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New subnautica sub zero ... VR dropped.

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Comments

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,771 Valuable Player
    ohgrant said:
     I have confidence that it will remain a niche market just like 3D is and always will be. What I regard as silly are those that are into it because it's the current fad.  

    When you talk about 3D, it just became to expensive for the film industry to make all films like Avatar 3D. VR can be vastly improved upon with things like resolution, which is one of most gripes about VR right now. I also think VR will boom in 10 years time because it will be totally different from what we are seeing today. What is not to like about VR, if it has higher resolution screens and things like foveated rendering etc? 
  • ohgrantohgrant Posts: 203
    Nexus 6
       I see no angry posts or folks judging what others choose to play except one. I say kudos and salute to those that vote with their purchases on what is a good game to them. Personally Subnautica is not my type of game and would not have it in VR if it wasn't free in the first place. It is their choice not not to invest in VR and I'm OK with it. 
     I quit buying pancake games a few years back. I could play them in 3D or VR with Vorpx, but the trend for so many game franchises that I use to play is multiplayer only, no content or controller options. When those games fail on PC, there is nothing to do but wait and hope players show up. Most of those games are over 50 GB. 
     Judge others all you want, your perception of a good game is not mine. If it doesn't work in VR, it has no value to me and would just cost money and SSD space. 
     Kudos to the Subnautica devs that decided to port the game in VR in the first place to at least test it out.  
  • Nekto2Nekto2 Posts: 270
    Nexus 6
    edited February 3
    ohgrant said:
    When those games fail on PC, there is nothing to do but wait and hope players show up.
    Will you pay for players?
    If there will be startup to allow you to pay people for playing with you will you pay for that? What amount?
    It could boost VR development if some people could earn money on playing multiplayer games.
    And you will be able to select "no children", "no hard language", "I should win" ;)
  • Nekto2Nekto2 Posts: 270
    Nexus 6
    RedRizla said:
    When you talk about 3D, it just became to expensive for the film industry to make all films like Avatar 3D.
    Not at all.
    Now we have almost any film in 3D (at cinemas only! not on TV).
    Most of them are "fake 3D" conversion. But who cares. None could see the difference.
    You could not show same 3D content in cinema and on TV. But you could in VR cinema :)
  • Nekto2Nekto2 Posts: 270
    Nexus 6
    snowdog said:
    For that to happen the cost of adoption is going to have to come down and there's going to have to be adoption by the film and other entertainment industries such as sport.
    Or you should learn to pay more for VR content :)
    It could be Kickstarter campaign. VR community will pay enough money before company will start VR game development.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,771 Valuable Player
    edited February 3
    Nekto2 said:
    RedRizla said:
    When you talk about 3D, it just became to expensive for the film industry to make all films like Avatar 3D.
    Not at all.
    Now we have almost any film in 3D (at cinemas only! not on TV).
    Most of them are "fake 3D" conversion. But who cares. None could see the difference.
    You could not show same 3D content in cinema and on TV. But you could in VR cinema :)

    Not sure why you said: "Not at all". All I was saying is it became expensive to make 3D films like Avatar, which is only one of the reasons why 3D didn't work out and sell to the masses. If you can't see the difference between fake 3D and a film done properly in 3D, then all I can say say is that's good for you. I can tell by a mile it's just fake 3D and it looks crap most of the time depending on the movie..
  • ohgrantohgrant Posts: 203
    Nexus 6
    Nekto2 said:
    ohgrant said:
    When those games fail on PC, there is nothing to do but wait and hope players show up.
    Will you pay for players?
    If there will be startup to allow you to pay people for playing with you will you pay for that? What amount?
    It could boost VR development if some people could earn money on playing multiplayer games.
    And you will be able to select "no children", "no hard language", "I should win" ;)
     No, I wouldn't. I will buy games that have better offline content and avoid buying any multi player only games. Right now I find most VR games a better bang for the buck because most have good offline content. For the few VR games I've tried online, I've found games and players quicker and had much less lag then I have with my last 4 EA/Origin purchases
  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 227
    Nexus 6
    Like I said in one of my prior posts, a pancake game needs to have an extremely compelling reason for me to buy it and play it or it's a 'no buy' for me. Metro Exodus will probably be one of those pancake games regardless of it being 'Epic store only' (though I my not buy it right away due to my obvious preference for VR). On a similar note, having another game store front doesn't bother me...I just disable it from running in the background anyway...so it won't be robbing my system of a bit of resources...LOL!!!

