Brace yourselves: Official Rift-S reveal is coming

kevinw729 · March 21

inovator said:

I predict many of the gripers will report the rift s was better than they thought and make it a buy after a few on line reviewer give much more comprehensive reviews.

I think you are right - especially with the price difference on some alternative to the Rift-S. There is also the possibility that compromises will be made down the road and audio will be revised or IPD added. The big issue is a possible AAA game in the works that could sway buyers. Reports from GDC are saying that

Asgard's Wrath - Oculus

Could be a "must have" game that could lock in buyers to the platform? All these are possibilities, but to bet all this on a throw of the dice this bad seems...weird?

inovator · March 21

Sensors high up for great tracking. My situation was I had to keep them lower. I had far from perfect tracking because I didn't have a way to place them high.I bet for me the s will have better tracking. Eeehaaaaa!!

Andr0ss987 · March 21

the night brings the advice they said ... for me it was a big disappointment ... I had to do somersaults to get the rift few weeks ago and I bought it because all in all it was the best among those at low cost, despite the screendor and godrays, the average comfort with glasses, and even if I had to keep the sensors and the headset near the PC in a small room, which prevents me from being detected when I fold or turn ... but I gave up and bought it since there was not the least indication of a short-term successor, and above all the price would have been decidedly different ... and now? after few weeks boom, almost everything I wanted and could be useful and it costs almost as much, so much so as to prevent me from selling this now it will be so devalued ... excuse the explosion a bit useless, but I'm a little pissed off of this surprise, missed the past when usually it toke some months between an announcement about tecnology and the product release...

sorry for my bad english.

MowTin · March 21

Zenbane said:

https://youtu.be/2vtryRHVg_I?t=635

So what's your plan here, MowTin. Do you think that just because we aren't all in the same room looking at you while the video plays, that you're just gonna keep pretending that we can't see the same thing? lol

Relax, nobody is cherrypicking anything. I quoted Nate talking about his experience. He said, "I was able to get a full range of movement." He then said he needed to do more testing. All the reviewers I've seen have said they had no problems with the tracking except for a few spots.

My only point is that even with 3 sensors you can still have issues. I play a lot of games seated near my desk and I can lose tracking because of my chair and desk whereas the Rift - S would be able to handle those situations. So, there are pros and cons for each regarding tracking.

The bottom line is Tested had a very positive opinion about tracking. They cautioned that they need to do more testing.

There's nothing for us to disagree about. Everything I said is true. Everything you said is true.

snowdog · March 21

All this will be moot soon anyway, Oculus are bound to add sensor support sooner rather than later. Probably before the thing launches imo.

Zenbane · March 21

MowTin said:
Relax, nobody is cherrypicking anything. I quoted Nate talking about his experience. He said, "I was able to get a full range of movement." He then said he needed to do more testing.

Yes I know what you quoted, and I know what you keep ignoring. Here's what Nate said (again):

You're absolutely right that given that the sensors on the headset are tracking the controllers, there are going to be certain places where you're able to occlude the controller from the headset (Nate puts his hands behind his back). Or up close (Nate puts his hands on his forehead). That's exactly right. There are basically two areas that are problematic.

Keep ignoring that if you want, I'll just keep reminding you.

My only point is that even with 3 sensors you can still have issues.

Maybe "general issues," but we are talking about something very specific. Read Nate's quote again to get an idea of what those specific tracking issues entail. With 2, 3, or 4 external sensors... the issues Nate describes are resolved. The Rift-S introduced problems that were already eliminated with a multi-sensor setup.

The bottom line is Tested had a very positive opinion about tracking.

Nope. The bottom line is that everyone, including Tested and Nate, acknowledge that there are "two areas that are problematic" when it comes to tracking.

inovator · March 21

Don't worry it will all be good.

Mradr · March 21

It just exist in this case - I can't say its good or bad - but it does exist as far as how the new tracking works with the current device configuration. Hard as you might fight it - the new tracking method is only about 80-85% as good as the current. Now it is debatable as far as what is easier to setup and what require less troubleshooting if there is a problem.

If we could use our current tracking as an option - I think it be fine as it would give an option to get slightly better tracking or use its tracking for easy setup and go. That would be amazing.

Zenbane · March 21

inovator said:

Don't worry it will all be good.

snowdog said:

All this will be moot soon anyway, Oculus are bound to add sensor support sooner rather than later. Probably before the thing launches imo.

