03-22-2019 06:27 AM
03-22-2019 01:16 PM
03-23-2019 12:04 AM
03-23-2019 01:02 AM
03-23-2019 02:09 AM
Cain_Bloodbane said:
First I was excited about the Rift S... it has a lot of what I hoped to see in a new Rift headset. It also made sense to replace the current Rift. But the more I think about it, the more of a problem I see with this. Already the Rift is not being sold by Oculus in the US. I expect it will be the same in Europe and Australia soon as well.
The problem is Oculus knows and says themselves that there are blind spots for the Rift S tracking. I really like the inside out tracking concept... but there needs to be an alternative as long as inside out tracking is not 360 tracking. The Rift S is said to have 300 degrees of tracking, there is also a blind spot close to your face, and these 60 degrees behind you. That is a problem for several games I think. Especially Lone Echo, Lone Echo 2 and Echo VR.
How can Oculus justify this move, while having Rift exclusive games, some that have not even been released yet, that will have issues with only 300 degrees of tracking?
I have not even heard anything about predictive algorithms and 3DoF tracking while out of sensor range. What I have heard though, is that Oculus "might" make it possible to use the Rift sensors to help the Rift S with its tracking... but as I see it, they need to confirm a solution to this as soon as possible. They cannot make exclusive deals and then backstab loyal developers, and the people who will be new Oculus VR owners this way.
I am really looking forward to the Quest, but... if this is how Oculus is moving forward, burning bridges this way, I think I will wait for alternatives because they do not seem to have any loyalty to their users or developers.
Am I the only one who sees a pretty big problem here? I sure hope its not as bad as it seems.
03-23-2019 02:19 AM
True. Just as we would all be worshipping horse drawn carriages right now if we weren't born in to the era of motor vehicles first.
I kid, I kid. Your post was actually inspiring - the way you described the learning/predictive algorithms. But you ended by basically implying that Rift CV1 is still better which killed the momentum! Taking your descriptions and first-hand experience at face-value, I'm actually now open to giving Rift-S a chance. Great feedback!
03-23-2019 05:17 AM
Woody3D said:
Cain_Bloodbane said:
First I was excited about the Rift S... it has a lot of what I hoped to see in a new Rift headset. It also made sense to replace the current Rift. But the more I think about it, the more of a problem I see with this. Already the Rift is not being sold by Oculus in the US. I expect it will be the same in Europe and Australia soon as well.
The problem is Oculus knows and says themselves that there are blind spots for the Rift S tracking. I really like the inside out tracking concept... but there needs to be an alternative as long as inside out tracking is not 360 tracking. The Rift S is said to have 300 degrees of tracking, there is also a blind spot close to your face, and these 60 degrees behind you. That is a problem for several games I think. Especially Lone Echo, Lone Echo 2 and Echo VR.
How can Oculus justify this move, while having Rift exclusive games, some that have not even been released yet, that will have issues with only 300 degrees of tracking?
I have not even heard anything about predictive algorithms and 3DoF tracking while out of sensor range. What I have heard though, is that Oculus "might" make it possible to use the Rift sensors to help the Rift S with its tracking... but as I see it, they need to confirm a solution to this as soon as possible. They cannot make exclusive deals and then backstab loyal developers, and the people who will be new Oculus VR owners this way.
I am really looking forward to the Quest, but... if this is how Oculus is moving forward, burning bridges this way, I think I will wait for alternatives because they do not seem to have any loyalty to their users or developers.
Am I the only one who sees a pretty big problem here? I sure hope its not as bad as it seems.
NO. It is definitely not as bad as it seems. I have a Rift (I have since the beginning!) I also have a Samsung Odyssey. After thinking about the tracking situation, I think the most revealing thing I can say is this:
When I used my Samsung Odyssey in the first weeks, it was hard to get used to. then they started to increase the 'intelligence' of the software, giving it predictive, and reactive algorithms. Now, when I am in Lone Echo, The Climb, Time Transit, or JET ISLAND, I no longer notice any problems at all with the tracking, as a VR Developer, I am highly adaptive yes, but they ALSO, made it much better, If you reach behind you to grab something, then pull your arm back the rock or Arrow or Flashlight is indeed in your hand,.
. It is perfectly able (check out your shadows!) to track your hand behind you, and then even though it is completely out of sight, TRACK YOUR HAND BACK with smart algorithms they evolved using our own game play styles.
If my Odyssey wit it's 2 cameras can do that, bring me to what I would estimate is fully 90-95% of the full tracked experience, then 5 Cameras, is a HUGE BOON,. I suspect the tracking will be ROCK SOLID. One would have to REALLY twist to get it out of all sight, AND EVEN THEN THE PREDICTIVE ALGORITHMS WOULD COME INTO PLAY MAKING IT EVEN LESS LIKELY ONE WOULD NOTICE ANY PROBLEM!
The screen may not be a LED,.. BUT it has I believe 1/3 more sub-pixels than the VIVE Pro! I have a feeling, one would very quickly adapt to that too, The level of CLARITY and Lowered God Rays and a slight FOV Bump (I have heard) , the GREAT THINGS people say about the Go!'s Screen and Lenses,.. I think the dark levels with be something we adapt to (OR FIND A WAY TO GET AROUND USING GPU Screen Output controls Gamma adjust etc...) I think it will be a STUNNER...
My only problem, is that as a self-incarcerated Oculus Exclusive Developer (LOL I feel I owe them a few 'gratitude games'!) with 4 QUEST Games in the works, I will almost certainly HAVE to buy a QUEST to really make sure my games work and are accepted the first time (I don't want to waste their time, I keep what I call a 'Carmack Checklist' of acceptable game variables, features, options, preferred compression/optimization schemes, Texture-Atlasing, Procedural/Variable based materials where possible etc. etc.)
My releases, are NOT little games, (one is,..) they are near AAA, pre-naturally optimized to near miraculous levels, but with the look of extreme photoreal, immersive warmth, imperfect imperfections,. etc.. ! (I use light, cheap, Facial Bones instead of Morph Targets, Edge fading algorithms to make flat-plane opacity mapped Trees etc, look normal...) Ahem. :)_
SOOO,. MY Biggest Problem now:
I almost HAVE to get a QUEST but really WANT A RIFT S! It is basically impossible for me to get both. If only the Quest could be hooked up to PC>.. Or maybe even just .. 'receive a test build' from Unreal via WIFI or something? (Though that would not allow for working IN VR Editor mode, which I do whenever possible too,.
Anyways long story short, I am a Developer and I am now, (having really thought about it, considered all the variables,). quite happy with both new devices, Just.. not thatI will have to choose between them. and continue with my old Rift for,. a very long time until I release my games... (Which WILL Sell, I worked on film, TV (and games) in Hollywood for 25 years, as Visual FX and Character Animator. I worked on the Hollywood Film Life of Pi 3D, I worked at Activision, Praxis Filmworks, Warner Bros. I had an Animated TV show in the early 90's. I am bringing all that experience to my Solo-Produced, Self-Taught Games,. I am different, THEY will be very different,..
About Rift S:
Remember my Friend, Just 4 short, pre-CV1 years ago -> We would be MINDS BLOWN, DROOLING FOOLS, DOWN ON OUR KNEE's doing "We're Not Worthy!" bows: if we hadn't had the RIFT before this. It's all relative!
As for demanding 360° Room Scale games, they are just going to have to get used to being ARENA SCALE! 🙂
🙂
Robert ('Woody') England
@NextWorldVR
@SchoolHomeVR
03-23-2019 11:27 PM
03-29-2019 04:41 PM