cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

No more Screen Door Effect (SDE) - new Samsung Odyssey+ introduces perceived 1,233 PPI level res

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
So we've got:

Oculus Rift = 461 PPI
HTC Vive Pro = 615 PPI
Samsung Odyssey+ = 1233 PPI (level)

Actually Samsung Odyssey+ is 616 PPI like the Vive Pro, but some magic happens according to Samsung:


Limitless Viewing Experience

With exclusive, evolutionary, SDE-minimizing Samsung display technology, users can perceive a 1,233ppi-level resolution. A 3.5" advanced Anti-SDE Dual AMOLED display lets you experience incredibly immersive mixed reality, and break down the boundaries between the real and the virtual.

9jb3383mvym0.jpg


Looks interesting though, could be simply awesome for movies and Netflix, we'll see when the first reviews arrive - more info here:

https://www.samsung.com/hk_en/hmd/hmd-plus-xe800zba-hc1/

Some other improvements - design looks much like a copy of the Rift:

a5gb54dsw523.jpg

k51xqnacsbs1.jpg

by0be645p43a.jpg

85tbfy1a79ab.jpg

t1dyuuhmp5lw.jpg

It does actually look quite impressive - still those controllers look awful compared to Touch. Given enough time to evolve, Samsung may be a very serious contender, in fact Samsung could evolve to deserve a new logo!

wp5oennqvbip.jpg

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

205 REPLIES 205

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

B33rNut said:
I was home for thanksgiving and with 5 family members and 3 generations all trying it out and it didn't fit anyone. You either had the red forehead damage or forehead and nose. No-one was able to do anything for more than 15mins of demoing. Like ok this is fun but get this thing off my head. 



You're not exactly making it easy to convince myself to pay twice the amount for the Odyssey+ compared to US citizens - plus having to give up the possibility to return it if it doesn't fit...  :s 

BTW, I found out what's Samsung's main problem! - I found the dude Samsung used as a model to optimize Odyssey+ ergonomics! 

asm4rr69jqyq.jpg

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

pyroth309
Visionary
WTF how'd you find my pic!

On a serious note, i have a normal enough shaped head, it's just a larger one because I'm 6'4 lol. Size matters!

PhoenixSpyder
Rising Star
Rotfl......

I'm noticing that the Rift with SS maxed is nearly as good as the O+ for visuals...other than the SDE...which disappears immediately on the Rift after getting use to it. I installed Revive and ran a couple of Oculus games on the O+ and while it was awesome...it didn't have the same wow factor as when I first got the Rift. I think Oculus wants to bring the 'wow' factor again when they release the next PC-HMD...maybe that's why it's taking a bit longer!!! A small increase in resolution isn't enough for that to happen imo. Mind you I'll take it if they provide it!!!

i7 8700k; 5ghz (water cooled), Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, Corsair 270R case, EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra, 32 GB Corsair Veng DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, 1TB M.2 SSD, Adata Su800 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, BarraCuda 2TB HD, Toshiba 3tB HD, Rift (dead), Rift S, Win 10 Pro 2004, Inateck KT4006 USB3.0

pyroth309
Visionary


Rotfl......

I'm noticing that the Rift with SS maxed is nearly as good as the O+ for visuals...other than the SDE...which disappears immediately on the Rift after getting use to it. I installed Revive and ran a couple of Oculus games on the O+ and while it was awesome...it didn't have the same wow factor as when I first got the Rift. I think Oculus wants to bring the 'wow' factor again when they release the next PC-HMD...maybe that's why it's taking a bit longer!!! A small increase in resolution isn't enough for that to happen imo. Mind you I'll take it if they provide it!!!


Yea, if you push the rift to its limits, the difference isn't big for me. The only wow factor of the odyssey is having more color, clear graphics at short range, and being able to watch movies without SDE annoyances/god rays. Because of the blur, the resolution difference is pretty minor. I've compared how far I can see in games and read text and it's almost insignificantly farther in the O+. And as we've already beat to death, several games have problems in the O+ that the rift doesn't have. 

