-8700K, GTX 1080TI, 16GB RAM, 512 GB SSD

What I use VR for:
VRChat! Also, Airtone, Beat Saber, OrbusVR, SkyrimVR and DolphinVR

Features I most want:
1. Full Body Tracking 2. Full finger tracking 3. Haptics 4. Wireless Tracking 5. Wider FOV 6. Improved Resolution/Less Screendoor
27 REPLIES 27

Anonymous
Not applicable
 I would recomend others to just buy the vive 

Yeah, right, because it's worth spending 100$ per tracker (knowing that you need at least 3 for a proper body tracking, so three f*cking hundreds dollars) only for one feature which is incorporated in only a few games (in which the said feature is barely useful anyway).

Stay real, people. Full body tracking will arrive, at a decent price. Don't fall in the trap of impatience...

Anonymous
Not applicable
It's possible for Oculus to still open up and allow for such a thing. The cost to make said suit wouldn't be that costly - less than what a Vive puck would cost you. On the flip side - There is maybe a reason why we haven't seen this yet from Oculus or a third party vendor. It simply might cause problems with normal tracking such that it makes it not worth full vs head and hand tracking.

The question you might need to answer - is it really worth to have full body tracking right now? What software would support it outside of VR chat and what benefit does it allow as a player or game dev?

Personally - I love to see a full body tracking system myself. I think it's possible to do the main body - 3 points for legs, 2 points for arms, and 1 point for the chest. Granted - they will need a front and back - but I think you could do it at 100-150$ for it all. It's still early days in VR - so stuff like this is still up in the air right now. By body suit - really what I mean is like straps you place around those points for easy in and out. Otherwise - most people would see it too cumbersome to put on when they jump into vr. 

Granted - I'm not sure why they're focusing so much on tracking hands vs full body. Hand tracking doesn't offer any real benefit in terms of menu access and overall control like a controllers gives. Plus it's harder to do than just tracking parts on the body that don't even move as much or as fast compare to finger tracking takes.

Your best option is to figure out computer vision instead though and then translate that to figure out where you are and what motions you are making. This way it's into the game without having to put on anything. On the other hand - this would require different tracking camera than what the Oculus comes with and this opens the door that makes people feel a bit weird when it comes to cameras tracking their every move xD

@"Little.Robot.Fairy"
I wouldn't worry about the cost differences between building it yourself vs buying pre built. Long as it does what you want it to do and you are happy with your purchase - that is all that really matters. 

Anonymous
Not applicable
I'm not sure why they're focusing so much on tracking hands vs full body. 
I would say it's a middle step. Hand tracking alone is already very effective for environment interaction and menu access. Although I do wish I were able to kick things out of my way °o°.
Besides... having legs wouldn't really help you for menu access either 😄 . With hands you can grab stuff and touch the menu, that's already a major step (compared to non-VR software).
Full Body Tracking is the next step, and Oculus would be crazy not to use this for gen 2.

Personally, I would be hyped for a body tracking with motion capture system. I'm sure with two good Kinect-like sensors we could get effective body tracking. Don't mind me, I'm just dreaming xD.

Anonymous
Not applicable


I'm not sure why they're focusing so much on tracking hands vs full body. 
I would say it's a middle step. Hand tracking alone is already very effective for environment interaction and menu access...
Besides... having legs wouldn't really help you for menu access either D . With hands you can grab stuff and touch the menu, that's already a major step (compared to non-VR software).
Full Body Tracking is the next step, and Oculus would be crazy not to use this for gen 2.


Haven't seen a UI or game control feature that work better than a normal controller offers in the long hall. How would you even move right now in most games without a way to target a teleport point and/or joystick move around? Even if you make some of the commands into like sign language - this will increase the learning step into VR and that is going to cause even more of a problem than simply having a controller base control.

We already do most of the hands using the Touch controllers already - so it's really nothing different. More or less you are removing simply actions for more complex ones such as having to make a sign with your hands that pressing A could've done instead. I guess something like GO where there is no controller could benefit from this technology. Then again you would also want feedback so you would need a glove to make this happen or else it'll feel a bit strange reaching out and in sight look like you touch something, but your hands says you are just touching air right now (hand eye coordination).

That's why I am like how is this better? xD Why even spend time on this? It makes no sense to me right now when at least full/basic body tracking would add more value than tracking hands alone would.