    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 32 GB Corsair Veng DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, 1TB M.2 SSD, Adata Su800 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, BarraCuda 2TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1903
    "Presently developing a VR project (outside of my profession) due to the lack of availability of what I would like to experience" Details in a year or two...
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,771 Valuable Player
    edited February 3
    I'm currently playing Red Dead Redemption 2 on the PS4 and this game is compelling enough for me to play. I've been really enjoying some 2D gaming recently and if Read Dead Redemption 2 comes to PC, then you'll be in for a treat. The games bloody great. I've been playing it for hours and I'm only 14% of the game played..
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,150 Valuable Player
    Well I'm not angry. You can tell when I'M angry cos I always write Oculus a letter.

    Flat games just don't do it for me any more. I haven't even played the new Zelda, which is REALLY saying something! :o
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • jamisonmillerjamisonmiller Posts: 42
    Brain Burst
    I didn't buy subnautica bas game as it did not come with touch. otherwise what is the point of it in VR if you can't interact with your environment??? 

    So this new being non-VR doesn't effect me at all, not until the old version gets updated at least. 
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,086 Valuable Player
    I didn't buy subnautica bas game as it did not come with touch. otherwise what is the point of it in VR if you can't interact with your environment??? 

    So this new being non-VR doesn't effect me at all, not until the old version gets updated at least. 
    So if not interacting with your environment kills it for you then you are not wrong to not buy it, however for me there is still a MASSIVE point of the game being in vr, the sense of scale and in just being there i still found incredible.

    however that said, the menu system being so close to your face made it made it unplayable for me on a practical level - if i played it on a monitor 1st so i knew what i was doing i could probably get by, but, like Alien isolation i just dont want to play it not in VR after having a taste of what it could be in VR.... so for me both subnautica and AI have FAR less play than they other wise would have.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • nroskonrosko Posts: 954
    Neo
    In not too upset about this because I don't think it's going to be much different to the first game. I still like pancakes just as well as they are generally a higher standard and quality but I not be picking this game up as it isnt much of an innovation over the first. There is a good mod for subnaughtica that helps with vr menu and gui for those still playing if.
    I'm more disappointed about dirt rally 2s lack of VR support. 
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 2,059 Valuable Player
    Nekto2 said:
    RedRizla said:
    When you talk about 3D, it just became to expensive for the film industry to make all films like Avatar 3D.
    Not at all.
    Now we have almost any film in 3D (at cinemas only! not on TV).
    Most of them are "fake 3D" conversion. But who cares. None can see the difference. 
    Wha.....errr....WRONG. That is so laughably wrong that it is simply hilarious. 

    Try OPENING their eyes....that may help. 

    ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
  • JD-UKJD-UK Posts: 2,294 Valuable Player
    tbh all this "if it hasn't got VR I won't play it" and people making angry posts is just reminiscent of a child 

    You have that vision of a child only because you're trying to bring down our opinion ; which is just plain lame btw.
    We say we won't buy it because we're simply not interested in the flat version, I don't see what's childish here.

    Besides, there's the obvious reason that flat gaming is not immersive at all compared to VR. The strong point of Subnautica is its immersive world, hence not using VR is a huge mistake. It's not about opinion here: VR enhances immersion, and Subnautica is all about immersion, so it should use VR. If it doesn't, it may be good, but it definitely won't be as good as it could be.

    Also, just because we don't intend to buy the game doesn't mean we're angry.
    You're missng the point (deliberately? who knows...). I'm not saying that about anyone - the point I am making is the way people are refusing to buy any game that isn't VR.




  • JD-UKJD-UK Posts: 2,294 Valuable Player
    Anyway - excuse me not responding to any more provocations, this thread is uninteresting to me now.




  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,279 Volunteer Moderator

    I found this thread quite interesting but not surprising, both in the decision of Unknown Worlds or by the comments.

    I think we all know by now how difficult the road is to having the hardware we want and the software to go with it. Just like the introductions of a lot of new tech and formats.

    New hardware/formats are offered to us, enthusiastic early adaptors jump in. The hardware manufacturer has to initially fund a lot of content possibly as a loss leader with some developers enthusiastic enough to test the water and do the same. Then we move towards having enough of a user base to cause developers to continue providing content for profit reasons and off we go.

    I'm guessing we're at about the half-way stage towards a proper self-sustaining consumer PCVR environment. I'm not entirely sure though whether an increased sparsity if titles during the next year or 2 is going to tip the balance and postpone VR for a few more years. I think it's more likely though that it will just move slowly forwards for a while longer, then, with hardware that's both better and cheaper, it'll take off. That may or may not be not the next generation of hardware.

