Steam Hardware Survey - Rift vs. Vive and WMR - results from April 2019 included - Page 2 — Oculus
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Steam Hardware Survey - Rift vs. Vive and WMR - results from April 2019 included

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,413 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    RedRizla said:
    .....
    The Vive Pro is to expensive for a lot of people that's why it's not selling well. It's the same reason why you think Oculus might have sold lots more headsets for £299 and not £379. You could say the Vive Pro might have sold lots if it dropped it's price to £400..

    Not entirely accurate @RedRizla - we are seeing an incredible number of Vive Pro sales in commercial entertainment - and as the majority do not use Steam the numbers do not reflect this! 


    Edited my reply - wasn't very clear - i'm not talking about an entire market (consumer or Out of Home):

    We (the company I work for - a VR software business (CAD)) only sell Vives (Vive Pro now - the majority wireless).  Now, they do use Steam (before connecting to our own software), but are these recorded in the survey?  Or is it an actual survey that a user completes??

    To clarify: we also supply the hardware as packages.  It was always Vives at an early stage due to them having controllers and a "business edition".

    It's a totally random thing. If you have Steam running and you're selected for the survey a box will pop up asking you for permission to take part. If you say yes and your headset is connected to Steam then it'll be included in the survey no matter what software is running on it.
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,034 Valuable Player
    edited January 7
    kevinw729 said:
    I understand that there is no obligation to OVR to share sales numbers - though recent departures have filled the holes for many of us. My issue is that in order to build momentum it may help if they lower the curtain to encourage developers - especially as there will not be a Steam equivalent regarding penetration of Quest users. 

    We've had this discussion before and arrived at something like 8 - 9 mill PCVR and PSVR users - broken down, about 2 mill Rift users, 1.5 mill Vive users and 0.5 mill MS MR users. 

    Now Nvidia has just stated that there're 4 mill PCVR users - more or less confirming these numbers:



    More info in this thread, page 2:

    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/comment/646879#Comment_646879
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,413 Valuable Player
    Well they got that wrong, the crazy fools. They completely forgot about the 0.000000001m Vive Pro owners. :p :D
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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,721 Volunteer Moderator
    snowdog said:
    Well they got that wrong, the crazy fools. They completely forgot about the 0.000000001m Vive Pro owners. :p :D
    Lol, they are about to announce something new, they have a CES press event at 9PM UK time
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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,721 Volunteer Moderator
    RuneSR2 said:
    kevinw729 said:
    I understand that there is no obligation to OVR to share sales numbers - though recent departures have filled the holes for many of us. My issue is that in order to build momentum it may help if they lower the curtain to encourage developers - especially as there will not be a Steam equivalent regarding penetration of Quest users. 

    We've had this discussion before and arrived at something like 8 - 9 mill PCVR and PSVR users - broken down, about 2 mill Rift users, 1.5 mill Vive users and 0.5 mill MS MR users. 

    Now Nvidia has just stated that there're 4 mill PCVR users - more or less confirming these numbers:



    More info in this thread, page 2:

    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/comment/646879#Comment_646879

    OOH new RTX powered Arnold renderer, I need to watch that keynote.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,629 Valuable Player

    OOH new RTX powered Arnold renderer, I need to watch that keynote.
    I keep getting a lot of 'material not supported' messages for Arnold so have defaulted to ART rather than dig deeper, very interested in what the improvements are though.
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,034 Valuable Player
    edited February 2
    RuneSR2 said:
    December 2018 results have arrived:





    I was expecting to see a larger impact of the Black Friday sales, when you could get the Rift for just $350, but maybe they all went under Christmas trees - in that case we won't see the impact for at least another month. 

    0.80 % of all Steam users may now have/use a PCVR HMD. At least that's a 100% increase since April 2018, where 0.40 % had a PCVR HMD. Then again, in July the numbers were 0.70%, so not much seems to have happened this autumn. 

    Back to the December 2018 results, Vive Pro is still more or less dead in the water and the small increase in WMR may be related to Samsung Odyssey+. Oculus Rift gained about 3% from November, but that's probably far from enough to really make Oculus happy... 

    And then the video cards:

    GTX 1060 = 14.80 %
    GTX 1070 = 4.02 %
    GTX 1080 = 2.75 %
    GTX 1080 Ti = 1.62 % 
    RTX 2070 = 0.16 %
    RTX 2080 = 0.21 %
    RTX 2080 Ti = not present = less than 0.15 %

    LZoltowski wrote "there are more VR headsets in use than RTX 2080 + RTX 2070 combined". Of course this number will probably grow, as persons thinking about getting a 1080 Ti now may prefer the RTX 2080. The RTX 2070 may be a very interesting card, typically placed between 1080 and 1080 Ti regarding performance, and the RTX 2070 has similar power consumption like the GTX 1080. Still to get better performance in VR games than a 1080 Ti can provide you'll need a 2080 Ti.  

