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Well If This Ends Up Happening I'm Jumping Ship!

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,572 Valuable Player
    The 1400 price tag doesn't bother as much as all the other stuff surrounding the HTC Vive Pro:
    • Integrated Audio isn't as refined
    • HMD Comfort is arse
    • Wands and a Trackpad are a damn joke
    • HTC is in a constant state of financial ruin
    But yeah, those lenses are tight tho!
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 465
    Trinity
    edited February 8
    Zenbane said:
    The 1400 price tag doesn't bother as much as all the other stuff surrounding the HTC Vive Pro:
    • Integrated Audio isn't as refined
    • HMD Comfort is arse
    • Wands and a Trackpad are a damn joke
    • HTC is in a constant state of financial ruin
    But yeah, those lenses are tight tho!
    The trackpads are something I laugh about everytime I use my Odyssey+. I literally say to myself every time, How can anyone prefer this over an analog stick lol. (Odyssey at least has sticks too) I mean the mouse like input from dragging your finger across it is ok but it's like a bad trackpad and kind of finicky. Though, it does serve as a Dpad to give you 4 buttons which is nice as sticks only give you the one on press down.

    I couldn't agree more on HTC and their tech support being a cause for concern but that also factors in to the 1400 price point for me. Higher risk there.

    One thing I've learned with the O+ is that the shape of your head seems to matters a lot with comfort. O+ fits my head great and it's really comfortable to me in long sessions (it does leave a bad red mark on my forehead but doesn't actually hurt me) but a lot of my friends can't even use it without pain or they can't get into the sweet spot and have audio lol. Likewise, I've seen people who praise the comfort of the Vive Pro and others who say it's too bulky and clunky for them. Just one of those things I guess and is where the flexible Ski Mask design of the Rift is really good. Once you replace the stock pads for some aftermarket faceplates/covers, it's fantastic. I have a PSVR and I still prefer the Rift to that design as well because it feels more fixed on me without moving. PSVR is better if more than one person is using it though as constantly adjusting the Rift straps is annoying.


  • gr0bdagr0bda Posts: 268
    Nexus 6
    I don't understand the big hoopla about inside out tracking. I own now Odyssey+ (which is a total piece of shit btw) but I have to say I use it more often that Rift, JUST because of the inside out tracking and ability of playing wherever I please, unlike Rift, where I have to be in my designated area (which is not at the PC).
    If they can improve the tracking by adding extra cameras, especially in the back, it will be waaaay better than any wacky wired system that's currently in use. I'm "sorry" to say but inside out tracking is the future. And the next iteration of  PSVR will only reinforce that.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,638 Valuable Player
    gr0bda said:
    I don't understand the big hoopla about inside out tracking. I own now Odyssey+ (which is a total piece of shit btw) but I have to say I use it more often that Rift, JUST because of the inside out tracking and ability of playing wherever I please, unlike Rift, where I have to be in my designated area (which is not at the PC).
    If they can improve the tracking by adding extra cameras, especially in the back, it will be waaaay better than any wacky wired system that's currently in use. I'm "sorry" to say but inside out tracking is the future. And the next iteration of  PSVR will only reinforce that.

    The problem is that it doesn't provide 360 degree tracking which causes problems playing certain games - any game where you need to reach behind you such as Echo, any game which has your hands to close to the headset such as archery games and any game that involves firing from the hip, firing in multiple directions or involves grabbing something like ammo etc without looking at it will have tracking issues.

    And tracking issues instantly kill immersion.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,572 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    The problem is that it doesn't provide 360 degree tracking which causes problems playing certain games - any game where you need to reach behind you such as Echo, any game which has your hands to close to the headset such as archery games and any game that involves firing from the hip, firing in multiple directions or involves grabbing something like ammo etc without looking at it will have tracking issues.

    And tracking issues instantly kill immersion.

    I've made this same argument against WMR, but everyone who owns a WMR headset swears that it isn't a problem. And Quest tracking covers a wider range than WMR. Over time I've accepted that my arguments are based only on how I "think" this should all work compared to how it actually works based on first-hand experiences. But you are still arguing based solely on theory without leaving room for first-hand experience.

