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Valve Index - Specifications released.

KlodsBrik
Expert Trustee
1,893 REPLIES 1,893



So long as windows MR are sticking g with 2 camera inside out then I am not going near one of those.
Also whilst oculus is my preferred vr store front steam is head and shoulders above the windows vr infrastructure and I wod want the majority of titles I play to be natively supported and not reliant almost solely on wrappers.like most windows MR users are.
I really want to stick with oculus bit depending on what this new valve hmd is I will probably jump ship .... Hopefully if openXR takes off I can get back to buying from oculus store sooner rather than .later however


I'm pretty much in agreement with this and like @dburne said, it'll just be great to have choices.

Just need a LOT more facts and some incling of when an Oculus enthusiast headset is likely. But if the facts are positive (including price) I see no reason for anyone to complain, new:comers to PC VR know they already have a great option and maybe enthusiasts will have a choice to upgrade sooner than they thought.

That wrapper business would be bit of a nagging annoyance though for sure.

Edit: I'm also forgetting the cost of a GPU upgrade which I'll need for something more demanding  than a Rift-S, Having to buy that sooner rather than later wiould nag a bit too.

Edit 2: I'm also forgetting about Touch controllers. Lots to consider.

Anonymous
Not applicable

Mradr said:


RuneSR2 said:

Seems like most believe in 135 fov - but 150 would be amazing. Then I'd be forced to start modding Skyrim!  😄


150 would be too much and just another Pimax honestly unless they have eye tracking. 135 is kind of the cap or edge of what current GPUs will be able to handle in terms of 10s, 20s, and 30s cards. Anything higher than you really do run the risk no one ever buying it other than the top 1%.


I might have to take this back as it might be a possible thing they want to do o.o; I have a hard time understanding the reasoning though if they do - higher FOV is a REALLY big hug of resources as the eye wont be able to really capture all that information in a meaningful way all the time (yes, I understand you can move your eyes - but as soon as you do - you create another spot that doesn't need to be render in full detail again). 

Upload VR’s David Heaney claims that his sources say that the headset will have the same resolution of Vive Pro (2880×1600) and 135° FOV. Valve News Network says that the resolution will be bigger than Vive Pro and that FOV will be 150°. Anyway, redditor D3Pixel spotted that the Analogix 7530 chip that is on the PCB can only support at maximum the resolution of the Vive Pro, so I believe more to Upload VR’s hypothesis.
UPDATE: the last sentence has been proved wrong: redditor Otto_Sump commented it this way:
Making this lower PPD than the Vive pro/Odyssey or Pimax 5K+ makes little sense as it would be in direct competition with them (some people like FOV, some resolution).
Besides, the ANX7530 is the same chip as used in the Pimax 5K+ and I believe that D3pixel has already been corrected on this in the Pimax forums.
I’d hope that this was higher resolution, I’d buy one if it was.
If this is true, this means that since the same screen will be used to have a bigger field of view, the overall PPD will be lower and so the “perceived resolution” will be worse than the Vive Pro. Probably Valve knows that a big FOV is one of the features that VR users ask the most because it creates a more immersive VR and so they are sacrificing PPD.


Anonymous
Not applicable

Edit: I'm also forgetting the cost of a GPU upgrade which I'll need for something more demanding  than a Rift-S, Having to buy that sooner rather than later wiould nag a bit too.


This is why the entry cost isn't the HMD - its the computer. If you go for PCVR you are in a penny for a pound setup either way. Granted, for easy of use Rift S might be the better options in terms of setup for people that just want to get in and out of VR where they are at. As for the massive - Rift S really isn't the answer - it'll be Quest at the end of the day. By generation 2-3 if you don't have vision tracking as a option - you might be peddling up a river without a paddle though.

I honestly think right now - even with all the basic users issues - the main reasons people have jump into VR with computers already powerful enough for VR isn't the price - its that they are waiting for the next generation or a better first generation HMD. Granted - I am not talking about spending 1000$+ here - but something in the 500-800 range I am sure will bring in people if it provided the same quality of their flat screen gaming.

KlodsBrik
Expert Trustee

5 million Steam users have a GPU capable of 2160x2160 per eye?? (Valve Index related post)

With
the Valve Index Tease confirming that the Leaked photo's from a few
months ago were real, its a reasonable assumption to make from those
photo's that the FOV will be wider than the Rift and Vive CV1's due to
the sizes of the lenses. Increase the FOV and its reasonable to assume a
decent jump in resolution compared to the CV1's otherwise you have the
same or even lower PPD than the CV1's.

Its
apparent to most of us that the Valve Index is likely to be all the
things we wanted in a Rift S but didn't get. Its reasonable to assume
that this will come at a higher cost than Rift S and thus the Valve
Index will be aimed at VR enthusiasts.