Yes to both! I have no doubt that the CV2 will be up to par, the problem is obviously the wait time. The Rift-S is a concern in regards to the tracking, which you should certainly understand snowdog since that was one of the main reasons behind your "I'm jumping ship" thread! lol

The arguments yesterday were more fact-based. The arguments today seem to be more centered on a blend between theory and fantasy. People here and on Facebook are all pretending that tracking is great; all pretending that Nate and Tested didn't literally talk about the tracking problems. It's an odd thing.

KlodsBrik · March 21

Were all looking forward to Lone Echo 2, I mean, it must have been tested with Rift-s how bad can the tracking be afterall ?

davejohnblack · March 21

Imagining rift users playing games with their hands tied behind their backs... 😃

Maybe a football game or like the prodigy music video...

David

inovator · March 21

Mardr setup is not debatable. If you can permanently place sensors and have a dedicated room it's easy peasy
If not its a pain in the ass. Kick and scream all you want sensors are being phased out eventually. And when cv2 comes out, I believe tracking will be as good in my opinion. If they decide for now to continue sensors it will still eventually be gone. If oculus quest totally blows away and dwarfs the rift s and I mean an unexpected major monster blowing it away, you may not even see oculus coming out with cv2. Of course that's a huge if.

MowTin · March 21

Zenbane said:
Nope. The bottom line is that everyone, including Tested and Nate, acknowledge that there are "two areas that are problematic" when it comes to tracking.

Yes, but they all felt that this was rather inconsequential. Their opinion of the tracking was very positive.

Here are two more very respected VR YouTube commentators. They both say, "The tracking is flawless."

Will you deny that these two in this video, are saying "The tracking is flawless"?

I'm not saying the tracking is flawless. I'm saying the flaws are on par with the flaws of the current Rift with multi sensors DEPENDING on your room setup (furniture obstructing cameras). I don't think tracking is the big issue with the Rift-S.

Now the LCD vs OLED is a big issue. But again, that's a trade off. Better clarity overall vs better blacks. It's a subjective choice.

RedRizla · March 21

I'm still finding it mind boggling why they didn't just put Oculus Quest screens in Rift 2. I'm trying to find one good reason why they didn't do this and I can't think of one. I can find good reasons for them to have used Oculus Quest screens, which makes it all the more difficult to understand why they didn't. Had Rift -S used Oculus Quest screens then number 1) it would have made more CV1 users upgrade and 2) It would be a much better experience for those new to PC -VR.

The only one thing I can think of is that they intend dropping the Rift -S price in a matter of months to £299 to £350, because that's what Rift -S is worth when everything is taken into account.

MowTin · March 21

inovator said:

Mardr setup is not debatable. If you can permanently place sensors and have a dedicated room it's easy peasy
If not its a pain in the ass. Kick and scream all you want sensors are being phased out eventually. And when cv2 comes out, I believe tracking will be as good in my opinion. If they decide for now to continue sensors it will still eventually be gone. If oculus quest totally blows away and dwarfs the rift s and I mean an unexpected major monster blowing it away, you may not even see oculus coming out with cv2. Of course that's a huge if.

Very few people have a dedicated room. I have an office. The third sensor has a long USB traveling across the floor and up the wall. It's ugly. And all my USB ports are used up. And we haven't even touched on the problems of USB disconnect issues some people face. And then there is the portability issue.

DaftnDirect · March 21

Could be a supply issue, I've no idea what the implications are for producing those screens for the Quest and Rift-S... it could have been a toss-up deciding which device merited them more. Maybe the Quest was deemed to be more important as it's more of a make-or-break for stand-alone.

Also, I'm not going to judge until I try it what the implications are of less than staller blacks. We need to remember that with the current Rift, god rays don't disappear in bright or evenly lit scenes... they just appear all over so aren't notable as rays... they instead manifest as poor contrast. So some of the bad issues with LCD will be negated by the better lenses.

I'm not saying that OLED wouldn't have been better, I'm just not going to judge the overall quality until I see it.

JD-UK · March 21

Zenbane said:

Brixmis said:

I could swear I heard the Oculus guy saying this headset isn't aimed at current Rift owners. So why are people who have a Rift constantly moaning about how they don't want a Rift S?

Because "the guy" also said that the Rift CV1 is being phased out. Why are you moaning about moaning?