    Regardless, neither of us has any idea if the Rift will add additional cameras. There is nothing about these rumors that suggest Facebook-Oculus won't add at least one camera in the rear of the Rift-S. And if we end up finding out that the Rift-S will in fact have an additional camera to ensure flawless 360 tracking... then this entire 5-Page thread was pretty much pointless! lol
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  • WildtWildt Posts: 1,524
    Project 2501
    If we can get a pro level Echo, Quivr, Eleven Table tennis and Onward player to state that their experience with upcoming inside out is on par with current outside in solutions - I wouldn't worry.

    But I'm not fucking going backwards on tracking precision after 3 years.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,638 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    snowdog said:
    The problem is that it doesn't provide 360 degree tracking which causes problems playing certain games - any game where you need to reach behind you such as Echo, any game which has your hands to close to the headset such as archery games and any game that involves firing from the hip, firing in multiple directions or involves grabbing something like ammo etc without looking at it will have tracking issues.

    And tracking issues instantly kill immersion.

    I've made this same argument against WMR, but everyone who owns a WMR headset swears that it isn't a problem. And Quest tracking covers a wider range than WMR. Over time I've accepted that my arguments are based only on how I "think" this should all work compared to how it actually works based on first-hand experiences. But you are still arguing based solely on theory without leaving room for first-hand experience.

    Regardless, neither of us has any idea if the Rift will add additional cameras. There is nothing about these rumors that suggest Facebook-Oculus won't add at least one camera in the rear of the Rift-S. And if we end up finding out that the Rift-S will in fact have an additional camera to ensure flawless 360 tracking... then this entire 5-Page thread was pretty much pointless! lol

    Not everyone, there are plenty of people on Reddit complaining about it quite regularly.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,572 Valuable Player
    edited February 9
    snowdog said:
    Not everyone, there are plenty of people on Reddit complaining about it quite regularly.

    No doubt. I wouldn't bet on WMR tracking anyway. As we've seen, Quest will cover a wider area than WMR. But this isn't even Quest we're talking about, it's Rift. And as I said, there's nothing in the rumor that states a lack of 360. I'm still not sure why you automatically assume that they wouldn't add one or more cameras on to the Rift-S HMD.


    Wildt said:
    If we can get a pro level Echo, Quivr, Eleven Table tennis and Onward player to state that their experience with upcoming inside out is on par with current outside in solutions - I wouldn't worry.

    But I'm not fucking going backwards on tracking precision after 3 years.

    Agreed. I don't wanna go backwards on tracking either. I just don't want to act dramatic and make assumptions. The current rumor that this thread is based on only states that Inside-Out tracking may be the main tracking for the Rift-S. The rumor does not state that the tracking will be identical to Quest. Nor does the rumor state that our existing Oculus external sensors won't be supported.
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  • ShocksOculusShocksOculus Posts: 150
    Art3mis
    Zenbane said:

    No doubt. I wouldn't bet on WMR tracking anyway. As we've seen, Quest will cover a wider area than WMR. But this isn't even Quest we're talking about, it's Rift. And as I said, there's nothing in the rumor that states a lack of 360. I'm still not sure why you automatically assume that they wouldn't add one or more cameras on to the Rift-S HMD.

    Ya, that's what kind irritates me.
    If it's Valve, HTC, Pimax, people expect the best and give them the benefit of the doubt.
    If it's Oculus, people expect the worse and think they can;t do anything right.
    I just don't get it.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,572 Valuable Player
    ShocksOculus said:
    I just don't get it.

    I've never cared to understand such things; I'd rather make fun of them instead
    :p
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  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,254
    3Jane
    edited February 9
    Wildt said:
    HiThere_ said:
    - If you use a custom sized super long screen, instead of using a pair of smartphone screens like the CV1 did, you don't need a physical IPD slider anymore
    That doesn't solve the issue of aligning your eyes with the lenses. 
    Well the idea is that Oculus VR did solve that issue, of aligning eyes with the lenses without requiring a physical IPD slider, which is why they'd be going for a software IPD slider for all their products from then on.
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 600
    Neo
    I have a WMR Dell headset and I can say that the software IPD (mine is 67mm btw) does not work for me.  The manual adjustment on my Rift is much better imho.  I'm glad to hear that the Quest will also have this.  Maybe Oculus will come out with better IPD software, who knows?
    Alienware 17r4 Laptop with i7-7700hq 2.8/3.6, 32 gb ram, gtx1060 w/6gb ram, 256gb ssd, 1tb hdd, Oculus Rift w/2x sensors.  Now using an Alienware Graphics Amplifier (AGA) with Zotac gtx1080ti Blower and Asus vg248qe 144hz external monitor.  All works great!

