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Rift owners upgrade to Rift_S or HP Reverb

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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 8,058 Valuable Player
    edited March 2019
    @pyroth309 - I know it's really frustrating and has left me not knowing what to do to do tbh. A Rift -S with Quest screens would have being a dream come for the majority of people and not caused such a divide. That's why I can't get my head around Oculus doing this.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,527 Valuable Player
    edited March 2019
    RedRizla said:
    @pyroth309 - I know it's really frustrating and has left me not knowing what to do to do tbh. A Rift -S with Quest screens would have being a dream come for the majority of people and not caused such a divide. That's why I can't get my head around Oculus doing this.
    Yea that's what I wanted. The loss of the audio really hits the hardest for me as I always thought Rift CV1 was best in class in this department. So far reviews aren't that great about the tube audio deal. Seems even Oculus is now considering an Over-Ear accessory.

    When I go from my O+ back to the CV1 I'm like holy cow the O+'s sound sucks! It's really night and day especially in Beat saber. People will point to the 3.5mm jack and that I can just bring my own but that's one of the things I hate the most about PSVR is having it be a 2 step process with putting on the headset and earbuds which I don't like anyway. Always been an over ear headphone user. There's a lot of benefit and convenience to having the CV1 act like a ballcap where I slip it on and I'm playing and take it off as needed. Simple and painless. That alone wouldn't be a dealbreaker but every little thing adds up. I'll stop there as I don't want to go into everything that bothers me about Rift-S when it's clear I'm not the intended audience. 

  • Cpt_CustardCpt_Custard Posts: 135
    Art3mis
    RedRizla said:
    Well I read an article that said $399 amounts to £300 here in the United Kingdom. If it's £300 I'll pick Rift-S up. but if it's £399 I won't. 
    You can bet it will be £399, this always happens to us in the UK
  • kojackkojack Posts: 7,227 Volunteer Moderator
    pyroth309 said:
    People will point to the 3.5mm jack and that I can just bring my own

    When I use headphones at home, I use large circumaural ones (go around your ear, not on). Those won't work well with Rift-S, the headband is so thick that it will lift the top of the headphones away from my head, so they sit on an angle.


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  • MradrMradr Posts: 4,179 Valuable Player
    edited March 2019
    kojack said:
    pyroth309 said:
    People will point to the 3.5mm jack and that I can just bring my own

    When I use headphones at home, I use large circumaural ones (go around your ear, not on). Those won't work well with Rift-S, the headband is so thick that it will lift the top of the headphones away from my head, so they sit on an angle.


    My problem is my headphones require an AMP - so unless they provide one - it's not going to work for me either. It's a nice option to have - but like I said too - removing one of them little things is a step backwards when the idea is just simple get into VR and out. Having to deal with extra stuff (no matter how much more time it takes) is just one more one thing that a user has to deal with each time.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,527 Valuable Player

    Interesting takeaways from the Reverb. 115 degrees FoV, less blur from edge to edge...yeaaa I think I finally have my simming headset.


  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 8,058 Valuable Player
    @pyroth309 - What Graphics card do you have? I have a Geforce 1080 and I'm not sure if that's going to be good enough for DCS World or X Plane 11 with this headset.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,527 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    @pyroth309 - What Graphics card do you have? I have a Geforce 1080 and I'm not sure if that's going to be good enough for DCS World or X Plane 11 with this headset.
    1080 for now. The recommended specs of this device is a 1080, odds are it will be less than ideal for DCS or Xplane. I'm hoping it works fine for IL-2, Aces High (should), and Dirt Rally and other games. Doubt Project cars 2 is doable. We will have to see. I have money set aside for as soon as Nvidia decides to release an Ampere card but sadly they're too busy selling old inventory for the foreseeable future.
  • pjennesspjenness Posts: 692
    Neo
    Dilip said:
    Have seen wonderful announcements but made me wonder due to not so big difference in pricing and great difference in resolution 
    my wonder is those who already own RIFT and wish to upgrade will they upgrade to RIFT S .. (will it really be an upgrade?) or they 
    switch to HP REVERB which is very strong opponent  IMO due to visual fidelity and nice ergonomics... VR WARS are upon us.  
    I own rift and Go.
    I doubt I'll upgrade from Rift to S  unless something specific gets my attention that needs S.