    Results from January 2019 just arrived:




    Seems like a 16% increase for the Rift and 12 % for the Vive. In Dec 2018 0.80 % of all Steam users had PCVR, Jan 2019 0.91 % had PCVR. That's about a 14% increase in just 1 month, I guess Santa had a busy Christmas delivering so many HMDs!  :D

    We're now very close to 1 % of Steam users owning a PCVR HMD. 

    2080 Ti is still no where in sight - while 0.32 % used RTX 2070 and 0.30 % used RTX 2080 (non-Ti). Next month due to RTX 2060 I wouldn't be surprised if there for the first time are more RTX users than VR users - on Steam.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,413 Valuable Player
    That's cos most people aren't willing to re-mortgage their houses or risk the kidnapping of wealthy family children to fund a 2080Ti :o :D :D :D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,413 Valuable Player
    If you want your child back unharmed leave a 2080Ti in a plain brown paper bag in a bin in Central Park at 4pm tomorrow.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,034 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    If you want your child back unharmed leave a 2080Ti in a plain brown paper bag in a bin in Central Park at 4pm tomorrow.
    "Dear Kidnappers, thank you for taking care of my child, it's been very noisy and has kept me from enjoying my 2080 Ti. Contact me again in a few months, then your work as babysitters may be worth a 2080 Ti - or maybe even two. Thanks so much!"
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,413 Valuable Player
    Dear parents, right. If that's the way things are going to be, you bastards, if you send me the 2080Ti then I'll send the horrible child BACK TO YOU!!!!

    Reminds me of a film years ago, can't remember the name of the film now, starred Danny DeVito who's wife was kidnapped and he told them to keep her lol
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    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,285
    Wintermute
    Yea, I was on board to pick up the 2080TI until I saw the performance per dollar for it and how small of an increase it is over the 1080TI. Yea, I'll wait another generation and maybe even the gen after that if this is the new norm. 
  • Nekto2Nekto2 Posts: 244
    Nexus 6
    Is there stats for online VR users?
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,413 Valuable Player
    It was called Ruthless People:



     :D  :D :D
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    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,677 Valuable Player
    I actually participated, for the first time ever, in the February hardware survey. whooo!

    There's really only one thing that these numbers mean:
    VR IS NOT DEAD
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,629 Valuable Player

    I wonder if people who are interested in VR adoption are now figuring the main player's next headsets are not far off so best to hold off jumping in until they hear some announcements.

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,034 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    I actually participated, for the first time ever, in the February hardware survey. whooo!

    There's really only one thing that these numbers mean:
    VR IS NOT DEAD
    Fully agree. New users may be greatly impressed by the amount of VR content, but maybe it's becoming harder to keep the old-timers interested. The latter may require an ongoing flow of new high-quality content, and that may be an entirely new/different ballgame... To have and to hold... 
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,285
    Wintermute
    edited March 3
    RuneSR2 said:
    Seems like everything froze the last month, then again it is winter... (ok, that wasn't really funny, sigh):




    How can we interpret these numbers? The number of Steam users may grow gradually each month, so the number of VR users needs to grow similarly just to be the same (and maybe it didn't). It's probably not reasonable to think that no new VR users were registered during the last month, maybe we're seeing that the number of users unplugging VR HMDs from their gaming rigs has been similar to the number of new VR users. That would not be a trend I like to see - let's hope for some great new VR games to appear soon, the more or less old giants like Lone Echo and Robo Recall may need some help soon... Personally I find is very strange that VR isn't selling much better - the biggest problem may be that many persons have never experienced VR and have no clue what it really feels like, sadly. 

    For the first time 2080 Ti users are now appearing = 0.20%. This indicates that there are about twice as many Rift than 2080 Ti users, but 2080 Ti may be closing in fast... 

     Steam is actually kind of stagnant at the moment. The 5 or 6 most popular games aren't on Steam including the 2 hottest ones Apex and Fortnite. A lot of potential VR customers are probably too busy playing Apex Legends. 
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,336 Valuable Player
    We can only hope that the rumored Valve VR announcement during GDC will cause a stir with SteamVR.
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  • nroskonrosko Posts: 953
    Neo
    I think the quality of games in 2019 will pull a lot of users over to VR, I also think the 'vr is dead' 'vr is a gimmick' memes has run its course. New hardware from Valve & HTC maybe announcement for Riftxx end of the year should hopefully keep things interesting this year.    
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,034 Valuable Player
    edited March 4
    Another possible explanation for the slow Rift adoption during the last month may be that it's sold out - which is kinda strange - but this is Amazon (US) just now:



    - and this is Best Buy just now:




    Walmart has 1 Rift left - at $450 from an external seller. Then again, if I order from Oculus.com it seems to be in stock (shipping in 2 days). 