With body tracking - you can skip a lot of fake stuff that we do now - but at the same time - yea it doesn't really "add" anything to the game either. At best - what it will allow for is animations that take time to do be free instead pulling the actions off the trackers instead and updating the data. There is the fun factor of course to see your body in VR moving as you move too I guess. Don't get me wrong, kicking a zombie in the face sounds amazing to me, but that's a lot of extra work a dev has to do to make that a thing in the first place. Plus there is the factor you kicking your family member in the face:)

falken76
Expert Consultant
Why not just ask the devs of VR Chat to use IK?  That would work for your arms, but not legs because you don't have a tracker there.  This is so you can dance in VR Chat?  Is that a thing?  Are Viver's with tracking pucks going around serving people ala "You got served"?

Little_Robot_Fa
Explorer

falken76 said:

Why not just ask the devs of VR Chat to use IK?  That would work for your arms, but not legs because you don't have a tracker there.  This is so you can dance in VR Chat?  Is that a thing?  Are Viver's with tracking pucks going around serving people ala "You got served"?


They're known to be stepping on the Gas, gas, gas, and running in the 90s.


Old VR PC: HP Pavillion Power,  Intel Core i5-7400, NVIDIA GTX 1060 3GB Graphics, 8 GB RAM
New VR PC: HP Omen 880-130,    Intel Core i7-8700K, GTX 1080TI, 16GB RAM, 512 GB SSD

What I use VR for:
VRChat! Also, Airtone, Beat Saber, OrbusVR, SkyrimVR and DolphinVR

Features I most want:
1. Full Body Tracking 2. Full finger tracking 3. Haptics 4. Wireless Tracking 5. Wider FOV 6. Improved Resolution/Less Screendoor

zOooZe
Honored Guest


 I would recomend others to just buy the vive 

Yeah, right, because it's worth spending 100$ per tracker (knowing that you need at least 3 for a proper body tracking, so three f*cking hundreds dollars) only for one feature which is incorporated in only a few games (in which the said feature is barely useful anyway).

Stay real, people. Full body tracking will arrive, at a decent price. Don't fall in the trap of impatience...


What i ment were to buy the vive instead of an Rift because it has more future upgradebilities and you dont havet to worry about the second gen platform. It is more expensive byt in THE Long term its cheaper

Little_Robot_Fa
Explorer

zOooZe said:

I know exactly how you feel. Seeing others having a great time with their full body and dancing. And as you said the only reliable option is just to get a vive. I were reserching all of this and as it seems oculus isnt going to make a tracker. I would have really loved to buy into the vive straight away. In my luck im going to sell my oculus to a friend and buy the htc vive and the vive trackers but i would have saved a lot of money if i just would have bought a vive in the first place. I would recomend others to just buy the vive since it has more accesories and a platform that supports older hardware just look at the htc vive pro its compatible with the old lighthouses and the old controllers and therefore i feel safer buying into it. Im going to make the switch im just sad to know that i could have had full body right now. I hope the switch will work out for you!


Glad to meet someone on the same page. I feel like fellow VRChat players will understand better just how compelling a feature it is. I'm always going in rooms and seeing people with full body tracking and feeling jealous.

I ended up logging into Facebook and watching Connect 5 while in VRChat, via the Oculus Dash and pinning the video, while I was hanging out with a German friend of mine in his private world. While I am happy about the news of Quest from a technology perspective, that VR is continuing to be miniaturized, even in the first generation, and I'm really interested in wireless VR that is untethered, especially without the need for an extra PCI-e slot, like Vive does.

I was disappointed that there was no news for anything that I could use on the PC side of things. I'm not aware of any ways Oculus Quest could be used with a PC, though I have heard there are solutions people have come up with to use Galaxy GearVR with a PC. So maybe the same solution could be used with a Quest. It's a nice step in the direction where we can just go to a Doctor and have a VR/AR contact lens lasered to our eyes. And and in the meantime just being less restricted by cords in general.

And Quest even has a lot of the best Oculus Store software. But it's still redundant for me since it can't play VRChat, and I already have a high end PC. And I would be afraid to take VR on the go, since sunlight damages VR HMDs.

I would be more than happy to buy add ons, peripherals and upgrades if Oculus/Facebook were to sell them. But so far the majority of upgrades are other made by or for the Vive ecosystem. I would love to give Oculus my money if they would provide more hardware I could use with my PC. I already have a third sensor, and have been considering getting a fourth for even better tracking.

And I'm sorry, but I'm just not willing to wait any longer for 2021 or so for Half Dome. Luckily most information going forward will probably be about Half Dome. But it has been and is going to be a long wait.