    Also have a 64gb Oculus Go which I love for travel and quick VR Fixes.  Looking forward to the Quest!
  • ohgrantohgrant Posts: 128
    Art3mis
    edited February 9
      To be honest, I kind of doubt that you would be at all happy with a Vive, if I didn't get mine used for a fraction of the cost, I'd be pretty upset for the most part.
      Zen is correct in saying those Vive controllers are just awful, especially for some VR games like Skyrim and Fallout if you want free locomotion. 
     I have to admit the gear VR mod is brilliant, very surprising the awesome image quality hidden behind those poorly chosen hazy fresnels that were in there.I tried at first without any barrel distortion correction. There was barely any need and took some time seeing what it is that could be corrected. I tried all 4 available barrel mods and #3 seems perfect. Everything looks like a much higher resolution. 
     Another thing that needs replaced is the head strap. Going to have to upgrade to the deluxe head strap if I want to use it for any length of time.
     The lighthouse system is by no means better than my Oculus 3 cameras. Equivalent I would say. 
     I will most likely use my Oculus for most room scale games and the Vive to play steam VR sims and old 3D games on my old PC with virtual desktop. The controllers are that bad.
     I don't think Vive was a bad product, I think it was a rushed product. Before touch came out, the Vive controllers were the best wireless motion controllers for it's time. 
     It's the fact that the Oculus touch controllers was such a brilliant innovation that made the Vive controllers and their whole scheme of things obsolete.
     I hope Oculus keeps their their current system until they have something better.       
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,328
    Wintermute
    At the beginning god said let there be light and it was good. At the beginning they said let there be track pads and it totally sucked. I wasn't happy to use an Xbox controller at 1st but I knew that the touch controls would be awesome. 
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,643 Valuable Player
    I'll move onto another HMD if they release an inside out tracking headset with no rear camera in place of the CV2.  I know nobody cares, it just means I'll buy all  my games on steam so I don't lose them if I switch.  If CV2 truly is an upgrade to the Rift I currently own, I'll buy it when it comes out.  My only option is to wait.....
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,572 Valuable Player
    If the Rift-S truly lacks full 360 room-scale, then I probably just won't get it. I'll stick with my existing lineup of: Rift CV1, Quest, and GO. I don't see anything on the market worth "jumping ship towards." At least not now. I sure as hell aint leaving my Touch Controllers for any bulker wands. Neither the Vive Pro nor Pimax are worth a consideration.

    I'd just have to wait another year or two and see what Windows does with their next version of WMR.

    So either I'm getting a Rift-S or... I'm just waiting longer!
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  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 5,140 Volunteer Moderator
    Zenbane said:

    So either I'm getting a Rift-S or... I'm just waiting longer!
    This ^^^^ if my current rift breaks I'll just get another until something wow for PCVR comes along.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 465
    Trinity
    edited February 10
    Wildt said:
    If we can get a pro level Echo, Quivr, Eleven Table tennis and Onward player to state that their experience with upcoming inside out is on par with current outside in solutions - I wouldn't worry.

    But I'm not fucking going backwards on tracking precision after 3 years.
    Extremely doubtful it'll be good enough for what you like to do. I don't think you are the target audience to achieve the 1 billion people goal. I've mentioned a couple of times I think it's good enough to play 90% of games and for general users it should be fine. For people doing Esports/chasing scores/playing at high levels of precision (IE the other 10%) I'm extremely skeptical that it will beat out constellation for those players. It's why my Rift is still connected even though I use Odyssey+ more and likely still will be when I have a Rift S lol.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,179 Valuable Player
    edited February 10
    Think I might just wait for Rift S or whatever it's called. I'm still keen on the Oculus Quest, but if the battery is only going to last 3 hours I'm not sure it's long enough for me. I usually spend around 5 hours when I put on the VR headset, but to have it go out on me after 3 hours, I'm not sure it's for me. Anyone know how long it will take to recharge the Oculus Quest? Will it be a similar time to Oculus GO and how long is the charging time for Oculus GO?

    I'm sure the Oculus Quest will do well even if the battery life is only a few hours. Lots of people just like a few hours in VR as Oculus GO has proved. Anyways, I'll wait for more news and reviews on it. If Rift S is still a long way off I'll probably be tempted by it.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,572 Valuable Player
    GO is fully charged after roughly 30-45 minutes.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,179 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    GO is fully charged after roughly 30-45 minutes.