    Strange?

    PS. Also there're no new units available on Amazon in the UK, France or in Germany. Seems like Amazon in Europe has stopped selling the Rift? (It doesn't say "sold out", seems like they don't plan to get new Rifts - used Rifts are still available though - and new Rifts only from external sellers). I wonder if Rift at $350 is so cheap that Oculus needs to limit the supply chain?
    Even here in Denmark you have to wait 1 month to get the Rift - estimated arrival April 2:

    https://www.elgiganten.dk/product/gaming/vr-virtual-reality-gaming/OCULUSBUNDLE/oculus-rift-vr-bundle (this store is the only shop in Denmark officially supported by Oculus)
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,034 Valuable Player
    BTW, Amazon.com now has Rift back in stock - great that customers did not have to wait several weeks:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073X8N1YW

    Personally I bought my Rift directly from Oculus - unless Amazon has better customer support or other important benefits, why buy Rift on Amazon? :)
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,034 Valuable Player
    edited April 3
    Results from March 2019 have arrived:




    Now 0.96% of all Steam users have VR HMDs connected to their PCs - extremely close to 1%. Compare that to the results in April 2018:

    April 2018:
    Oculus Rift 0.20%
    HTC Vive 0.18%
    Windows Mixed Reality 0.01%
    Oculus Rift DK2 0.01%
    Oculus Rift DK1 0.00%
    Unknown 0.00%
    (Total = 0.40)

    Going from 0.40 to 0.96 corresponds to 2.4 times as many HMDs if the number of Steam users has stayed the same - if more persons joined Steam the last year, then the change may be even more pronounced (or less if Steam lost users the last year, but I'd be surprised if that happened). 

    VR HMDs never had a stronger presence on Steam - quite possibly the number of VR HMD Steam users may have increased about 3 times the last year. (If the trend continues we may have about 3% VR HMD Steam users in April 2020 - and 9% in April 2021 - and April 2022 will be simply amazing! :D )

    The most popular video card by far is still GTX 1060 (15%). RTX is gaining - slowly:

    RTX 2070 = 0.63 % (may already sold better than CV1 ;-)
    RTX 2080 = 0.48 %
    RTX 2060 = 0.26%
    RTX 2080 Ti = 0.25 %
    (Total 1.62 %) 

    Now there're more RTX cards among Steam users than VR HMDs, but I guess that was going to happen sooner or later ;)
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 971
    3Jane
    I'm shocked to see the Vive Pro hasn't taken off - it really is a great headset.

    I wish Oculus had reduced the price of the Rift for Christmas (yes, lower than £379).  I'm thinking £299.  Would have been a great seller at that price i think.

    Mate it's way too expensive, it's a simple as that, I have a Rift that I paid £600 for back in the day, and now only cost £400, there's no way I would spend over £1000 for a Vive Pro, that's just mental.

    In my opinion no HMD should ever cost more then £400 - £600, that is the bar for me.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,034 Valuable Player
    edited May 2
    Maybe the CV1 being unavailable for so many weeks and no Rift-S in sight had quite an impact - at least the number of Steam users with a CV1 connected fell nearly 10% :# - All other HMDs didn't move at all, so many got rid of the CV1 and were holding their breaths for Rift-S and Index? 

    Results from April 2019:





    Last month 0.96% of Steam users had a PCVR HMD, now it's down to 0.92 (4% total decline) - but I have a feeling that these numbers will go up later this year - I hope.  
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  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,091 Valuable Player
    edited May 2
    I think it is safe to say Oculus will lose some PC-VR enthusiasts this year to other brands.
    And I am sure they are aware of it. I think they have the bulk of their eggs in Quest followed by Go.
    Volume baby volume.

    After Quest release, where will they focus? Mainly software for a while? And if so software for which device?
    Don

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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,629 Valuable Player

    I disagree, enthusiasts who want high frame rates with improved clarity for intense programs for any given GPU will appreciate the S. Enthusiasts who want the best resolution and more FOV will appreciate the Index.

    Enthusiasts who want potentially more accurate controller tracking because of the proximity of the controllers to the cameras... or who want to be enthusiastic in their study for sit-down VR (where they have to use their PC for work) and in a larger room for free-movement VR... and frequently move between the two, will appreciate the S. yep I'm describing myself here!

    There are different kinds of enthusiast I think.

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