According to the accessories page, of all things there is a peripheral for Rock Band guitars instead of full body tracking or wireless or any of the neat stuff Vive is offering. At an admittedly premium price. And my new PC has one extra full sized PCI slot, not a smaller PCI-e slot that Vive's Intel wireless uses.

Nothing wrong with that, I love Rhythm games, especially Bemani. But there's very little I can go through official channels for now to upgrade and enhance my experience. Aside from a forth sensor, most of my options are third party, or to get a Vive and enter the Vive ecosystem, with far more options. Third party upgrades like TPCast for Oculus Rift, active HDMI and USB 3.0 repeaters, to renovate my house to have more playspace, buying extra USB battery packs for use with a TPCast, getting an improved Foam cover from VR Cover, getting a high end PCI USB 3.0 card to reliably plug in even more sensors, and that's about it as far as my strictly Oculus options are concerned.

Thankfully, there is a way to merge a Vive and Oculus setup together by using Vive sensors with an Oculus Rift. Which I'm seriously considering right now, in fact, at the moment I'm in contact with Oculus via email, because my proximity sensor on my Rift just started having problems, and I may have to send it in. Making me tempted to buy and use a Vive in the meantime or go for a cheaper WMR stop-gap solution so I can play VRChat in the meantime and not be stuck to desktop mode. My Rift just randomly started black screening, white screening, and occasionally red screening just the other day. And Oculus are asking me for all my information regarding my serial numbers at this point. So I'm anticipating, and hoping for them to replace or repair it to as-new condition. With no proximity sensor issues.

If it gets fixed, and I buy a Vive in the meantime while I send it in, when it comes back home, I could actually possibly use my Rift with Rift sensors, in addition to Vive sensors, and therefor get full body tracking. And I would have an extra HMD in case my Rift breaks again.

In that case, I would be able to use Full Body Tracking with an Oculus HMD, the best part of that being able to have Full Body Tracking and use Oculus Touch Controls, which are far better than Vive pucks. And we don't know how Vive Knuckles compare to Oculus Touch, yet.


The guide is here, and it looks awesome! Full Body Tracking plus Oculus Touch looks like an ideal combination. It wouldn't give me access to some of Vive's upgrades, like a Samsung Odyssey + Vive sensors, or a Pimax 5K+. But screendoor seems like a fair tradeoff for incredible controls. And I would struggle to use HTC/Intel's wireless solution without a PCI-e slot.

The tracking of such a setup should be stellar and super immersive.

I just wish I didn't have to go for such wild hybrid setups to get a better experience, the experience I want for VRChat. And Oculus would just offer an official solution like HTC has. Knowing I likely won't have to do my own troubleshooting and configuring, because Oculus has already figured out the technology themselves, and it just works without much hassle or worry.

But for a long time now, Oculus hasn't updated hardware for PC at all. And has been focusing exclusively on mobile, which can't serve my purposes. I can only hope in the future things will be less about Go and Quest, and I'll hear more about Oculus' generation 2, Half Dome, foveated rendering, and hopefully some kind of full body tracking solution.
Old VR PC: HP Pavillion Power,  Intel Core i5-7400, NVIDIA GTX 1060 3GB Graphics, 8 GB RAM
New VR PC: HP Omen 880-130,    Intel Core i7-8700K, GTX 1080TI, 16GB RAM, 512 GB SSD

What I use VR for:
VRChat! Also, Airtone, Beat Saber, OrbusVR, SkyrimVR and DolphinVR

Features I most want:
1. Full Body Tracking 2. Full finger tracking 3. Haptics 4. Wireless Tracking 5. Wider FOV 6. Improved Resolution/Less Screendoor

TomCgcmfc
MVP
MVP
Anyone got both the Vive Pro and Rift that can give an honest opinion (with their system specs)? I can afford this but I'm not prepared to just try it.  Thanks.
i9 13900K water cooled, RTX4090, Z790 MB w/wifi6e, 32Gb 6400 ram, 2x2TB SSD, 1000W PSU, Win 11, QPro, Q3, w/Link and Air Link, Vive Pro1 with Etsy lens mod and Index Controllers

kernow
Heroic Explorer
Use to use Altspace VR using Perception Neuron mocap (the kickstarter full body version, not the current more expensive retail version), but I haven't used Altspace VR in about a year. Does VRChat allow Perception Neuron use with it?