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Aliens - Fact Or Fiction..?

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,412 Power Poster
    snowdog said:
    I never said that we had started teleporting humans, I only mentioned atoms. But teleporting atoms isn't a million miles away from teleporting human beings which are made up of loads of the things lol. We won't be teleporting humans for quite some time but they have said that it's theoretically possible the last I heard. We're not too far away from it and interstellar space travel happening.

    I would say that teleporting atoms is a million miles away from: Breaking atoms apart, sending them to another location, and then reconstructing them perfectly. Big difference!

    One other thing you may want to take into account is the possibility that Fred The Alien may have considerably different elements on his planet compared to ours that might make folding space easier. Who knows?

    Sure I would agree that new elements are most certainly possible! Of course, hydrogen is the first element, and both hydrogen and helium are the most abundant elements in the universe.

    But the real problem here is: Evolution. Because Evolution is a race against Time since life on any Planet - even Earth - is always facing a mass extinction event.

    Let's imagine that a planet does exist out in the Universe that was perfect. It was built to sustain life and the solar system was 100% free of any cataclysmic events. This planet would likely never contain actual human-like creatures... because the lack of cataclysmic events means that only predators on both land and sea would thrive.

    Without the cataclysmic event to wipe them out, Evolution would simply allow them to continue evolving as predators; advanced "brain" development doesn't happen in these situations because predatory instinct is the dominant trait. If we look at our history of life on Earth, there have been mass extinction events in both land and sea. These events are what give rise to the evolution of more "intelligent" beings, like the Octopus and Humans.

    Introducing new elements shouldn't change the evolutionary cycle in such a way that intelligent beings evolve faster than predatory beings. Afterall, both types of beings require the same planetary environment to thrive. When it comes to evolution, there are no shortcuts (at least not in the early stages). Every planet begins as a dust particle, and all life begins as a single-celled organism.

    My point is that intelligent life on any planet requires a cataclysmic event to wipe out predatory instinct creatures, which in turn allows the more physically inferior intelligent creatures to continue evolving. The intelligent brain needs a lot of time and coddling in order to evolve.

    So we would have to believe that another planet had just the right cataclysmic events happening at just the right time, and then paused long enough to allow an advanced alien species to rise up and conquer its own solar system; and possibly conquer multi-dimensional travel!

    If we really think about it... we're just describing ourselves.

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,412 Power Poster
    Digikid1 said:
    snowdog said:
    FACT. All we need is warp drives and we've got EVERYTHING they have in Star Trek. :o
    Err....nope.  Artificial Gravity?  Dampening Fields so that we don't go SPLAT on the bulkheads? Photon Torpedoes?  Phasers?
    Plus, this thing:


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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,512 Power Poster
    Digikid1 said:
    snowdog said:
    FACT. All we need is warp drives and we've got EVERYTHING they have in Star Trek. :o
    Err....nope.  Artificial Gravity?  Dampening Fields so that we don't go SPLAT on the bulkheads? Photon Torpedoes?  Phasers?

    Well 1 out of 4 (lasers as weapons) isn't too shabby, particularly when you take into account we now have needle-free injections, the beginnings of teleportation and the beginnings of the Holodeck. Won't be long before we have the rest of it. I'll give it 200 years tops.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,512 Power Poster
    That's why it's the BEGINNINGS of teleportation. Once you can accurately and safely teleport atoms it becomes theoretically possible to teleport more of them at once, including scattering them and rebuilding them at the other end. They won't be doing this any time soon, of course, but I'd be VERY disappointed if they don't have that nailed in a couple of hundred years at the most.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,412 Power Poster
    edited January 5
    snowdog said:
    That's why it's the BEGINNINGS of teleportation. Once you can accurately and safely teleport atoms it becomes theoretically possible to teleport more of them at once, including scattering them and rebuilding them at the other end.
    But you can't just say "including scattering them and rebuilding them on the other end" as if that is somehow a default result of moving them around. That couldn't be further from the truth.
    Besides, it's not just atoms that need to be reconstructed but also molecules (entire molecular structures). We are millions of miles away from that.

