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Rift S Disappointment Thread so Oculus knows our feedback!

Cyion
Protege
Hello Oculus,

I just would like to express my severe disappointment at the now confirmed features of the Oculus Rift S.

Here are the deal breakers for me (ranked from biggest deal breaker to smallest):

#1 - Lack of outside-in tracking (was hoping for something of the level of tracking that the vive has without having to plug 3 usb sensors in and all the hell that comes with that because of crappy motherboards/cords etc.)

     The reason this bothers me so much is I play games like Echo Arena and you need AMAZING tracking, I am constantly pushing off walls that are completely behind my back without looking and inside out tracking is insufficient.  I also will take a swing behind my back without looking and again inside out tracking won't cut it.

#2 - Lack of a physical IPD adjustment

   My IPD has to be bang on or I end up getting headaches after playing longer then 2 hours.  If it is even 1 mm off, the headaches happen, if it is set just right, I can play for 8 hour plus with no side effects.  I cannot play test a rift S to find out if it will give me headaches for more then 2 hours.

#3 - No option to set your refresh rate to 90 Hz

    If you want the default refresh rate to be 80 Hz fine, but give me the option to allow it to be 90 Hz.  When the fps gets lower than 90 fps I notice it and it does not feel good for me.

#4 - Lack of quality headphone included with the headset

   I love the sound on my rift CV1 and I will not accept anything less and I don't want to have another wire that my hand can bump into when I am playing highly competitive games since I would have to plug in my own headphones.

The small jump in resolution doesn't outweigh all the negatives I have mentioned above and a slight increase in the FOV would have been nice!

I think Oculus has failed in that they should have been developing the Rift S and another new Rift headset that is geared towards those enthusiasts who are willing to pay a bit more for a QUALITY headset.  You have made an AFFORDABLE headset that will get a lot of new people into VR but you have neglected the wants of a LARGE CORE (enthusiasts) of your fans!

Your future headsets has to have a outside in tracking option and an physical adjustable IPD or I will never buy another oculus headset.  At this point I don't want to wait another 2 years for a new proper headset that meets these requirements and my money will likely go to another company that pulls this off in the mean time.  I wish I bought all of my games on the steam store now.  Wouldn't have imagined Oculus's next headset would be so contrary to what I want.

Sincerely,

Cyion
231 REPLIES 231

Zenbane
MVP
MVP

edmg said:


Zenbane said:
You don't see how the evolution of VR headsets in to contact lenses would serve as a replacement for VR HMD's?? Then how do you see Inside-Out tracking as a replacement for Outside-In? lol


This is just getting silly. VR contact lenses are just VR HMDs in a more convenient package.



Silly indeed. HMD stands for "head mounted display." If you are wearing contact lenses, then your head is no longer being mounted! lmao

Inside-out tracking is a fundamentally different technology, even if both use cameras.

Completely wrong. As Nate from Oculus explained, the same team that built outside-in tracking is now working on inside-out tracking. The camera placement has simply moved from external cameras to internal cameras.

It is a Fact to say the following: VR Contact Lenses are a fundamentally different technology, moreso than the difference between Inside-Out vs Outside-In tracking.


Outside-in tech was necessary in 2016, but no-one would have used it if inside-out was easy to do at that time.

That's pure guesswork on an imaginary situation, and not even worth addressing based on your current understanding of HMD's and tracking.

Little_Robot_Fa
Explorer

edmg said:


Zenbane said:
You don't see how the evolution of VR headsets in to contact lenses would serve as a replacement for VR HMD's?? Then how do you see Inside-Out tracking as a replacement for Outside-In? lol


This is just getting silly. VR contact lenses are just VR HMDs in a more convenient package. Inside-out tracking is a fundamentally different technology, even if both use cameras.

Outside-in tech was necessary in 2016, but no-one would have used it if inside-out was easy to do at that time. The cool kids might still use VR HMDs in twenty years when VR contact lenses are readily available, just as they play vinyl records today. But only a handful of people with very specialized requirements are going to be using outside-in tracking.


There is a tried and true, common saying that "if something is not broke, do not fix it."

I'm not a hipster, but I prefer to play my 16-Bit and 32-Bit games, 240p and 480i games, on as high quality of a CRT as possible. That is because that is what I believe they genuinely play best on. And I'm far from alone, many many people have noticed the downgrade it is to play these games on modern flat panels. These games were meant to be played this way. 240p games were meant to have scanlines and look best on as high of quality phosphors as possible, something even high accuracy CRT emulators like CRT royale, on 4K OLED HDR still fails to fully and completely recreate. These games were designed for these screens and look far more detailed and better. Developers used the tricks that these screens, with scanlines, interlacing, phosphors, and ect. had, to create detail where there was none. Chrono Trigger looks like a pixelated mess without the display.

And there's a reason that Super Metroid speedrunners and Smash Bros. Melee Pros don't "get with the times and play on a modern display instead of obsolete technology". It's because modern displays are a downgrade and simply worse. They all introduce an unplayable degree of input lag. Whereas not only does playing these games with an analogue RGB or component cable connection look much better than on a LCD or even OLED display, being analogue, there is no perceptible input lag, inputs are near instantaneous, which is not true of modern flat panels with digital connections. No CRT means no Super Metroid world record.


As for inside out tracking, the technology doesn't seem to be there yet. I've seen impressions of the Rift S yes, and while it has several more cameras on the HMD than WMR headsets, which have very bad tracking that isn't even a 10th as good as on Rift. From what I've heard from people who demo'd it at GDC, the tracking, while leagues better than what one has to suffer through with WMR, it still isn't as good or reliable as the original Rift with outside-in tracking. Which means that one of the things they traded off, was the high quality tracking. They took something that wasn't broke, the decent outside-in tracking of the CV1 Rift, and fixed it, offering us a compromised, inside-out tracking experience based on a technology that isn't quite ready yet.