Well, seeing you're the champion of it, I guessed you would know

snowdog · March 21

RedRizla said:

I'm still finding it mind boggling why they didn't just put Oculus Quest screens in Rift 2. I'm trying to find one good reason why they didn't do this and I can't think of one. I can find good reasons for them to have used Oculus Quest screens, which makes it all the more difficult to understand why they didn't. Had Rift -S been given Oculus Quest screens then number 1) it would have made more CV1 users upgrade and number 2) It would be a much better experience for those new to PC -VR.

The only one thing I can think of is that they intend dropping the Rift -S price in a matter of months to £299, because that's what Rift -S is worth when everything is taken into account.

It has nothing to do with cost. The timeline for the latest Oculus headset development went in this order:

Quest -> Go -> Rift S

Carmack said that if the Quest was developed sooner they would have bunged BOE's LCDs in it, so if the Quest and Go switched places in that timeline they would ALL have LCDs in. Carmack is a fan of those fast-switch LCDs because there's lower persistence in them vs the OLEDs in the current Rift and Quest.

I don't think we'll see a price cut so soon because the Go, Quest and Rift S products have had Hartmann involved right from the start so he would have got costs down as far as they can go right now. Perhaps next year we'll see a price cut for the Rift S but not before imo.

RedRizla · March 21

@DaftnDirect - I see what you are saying, but when you consider the much better hardware of Oculus Quest, then I'm not sure they can justify the price of Rift -S. The Rift -S should be a £299 headset when you considering the lack of Oled screens and other hardware that Oculus Quest has got.

DaftnDirect · March 21

ah yeah, price is a another matter and I'd loved to have seen maybe $50 less on the Rift-S tag.

I think it'll still be a price that'll attract who it needs to attract though... and no doubt will drop by $50 by Christmas (or maybe even before).

MowTin · March 21

Here's another VR YouTube guy who is praising the tracking...

"I tried the tracking. I really tried to hold my hands like here and on my head. It was...it was prefect."

Like everyone else he does complain about the black levels due to the LCD screens. I guess I'll have to buy it and try it to know if the loss of black is worth it. I do know the brain interprets black at times so maybe it's not a big deal.

ShocksVR · March 21

IMO, Oculus is probably making some money on the new Rift-S. Whereas the old CV1, they we're probably charging at cost or losing money (since it had more components).

It's also a bit unfair to compare it to Quest. I know many think the Rift-S should be cheaper than the Quest, but for all we know it probably is. But it's Facebook/Oculus taking a loss on the hardware. Seriously, at OC5 when they announced Quest at $399 ppl at OC5, reddit, tech blogs were pretty shocked.

So why can Oculus subsidize Quest but not Rift-S? Because of the store.

- Quest is a console. All games/apps will be purchased via Oculus.
- Rift-S is a PC headset. Games/apps are purchased from Oculus and STEAM.

I actually thought the low cost of the Rift Cv1 would eventually come to an end; despite the fantasy predictions made on reddit. As long as Rift owners buy their games on STEAM, then it makes ZERO sense for Oculus to subsidize the cost.

Thus, I always was of the mindset if Oculus can keep future reiterations around $400, then it should be a good product for PC VR users (looks like Nate agrees). However, I don't discount the inclusion of a Rift Pro for those willing to pay more. But the base Rift should be in "that ballpark figure of around $350".

-----

Regarding screens, I know ppl like to crap on it, but trust me the LCD screen isn't all the bad. I have a GO, and the combo of the RGB screen and new lenses is pretty good (and probably cost efficient). Seriously, the 1440p RGB probably is comparable to a 1600p Pentile. For example: the Rift is 1200p Pentile, in comparison the PSVR is 1000p RGB. Yet, I can say the PSVR actually looks pretty good compared to the Rift CV1.

There's a reason Ben Lang from RoadToVR said the display on the Rift-S has one of the better clarity on the market. He put it in a nothc below VivePro. https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/b3ebw4/hey_roculus_ive_used_every_recently_launched_or/eiz1mqh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

Let's talk about "clarity" (which I use as an overarching term for how 'clear/immersive' the view through the headset looks, and factors in display characteristics and lenses). I'm going to exclude Varjo and Pimax because those are more niche headsets and harder to make a direct comparison for a simple list.

More Clarity

Reverb
Vive Pro
Rift S
Quest
Go
Rift

Less Clarity

Initially, I wasn't going to upgrade to a Rift-S, but the more I read and the more I go back to my GO, the more I want those optics in my Rift. And with the easier setup, friendliness for EYE GLASSES, removal of the USB bandwidth issues, and the inclusion of the new Passthrough feature, I'm gonna buy it. I think my 3 sensor Rift can probably fetch at least $150 for a quick sale, which brings the cost of the Rift-S down to $250 for me.