    However, Quest looks like a HUGE jump from Go (portable wireless) so I am quite interested in Quest.

    I'll happily save for another year or 2 for the next round of Rift. ( Or where The rift and quest lines finally merge)
    -P
    Drift VFX Visual, Virtual , Vertical

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    https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=17349
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 8,058 Valuable Player
    @pyroth309 - Just one other thing to note do you know if this headsets got a fixed lead? Given these leads can wear out due to bending them over a period of time, I'm hoping the lead can be replaced.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,527 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    @pyroth309 - Just one other thing to note do you know if this headsets got a fixed lead? Given these leads can wear out due to bending them over a period of time, I'm hoping the lead can be replaced.
     I haven't seen an official comment on it, but i've seen it in several places, reddit etc that it's detachable and replaceable just like the Audio.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,527 Valuable Player
    edited March 2019
    pyroth309 said:
    RedRizla said:
    @pyroth309 - Just one other thing to note do you know if this headsets got a fixed lead? Given these leads can wear out due to bending them over a period of time, I'm hoping the lead can be replaced.
     I haven't seen an official comment on it, but i've seen it in several places, reddit etc that it's detachable and replaceable just like the Audio.
    I just found this in google, considering the professional version ships with seperate cables, I'd think it's safe to say the consumer one can be swapped too (but it's not included).


  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 8,058 Valuable Player
    pyroth309 said:
    pyroth309 said:
    RedRizla said:
    @pyroth309 - Just one other thing to note do you know if this headsets got a fixed lead? Given these leads can wear out due to bending them over a period of time, I'm hoping the lead can be replaced.
     I haven't seen an official comment on it, but i've seen it in several places, reddit etc that it's detachable and replaceable just like the Audio.
    I just found this in google, considering the professional cable ships with seperate cables, I'd think it's safe to say the consumer one can be swapped too (but it's not included).



    Come to think of it, I think I remember seeing that the professional one comes with both a long and short lead & the consumer one coming with a long lead with an option to purchase a shorter lead if you want one.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,527 Valuable Player
    edited March 2019
    RedRizla said:
    pyroth309 said:
    pyroth309 said:
    RedRizla said:
    @pyroth309 - Just one other thing to note do you know if this headsets got a fixed lead? Given these leads can wear out due to bending them over a period of time, I'm hoping the lead can be replaced.
     I haven't seen an official comment on it, but i've seen it in several places, reddit etc that it's detachable and replaceable just like the Audio.
    I just found this in google, considering the professional cable ships with seperate cables, I'd think it's safe to say the consumer one can be swapped too (but it's not included).



    Come to think of it, I think I remember seeing that the professional one comes with both a long and short lead & the consumer one coming with a long lead with an option to purchase a shorter lead if you want one.
    Yea, I'm impressed with the quality of the headset. The detachable audio and faceplates are fantastic. I mean it looks like an improved CV1. If it only had a 4 camera tracking system it would be near perfect. But the Tracking is a definite real problem for some games and situations. I still want to see how bad it looks in Elite Dangerous. I mean I know it won't be AS black as an OLED, but if it looks good enough I'm sold as that's one of the games I want sharp visuals for the most.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 8,058 Valuable Player
    Yeah, I too wish it had 4 camera's, but that guy in the video you posted seems to think it's not much of a problem 90% of the time.
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,863 Volunteer Moderator
    I think I'm sold on this, I'm just going to hold out for users hands on review post release before I jump in. For sims I think this will be a good step up.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,527 Valuable Player
    To answer a question from yesterday, I was just playing with my Odyssey and with my arms out around 170 degrees and still have full tracking. Around 180 it get sketchy with me looking straight.  Front hemisphere from the headset is pretty accurate description.
  • hangbillhangbill Posts: 3
    NerveGear
    Not sure if this is old news or not but I enjoyed these Blunty videos, who goes into some depth re strengths / weaknesses of WMR tracking. For those folk who haven't seen them =>





