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Meanwhile at Valve... VR layoffs

Zenbane
MVP
MVP
Restructuring, or preparing for a decreased footprint in VR?

Valve Lays Off Parts of VR Team, Denies Change in Direction

“Last month, 13 full-time employees were let go and a portion of our contractor agreements were terminated. It’s an unfortunate part of business, but does not represent any major changes at the company. We thank those affected for their contribution and wish them well in future endeavors.”

One of the people who departed the company as part of the layoffs was Nat Brown, who had been working as a VR engineer for the company since September of 2015. Brown announced his departure on Twitter Thursday morning, saying that he left Valve in early February.

https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/valve-vr-layoffs-1203157565/
98 REPLIES 98

kevinw729
Honored Visionary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff_vqf-JklE
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

Zenbane
MVP
MVP
I love the YouTube comments on this news, making it about Half-Life 3,

  • THEORY: The 13 employees all came together and pitched HL3 on VR - Gabe didn't like it.
  • 13 hmmm I guess he still hates 3

Nekto2
Superstar

Zenbane said:

Completely false. Hands down - as of right now - everyone agrees that Inside-Out tracking is the greatest thing for VR since it frees up the limitations of cables and a single-room, while opening up true freedom-of-movement and arena-scale VR.

How about lighting?
Have not read anything on required room lighting level. Will it work in dark and pitch-dark rooms?
Are those cameras recording IR lite (likely)? So can you get an external IR lamp to make a dark room not so dark for Insight? Can you place stationary IR leds across the room to help Insight?
Is a ceiling the best way to place them? So it will not interfere with multiple players inside a room.

Is there any info on Insight helpers? If you have an empty room for VR what is the best wallpaper pattern to use for better tracking? (for home and LBE use).
Will Oculus sell branded wallpaper for best tracking?
:lol:

Anonymous
Not applicable

Zenbane said:

The hands-on reviews of those with experience using Rift and Vive who also tried Quest agree that the tracking is "Rift-like" and the overall gains from a tetherless self-containing HMD surpass everything released to-date. Reviewers like Tested give it high praises, and even SuperData predicts that it will sell over 1-million units in a short time-frame. Compared to the Vive and Rift which barely sold 1 million units, combined, after 2 years.

3-4 years for inside out to be "as good" is an exaggeration considering that all it needs is an extra camera in the back of the headset!



inovator said:

3 to 4 years before inside out is as good. Talk about making statements like a blind person guessing what color shirt I'm wearing today.


I dont see vision tracking doing 360 on Quest do you? The controllers still have to hit the senors in the front while current tracking methods for both CV1 and Vive allow you to place or have more coverage of area to track outside the Quest limits allowing you to place your controllers behind your back and still be track no problem. Are you two trying to make the claim that vision tracking has magic to track controllers like this already? Far as I know - there is a limit in what vision tracking will be able to capture with either in a price point or a real coverage area of tracking.

Yes, it will be the next generation headsets that will most likely be as good or better than current methods of vision tracking as I am sure they will have figure out how to add more cameras by either placing them on the controllers allowing a disconnection between headset and controllers along with other wearable that will simply "connect" back to the headset for more optional vr gear later on.

As you said - they are "Rift-like" but the "" means it is not 100% the same meaning it is still not as good as the current tracking methods. I think you are confusing between price to performance of coverage area to make the claim that Vive tracking is not the best around. Everyone - even you - said it was the best tracking method around. The downside - is usually cost and it being boxes around the room that is what makes it not the best solution though for everyone witch is not what I said at the start:) So you are assuming something big to make a claim that current vision tracking is better than our current tracking methods for both the CV1 and Vive products.

Not to mention that Valve's tracking couldn't even handle Beat Saber (while Oculus' tracking could):
https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-updated-steamvr-tracking-because-beat-saber-players-were-too-fast/

Despite the challenge, SteamVR Tracking has held up extremely well to Beat Saber’s tracking needs except, it seems, in some edge cases which have now been patched. It’s frankly pretty amazing that the system manages to work as well as it does for the game; Valve ought to be pretty happy that they chose to aim for such a high tracking performance threshold from the outset.

