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Brace yourselves: Official Rift-S reveal is coming

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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,367 Valuable Player
    This was one of my fears and the reason why I said low cost products are not always the way to go. I think they was just very limited into that 399$ price point that others on this forums thought they would've been able to get more. Honestly  - they should've targeted it for 499$ and added that extra camera, dual fast switch LCD along with that hing xD. I totally understand why the switch between OLED and fast LCD and the lower FPS/Hzs - but the other stuff doesn't make sense to me.
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,758 Volunteer Moderator
    those are fast switching LCD's if you own a GO you will know that the clarity of the image is soooo good.
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,367 Valuable Player
    those are fast switching LCD's if you own a GO you will know that the clarity of the image is soooo good.
    Sure - but that isn't worth the trade off for not using dual screens.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,280 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    those are fast switching LCD's if you own a GO you will know that the clarity of the image is soooo good.

    Yes, as a GO owner I'm very excited at the prospect of a new Rift sharing those lenses!

    In the Tested interview with Nate, it was specifically stated that combining Inside-Out with Outside-In tracking has been considered, and it is not ruled out - but they are going to see how the market responses to the new Rift.

    The new Touch controllers for Rift-S do have the LED constellations, so they can work with the Sensors. Oculus just needs to support it with the software.


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  • WildtWildt Posts: 1,937 Valuable Player
    So, my big "Wired Quest" Told You So, ain't happening. This is more like a wired Go+ :lol:
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,280 Valuable Player
    Wildt said:
    So, my big "Wired Quest" Told You So, ain't happening. This is more like a wired Go+

    Rift-S is combining several existing HMD techs:
    • Quest's inside-out tracking
    • GO's lenses
    • WMR pass-through
    Rift-S is actually a pretty badass HMD the more I'm learning about it. The only problems is that it is a PCVR headset and it doesn't really take full advantage of that platform currently, due to the decrease of 80Hz and of course the move away from external sensors.
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  • DoogukDooguk Posts: 20
    Brain Burst
    edited March 20
    I think I know what the S stands for. :)
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,280 Valuable Player
    Dooguk said:
    I think I know what the S stands for. :)
    I said it first!


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  • WildtWildt Posts: 1,937 Valuable Player
    Totally with you there @pyroth309
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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,882
    Project 2501
    I'm very happy with the specs. I knew there was no chance for a fov increase. The 5th camera is excellent. Overall better than I hoped for. To answer a members question yes this delays the cv2. That's what I have been saying all along. 
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,862 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    Hmmm, the contamination of purity - good thing that both solutions will perfectly hide any scars from the lobotomy surgery on your forehead!  :D




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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,280 Valuable Player

    At the end of the Tested interview with Nate, I do like his response (and facial expression) when asked about Oculus representing those of us who don't mind spending $1000 on a new Headset. I feel that something big is definitely in the works, but the painful part is that we will clearly have to wait longer.

    And we have to wait for the reason we have known for over a year - as Nate just said:
    "Our goal at the end of the day is really to get as many people in to this ecosystem as possible. And that's really what we are pushing on."

    In the meantime, I will probably start looking more closely at HP’s New Reverb VR Headset. It has great spec's (better than Vive Pro and O+), and looks almost exactly like a Rift. This could be my next HMD while I wait for a proper Rift CV2.
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  • DoogukDooguk Posts: 20
    Brain Burst
    edited March 20
    Zenbane said:
    Dooguk said:
    I think I know what the S stands for. :)
    I said it first!
    So you did, well done. Never read all the thread as this is so disappointing. They couldn't even up the FOV, the cheapskates. Kick in the teeth for all the people who have owned CV1 and have been waiting for the next gen. I will not be buying it. No wonder Brendan Iribe left.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,862 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    Zenbane said:

    In the meantime, I will probably start looking more closely at HP’s New Reverb VR Headset. It has great spec's (better than Vive Pro and O+), and looks almost exactly like a Rift. This could be my next HMD while I wait for a proper Rift CV2.