    Now, I found a source that says we teleported a photon in to space. That's quite different! And even in the article about this, the scientist involved says the following:
    "To construct an entire human being from scratch — to say nothing about whether that human being at the destination is even the same person as the one you began with at the source — is a different problem entirely,"
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/science/2017/07/13/beam-me-up-scientists-teleport-1st-object-ever-earth-into-space/475713001/

    I also found something about teleporting an Atom 3 meters, but they admit that moving a human is "a long way off."

    To give an analogy, we have been able to put humans inside cars for a long time. They can be drivers or passengers. Now, imagine if science said, "Now that we can put humans inside a car we are close to turning humans INTO cars."

    I mean, how close are we to becoming a car since we're already sitting in it? It's just a matter of changing our molecular structure!
    :o

    Taking 3 Lego blocks from one room in to another room may be similar to moving a single Lego structure that is made up of multiple Lego blocks. But it doesn't work that way with molecular structures. Moving a single atom doesn't equate to moving a collection of Atoms and Molecules.
    As for a prediction of 100-200 years... well, remember that humans have been on Earth for over 65 million years. Everything we have accomplished is great, but it sure has taken a very long time lol
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,512 Power Poster
    I didn't for a second suggest it would be EASY but the way that technology moves these days I can't see it taking more than 200 years. There were some rumours a while back I seem to remember that one of the world's governments had managed to teleport an apple successfully years ago, might have been the Russians or Chinese, can't remember now. Could be an urban myth though?
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,412 Power Poster
    snowdog said:
    I didn't for a second suggest it would be EASY but the way that technology moves these days I can't see it taking more than 200 years. There were some rumours a while back I seem to remember that one of the world's governments had managed to teleport an apple successfully years ago, might have been the Russians or Chinese, can't remember now. Could be an urban myth though?
    Okay well can you at least start citing articles and studies? You keep referencing things that you kinda remember and might be real or fake lol

    This is your topic, bro, set the stage for some actual insight! This is one of the laziest approaches to an Alien discussion, for reals yo...

    "Aliens are real because Aliens are real, plus rumors about tech. Also, reverse engineering."
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,512 Power Poster
    I'm glad to say that I'm not the only one that remembers it. I did a search earlier and saw it mentioned here by a couple of people:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Glitch_in_the_Matrix/comments/3he0p3/apple_teleportation/

    I've also previously experienced The Mandela Effect and have done since the late 70s and early 80s. :o
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,127 Valuable Player
    edited January 7
    Something else I can't quite wrap my head around when it comes to Ufo's and Aliens. When you google this subject you come across a lot of stories about large numbers of Military/Pilots/Police seeing Ufo's. You would think that would be enough to convince people something is going on, but it somehow just gets dismissed as not been real and this seems to get excepted.

    So are these people who are trained to have a good eye making up these stories, or are their stories been covered up? What's really strange is the cover up stories always sound a bit silly, but the actual encounter these people have sounds quite legit. 

    Do you think the cover up stories are meant to be silly on purpose? Because if it was a really good cover up story it might get people thinking that's a cover up too :D  


  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,103 Valuable Player
    edited January 6

    I have a feeling the military observations are choreographed for when they think secret test aircraft have been spotted.

    The same tactic can be applied for illicit extra-marital shenanigans. If you think you've been spotted, post a YouTube vid claiming aliens are impersonating us and you just saw one that looks like you... but it couldn't have been you cos it was kissing someone other than your partner, thereby proving that the second alien hasn't yet mastered the art of mimicry.

    100% guaranteed to work.

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,512 Power Poster
    I reckon there are definitely cover ups. I agree that some of these sightings may be experimental new aircraft but among the 5% are plenty of reports from pilots etc that insist what they're seeing can't be explained by being secret aircraft because the movement in the air and/or the speed these things travel and move at aren't possible by anything human made.

