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Valve Index - Specifications released.

KlodsBrik
Expert Trustee
1,893 REPLIES 1,893

Zenbane
MVP
MVP

inovator said:
When you say many people are upset due to the debacle  (I guess you
mean the disagreement on how much  the s will be  improved) and will
move on to steam vr. You may find the many moving to steamvr for the
reasons you state may be the minority. That we won't know for a period
of time after the release. Maybe I'm wrong and your right but I think
I'm strongly in the running.



You may be "strongly in the running" in your own mind, but SteamVR has always been more alluring for anyone who has been afraid in to being locked to a single ecosystem. Remember that if you buy a title on Oculus Home, you don't automatically get a Steam Key for the same game. Some developers give these out, but those are rare exceptions. What Rift-S has done is remind people that if you stick with an Exclusive Platform, there is always a chance that the Company will make a Hardware move that no longer suits your needs. So if you move to a competitor, your Software is stuck in that Exclusive Software.

Everyone moving away from the Oculus Rift and towards something like HP Reverb or Valve Index will face this challenge.

Also, you cannot be "strongly in the running" because Steam's VR numbers already show the Oculus Rift in the lead. So your arguments are based on pure personal inventory theory, not actual facts.

inovator
Consultant

Zenbane said:


inovator said:
When you say many people are upset due to the debacle  (I guess you
mean the disagreement on how much  the s will be  improved) and will
move on to steam vr. You may find the many moving to steamvr for the
reasons you state may be the minority. That we won't know for a period
of time after the release. Maybe I'm wrong and your right but I think
I'm strongly in the running.



You may be "strongly in the running" in your own mind, but SteamVR has always been more alluring for anyone who has been afraid in to being locked to a single ecosystem. Remember that if you buy a title on Oculus Home, you don't automatically get a Steam Key for the same game. Some developers give these out, but those are rare exceptions. What Rift-S has done is remind people that if you stick with an Exclusive Platform, there is always a chance that the Company will make a Hardware move that no longer suits your needs. So if you move to a competitor, your Software is stuck in that Exclusive Software.

Everyone moving away from the Oculus Rift and towards something like HP Reverb or Valve Index will face this challenge.

Also, you cannot be "strongly in the running" because Steam's VR numbers already show the Oculus Rift in the lead. So your arguments are based on pure personal inventory theory, not actual facts.



You bring up some very good points some of which I already agreed. My main point being tracking with sensors eventually will not exist or be a very tiny part of what does exist. As far as oculus list being in the lead in steam vr, I understand that but in my case I also buy games on steam vr but I buy in the oculus store more. That may happen with many other users as well.

bigmike20vt
Visionary

Zenbane said:


What Rift-S has done is remind people that if you stick with an Exclusive Platform, there is always a chance that the Company will make a Hardware move that no longer suits your needs. So if you move to a competitor, your Software is stuck in that Exclusive Software.

Everyone moving away from the Oculus Rift and towards something like HP Reverb or Valve Index will face this challenge.


I just hope OpenXR makes this all moot in the years ahead.  It would be nice to put the whole betamax vs VHS / blueray vs HDDVD bollocks behind us, esp as it is a software issue not a hardware issue (so if the will is there can be fixed)

unlike the video or media disk example however there needent be a winner and a loser i think both hardware platforms can exist together and this in term would benefit everyone, and remove some of the uncertainty that people have. (no one wants to be the owner of the betamax device and this could easily be making some people not buy anything imo).

(i still have a HDDVD system however )
Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR 🙂

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

RuneSR2 said:

There's nothing better than Index hype  ❤️  😄

xhsbaariwxlb.jpg



Today I'll do my very best not to add more to the hype - except for maybe just a tiny addition  o:)

"Very good friend of mine works for a big studio.

He confirmed me that he tried the new valve headset weeks ago. It was only for some minutes.

He has a strong NDA with his studio and doesn't want to get fired, so he just gave me some small teaser.

-> No SDE! He couldn't see the pixels, but tried it only once and onyl for some minutes. He said it was way better then the vive pro."

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/bb5zhw/sde_leak/


Ok, one more then :blush:

"Now, The problem with the idea of valve releasing an HMD with higher res screen than the vive pro, was that display port 1.2 wouldn’t allow for a higher res. Well... here why it is actually possible the index have duel 2k screens, and why it’s only possible with eye tracking. Understand this means almost all of valves patents must have come together to make this possible. (thanks /u/nw15062 for this info)

One of the biggest overlooked details in valves patent is how Foveated render masking allows for reducing the data sent to the hmd while supporting high resolution displays. details in the patents mention reduction in bandwidth required through a post rendering technique that sends checkered quad pixels, then fills in the gap data and performs smoothing on the headset side. This can be done outside of the game engine through steam vr, it would allow 2k displays without the need for more than DP1.2.

Patent: RADIAL DENSITY MASKING SYSTEMS AND METHODS Publication number: 20170221184

Display with stacked emission and control logic layers Patent number: 9829710

Valves HMD with eye tracking allows for Foviated render masking and radial density masking centered at a point of the users gaze. No game engine changes are required, a steam VR API simply masks pixels reducing the number pixels rendered which are then sent down the video path. Then the gaps are filled in using neighboring pixels with a Gaussian blur through the headset.

The performance gain is the result of the reduced number of overall pixels rendered in each frame while reducing the amount of data sent over the video path to the headset whether through wired or wireless transmission, this is how DP1.2 can output to higher displays. this technology simply maintains a lower bandwidth for the same perceived resolution and clarity."

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/bb2bmx/display_port_12_makes_sense_only_if_the_valve/

So no SDE (=massive res), displayport 1.2 (=no support for massive res), possible eye tracking... I wouldn't object to the logic that massive res (=no SDE) would require eye tracking IF displayport 1.2 is true... 

Published 2017:

"Now, SMI and Valve are working to integrate eye tracking directly into OpenVR. The goal is to provide VR applications with a convenient way to add one or more eye tracking benefits, such as gaze-augmented interaction, foveated rendering - which delivers a high-end VR experience with lower computational demands - and realistic eye contact between avatars thanks to SMI's Social Eye."

https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/gdc-2017-valve-demos-smi-eye-tracking-on-its-proven-vr-pla...

Image result for i want to believe

https://imgur.com/a/Ee13Xth

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
The cheapskate semi-Index solution for Touch haters  😉

https://youtu.be/5QKy3nxqLI8

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

inovator
Consultant
I may be very jelous if index is that good but alas the sensors required totally kill it for me. If it had inside out tracking and was unbelievable I can see me paying up to a grand. 

Luciferous
Consultant
If I am paying a grand I would like both. Having said that I never really had any issues with inside out tracking as I don't tend to move my set up from my games room. I would miss the highly accurate sensor tracking though, one of the features of CV1 that always amazed me.

Edit: I am pretty pumped about the Index reveal in May. Now reviewing all that has happened over the last few weeks, I am sure the Rift S was a rushed last minute product (hence the Lenovo dimension) as they were really concerned about the Index and had nothing to compete. One assumes it could mean it is something special and they consider, for the first time they have a serious competitor.

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
Hmmm, there's almost no new Index hype today  😞 - I guess we need something nice to look at while we wait, and some music!

e9mitbwb7mbs.jpg

https://youtu.be/VBlFHuCzPgY

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Luciferous
Consultant

RuneSR2 said:

The cheapskate semi-Index solution for Touch haters  😉



So does this mean HP Reverb could use the knuckles 🙂

KlodsBrik
Expert Trustee



Be good, die great !