    That's not bad if Oculus Quest charges in that time. It will probably force me to give my eyes a rest because 5 hours straight is quite a long time without eye rest in VR.
  • ShocksOculusShocksOculus Posts: 150
    Art3mis
    edited February 11
    Wildt said:
    pyroth309 said:
    Wildt said:
    If we can get a pro level Echo, Quivr, Eleven Table tennis and Onward player to state that their experience with upcoming inside out is on par with current outside in solutions - I wouldn't worry.

    But I'm not fucking going backwards on tracking precision after 3 years.
    Extremely doubtful it'll be good enough for what you like to do. I don't think you are the target audience to achieve the 1 billion people goal. I've mentioned a couple of times I think it's good enough to play 90% of games and for general users it should be fine. For people doing Esports/chasing scores/playing at high levels of precision (IE the other 10%) I'm extremely skeptical that it will beat out constellation for those players. 
    That's what I'm fearful of - but as I said earlier in this thread, it wouldn't increase the cost a much to throw some bloody IR LEDs on the Rift-S, thus making it backwards compatible with constellation. Everybody is happy!
    If Rift-S uses the new Touch controllers (with the ring above), then it may have IR-LEDs.  If yes, then it may be backwards compatible with CV1 Constellation sensors.  The headset itself may not need any additional LEDs.
    However, existing Touch communicates with the headset, so I'm not sure how feasible my idea may be.
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  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 726
    3Jane
    gr0bda said:
    I don't understand the big hoopla about inside out tracking. I own now Odyssey+ (which is a total piece of shit btw) but I have to say I use it more often that Rift, JUST because of the inside out tracking and ability of playing wherever I please, unlike Rift, where I have to be in my designated area (which is not at the PC).
    If they can improve the tracking by adding extra cameras, especially in the back, it will be waaaay better than any wacky wired system that's currently in use. I'm "sorry" to say but inside out tracking is the future. And the next iteration of  PSVR will only reinforce that.

    Yeah I see a lot of debate about tracking. I can understand because I was sold on room scale and tracking with my three sensors and I like my setup and inside/out tracking sounded inferior to our current setups at first but the positive reviews recently have made me realise that inside/out tracking is probably the way to go and the direction VR is heading so I'm cool with that as long as it's not worse then what we have already.

    I've been thinking all this time though, why not give us the option to use both? Instead of getting rid of our current cameras allow us to use them with inside/out tracking to cover more area and make tracking even better? Would that not be better solution then choosing one type of tracking over another?
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,510 Valuable Player

    I've been thinking all this time though, why not give us the option to use both? Instead of getting rid of our current cameras allow us to use them with inside/out tracking to cover more area and make tracking even better? Would that not be better solution then choosing one type of tracking over another?
    This would be the dream imo.... i guess that will come down to price if it is practical or not... but inside out tracking with a couple of sensors to aid them would be fab imo.  It would mean i could free up 1 usb 3.0 at least as well.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • MradrMradr Posts: 2,770 Valuable Player
    edited February 11
    At this point the only ones I would "jump ship" for are Vive Pro Eye and/or the rumor google 4k by 4k Eye tracking devices that are said to be release sometime in 2020 or 2021 with a FOV of around 140-160. I honestly believe eye tracking has to happen if VR wants to continue going forward either it be for lower level hardware or to make the experience better. The longer we dont have it - the longer itll take the technology to grow and expand and there for the longer itll take VR to play cache up to console like levels of users. Granted - I want it to take its time as well and not rush with no software support like we saw with the NV 20s cards (RTX). At the same time - dont be scare to release if there are a hand full of titles either. More will come or be updated to support it if they want to target more users.

    Then again - I have a feeling this is why theyre calling it S and instead of CV2 in the fact they are not coming with it and saving it for their next release of Quest or GO to show off the benefits of what eye tracking can do.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,572 Valuable Player
    Wildt said:
    That's what I'm fearful of - but as I said earlier in this thread, it wouldn't increase the cost a much to throw some bloody IR LEDs on the Rift-S, thus making it backwards compatible with constellation. Everybody is happy!

    Mark Z did in fact say that any future iteration of Rift would be backwards compatible. We shall see!!
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 2,770 Valuable Player
    edited February 11
    Zenbane said:
    snowdog said:
    The problem is that it doesn't provide 360 degree tracking which causes problems playing certain games - any game where you need to reach behind you such as Echo, any game which has your hands to close to the headset such as archery games and any game that involves firing from the hip, firing in multiple directions or involves grabbing something like ammo etc without looking at it will have tracking issues.

