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Well If This Ends Up Happening I'm Jumping Ship!

Anonymous
Not applicable
https://uploadvr.com/oculus-rift-s-code-references/

The Rift S has been referenced in code somewhere apparently and is using inside-out tracking and a software IPD instead of a physical one.

Any game using 360 degree tracking will be pretty much unplayable.

I honestly don't know what Oculus are thinking, enthusiasts are going to be leaving the Oculus platform in droves. Still got to wait and see what happens at F8 but if their CV2 is basically a Quest without the mobile phone parts I'm getting myself either a Pimax or a Valve headset and will jump back to Oculus when they release the CV3. The Rift S will probably be cheap but I'm not going near it.

Dear Oculus, if you're releasing a cheap crappy headset with inside-out tracking as your CV2 then I'm not going anywhere near it. Fuck you, I'm buying a Valve/Pimax headset next gen and MIGHT go back to Oculus for the CV3 if you release something decent.

And I actually MEAN it this time! 😞
247 REPLIES 247

kevinw729
Honored Visionary

Mradr said:

......
I know some people thought I was silly for saying that they might go down this route, but I could totally see it being a thing once they feel it was good enough. 
.....
Honestly - the news is soo thin for a leak it sounds like the Oculus S might be a different product thank the CV. If it is a the CV - well that sucks that it sounds like were going backwards a little bit here if theyre going to remove some the extra controls we had.



Have to agree Mradr, though I think we understand that things have changed internally at OVR and that directions and business focuses have been refocused. The Oculus-S sounds like one of a range of products. That investment into Half-Dome is not going to evaporate, and I expect a CV-2 to placate the community, (unless those behind this work have left the company?)

I think the passion of the VR community will mean that if OVR did decide to only focus on a Go, Quest and O-S business approach then they would feel betrayed and be very vocal (as seen above). But the reality of what Facebook VR is prepared to invest into this acquisition (no matter how committed to VR in general) is the issue. 
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

Plus I think we need to keep in mind where our hands will be in relation to the headset and how often and for how long they move outside of the headset's forward view.

There will be many times when we're looking left and our right hand remains at the far right or vice versa, but not for extended periods of time. I don't think super accurate hand tracking at those moments would be vitally important if the controller's internal motion detection is accurate enough to fill in the gap plus a disparity may only be noticeable when we see our hands provided any corrections when returning to camera tracking are small and subtle.

Maybe 360 cameras aren't necessary, I'm thinking maybe 200-220 or there abouts? so that would probably equate to side mounted cameras, or front quarter mounted.

Anonymous
Not applicable


Plus I think we need to keep in mind where our hands will be in relation to the headset and how often and for how long they move outside of the headset's forward view.

There will be many times when we're looking left and our right hand remains at the far right or vice versa, but not for extended periods of time. I don't think super accurate hand tracking at those moments would be vitally important if the controller's internal motion detection is accurate enough to fill in the gap plus a disparity may only be noticeable when we see our hands provided any corrections when returning to camera tracking are small and subtle.

Maybe 360 cameras aren't necessary, I'm thinking maybe 200-220 or there abouts? so that would probably equate to side mounted cameras, or front quarter mounted.



True - but even at the Oculus Quest demo people were finding places that the tracking wasn't work as well as it could've. This means future software will have to keep this in mind and cant be as flexible as it once was. For example, shooting from the hip might not be possible and instead all gun actions have to happen with it forward out. Grabbing things behind that take some positing might fail more times than not - so grabbing that tablet from your butt might start getting annoying if you grab your ammo instead. 

With that said - Quest is a good compromise for the price - but if S is going to replace CV - then it needs to have extra cameras to cover more of the arm rotation - period. The idea is that CV lines take it to the next level - be limited to what we have for Quest is not the next level.

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By adding side cameras - you basically double your tracking numbers and now software can be more flexible in what your community can pull off and use with in their games/software. There will be a little ring between the cameras but soo small it wouldn't even matter because that ring is the dead space your arms get tried in. There will also be a ring of dead space around the headset. Then there is still the back back side of they body - but because of the armor rotation limit and dead zone of where your arms want to be most of the time - that wouldn't be a problem anymore either. But you would gain behind the head/neck area, the hips, greater clipping of the back area, and greater clipping of the lower body too.

Yep, I don't want to downgrade people's expectations over what should be a premium experience over Quest. We definitely don't want anything less capable than what we already have.

Im confident it won't be less capable, I'm maybe more optimistic over what can be done, with what may be on the face of it, less hardware, given advancements in the tech.

That said, companies don't always deliver what we want, and i've got no illusions about the possibility of Oculus disappointing us!

Edit, I still reckon 200-220 degree camera coverage would be pretty good for almost all circumstances, if it's in both the horizontal and vertical, even shooting from the hip. That would equate to 10-20 degree behind the plane of the headset in all directions.

Anonymous
Not applicable


Yep, I don't want to downgrade people's expectations over what should be a premium experience over Quest. We definitely don't want anything less capable than what we already have.

Im confident it won't be less capable, I'm maybe more optimistic over what can be done, with what may be on the face of it, less hardware, given advancements in the tech.

That said, companies don't always deliver what we want, and i've got no illusions about the possibility of Oculus disappointing us!


Honestly - I am ok with a little bit of a down grade over the current tracking system so long as it:
1) Makes setup easier for everyone aka less cameras to setup, less USB ports, and less wires.
2) It helps lower the cost (witch it should as its one less product/item that has to be produce) and over all one less thing that could junk up the system.
3) Oculus adds what is needed to make it still the same or little less than what we have now.