Still - something that was fix pretty easy and it was just a refresh rate issue than it was a coverage or tracking issue. There for - you havent provided any information that they are lacking compare to vision control.


All I can say is, LOL wtf xD I think you guys are drinking the kool aid a bit too much there:) Either way, vision tracking is good enough for now. Next version they release will be a night and day differences to what Quest is using now VT1.0 vs VT2.0.

@Nekto2 there must be IR (or near IR) cameras to defect the controllers LEDs, thery’ve also mentioned the possibility of mixed reality capabilities so I’m guessing visibile through to IR light is all being picked up.
Theres probably a minimum level of light needed for optimum tracking, plus I’m hoping there’s still a small nose gap so we can see if we’ve stepped on our dog/cat/small child

Zenbane
MVP
MVP

Nekto2 said:

How about lighting?
Have not read anything on required room lighting level. Will it work in dark and pitch-dark rooms?
Are those cameras recording IR lite (likely)? So can you get an external IR lamp to make a dark room not so dark for Insight? Can you place stationary IR leds across the room to help Insight?
Is a ceiling the best way to place them? So it will not interfere with multiple players inside a room.

Is there any info on Insight helpers? If you have an empty room for VR what is the best wallpaper pattern to use for better tracking? (for home and LBE use).
Will Oculus sell branded wallpaper for best tracking?



Zenbane
MVP
MVP
@Mradr
I dont see vision tracking doing 360 on Quest do you?

WTF is "vision tracking" ??


As you said - they are "Rift-like" but the "" means it is not 100% the
same meaning it is still not as good as the current tracking methods.

I understand what "like" means in Rift-like. I also said this in the exact same sentence, which you chose to ignore,

"and the overall gains from a tetherless self-containing HMD surpass everything released to-date."


I think you are confusing between price to performance of coverage area
to make the claim that Vive tracking is not the best around.

Nope,
I explained exactly why the Vive tracking is not the best around, and
even gave you a link as to how Vive's tracking couldn't handle Beat
Saber. Perhaps you are confused?

Still - something that was fix pretty easy and it was just a refresh
rate issue than it was a coverage or tracking issue. There for - you
havent provided any information that they are lacking compare to vision
control.

I successfully refuted your claim that Vive Tracking is
"the best." It's not. If it was, then it would not have needed an
update to handle Beat Saber. But it did need an update, because it is
not the best.

You have not provided any information that it is the best. You just keep repeating yourself.

All I can say is, LOL wtf xD I think you guys are drinking the kool aid a bit too much there:

Pot/Kettle. You've been carrying the "anything but Oculus" torch religiously for quite some time now.


Either way, vision tracking is good enough for now.
I
forget, do you even have a working headset right now? List your
currently working VR gear and the last VR experience you actually
enjoyed. For the last year (if not longer), I've never seen you talk
about anything fun you're doing in VR. You seem to just wait
for threads to appear that give you the opportunity to talk negative
about Oculus. It's cute n' all, but is there something constructive in
VR you are doing?


Wildt
Consultant

Zenbane said:

I successfully refuted your claim that Vive Tracking is
"the best." It's not. If it was, then it would not have needed an
update to handle Beat Saber. But it did need an update, because it is
not the best.

To be fair, it was SteamVR that needed to have a programmed limitation removed (or increased), so in essence they changed code that would be executed regardless of hardware, as long as the SteamVR codepath was active.
PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
WMR: HP Reverb

Zenbane
MVP
MVP
Yeah Wildt, I read about that. But that is an issue Valve had, and Valve resolved. 

pyroth309
Visionary
Yea the SteamVR thing only affected the very top players anyway. It remains to be seen if inside out will even be able to play expert+ effectively much less be good enough to run into the ceiling SteamVR had. We shall see. I hope inside out is now good enough to ditch my Rift for everything/game like beat saber, but for a taller person like me, I'm pretty skeptical. If i have to tuck my hands like I do on WMR to stay in the cameras that's a big negative on the enjoyment factor.