    Most of these things (95%) can be explained by natural weather phenomena or aircraft but there's always that 5% that can't be explained.
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  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 1,492
    Project 2501
    They are told to keep quiet or lose their careers. 
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,512 Power Poster
    I'm still hoping that Trump is going to spill the beans on everything before he gets impeached or maybe after it happens in a fit of pique lol

    There's definitely been something going on at Area 51 since the 50s.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,512 Power Poster
    Talking of Area 51, this video is probably a COMPLETE load of old bollocks. Before I started watching it I thought I'd probably end up giving up on it about 5 or 10 minutes in but this guy is quite funny and tells a good story so I ended up watching all of it:



    Most likely all nonsense but it's entertaining to watch lol
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,412 Power Poster
    edited January 7
    Cover up's and threats to lose careers aren't enough to keep everyone quiet around the world. People can't even keep quiet during an arms race between nations:

    The cover up's for UFO's tend to be military and government related, from programs here on Earth. There is always a misconception that the term "UFO" somehow automatically means an object that came from outside of Earth. But that's not the case. Any object that hasn't been identified and is flying... is a UFO. And the descriptions are always the same, "the flying object was doing things that no other known spacecraft can do." And that's the key phrase 'known spacecraft.' The idea that the general public is always being made aware of every single type of aircraft built by both governments and corporations is silly. The general public is always last to know.

    It's not just governments building weapons and vehicles any more either. It's corporations! Corporations run the world; corporations run governments. Think Deus Ex here lol

    That being said, we do get people from the government speaking out and being a bit "vague" about whether Aliens from another planet exist. Like this fella:


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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,412 Power Poster
    edited January 8
    I like Tyson's commentary on the same footage. It's important to remember that there's money involved in "studying UFO's." In this case, it was over $20 million dollars.

    Hell, if you give me just 1 million dollars I will delete all my posts in this thread and start posting compelling evidence that Aliens exist. Believe it!



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  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,379 Poster of the Week
    Well snow there was a nuke powered rocket tyat has been confirmed.
    As far as a massive underground facility with a sentient space craft inside of it at the Tonapah test range.
    Would be cool but yea that place sucks to much for this story to be real.
    WAAAGH!
  • RattyUKRattyUK Posts: 507
    Neo
    In the entire length of this thread the conversation has revolved around 'human' aliens - I suppose considering non-carbon based life forms to be too far into sci-fi?  Why assume that the only 'intelligent' life must be humanoid?
    It has made fun reading nonetheless :)
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,127 Valuable Player
    edited January 8

    I have a feeling the military observations are choreographed for when they think secret test aircraft have been spotted.


    The thing is though these Ufo's have been seen for over 50yrs doing these manoeuvres. So if this tech is 50 yrs old, then why are we not seeing it used in our skies today, why still the jet engine 50 years on? Also, if there is a Human pilot inside would the GS not kill them? If they are manned the most a fighter pilot can withstand without passing out is around 9G. That's not to say they don't have something within the craft to counter the GS, but what would it be if it was a secret manned craft?

    The problem with all this though is, it's mainly people just talking about these things without taking real good video footage that proves it. 


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,412 Power Poster
    RedRizla said:

    I have a feeling the military observations are choreographed for when they think secret test aircraft have been spotted.


    The thing is though these Ufo's have been seen for over 50yrs doing these manoeuvres. So if this tech is 50 yrs old, then why are we not seeing it used in our skies today, why still the jet engine 50 years on? Also, if there is a Human pilot inside would the GS not kill them? If they are manned the most a fighter pilot can withstand without passing out is around 9G. That's not to say they don't have something within the craft to counter the GS, but what would that be if it was a secret manned craft?

    The problem with all this though is, it's mainly people just talking about these things without taking real good video footage that proves it. 


    Can you cite a specific one that is 50 years old? I'm curious to know which you are referring too.

    And these crafts are used in our skies today, both as manned and unmanned craft.

    The F-22 Raptor is one of our finest:


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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,412 Power Poster
    RattyUK said:
    In the entire length of this thread the conversation has revolved around 'human' aliens - I suppose considering non-carbon based life forms to be too far into sci-fi?  Why assume that the only 'intelligent' life must be humanoid?
    It has made fun reading nonetheless :)
    I try to say Human-like to leave it open for interpretation. I'm not sure what word to use to describe a species that is capable of the intelligence required to leave their planet, solar system, and galaxy. And if we go by the footage we see from UFO sightings, they are just building spacecraft that isn't very different than our own.

    Since the Universe is full of Carbon, and it's the building block for everything (as far as we know), then the idea of a non-carbon-based life form does seem Sci-Fi. At least if we're trying to say that they came from a planet in our Carbon-based Universe.