Sadly - I have this feeling they are going to really disappoint us yet again. Really - any time they release big news - it hasn't been taken well xD I remember still the first time PM was happy to let us know about GH 😄 soo many face plats could be heard around the world:) but at the time - I understood still it was the first step in the right direction to get name brand titles on the Rift.

kevinw729
Honored Visionary

DaftnDirect said:
.......
Im confident it won't be less capable, I'm maybe more optimistic over what can be done, with what may be on the face of it, less hardware, given advancements in the tech.

That said, companies don't always deliver what we want, and i've got no illusions about the possibility of Oculus disappointing us!



Strong comments DaftnDirect - I can stand behind those sentiments.
I am keeping my powder dry over Quest - other than a question on the selection of the SD825 chip, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt about the optimisation and achieved performance. A number of the AAA devs who have systems and we speak with are keen to say that minimal optimisation was needed in their port, but there are compromises.

Quest will be a 'make or break' platform for the community. In effect the majority of the VR community have approached VR from a High-end PC direction, many dismissive of mobileVR. With Quest, the promise has been made that it offers "Rift-like experiences", that is a make or break statement, and the proof will be in the reaction in a matter of months time. Launching with a promised 50 titles, this platform has all the opportunity, with no excuses if if can not deliver.
 
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

Stepphen_Robert
Honored Guest

snowdog said:

https://uploadvr.com/oculus-rift-s-code-references/

The Rift S has been referenced in code somewhere apparently and is using inside-out tracking and a software IPD instead of a physical one.

...


Can say more about this?

@Mradr Yeah, Guitar Hero really felt like it was PM's dream experience and unfortunately it was a bit of a niche dream there.

But yes I absolutely agree, we've had enough of expectations not really being met to the full during recent times. But hey, think how much worse it's been for Pimax kickstarters!


kevinw729 said:


Quest will be a 'make or break' platform for the community. In effect the majority of the VR community have approached VR from a High-end PC direction, many dismissive of mobileVR. With Quest, the promise has been made that it offers "Rift-like experiences", that is a make or break statement, and the proof will be in the reaction in a matter of months time. Launching with a promised 50 titles, this platform has all the opportunity, with no excuses if if can not deliver.


I'm genuinely excited about Quest and it will be a definite day 1 purchase for me. It will be really compelling for anyone who's like me, and has their VR confined to the small room where the computer is, as well as those who haven't considered VR because of cost, cordless convenience, PC complexity/compatibility reasons, and who weren't interested in non-6dof, non-hand-tracking varieties of stand-alone VR.

I think that covers a lot of people out there. It doesn't have to be perfect but provided it's good, it'll tell us if the public is really as ready for VR as we think they are.

Alextended
Expert Protege
I mean, you don't have to buy the S, just wait for Oculus Rift 2 if you really wish to upgrade (or whatever they name the next upgrade with external tracking), your current Rift won't stop working because they're making a set to compete with WMR/Vive Cosmos in terms of ease of setup and what not. Just as Oculus Go didn't stop your Rift from working and the Quest won't either. It only makes sense that they make a product competing with those as they can also probably give it out for a cheaper price (or for the same price with upgrades in other areas like the resolution) given that as you said it could well be like an Oculus Quest that is powered by being tethered to a PC rather than a weak mobile chipset, although I kinda wish they had done both products in one instead of do two variants if that's the case, but maybe they differ in other ways as well. I doubt it will have any kind of eye tracking to enable foveated rendering though, that's probably gonna be left for a very premium product like Vive's for ludicrous pricing if done any time soon, or left for later. S sounds like a decent budget iteration much like Rift itself.

If in the mean time another company has come out with a better choice you can go for it, nobody has brand loyalty or anything silly like that. If Valve or another company comes out with another VR set with lighthouse + tracking, knuckle-like controllers and a solid HMD before a Rift 2 comes along and you have money you wish to spend, sure, go for it, I would too. I'll probably not look into upgrading (beyond getting a 3rd sensor for my current Rift) for a few years at least though, even if Rift 2 comes out before that, I'm not one to change gear yearly or something, plus with Rift's low resolution I don't need to upgrade my PC to run most games fine. I'll probably first upgrade my PC before getting a higher end set so that will come even later and I'll see what the best choice is then, Oculus, HTC, Valve, or something else altogether and what has the best features to price ratio and what kind of tracking solutions have been devised by then and how well each works in different scenarios.

Or who knows maybe the same way you buy a 3rd or 4th sensor for the current Rift to add to its tracking quality/versatility maybe a future S-like model (if the upcoming one doesn't have any infrared reflective points for sensors to track) will support doing the same thing, buying (or digging up for your by then old Rift sensors) a couple external sensors for the front and back for additional accuracy and versatility, even if the out of the box experience relies on inside out tracking alone, who knows.

Either way you obviously don't have to buy every product from the company just because you liked one model. Personally I'm curious to see how it will work out, I'm sure it will be fine for 360 gaming but I'm not sure how it will work out with the FPS and other games that often have you holding the controllers in your face or fumbling to your chest/belt/hip for gear without having to look at it, I guess it won't be too bad if you simply have to look down for a moment to get them but the aiming with the controllers close to your face really has to work well so hopefully it overall works better than the WMR sets.

As for actual business decisions I hope the Oculus Quest software will be ported to PC to work with the Rift since it's more than capable of running those, I don't want to miss out on cool Oculus funded stuff like the Star Wars stuff just because I don't have the mobile model. The opposite is not possible, not every single PC game can be ported down to a mobile chipset like the Quest uses, so that's understandable if they don't port everything to it, but every Quest software should be made for Rift and S too.