    And tracking issues instantly kill immersion.

    I've made this same argument against WMR, but everyone who owns a WMR headset swears that it isn't a problem. And Quest tracking covers a wider range than WMR. Over time I've accepted that my arguments are based only on how I "think" this should all work compared to how it actually works based on first-hand experiences. But you are still arguing based solely on theory without leaving room for first-hand experience.

    There are people on Reddit though and other forums that do report these type of issues still and that it isnt perfect either. Even if Oculus Quest is better - that only makes it better than the WMR devices and not 100% still. Even people at the event did report some uneasiness when using bows and arrows sometimes. 

    For what Quest is - I think that is fine - but as I said on another page - they sure will have to add something a little extra if S is to be replacing the current tracking system. Granted I am up for the replacement honestly. There are soo many benefits to inside out tracking. Hopefully though they are reading this and taking note of our concerns. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,572 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    There are people on Reddit though and other forums that do report these type of issues still and that it isnt perfect either. Even if Oculus Quest is better - that only makes it better than the WMR devices and not 100% still. Even people at the event did report some uneasiness when using bows and arrows sometimes. 


    Yeah but you and I have talked about these types of things before, and I still hold the stance that you intentionally seek out negative information about Oculus products. There's always going to be problems and imperfections, just look at the Support forum on this website talking about how the Rift CV1 is a bad product.

    Have you personally tried a WMR and Quest headset to do a comparison? I'm assuming no. So you, much like most of us in this topic, are just speculating and theorycrafting based on internet posts.

    And you already have a defeatist attitude towards Quests with statements like, "Even if Oculus Quest is better - that only makes it better than the WMR device."

    If it's better than WMR then that means it's better at 360 roomscale than WMR. And that's just Quest... now we get to see how Rift-S improves upon that. But "improve" is a positive word which doesn't work well for people who are just sitting and waiting to see how Rift-S "fails" at something.
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 2,770 Valuable Player
    edited February 11
    Zenbane said:
    Mradr said:
    There are people on Reddit though and other forums that do report these type of issues still and that it isnt perfect either. Even if Oculus Quest is better - that only makes it better than the WMR devices and not 100% still. Even people at the event did report some uneasiness when using bows and arrows sometimes. 


    Yeah but you and I have talked about these types of things before, and I still hold the stance that you intentionally seek out negative information about Oculus products. There's always going to be problems and imperfections, just look at the Support forum on this website talking about how the Rift CV1 is a bad product.

    Have you personally tried a WMR and Quest headset to do a comparison? I'm assuming no. So you, much like most of us in this topic, are just speculating and theorycrafting based on internet posts.

    And you already have a defeatist attitude towards Quests with statements like, "Even if Oculus Quest is better - that only makes it better than the WMR device."

    If it's better than WMR then that means it's better at 360 roomscale than WMR. And that's just Quest... now we get to see how Rift-S improves upon that. But "improve" is a positive word which doesn't work well for people who are just sitting and waiting to see how Rift-S "fails" at something.
    I have used a WMR device and can say there are issues with side tracking over a period of time. I havent use Quest - so sure you have me there - but going off what we know so far - it doesnt look like itll be too far off from WMR over a given amount of time either. Meaning there will be issues over time people will "live with" but maybe not complain about to a point. Meaning dislike of a future will have to stand until the next hardware release.

    As for WMR - yes if you kept your controllers to the side of your body over a given amount of time they will drift so stuff like shooting from the hip can start having issuers for example or arrows flying in a direction you didnt aim for.

    Na, its a concern as a comparing of what the tracking we see with current devices. Everything goes up in levels - how far do we have to go up in levels before its "good enough" to be consider 360 tracking? Even now - Quest isnt 360 tracking to the true name. Aka, its only tracking the headset - not the controllers in a true 360 motion. Meaning we are again having to change what we mean by 360 tracking from just last year.

    And you already have a defeatist attitude towards Quests with statements like, "Even if Oculus Quest is better - that only makes it better than the WMR device."
    Its not like they added cameras all around the headset either man. They added 2 extra camera to the front. Its not like a night and day difference as far as the coverage area. Its double than what the WMR has - but that number was already super low to start with.
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