ASW is an advantage for the Rift right now since you can supersample a higher percentage. I think WMR will get steam's new Motion Smoothing tech eventually which will even that gap some but I haven't really noticed much difference when I supersample 140 or 180 other than the FPS dropping. I still need to do an extreme test and see how graphics look with like 300% supersample to see if it's even worth messing with. 

Also this is a great post on it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/9z997a/psa_new_samsung_odyssey_owners_check_your/

*edit* I was looking at it wrong. 

RuneSR2
Grand Champion


Rotfl......

I'm noticing that the Rift with SS maxed is nearly as good as the O+ for visuals...other than the SDE...which disappears immediately on the Rift after getting use to it. I installed Revive and ran a couple of Oculus games on the O+ and while it was awesome...it didn't have the same wow factor as when I first got the Rift. I think Oculus wants to bring the 'wow' factor again when they release the next PC-HMD...maybe that's why it's taking a bit longer!!! A small increase in resolution isn't enough for that to happen imo. Mind you I'll take it if they provide it!!!



I know it's subjective, but last evening I tried to make a fun experiment with the Rift ss 1.6 (Seeking Dawn) to 2.0 (other games) just trying to get an idea of perceived depth. I really don't have a problem with depth perception using the Rift - I feel I can see at least 50 meters away - probably even more in for example Evasion - without feeling that distant objects appear blurry. But of course the SDE does have it's impact and becomes a large part of small distant objects. In short, as long as high levels of ss is possible on the Rift, I really don't have any issues with depth perception. 
Also perceived sharpness and perceived depth are two different things - I guess it's fair to assume that O+ is about 80% sharper than the Rift - when comparing native Rift res to native O+ res. But it doesn't mean you can zoom out without losing image quality 80% more on the O+. If fact increased depth is much less - after a rather long article comparing image sharpness vs. depth (in Quake and Serious Sam) we found:

Increase in perceived sharpness = (Image1 height x width in pixels) / (image2 height x width in pixels). In this case O+ could be 1 and Rift could 2 - rather straight forward. Anti-SDE may of course increase perceived image quality even further in this case - maybe. 

But when you increase the resolution in 3D games, you also increase the depth, although depth works differently:

Increase in depth = ((image1 height x width in pixels) / (image2 height x width in pixels))^0.5. Note that ^0.5 is the same as the square root. 

This explain why 80% res increase only results in about 30% increased depth. And that may explain why, as noted in this thread, that going from Rift to O+ doesn't provide much extra depth perception. But image sharpness ought to be a lot better - when comparing native O+ res vs. native Rift res (thus keeping ss out of the picture ;-).

So this is how far you can zoom out while maintaining perfect texture quality in Quake in 320x200:



And this is how far you can zoom out while maintaining perfect texture quality in Quake in 640x480:



Thus 4 x increase in res is equal to 2 x increase in depth. 

Source: http://www.hardwaretidende.dk/hard/artikel/03/03/27/6654828 (text in Danish)

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

pyroth309
Visionary
@RuneSR2 That makes sense. It's also hard to do an objective 1 to 1 comparison for me because I have to unhook and then swap headsets. I kinda wish I had a second VR capable PC handy to do some hot swaps almost instantly for a more accurate comparison between the two. Significant time passes by the time I get swapped. 

The only game I've attempted to run at 200% SS was Skyrim and it's got some Blur problems so it didn't really lead to any conclusions. I need to find a neutral graphical game that is optimized and works well for both headsets on SteamVR and that has a lot of detail that Supersampling would stand out on to do a decent comparison. Any suggestions welcomed on that.

PhoenixSpyder
Rising Star

pyroth309 said:



Rotfl......

I'm noticing that the Rift with SS maxed is nearly as good as the O+ for visuals...other than the SDE...which disappears immediately on the Rift after getting use to it. I installed Revive and ran a couple of Oculus games on the O+ and while it was awesome...it didn't have the same wow factor as when I first got the Rift. I think Oculus wants to bring the 'wow' factor again when they release the next PC-HMD...maybe that's why it's taking a bit longer!!! A small increase in resolution isn't enough for that to happen imo. Mind you I'll take it if they provide it!!!