    A non-carbon-based life-form would have to come from another dimension; we're going in to multi-verse territory here. I am open to that since our understanding of Dark Matter supports the theory. But if the life-form is going to come from our existing carbon-based Universe, then it probably is going to be carbon-based.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,127 Valuable Player
    edited January 8
    Zenbane said:
    RedRizla said:

    I have a feeling the military observations are choreographed for when they think secret test aircraft have been spotted.


    The thing is though these Ufo's have been seen for over 50yrs doing these manoeuvres. So if this tech is 50 yrs old, then why are we not seeing it used in our skies today, why still the jet engine 50 years on? Also, if there is a Human pilot inside would the GS not kill them? If they are manned the most a fighter pilot can withstand without passing out is around 9G. That's not to say they don't have something within the craft to counter the GS, but what would that be if it was a secret manned craft?

    The problem with all this though is, it's mainly people just talking about these things without taking real good video footage that proves it. 


    Can you cite a specific one that is 50 years old? I'm curious to know which you are referring too.



    Here's something that was regular seen by pilots in World War 2. Probably a phenomena unknown to use, but gets called a Ufo because it's unknown and flying. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter

    https://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/what-were-mysterious-foo-fighters-sighted-ww2-night-flyers-180959847/
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,412 Power Poster
    edited January 8
    Ah yes, the Foo Fighters!

    The Wiki has some good explanations to it. Here's a fun video on the topic:

    I like the report from the one fighter pilot whose plane blew up. Afterwards he claimed that a Foo Fighter was chasing him and that's why he had to eject.

    Reminds me of that story with the 3 men who claimed an Alien abduction. And upon further investigation we find out that those men were about to miss their work contract deadline. How convenient that an alien showed up to abduct them the day before they were about to miss the deadline!

    However, those are a lot of reports from around the globe about these Foo Fighters. Not easily dismissed. I will point out that eye-witness reports do not show them coming from outer space. They explicitly state that they come from the ground here on Earth. They rise up, follow planes, and then fly back down to Earth.

    My personal theory? They were Angels. Or maybe Demons.

    I mean, if intergalactic Alien species traveling across the cosmos exist, then why not Angels and Demons? They could be beings from another Dimension! I am honestly more compelled to believe that these are Angels and Demons because they showed up during a time of War. They were attracted to Death and Destruction.

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,512 Power Poster
    Well they reckon that if Fred The Alien isn't carbon-based he's silicon-based:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_types_of_biochemistry

    But like I've mentioned before Fred's planet or solar system may be host to a shitload of elements that we don't have over here. Carbon and Hydrogen are common throughout the galaxy apparently but Fredmium might be in abundance elsewhere in the Milky Way. B)
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • BrixmisBrixmis Posts: 2,171
    Project 2501
    Latest on the subject from the BimBo C:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46811618





  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,103 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:

    I have a feeling the military observations are choreographed for when they think secret test aircraft have been spotted.


    The thing is though these Ufo's have been seen for over 50yrs doing these manoeuvres.
    I'm guessing that's roughly the same amount of time that sci-fi has been firing up people's imaginations.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,127 Valuable Player
    edited January 10
    Brixmis said:
    Latest on the subject from the BimBo C:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46811618


    I thought 1.5 billion light years away was quite a distance, that is until I saw that the Universe is supposed to be around 93 billion light years in diameter. I wonder how long it would take for use to receive a signal sent from 1.5 billion light years away. I mean from when it's first sent to then receiving it here on earth..
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,512 Power Poster
    RedRizla said:

    I have a feeling the military observations are choreographed for when they think secret test aircraft have been spotted.


    The thing is though these Ufo's have been seen for over 50yrs doing these manoeuvres.
    I'm guessing that's roughly the same amount of time that sci-fi has been firing up people's imaginations.

    Nope. That's been happening since the late 1800s! :o

    There was a big influx of books and films from the 50s onwards, particularly in the US, but those were inspired by the Roswell incident in 1947.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,103 Valuable Player
    edited January 9
    I notice the first reported alien abduction happened 2 years after The Twighlight Zone started airing.

    Edit: I bought myself the boxset on blu-ray just before Christmas and thoughrouly recommend it. Great old show, Rod Serling's a great story teller. They include the ads that appear straight after the show, including a couple of Rod promoting the cigarettes he smokes, innocent times!
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