RuneSR2 · March 21

MowTin said:

Like everyone else he does complain about the black levels due to the LCD screens. I guess I'll have to buy it and try it to know if the loss of black is worth it. I do know the brain interprets black at times so maybe it's not a big deal.

I guess there's a lot of truth to the saying "once you go black you'll never go back"

snowdog · March 21

Or once you go Harv you're never as suave

pyroth309 · March 21

Zenbane said:

bigmike20vt said:
however a vive pro with BS 2.0 & knuckles for £600....... that would give me a major incentive to jump ship

I love that no matter how many years go by with the Knuckles remaining unreleased... people still talk about them as if they are a real consumer option lol

I was literally going to say the same thing. Until the Knuckles are in the store, they're as real as Halflife 3 to me.

pyroth309 · March 21

snowdog said:

All this will be moot soon anyway, Oculus are bound to add sensor support sooner rather than later. Probably before the thing launches imo.

I think they probably will try not to because they probably don't want to keep producing the sensors.

TomCgcmfc · March 21

It will be interesting to see if the Rift-S can use the free Oculus app Sensor Bounds in order to display the actual tracking volume, and maybe help to show what inside-out tracking with the Rift-S actually is. Just a thought. I use this app to help optimise my cv1 2x sensors placement and it works great.

https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/65319/sensor-bounds-free-rift-app-that-shows-you-your-sensor-s-tracking-volume-from-inside-vr

Zenbane · March 21

MowTin said:
Yes, but they all felt that this was rather inconsequential. Their opinion of the tracking was very positive.

That is not true; that is how you are trying to spin it.

MowTin said:

Will you deny that these two in this video, are saying "The tracking is flawless"?

I've already seen that video, and again... that's a video where people use it to talk about how it is "not flawless." I am not going to transcribe yet another video for you! lol

The two videos you have posted clearly talk about the problems with tracking. You just intentionally choose to ignore them.

I'm not saying the tracking is flawless.

wtf, you are literally quoting the phrase, "the tracking is flawless."

Zenbane · March 21

Brixmis said:

Zenbane said:

Brixmis said:

I could swear I heard the Oculus guy saying this headset isn't aimed at current Rift owners. So why are people who have a Rift constantly moaning about how they don't want a Rift S?

Because "the guy" also said that the Rift CV1 is being phased out. Why are you moaning about moaning?

Well, seeing you're the champion of it, I guessed you would know

Everyone in this thread is talking about it because everyone heard the same thing. It's not about championing a product, it's about understanding and comprehension. I champion understanding and comprehension for sure. You should try it some time

ohgrant · March 21

Not sure at this point what will be my next purchase. Modding my Vive with the gear VR lenses gave me greater appreciation for the importance of the optics for me to get the most immersive experience. I was still using my DK2 when I got my gear VR. When I first got my Rift those ridged plastic Fresnel lenses were a bit of a disappointment when it came to watching 3D movies and apps that were cross platform to gear VR and CV1 and didn't really benefit from PC mojo. When I picked up my Vive real cheap, first thing I noticed was the image quality was pretty much unbearable to me with those hazy optics.
I'm not sure if the lenses in the Gear VR are considered Fresnel. They don't have the layered ridges the Vive and Rift has, completely smooth convex lens just like all the ghetto mobile VR headsets, but much higher quality, I've seen. It seems like those ridged outer ring lenses are a premium feature only on high end VR gear.
To my eyes what those ridged outer rings do it add a bit of haze and blurriness, create a sweet spot and magnify a bit, slightly making the SDE more apparent there but blur the outer area. Also the cause of godrays Makes me think it's designed purpose was kind of a built in comfort mode. . With the lens mod, there is no sweet spot, SDE is apparent less at the sweet spot IMO , maximum super sampling and no ridges has made me content with current gear. The Rifts optics suffer to a much lesser degree than the stock Vive optics. If the lenses in the R-S are of the same smooth design as the Gear VR lenses, I'll probably get one sooner or later.
I'm going to keep my money ready for the inevitable price war when Vive releases their outsourced mobile/PC offering.
At the end of the day I think it all will have a good effect on the VR scene if sales permit, there will be more people buying VR games and apps. The lower specs will force the devs to do more with less in a x86 Win environment.

Brace yourselves: Official Rift-S reveal is coming

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Asgard's Wrath - Oculus

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Brace yourselves: Official Rift-S reveal is coming

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Asgard's Wrath - Oculus

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