I don't think that we should hurriedly move to a technology that isn't ready yet. And it sounds like inside-out tracking technology isn't quite ready yet and can't offer as good of an experience as CV1 Rift or Vive. I think it's premature to cast off any technology while it still provides a better experience or advantages over what will replace it.

We're finally reaching days where ultra-low latency OLED displays are offering latency and even computers able to recreate the full quality of the look that CRTs provided, but even that has taken a very long time and isn't fully there yet. And there's nothing wrong with sticking with a CRT, especially as converting these signals introduces input lag. In many cases, it is still the only choice, considering what game you are playing and how you are playing it.

If outside-in provides the better tracking experience, and everything I've read and seen seems to point to that, then Oculus should still provide a solution for people who want that experience, instead of having Vive as their only option for quality tracking.
Old VR PC: HP Pavillion Power,  Intel Core i5-7400, NVIDIA GTX 1060 3GB Graphics, 8 GB RAM
New VR PC: HP Omen 880-130,    Intel Core i7-8700K, GTX 1080TI, 16GB RAM, 512 GB SSD

What I use VR for:
VRChat! Also, Airtone, Beat Saber, OrbusVR, SkyrimVR and DolphinVR

Features I most want:
1. Full Body Tracking 2. Full finger tracking 3. Haptics 4. Wireless Tracking 5. Wider FOV 6. Improved Resolution/Less Screendoor

Deanmrd
Honored Guest

It concerns me the most is the IPD, My IPD is 70 so I am only just able play on the rift,

Don't think I am willing to buy anymore games off oculus store as they can't be trusted to develop with all people in mind.

If anything happens to my head set I would have to switch and find a new vr driver losing all games I have purchased on the oculus store. 

Shame on you oculus. 

Anonymous
Not applicable
Yeah at this time I will not be making any more purchases from the Oculus Store. 
Not until I figure out for sure which headset I will be going with, which at this time is looking most likely the Reverb.

Course if I do pick up a Quest then that will change again.


Anonymous
Not applicable

Deanmrd said:


It concerns me the most is the IPD, My IPD is 70 so I am only just able play on the rift,

Don't think I am willing to buy anymore games off oculus store as they can't be trusted to develop with all people in mind.

If anything happens to my head set I would have to switch and find a new vr driver losing all games I have purchased on the oculus store. 

Shame on you oculus. 



Someone on Reddit with a 72mm IPD tried the Rift S and didn't have any problems with it, so you might be okay.

Just watched today's F.Reality livestream discussing Rift-S vs Reverb.

Most of the points they were making are points that have been made several times in the numerous threads here. You're going to need a 2080ti to run the Reverb, I'd assumed that but there was some talk of needing something less, less won't be good enough for most games, so if you don't have one allow for that cost. If you're worried about inside-out tracking with the 2 cameras, you'll also have to buy a Vive so you can run the Reverb with Lightning sensors. The controllers are uncomfortable and burn through batteries fast and you'll have to rely on Revive for Oculus games.

I'm not sure of the usefulness of having this particular vs. as it seems to me that the Reverb is directly competing with the Vive Pro whilst the Rift-S is designed to attract more people to VR by making the experience overall just a bit better and a fair bit more accessible.

At the risk of repeating myself, I truly believe we're 12-18 months away from having our next enthusiast headset with no compromises and the PCs capable of running it. A think Oculus' enthusiast headset is following that timeline.

Cpt_Custard
Adventurer

Deanmrd said:


It concerns me the most is the IPD, My IPD is 70 so I am only just able play on the rift,

Don't think I am willing to buy anymore games off oculus store as they can't be trusted to develop with all people in mind.

If anything happens to my head set I would have to switch and find a new vr driver losing all games I have purchased on the oculus store. 

Shame on you oculus. 


I will never trust any corporation, all decisions they make are self motivated and the only thing that effects their choices is profit.

This is why I make all purchases with the same self interest on a platform that is common to all where possible.

RedRizla
Honored Visionary
@DaftnDirect - Yes, I think there's a lot of people just saying they will get a HP Reverb, but like me had forgotten that a higher a resolution also means needing a better Graphics Card. Yes a Geforce 1080 will work on a HP Reverb, but I'm sure it isn't going to be a great experience. I think a Geforce 1080 will run great on a Rift -S and given that is the card most gamers have right now, then I'm sure the Rift -S will sell very well. I hope it does to keep the VR dream alive for years to come. I'd hate to think these companies don't sell enough headsets and just decide to shelve PC-VR altogether for that reason.


jayhawk
Superstar

Deanmrd said:


It concerns me the most is the IPD, My IPD is 70 so I am only just able play on the rift,


That's evidence of alien DNA. You can't blame Oculus.

HiThere_
Superstar

edmg said:

Outside-in tracking was a quick hack to get cheap 6DOF VR working, not a long-term technology.


Quite the opposite : Outside-in attempts to track the whole body, all the time, all the place, potentially allowing to track the elbows, knees, feet and more to provide full body tracking (which is why the HTC Vive already provides leg tracking), while inside-out tracking is a quick hack to get cheap 6DOF VR working by just keeping track of the headset and two hands, not all the time, and never in some places.

Which doesn't mean inside-out tracking won't be the most popular low-end option, since it's a quick hack that focuses on tracking the bare essential parts (headset and hands) at a reduced cost (in price and setup complexity).