    I've had such disturbing thoughts all day  :s I'm starting to feel like an unfaithful husband  :'( 
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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,882
    Project 2501
    one member said that the reverb had less cameras so the tracking may be inferior.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:

    At the end of the Tested interview with Nate, I do like his response (and facial expression) when asked about Oculus representing those of us who don't mind spending $1000 on a new Headset. I feel that something big is definitely in the works, but the painful part is that we will clearly have to wait longer.

    And we have to wait for the reason we have known for over a year - as Nate just said:
    "Our goal at the end of the day is really to get as many people in to this ecosystem as possible. And that's really what we are pushing on."

    In the meantime, I will probably start looking more closely at HP’s New Reverb VR Headset. It has great spec's (better than Vive Pro and O+), and looks almost exactly like a Rift. This could be my next HMD while I wait for a proper Rift CV2.
    Yea that's kind of where i'm leaning right now. It looks more Rift like than the new Rift lol. I wasn't seriously considering it until this reveal, now I may actually get one.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    inovator said:
    one member said that the reverb had less cameras so the tracking may be inferior.
    It will definitely be inferior, it's just 2 cameras. You could use it with the Vive dildos if you really wanted to spring for them though.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,367 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    I should be clear - this is backwards for the people that have CV1 - if you are new to VR then the Rift S actually makes sense for new users. It is by far less setup and quick in and out fashion for them. Along with that - you do get some updates over today's CV1 that is starting to look dated even when bought brand new. Like I said before as well - this is refresh and I knew this going forward. I just hope this doesn't delay the so call real CV2 product too much. It's totally going to delay it by at least a year though - so if you are looking for the next big jump - you might as well look around for a little bit. Not saying you will find much out there - but this session of updates will be mainly focus on getting new users into VR.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,280 Valuable Player
    Dooguk said:
    They couldn't even up the FOV, the cheapskates. Kick in the teeth for all the people who have owned CV1 and have been waiting for the next gen. I will not be buying it. No wonder Brendan Iribe left.

    I wouldn't call them cheapskates considering how much stuff they have been giving away for free over the last 3 years. They have been losing money due to the low sales volume that all PCVR Vendors have suffered, including HTC and Microsoft. I don't blame Oculus nor Facebook for wanting to turn a profit on their VR investment. I understand how capitalism works.

    Facebook and Oculus have pumped so much money in to the Software Ecosystem in order to lure people to their platform, that it makes sense for them to want to start selling more headsets. And after 3 years of mainstream VR, the global market has made it quite clear that mass adoption requires low-cost and easy setup.

    All that means for the rest of us who are part of the smaller subgroup of consumers who want a proper high-end PCVR Product is that we have to invest elsewhere for the time being. There are other vendor choices.
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  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,361 Volunteer Moderator
    edited March 20
    Slightly wider FOV than rift, slightly higher res. I wonder how big the FOV increase is, because if it's the same percentage increase as res, then pixels per degree won't be better than the rift.

    Things I like:
    - Would be convenient at my work. Setting up sensors is annoying because we have to pack up everything again 2 hours later.
    - Res increase is good to have. 42% increase of pixels.
    - Passthrough AR is cool.
    - Display port cable. That may help with people having laptop issues due to HDMI not hooked to good GPU.
    - LCD panel probably helps with SDE (due to RGB pixels instead of pentile)

    Things I don't like:
    - No headphones. Sounds comes from the headband.
    - There's a headphone socket, but the thickness of the headband means big circumaural headphones probably won't fit (like my Audio Technica or wireless Corsair ones)
    - 80Hz screen (I wonder if this is to counteract the res increase, so similar speced systems are supported?)
    - No hardware IPD.
    - Tracking of touch is done by the headset. This means the controllers can't be tracked when the headset isn't being worn (unless you place the headset as a replacement for a rift sensor). That doesn't affect 99% of users, but it does affect me. I'm working on a project that uses touch without a headset, and I was about to add position tracking to Auto Oculus Touch.