  • MradrMradr Posts: 4,179 Valuable Player
    edited March 2019
    For me - the videos show a real limitation of what happens when the cameras are not looking at the controllers - Maybe I am excepting more - but yea I mean sure it works well for most things - but not everything. Over all WMX has many short comings when it  comes to tracking of the controllers still let alone the design and shape of the controllers. If this translate to the Rift S - there will be times where it'll mess up where on the CV1 it work just fine. If you are willing to work with the tracking just a hair - I think vision tracking works well - but there are still some downsides to it that need to be work out either way. 

    As of right now - I think the tracking should be the least of everyone worries with the 5 camera tracking - sure I will agree it needs another camera or two for covering the back/sides, but It looks pretty good if you don't mind working with it. Its the other directions I more worried about for the over all product. Still, I think I will stand my ground on my first thought - Rift S will be good for newer users - but if you have a CV1 - you might hold out till they release the next CV2 as this seems more of a refresh. Granted - if your CV1 is also being flacky/not working - I wouldn't buy a new/used CV1 - but looking at getting the Rift S instead. The CV1 is old and is really showing its age right now - but the current tracking method is nothing to sneeze at either.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,527 Valuable Player
    Those are older videos, WMR was improved a lot since then. I don't have half the problems he was experiencing with my Odyssey. Reaching behind you though is a problem if you take longer than two seconds. That's just a shortcoming of WMR.
  • hangbillhangbill Posts: 3
    NerveGear
    edited March 2019
    For me I can absolutely live with this tracking, if the Reverb's resolution is a serious upgrade. Can't wait for in-depth reviews... .
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,527 Valuable Player
    edited March 2019
    hangbill said:
    For me I can absolutely live with this tracking, if the resolution is a serious upgrade. Can't wait for in-depth reviews... .
    Yea It's really not bad in its current state. The Rift-S should be far superior on tracking to WMR, just because of the side cameras. That solves the biggest weakness of WMR for me is if I'm looking left or right and I lose tracking in the opposite hand that is now behind the cameras. Then they put the one on top for a bonus which is another shortcoming of WMR. Reaching high above past 2 seconds requires you to look up or you will lose tracking. I have a habit of doing things out of eyesight in real life and this is annoying. It's a small adjustment but worth mentioning. As far as playability, at this point, I feel confident in that you can play just about anything except games that have a lot of out of camera requirements like Echo Arena. You could play that too but you'll have to modify how you play and probably be at a disadvantage.

    They've done a good job though at allowing you to regain tracking quickly when you reenter camera at least. So if i lose tracking looking right in my left hand, if i just bring it over it's actually tracking before it enters my peripheral. This is helpful to keep the illusion that you had tracking even though you really don't. In the cliff house there's lasers coming off the hands and I can tell when I'm still tracking out there or not and I've done some tests.
  • Little.Robot.FairyLittle.Robot.Fairy Posts: 20
    NerveGear
    I have sent my Rift in for repairs several times now. Or have had to go without because of cables breaking or no longer working, giving me black screens and sometimes prismatic looking white screens. And every time this has happened I've bought or gone back to a WMR headset as a temporarily fix. But every time, it's also made me realize how much I miss Rift for its tracking and quality of life features.

    Among them is a Samsung Odyssey+. Which has the same resolution as the Vive Pro, plus a smoothing anti-screendoor technology. And I must say, an improved resolution is very nice. I don't think it's as nice as having a wider field of view would be. But everything looks so much cleaner and clearer and alive. And by comparison, the blurriness of the Oculus can give me a bit of a headache in comparison, especially if I'm trying to read anything or make out finer details.