Its
been my opinion for several years now (I'll try and dig up some 2 year
old posts of mine) that while price of HMD's and ease of setup are
important considerations for the PC gaming masses still on the VR fence,
I feel that perhaps the biggest thing holding the 'PC Master Race' back
from buying a HMD is the resolution and FOV. Those folks simply will
not be convinced by us raving about how amazing VR gaming can be and how
you forget about the FOV or resolution or SDE once you start playing.
They simply will not spend ANY
money on a device that they see as akin to in effect taking a 2 decade
step back in time to their old 640x480 VGA monitors from their 144hz
1440p or 4K monitors in terms of image clarity. When I've talked about
this in the past I've talked about how I believe that once you have a
HMD with high enough res that they can play their monitor games on high
refresh rate high res virtual monitors, enjoy high clarity VR porn and
VR Cinema too, that a VR HMD becomes a no brainer purchase even if they
never intended to play an actual VR game. Now the Valve Index is still
not going to be high res nor cheap enough to make it a no brainer
purchase for the PC Gaming masses but it will be very interesting to see
if it does a better job at convincing those with VR capable GPU's to
part with their cash compared to how cheap but low res Rift and Vive
fared in that regard. Even Palmer Luckey changed his tune away from
believing that Price was the most important consideration for buyers.His
famous "Free isn't cheap enough" Blog post.

So
while the vast majority of the PC gaming community will still have to
wait till we have Eyetracking with Foveated Rendering capable HMD's
(2022 according to Oculus' Michael Abrash) where even bottom tier GPU
owners will be able to run 6000x6000 pixel per eye HMD's, if my numbers
are correct, upto 5 million people already own a GPU that could run
(some GPU's would need to undersample granted) a 2160x2160 per eye Valve
Index. HP Reverb with those panels has GTX 1080 as the recommended
spec. I took that as a baseline and toted up the number of Steam users
with GTX 1080's, GTX 1080TI's, RTX2070's, RTX2080's & RTX2080TI's.
It came to 5.6% of the Steam userbase. Those are monthly percentages so I
used Steams average Monthly active users which is 90 million which
means about 5 million Steam users own one of those cards. Correct me if
I'm wrong anyone.

So its looking like
we are going to get a real world test of those theories. Is it Price or
Specs keeping the VR capable GPU owning PC Gamers on the fence. Will the
Rift S entice those 5 million higher end GPU owners to finally jump
into VR or will it be the higher spec but more expensive Valve Index?

As
for me, as some of you may have noticed, ever since the Rift S
announcement I have ceased to be an Oculus/Facebook Cheerleader/Fanboy
and am really worried about the direction Oculus seem to be going. I am
no longer sure that OpenXR will mean a 100% open Store like I once
thought. While I absolutely see a place for the likes of the Rift S I
thought it should be cheaper and I think Oculus need to keep their foot
in the Enthusiast door as well but Rubins recent RtoVR interview seemed
to poopoo on the Rift Pro rumours. So ever since the Rift S announcement
I've been saying in several threads that I am now looking outside of
Oculus for my next HMD. Now even considering the Pimax or Vive Cosmos,
though most likely the HP Reverb....unless Valve Rumours turned out to
have some meat on the bones......

Today
I got my answer. I would have settled for the HP Reverb for my Space,
Flight & Driving Sim and VR Cinema usage where the controller
tracking or shitty controllers don't matter and continued to use my CV1
for other VR games. However, a 2160x2160 pixel per eye 130-140º FOV
Valve Index with Lighthouse and knuckles for even $800 would be an
absolute DAY 1 purchase for me.

Exciting Times !!!




Be good, die great !


Mradr said:


Edit: I'm also forgetting the cost of a GPU upgrade which I'll need for something more demanding  than a Rift-S, Having to buy that sooner rather than later wiould nag a bit too.


This is why the entry cost isn't the HMD - its the computer. If you go for PCVR you are in a penny for a pound setup either way. Quest is honestly the answer to anyone that wants to get into VR at a entry level price. Rift S isn't the answer for the mass market - its Quest.

*shuts mouth* Sorry rants ><; I will need to try and pressure my self not to comment of these type of statements xD


I should qualify... I think Rift-S is the great option for people wanting to get into PC VR if their budget allows for a new PC with the same specs as we considered to be top-end 3 years ago (I don't think that's top-end now). Or if they already have that PC but are swayed by little things like a more plug and play solution or slightly higher res.

Also, there are very good reasons to go for PC VR over stand-alone if you qualify for the above.... mainly choice and scope of games and experiences.