    Questions:
    - Does Insight tracking support true world scale? Is there a range limit? With a laptop in a backpack how far can I walk?
    - Can I wear the Rift S on my forehead like I do with the Rift when I'm developing?
    - How much of a processing hit will Insight tracking add to the PC? Rift had 3 monochrome cameras that needed simple blob tracking. Rift-S has 5 colour cameras that need more advanced SLAM style tracking. Unless the Rift-S has a snapdragon hidden inside, that workload is going to have to be done on the PC. Probably quite a USB load too for all that camera data.
    - What's the inertial tensor of the new Touch? Part of the weight is now above the central axis of your hand, instead of collinear. Probably a very small difference, but still curious.
    - Inside out tracking will have an interesting affect on motion rigs. There's no way to track the rig's motion in the same coordinate space since you can't mount a VR Object (third touch) to it and track from the outside. Plus the tracking may get very confused. Think about the Feel Three dome. The cameras will see everything below you as stationary, but everything above you as moving. How will Rift-S react when half of what it sees is moving and half isn't?
    - Will Oculus add an API similar to Zed have for their AR cameras so we can get depth info and mesh generation?


    Overall, I'm still skeptical about inside out tracking, until I've tested it fully. I like repeatable fixed tracking that isn't affected by lighting (can't use Rift-S in the dark). But I also like it for convenience when using it places other than my home. It looks more convenient for my work.
    Plus reducing god rays is good. (I HATE THEM. Worst part of the Rift for me)
    I've already spent $449 on a Zed Mini camera just to have pass through AR on my Rift. A Rift-S would be able to do the same, without the extra USB cable.
  • ShocksOculusShocksOculus Posts: 402
    Trinity
    inovator said:
    one member said that the reverb had less cameras so the tracking may be inferior.
    2 (HP Reverb)  vs 5 (Rift S)
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  • WildtWildt Posts: 1,937 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    Yeah, I'm deffo getting the HP HMD now for racing sims, unless they somehow drop the ball completely in some unexpected way. But I'll let the first reviews take care of that risk for me :smile:
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,280 Valuable Player
    If the HP Reverb doesn't have a solution for full 360 tracking then... FML. I have no real options lol
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  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 800
    3Jane
    edited March 20
    I'm guessing the slight resolution bump was in line with the 80 hz, to keep PC spec requirements the same. I'd like to know how well the higher resolution out there already fair with PC requirements. My biggest disappointment is the lack of built in headphones. Can't knock the new audio design until I try it, but can't be as immersive as headphones, and there is no way I'm using my own. Integrated headphones was the leading factor in choosing the Rift in the first place.
  • WildtWildt Posts: 1,937 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    If the HP Reverb doesn't have a solution for full 360 tracking then... FML. I have no real options lol
    It won't - 2 camera inside-out mate. I won't be using the controllers at all I reckon :smiley:
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,862 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    one member said that the reverb had less cameras so the tracking may be inferior.
    2 (HP Reverb)  vs 5 (Rift S)

    Tracking may be improved too on the Reverb - compared to early WMR HMDs:

    "When launched, the tracking technology was promising, but it had weaknesses. Rather than the HTC Vive or Facebook Oculus systems, which use separate towers to help tracking, the Reverb uses "inside out tracking," which doesn't require additional hardware and calibration.

    The advantage to inside out tracking is it can be easily moved from room to room. It's somewhat less accurate than using separate towers, however, and issues arise when a hand moves out of view of the inside out tracking. (Read our review of a Mixed Reality headset for more details.) HP officials say improved algorithms have addressed such issues to some degree. 

    What's also really helped is improved Bluetooth. The original Mixed Reality headsets counted on Bluetooth support in a gaming PC to handle the connection. HP discovered that subpar Bluetooth implementations were a weak link in the experience. By integrating a Bluetooth radio directly into Reverb's headset, HP can better guarantee a level of connection quality. "

    https://www.pcworld.com/article/3367755/hp-reverb-vr-headset-price-features-hands-on.html


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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,280 Valuable Player
    I'm guessing that the Headphones/Audio choice was their way of being able to increase the visuals while still keeping the price under $400.
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