Yea, if you push the rift to its limits, the difference isn't big for me. The only wow factor of the odyssey is having more color, clear graphics at short range, and being able to watch movies without SDE annoyances/god rays. Because of the blur, the resolution difference is pretty minor. I've compared how far I can see in games and read text and it's almost insignificantly farther in the O+. And as we've already beat to death, several games have problems in the O+ that the rift doesn't have. 

ASW is an advantage for the Rift right now since you can supersample a higher percentage. I think WMR will get steam's new Motion Smoothing tech eventually which will even that gap some but I haven't really noticed much difference when I supersample 140 or 180 other than the FPS dropping. I still need to do an extreme test and see how graphics look with like 300% supersample to see if it's even worth messing with. 

Also this is a great post on it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/9z997a/psa_new_samsung_odyssey_owners_check_your/

*edit* I was looking at it wrong. 




Steam VR says 200% recommended for the O+ on my 1080ti - 8700k system. On my 980ti - 4690K system it says 152% for the O+.

I've tried the 300% in Skyrim VR on the O+ and did see a bit less anti-aliasing but the fps got a bit choppy when I moved around my followers, but probably only because I'm running 4k textures on all my 4 followers...LOL!!! Everything else did seem to be still smooth though for fps. I then tried 400%, and that made anti-aliasing even better but the fps dropped quite a bit on everything and the jerkiness isn't worth it.

i7 8700k; 5ghz (water cooled), Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, Corsair 270R case, EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra, 32 GB Corsair Veng DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, 1TB M.2 SSD, Adata Su800 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, BarraCuda 2TB HD, Toshiba 3tB HD, Rift (dead), Rift S, Win 10 Pro 2004, Inateck KT4006 USB3.0

PhoenixSpyder
Rising Star

RuneSR2 said:



Rotfl......

I'm noticing that the Rift with SS maxed is nearly as good as the O+ for visuals...other than the SDE...which disappears immediately on the Rift after getting use to it. I installed Revive and ran a couple of Oculus games on the O+ and while it was awesome...it didn't have the same wow factor as when I first got the Rift. I think Oculus wants to bring the 'wow' factor again when they release the next PC-HMD...maybe that's why it's taking a bit longer!!! A small increase in resolution isn't enough for that to happen imo. Mind you I'll take it if they provide it!!!



I know it's subjective, but last evening I tried to make a fun experiment with the Rift ss 1.6 (Seeking Dawn) to 2.0 (other games) just trying to get an idea of perceived depth. I really don't have a problem with depth perception using the Rift - I feel I can see at least 50 meters away - probably even more in for example Evasion - without feeling that distant objects appear blurry. But of course the SDE does have it's impact and becomes a large part of small distant objects. In short, as long as high levels of ss is possible on the Rift, I really don't have any issues with depth perception. 
Also perceived sharpness and perceived depth are two different things - I guess it's fair to assume that O+ is about 80% sharper than the Rift - when comparing native Rift res to native O+ res. But it doesn't mean you can zoom out without losing image quality 80% more on the O+. If fact increased depth is much less - after a rather long article comparing image sharpness vs. depth (in Quake and Serious Sam) we found:

Increase in perceived sharpness = (Image1 height x width in pixels) / (image2 height x width in pixels). In this case O+ could be 1 and Rift could 2 - rather straight forward. Anti-SDE may of course increase perceived image quality even further in this case - maybe. 

But when you increase the resolution in 3D games, you also increase the depth, although depth works differently:

Increase in depth = ((image1 height x width in pixels) / (image2 height x width in pixels))^0.5. Note that ^0.5 is the same as the square root. 

This explain why 80% res increase only results in about 30% increased depth. And that may explain why, as noted in this thread, that going from Rift to O+ doesn't provide much extra depth perception. But image sharpness ought to be a lot better - when comparing native O+ res vs. native Rift res (thus keeping ss out of the picture ;-).

So this is how far you can zoom out while maintaining perfect texture quality in Quake in 320x200:



And this is how far you can zoom out while maintaining perfect texture quality in Quake in 640x480:



Thus 4 x increase in res is equal to 2 x increase in depth. 