    In the mean time I still enjoy monitor gaming for some genres like RTS, but VR has absolutely ruined monitor FPSs for me. 3rd person games were bad enough... where you're not the player, you're just controlling the player in front of you... now monitor FPSs feel the same compared to VR.

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.476)
  • Nekto2Nekto2 Posts: 270
    Nexus 6
    edited February 7
    Most of them are "fake 3D" conversion. But who cares. None could see the difference.
    I choked at this comment. You can't make the difference between fake 3D and real 3D??? Fake 3D is a hell lot flatter, it's mainly several planes instead of a real 3rd dimension. The reason is obvious: you can't create 3D with only one point of view. The only thing you can do is put some elements on another plane via software tweaks, but those elements are still flat.
    :)
    Wha.....errr....WRONG. That is so laughably wrong that it is simply hilarious.
    Try OPENING their eyes....that may help.
    :)

    I could see the difference. But most of my friends will not. I have asked them after the film is it ok and they told me it's ok.
    Most obvious is not flat scene, but semi-transparent. You could see background sticking to glass or long hair.
    But you could mix real 3D on big screen (IMAX) and "real but flat" 3D on small cinema screen.
    Size of screen make a lot of difference. It's possible to put virtual object 1-2 meters from you in IMAX but you can't do the same most of the time on small cinema screen.
    I have seen Avatar in IMAX and on small screen. Second one looks like fake flat 3D but it was not.

    That will leed to scale/zoom error. You will see big face of a person full screen (small screen) instead of real-sized person but 2 meters from your head (IMAX film). This scale change is leading to "flat face/nose" even with real 3D camera shots.

    You could check web site "fake or real" and compare to your experience. It's possible that you think it was a fake conversion on some real 3D films ;)

    ps. distance to screen also make big difference. You could sit in a wrong place inside a cinema on real 3D film and think it is fake. Try to walk around and see how image on screen become more flat.
    pps. VR is better for 3D film in a lot of reasons :)
  • ohgrantohgrant Posts: 203
    Nexus 6
    edited February 7
    RedRizla said:
    ohgrant said:
     I have confidence that it will remain a niche market just like 3D is and always will be. What I regard as silly are those that are into it because it's the current fad.  

    When you talk about 3D, it just became to expensive for the film industry to make all films like Avatar 3D. VR can be vastly improved upon with things like resolution, which is one of most gripes about VR right now. I also think VR will boom in 10 years time because it will be totally different from what we are seeing today. What is not to like about VR, if it has higher resolution screens and things like foveated rendering etc? 
     3D film has been around since silent films. Died more times than the Blues, only to come back every generation. Each generation has theories of why it died in their generation. Mostly what I've read and seen was the fact that the ladies don't like wearing the glasses. 
     In my opinion, most of the time 3D movies failed because the 3D movies were made just to exhibit the novelty of 3D and some serious horrible movies were made like Robot Monster and It came from Outer Space. 
     I would like to be optimistic as you and believe me I hope I'm wrong but I still think the majority of the ladies aren't about to mess up their hair putting a VR thingy on their heads. There will be exceptions, the cool tom boy nerd gals, but I'm thinking the princesses will have none of it now or any time soon. I think there is a big part of the population that are simply unreachable as long as any type of head apparatus is needed. I don't see the movie industry to ever be willing to make any serious VR ventures. 

    I have to admit, though I much prefer real 3D, they've come along way in 3D conversion. All the 3D Star Trek, Star wars, Jurassic park are converted from my understanding.  It is really getting hard for me to tell the difference but the only giveaway to my old eyes is the slightly exaggerated facial depth of the actors. I have the original Jurassic Park and Wizard of Oz in converted 3D. Totally brilliant conversions IMO. Kudos to those that are still using real 3D and publishers that release classics in 3D.        

    http://www.3dmovielist.com/list.html
  • LuluViBritanniaLuluViBritannia Posts: 478
    Trinity
    You're missng the point (deliberately? who knows...). I'm not saying that about anyone - the point I am making is the way people are refusing to buy any game that isn't VR.

    My point still stands, buddy. We don't refuse to buy non-VR games, we're just not interested in them, which, again, is nothing wrong or childish.
    Current VR results imo:
    - Great small apps. Great ports of bigger games.
    - Great VR-specific features. Not enough showcased!!!
    - Too many actors in the industry, the market is totally broken.


    My hopes for VR next gen:

    - Better ratio between visual quality and power needs. No more godrays and less SDE.
    - Full Body Tracking.


    "If you don't mind, do you want me to take you there? Where dreams come true."
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,086 Valuable Player
    You're missng the point (deliberately? who knows...). I'm not saying that about anyone - the point I am making is the way people are refusing to buy any game that isn't VR.