    But even the best WMR right now on the market, the Odyssey+, has awful tracking in comparison to Oculus Rift. It makes playing anything feel clunky, uncomfortable, and unreliable. And is a constant worry and distraction. All of the controllers go through batteries 4x as fast as on Rift. And Microsoft made the mistake of logging you out no long after idling on WMR instead of just giving a protective anti-burn in screen blacking like Rift does. Meaning if you're playing a game on SteamVR, you will have to log back in and start up the game all over again. And you'll lose any progress you didn't save.

    Even without struggling to be tracked and keep a battery charge through even one small play session. WMR is just a hassle on pretty much every level. The resolution on HP Reverb will be wonderful. But I don't think it will be worth it to put up with all of the flaws and compromises of Windows Mixed Reality, awful tracking, short battery life, errors and bugs like once I've lost battery, and replaced them, I have several times had to reboot just to get my PC to recognize my WMR controllers again. And then being logged out of whatever game you're playing after only a short few minutes of idling. Something Oculus and Vive didn't get wrong.

    I would say it's not worth the tracking and hassle for me personally.

    I'm going to be skipping the HP Reverb and saving for an HTC Vive. It is focuses on what I think matters in VR, tracking quality and variety. The quality and variety of the tracking in Vive is the best available, so I'm more than happy to sacrifice resolution for that.

    I may consider trying to pair my Odyssey+ after that in order to enjoy Vive with the resolution of a Vive Pro, without spending the money on a Vive Pro. But I'm unlikely to bother with that until Windows Mixed Reality software fixes their subpar burn-in avoidance feature. And if they do that, already having a good, Vive tracking setup, I may considering saving to upgrade to a HP Reverb at that point.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,527 Valuable Player
    edited March 2019
    But even the best WMR right now on the market, the Odyssey+, has awful tracking in comparison to Oculus Rift. It makes playing anything feel clunky, uncomfortable, and unreliable. And is a constant worry and distraction. All of the controllers go through batteries 4x as fast as on Rift. And Microsoft made the mistake of logging you out no long after idling on WMR instead of just giving a protective anti-burn in screen blacking like Rift does. Meaning if you're playing a game on SteamVR, you will have to log back in and start up the game all over again. And you'll lose any progress you didn't save.

    Even without struggling to be tracked and keep a battery charge through even one small play session. WMR is just a hassle on pretty much every level. The resolution on HP Reverb will be wonderful. But I don't think it will be worth it to put up with all of the flaws and compromises of Windows Mixed Reality, awful tracking, short battery life, errors and bugs like once I've lost battery, and replaced them, I have several times had to reboot just to get my PC to recognize my WMR controllers again. And then being logged out of whatever game you're playing after only a short few minutes of idling. Something Oculus and Vive didn't get wrong.

    I would say it's not worth the tracking and hassle for me personally.

    The only thing I would agree with is the battery life is indeed too short and it takes twice the batteries of Touch. I change to fresh ones (rechargeable) everytime I play just to make sure I'm not interrupted. They last longer than that but I hate being interrupted. I had problems with my O+ tracking when I first got it but right now I'm pretty impressed by it for what it is. A developer said it learns the more you use it but they've also made some adjustments to it. I have zero problems with it other than what I described. It's reliable and pretty easy to use for me but like anything with PC gaming, it can vary machine to machine.

    They also changed the Software default settings for the o+ and set the render target to 2 by default. Previously you had to go edit it manually in a config file. On render scale 1, I couldn't deblur games like Skyrim but since this fix was found, this headset looks really good and supersampling actually works. I've found though that 200% supersampling in steam seems to be the sweet spot. If I go above or blow that at render target 2, it gets worse.

    But yea it does log you out if you sit idle but on the WMR screen but I  an just click a button on the interface and it's back on for me instantly. Does that not work for you? 

    *Edit* oh it's happening to you while playing, wow that sucks. Never had that happen..hope I don't, I'd be pissed. Makes me wonder if you have a defective unit.