Source: http://www.hardwaretidende.dk/hard/artikel/03/03/27/6654828 (text in Danish)



This totally makes sense.

i7 8700k; 5ghz (water cooled), Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, Corsair 270R case, EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra, 32 GB Corsair Veng DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, 1TB M.2 SSD, Adata Su800 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, BarraCuda 2TB HD, Toshiba 3tB HD, Rift (dead), Rift S, Win 10 Pro 2004, Inateck KT4006 USB3.0

pyroth309
Visionary



pyroth309 said:



Rotfl......

I'm noticing that the Rift with SS maxed is nearly as good as the O+ for visuals...other than the SDE...which disappears immediately on the Rift after getting use to it. I installed Revive and ran a couple of Oculus games on the O+ and while it was awesome...it didn't have the same wow factor as when I first got the Rift. I think Oculus wants to bring the 'wow' factor again when they release the next PC-HMD...maybe that's why it's taking a bit longer!!! A small increase in resolution isn't enough for that to happen imo. Mind you I'll take it if they provide it!!!


Yea, if you push the rift to its limits, the difference isn't big for me. The only wow factor of the odyssey is having more color, clear graphics at short range, and being able to watch movies without SDE annoyances/god rays. Because of the blur, the resolution difference is pretty minor. I've compared how far I can see in games and read text and it's almost insignificantly farther in the O+. And as we've already beat to death, several games have problems in the O+ that the rift doesn't have. 

ASW is an advantage for the Rift right now since you can supersample a higher percentage. I think WMR will get steam's new Motion Smoothing tech eventually which will even that gap some but I haven't really noticed much difference when I supersample 140 or 180 other than the FPS dropping. I still need to do an extreme test and see how graphics look with like 300% supersample to see if it's even worth messing with. 

Also this is a great post on it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/9z997a/psa_new_samsung_odyssey_owners_check_your/

*edit* I was looking at it wrong. 




Steam VR says 200% recommended for the O+ on my 1080ti - 8700k system. On my 980ti - 4690K system it says 152% for the O+.

I've tried the 300% in Skyrim VR on the O+ and did see a bit less anti-aliasing but the fps got a bit choppy when I moved around my followers, but probably only because I'm running 4k textures on all my 4 followers...LOL!!! Everything else did seem to be still smooth though for fps. I then tried 400%, and that made anti-aliasing even better but the fps dropped quite a bit on everything and the jerkiness isn't worth it.


Yea, I think Skyrim is a really bad game to test it on because of the blur.

PhoenixSpyder
Rising Star
I'm not quite sure what I did (spent 1/2 the day tweaking things in the ini's for Skyrim VR) but I got Skyrim VR looking nearly as good on the O+ as the Rift. Still a tiny bit of aliasing but nowhere near as bad as it was. It's actually pleasant to look at now. Problem is, now the performance isn't where I want it to be. In most places I get 90fps, but when I go to somewhere like Falkreath my fps tanks and things get quite jerky. On the Rift I do get some fps issues in Falkreath but not to this extent. I think it's the extra res of the O+ but I have to do more research. When I go back to using the Rift the game looks incredible (SDE really stands out though compared to O+) and my performance is liquid smooth everywhere.

I also think the performance difference presently is due to not using Steam VR on the Rift but using OpenOVR instead. I wish OpenOVR worked with the O+ but as far as I know it's only designed to work with Oculus software.

One thing I do know I did was force AF to 16x in Global in the Nvidia Control panel. That seemed to make distant textures more clear. I did tweak a bunch of ini's for tree's to. I'll try to figure out what I did and post the results later. Looks like there is hope in makes Skyrim VR look like it does no the Rift after all.

i7 8700k; 5ghz (water cooled), Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, Corsair 270R case, EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra, 32 GB Corsair Veng DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, 1TB M.2 SSD, Adata Su800 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, BarraCuda 2TB HD, Toshiba 3tB HD, Rift (dead), Rift S, Win 10 Pro 2004, Inateck KT4006 USB3.0