Edit: I did say newcomers to PC VR rather than newcomers to VR. If someone's not at all interested in the PC side of things then absolutely Quest is the one to go for.

pyroth309
Visionary
I'm kind of in wait and see mode. I was ready to buy a Rift-S until this news because of touch and compbatibility as I was thinking the Valve HMD was going to be next year like the "CV2." I don't like using my CV1 much anymore. Now, I'm just going to let it play out and go for whatever makes the most sense. Knuckles is kind of the X factor for me. I'm still going to grab a quest for mobility though. I have an Odyssey so I'm just going to keep using it until it plays out. Now I just need Nvidia to come out with a new card so I can build a monster VR rig. :smiley:

CrashFu
Consultant

pyroth309 said:


RuneSR2 said:

The more important question - who will buy the Rift S without knowing anything about the Valve Index? Kinda feels like Valve did this on purpose. Also examine that words "Upgrade your experience". There's been a lot of discussions about Rift-S being "not an upgrade" for Rift owners. I believe Valve chose their words especially to signify that a true upgrade is coming - if they truly can deliver... 
Valve Index - didn't they choose the wrong finger? Should it not have been Valve Middle Finger? (Which perfectly would convey their message to HTC and Oculus - and the WMR Group 😉


Due to the timing of the release, (I mean Pax and GDC just happened) I feel like they weren't ready to release yet and rushed this because of the opportunity. It was like..hey before you hit that order button... take a look at this physical IPD adjustment we got right here!


It could actually be the opposite.  If you recall, the original Vive was fully complete by December of the year before CV1 came out, just sitting in warehouses  (except for the units they sent out to internet celebrities and tech journalists so they could do paid endorsements and hype-building)  and they just left them there, waiting for Oculus to make the first move so that they could steal their thunder.   And they got away with screwing over their customers like that because they're Valve.

But either way, you're definitely right about this being an underhanded tactic to distract from Oculus' hype and make people go "Well I'd better hold off on buying Rift-S / Quest until AFTER I find out what Valve's thing can do".  Rift-S was designed to expand the market and improve the baseline VR experience;  Index was designed for the explicit purpose of stealing Rift-S sales.

****ing parasites.
It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.

Anonymous
Not applicable



Mradr said:


Edit: I'm also forgetting the cost of a GPU upgrade which I'll need for something more demanding  than a Rift-S, Having to buy that sooner rather than later wiould nag a bit too.


This is why the entry cost isn't the HMD - its the computer. If you go for PCVR you are in a penny for a pound setup either way. Quest is honestly the answer to anyone that wants to get into VR at a entry level price. Rift S isn't the answer for the mass market - its Quest.

*shuts mouth* Sorry rants ><; I will need to try and pressure my self not to comment of these type of statements xD


I should qualify... I think Rift-S is the great option for people wanting to get into PC VR if their budge allows for a new PC with the same specs as we considered to be top-end 3 years ago (I don't think that's top-end now). Or if they already have that PC but are swayed by little things like a more plug and play solution or slightly higher res.

Also, there are very good reasons to go for PC VR over stand-alone if you qualify for the above.... mainly choice and scope of games and experiences.



Correct, but I work in service for a long while. Honestly, most customers don't think like you and I. They are only looking at 1-2 things when they are buying a product because 1) They're not the user using the product. 2) They don't know what they getting or needing. 3) They don't want your help - they just want to know the price and either buy it or get out.

a) Parents buy games for their children - because they are the ones with money, but the problem with anyone making money is that they don't have the time left over after working a 8 hour work day. So now you have a work force that only gets the idea what VR is and not all the fun or understand what really goes into making it a great VR experience.

b) Going back to the parents - they just simply never had the time to really understand what goes into a PC and what a GT CARD does for someone. They don't understand what the differences between 8GB and 500GB of storage means (even though one could be ram and the other being storage). It's not their fault for not knowing - its just we can only know what we know so long as we use it all the time and have a need to know it.

c) I think most people have this feeling - but everyone gets shy to ask questions or their main goal isn't to talk to someone that might know - they simply just want to get in and out of the store. With that said - they simply ignore what is there and only look at the price. Take the SD cards from the other post - people will see the price differences between a high speed card and the low speed card and choose the slow speed because its cheaper. The service rep will have no knowledge of why this customer is buying this card so no questions may be ask or simply they don't care so long as the price is what it needs to be to the reason why it is slow.

True again, but what happen 3 years ago is not what is happening today. People are moving forward with their hardware that can afford to do so. Those are the same people that chose to get new hardware over CV1 instead. What is going to get them to buy now instead of before? I don't mean this in a smart alike ton - I am just wondering at this point what would be the kick over for them. A lot of reasons I heard people not going over yet is because they were waiting for the next generation headset and to fix some of the current generation one issues. 

The other side of the story I hear is they can't afford a CV1 - but then you break it down into why - and usually its the same issue - they don't have a PC powerful enough to run CV1 in the first place. This is where I feel Quest will come in for those type of people and make a killing off that. I already have family and friends looking at Quest for that very reason.

vannagirl
Consultant

KlodsBrik said:

Finally knuckles and HL3 as well ? .. No seriously ??





wow if so my bundled with star citizen prediction was way off

It looks really nice, love how many options are coming out, i recently got a msi1080ti cheap on Ebay so i am defo looking to powering something even nicer.
Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 

Shadowmask72
Honored Visionary
Wallet is primed for action as always. Exciting times ahead.  If the specs are decent, I wonder where this will leave the HP Reverb?


System Specs: MSI NVIDIA RTX 4090 , i5 13700K CPU, 32GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 11 64 Bit OS.