    I did find this thread. You can edit it in the registry but I'd be careful with it because OLEDS are prone to burn in and Odyssey has them.


  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,527 Valuable Player
    edited March 2019
    I meant to link this with the last post but I was in a hurry. I would record some gameplay myself to show what the tracking is like and I may if someone wants to see more. I'm still stuck on 1 meg upload for another month until I get 1 gigabit fiber.  Definite pros and cons to living in a rural area.....slow internet access being the biggest con.

    This is a guy playing BOXVR and Creed: Rise to Glory and you can see how it does for him.  Not a lot of gameplay vids of the Odyssey. Most are a year or more old.



    Someone asked him how he was liking the Odyssey

    Its awesome. No tracking issues yet. Player almost all vr games excellent piece of hardware.

    So yea, experience seems to vary. But anyways, is it objectively worse than CV1? Of course. Will it be worse than Rift-S? Of course. 3 extra cameras for coverage.  But for me it works pretty well with just two.



  • KenSniperKenSniper Posts: 194
    Art3mis
    For me I have narrowed down the key points in the two into these few categories


    - Resolution - HP Reverb- Tracking - Rift S
    - Future Finger and Hand Tracking? - Rift S
    - Price - Rift S
    - FOV - HP Reverb
    - Resolution - HP Reverb

    Other smaller issues are like game controller support between the rift and wmr, and how the touch controllers has hand presence. Overall I'm leaning more towards the rift S but I really just want that extra FOV
  • trek554trek554 Posts: 113
    Art3mis
    KenSniper said:
    For me I have narrowed down the key points in the two into these few categories


    - Resolution - HP Reverb- Tracking - Rift S
    - Future Finger and Hand Tracking? - Rift S
    - Price - Rift S
    - FOV - HP Reverb
    - Resolution - HP Reverb

    Other smaller issues are like game controller support between the rift and wmr, and how the touch controllers has hand presence. Overall I'm leaning more towards the rift S but I really just want that extra FOV
    The Rift S and Reverb have essentially the same FOV. The Reverb is 114 and according to Oculus, Rift S is supposed to be "slightly more" than the 110 on the current Rift. 

    I would never consider a WMR headset due to the 2 camera tracking alone. And the Rift controllers have spoiled me. 
    Win 10 Pro | i9 9900KF | MSI Gaming Pro Carbon AC | MSI RTX 2080 Gaming X Trio | G.SKILL 32GB DDR4 3200 CL14 | Samsung Evo 860 4TB SSD | Cooler Master CM500 | EVGA SuperNOVA P2 750 watt | Sound Blaster Zx
  • kbloodkblood Posts: 3
    NerveGear
    HP Reverb is set to release late April? That is pretty nice. I was thinking about getting the Vive Cosmos, but now I do consider getting the HP though. The Rift S... its lack of tracking is annoying. For me it makes me want to get some Vive tracking and Knuckles controllers for it... with that being the case, I might as well get a headset where the display, audio and comfort is better.

    Only downside though, is if hand-tracking becomes a thing for the Rift S, then I would miss out on that. The Vive Cosmos would have be pretty great for that as well though. I hope there will be some news about the Vive Cosmos or Valves possible headset within the next month.
  • KenSniperKenSniper Posts: 194
    Art3mis
    trek554 said:
    The Rift S and Reverb have essentially the same FOV. The Reverb is 114 and according to Oculus, Rift S is supposed to be "slightly more" than the 110 on the current Rift. 

    I would never consider a WMR headset due to the 2 camera tracking alone. And the Rift controllers have spoiled me. 
    oh wait youre right about that fov on rift, i dont know why i constantly kept thinking of a 90 fov.. i think i got it mixed up with the 90 hrtz, if that's the case then maybe i'll just get myself a rift s, i too am very spoilt with the controller, i find it so much more comfier and ergonomic compared to the wmr and vive wands
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