    My point still stands, buddy. We don't refuse to buy non-VR games, we're just not interested in them, which, again, is nothing wrong or childish.
    indeed.... some games i play out of VR and they are just fine (truth be told i have not used my rift much the last 3 months) but for those games which ARE well suited to VR, I have tried giving them a go on a screen (65inch 4k so a decent one as well) and i just cant get into them.  I bought drive club for my playstation.... a game which is right out of the PGR book and a few years ago i would have loved it.. but it is just tedius to me now.

    i have tried alien isolation and subnautica in VR and then seeing on a screen just does not interest me.  It isnt spite why i am not buying the games not in VR... it is just that i have enough games which ARE in VR which i have not got around to playing so i sure as hell am not buying one i am not even interested in.  I am not a charity - even tho i may act like one sometimes - some of the VR games i have bought have been purely to support the devs even tho i have not come even close to playing yet.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,771 Valuable Player
    edited February 25
    ohgrant said:
    3D film has been around since silent films. Died more times than the Blues, only to come back every generation. Each generation has theories of why it died in their generation. Mostly what I've read and seen was the fact that the ladies don't like wearing the glasses. 
     

    I know the Sun doesn't shine to often in the United Kingdom, but believe me, the ladies like to wear Sun glasses at every opportunity. Not sure what the Cinema glasses look like, but you could get some cool looking 3D glasses that looked like Sun Glasses, so I'm not sure the ladies would be put off by glasses. 

    Here's more reasons why 3D failed, but most of it came down to overall cost.

    https://www.lifewire.com/why-3d-tv-died-4126776
  • JohnnyLeeJohnnyLee Posts: 16
    NerveGear
    edited May 31
    Yup, no VR...no buy. There has to be an extremely compelling reason for me to buy a pancake game now. And this one just doesn't have it...yet!!!!
    I agree. Absolutely cannot purchase another non-VR game. Below Zero VR, would have been an instant purchase for sure. No VR, no purchase. Moving on...
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,195
    3Jane
    I didn't buy subnautica bas game as it did not come with touch. otherwise what is the point of it in VR if you can't interact with your environment??? 

    So this new being non-VR doesn't effect me at all, not until the old version gets updated at least. 
    That's a pretty narrow point of view. I guess you don't play Alien Isolation w/ the VR mod? after all, what's the point? 
    Subnautica needs polishing, but not being able to wave my hands around to swim is the least of its issues. It's amazing and immersive in its own right just with the head set. 
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,195
    3Jane
    edited June 1
    Do you have a counter argument Tom? Subnautica isn't a VR game. It's a game that supports a HMD for viewing. Can't you just enjoy that?
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,086 Valuable Player
    edited June 4
    of course subnautica is a VR game :)   it isnt a fully featured VR game, and it isnt even a finished VR game (full of bugs IME many of which the community have had to fix with hacks).. but it IS a VR game, the fact it is on the oculus store kind of suggests it.

    if not then that means when the oculus rift launched it was not a VR headset, which is false.. and also if you think about it means games like skyrim VR is not a vr title (sure it supports touch but you cant fully interact properly with your environment).

    where do you draw the line?  you could argue that right now there is no single steamVR device on the market which qualify because vive wands do not do hand tracking....... hell maybe touch does not qualify because that only has limited hand tracking, which would mean that the only full vr experiences are ones which support the as yet unreleased knuckle controllers AND support those body tracking pucks.

    clearly this is not the case it is just there are differing levels of VR fidelity, and subnautica is one of the more limited implementations - which is still 500% better than playing on a monitor imo.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,150 Valuable Player
    Atmos @ParadoxAnomaly is someone else that's missing out on a lot of great content by refusing to play seated gamepad controlled games. Some of these games are amongst the best available for my money. Subnautica, The Vanishing Of Ethan Carter VR, Lucky's Tale, Witchblood, Edge Of Nowhere and Chronos to name just half a dozen are top quality games that EVERY VR headset owner should play.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,195
    3Jane
    I don't know how you want me to word it where we will both agree, but I'll try again; Subnautica was first a flat desktop game. They implemented VR support. It has a ton of over sites and stupid blunders that they don't fix, because they don't care, and treat us as " the 1%" who are inconsequential and a waste of dev time.
    With that being said it's extremely immersive and a better experience in VR then on a monitor. There is a mod that (mostly) fixes its issues in VR. 

    But it's lack of motion controller support absolutely does not make or break it, and expecting it to get motion controller support or you just won't play it is a narrow and silly view.
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