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Rift owners upgrade to Rift_S or HP Reverb

1911131415

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  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,023 Valuable Player
    @DaftnDirect hmm, not sure how much time you have spent with WMR headsets but in reality (pun intended) the tracking isn't so bad is it? Sure it's not as accurate as other solutions but then again there are a number of games (non sims) that don't require thrashing about like a smeghead on crack. You're also forgetting other applications aside from games like movie viewing which should be great if the headset is as comfy as it looks. Then the obvious adult content as well. I think the  reverb might do very well once there are more hands-on impressions singing the praises of that oh-so-sweet 2160p resolution (well on paper at least). 


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  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    so-sweet 2160p resolution (well on paper at least). 
    Movies...you can get good resolution real 1080P in movie playback area (screen in VR theater) is definitely a good boost.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,474 Volunteer Moderator
    edited April 2019
    I was forgetting about movie viewing and yes, the Reverb will be very good for that. I'd just say though that in that instance, I'd probably prefer something like Quest (or Go for that matter) where I can relax on the sofa, untethered.

    I just keep thinking, right tool for the job, and Reverb it seems to me has been designed with enterprise in mind and gamers may be overestimating what they can get from it.
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  • lensmandavelensmandave Posts: 305
    Trinity
    Dilip said:
    I'm just popping back into this thread so sorry if I'm about to repeat something already said....

    The benefit of the Reverb is a major increase in resolution, but hand tracking is restricted to a limited range in front of the headset. So this headset is going to be fantastic for sims and racing.

    But sims and racing are the very games that are the most demanding on CPU and GPU so are likely to have an fps that's extremely susceptible to resolution increase.

    I think there's a big reason why this headset is targeted at enterprise use. The programs used in that sector aren't graphically intense at all but do benefit a lot from clarity in text and tools.
    Is exactly my thought.. But it will fare good for Racing and Flight Sims ..certainly flight Sims much better because the sky will not have much props .. ground below also need not to be made too much high detailed and certainly as Sim pilot you need your in cockpit console and instruments and gauges to be most detailed as possible.So Riverb is most ideal candidate for Flight Sims .. hands down.
    In Civilian Flight Sims maybe, but combat Flight Sims require very detailed ground clarity. The sky gets crowded too :)
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  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 477
    Trinity
    As to Rift-S, I was expecting the Inside Out cameras.  The user community has been expecting inside out with the leaks of Oculus' work on SLAM, markerless camera tracking (eye, hands, body), and Quest/Santa Cruz using inside out, these were hints Oculus was going Inside Out as their next tracking system.

    What was surprising was the Halo style of the headset.  But that's just 1 component.  If may not look like the Rift we're used to, but that doesn't mean it won't be up to Rift standards.  I'm willing to give the halo design a shot; especially since  the Rift-S design being closer to the SONY PSVR style (not WMR style), and it is the only halo style to include a top strap.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,474 Volunteer Moderator
    Dilip said:
    I'm just popping back into this thread so sorry if I'm about to repeat something already said....

    The benefit of the Reverb is a major increase in resolution, but hand tracking is restricted to a limited range in front of the headset. So this headset is going to be fantastic for sims and racing.

    But sims and racing are the very games that are the most demanding on CPU and GPU so are likely to have an fps that's extremely susceptible to resolution increase.

    I think there's a big reason why this headset is targeted at enterprise use. The programs used in that sector aren't graphically intense at all but do benefit a lot from clarity in text and tools.
    Is exactly my thought.. But it will fare good for Racing and Flight Sims ..certainly flight Sims much better because the sky will not have much props .. ground below also need not to be made too much high detailed and certainly as Sim pilot you need your in cockpit console and instruments and gauges to be most detailed as possible.So Riverb is most ideal candidate for Flight Sims .. hands down.
    In Civilian Flight Sims maybe, but combat Flight Sims require very detailed ground clarity. The sky gets crowded too :)
    One of the first things I tried in VR was MS Flight Sim and I bought P3Dv4 in the hope that I can get something out of it in VR but absolutely no chance, ASW helps but for simming, you really do need good fps and I just can't get above 30 or there abouts, even with lots of detail turned way down.

    I haven't used those flight sims much at all in VR other than to test and it's really disappointing. I'll buy FlyInside's new flight sim at some point soon I think and hopefully I'll get back into flying.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.657)
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 2019
    I haven't used those flight sims much at all in VR other than to test and it's really disappointing. I'll buy FlyInside's new flight sim at some point soon I think and hopefully I'll get back into flying.
    Those who build Flight Sim must from ground buit it for VR, Developer can than finetune every aspect of game from VR point of view. Such title bound to perform better compared to MS Flight Sim forced in VR mode. Do you own PS4 Pro.. Have you tried AC 7 Skies Unknown ..


     See nice review here. https://www.vrfocus.com/2019/01/review-ace-combat-7-skies-unknown-vr-missions/
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,474 Volunteer Moderator
    edited April 2019

    No @Dilip , no PS for me, PC has always been enough for my gaming needs. My brother's the opposite, he's always favoured PS. I have DCS World (and DSC Warthog and  Black Shark prior to that).

    I think there may be significant differences between console and PC combat sims in that PC sims tend try and replicate many more aircraft systems as accurately as possible and perhaps that's the cause of my fondness for them and at the same time my frustration at them not performing well in VR.

    DCS World is a major improvement performance-wise put still pushes my system to its limits with CV1 (if I want most of the eye candy turned up), I'm pretty sure that would be well beyond what my GPU/CPU could cope with if using a Reverb. Really looking forward to FlyInside though, I miss civilian flight.

    Used to spend many, many hours is MS Flight Sim but VR has completely ruined that. Monitor flight simming  is just so disappointing now.

    Edit: That Skies Unknown looks pretty sweet though!

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  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,077 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019

    No @Dilip , no PS for me, PC has always been enough for my gaming needs. My brother's the opposite, he's always favoured PS. I have DCS World (and DSC Warthog and  Black Shark prior to that).

    I think there may be significant differences between console and PC combat sims in that PC sims tend try and replicate many more aircraft systems as accurately as possible and perhaps that's the cause of my fondness for them and at the same time my frustration at them not performing well in VR.

    DCS World is a major improvement performance-wise put still pushes my system to its limits with CV1 (if I want most of the eye candy turned up), I'm pretty sure that would be well beyond what my GPU/CPU could cope with if using a Reverb. Really looking forward to FlyInside though, I miss civilian flight.

    Used to spend many, many hours is MS Flight Sim but VR has completely ruined that. Monitor flight simming  is just so disappointing now.

    Edit: That Skies Unknown looks pretty sweet though!

    Regarding DCS World:
    https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3869786&postcount=2333

    Hoping we see this 50% performance improvement very soon.
    It would certainly help in running it in the upcoming new headsets.
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6

    DCS World is a major improvement performance-wise put still pushes my system to its limits with CV1 (if I want most of the eye candy turned up), I'm pretty sure that would be well beyond what my GPU/CPU could cope with if using a Reverb. 

    Your system details show you use Titan X Maxwell right?

    Even TitanX maxwell can not do VR at full details on CV1 that doesn't seem good.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,474 Volunteer Moderator
    edited April 2019
    dburne said:
    Regarding DCS World:
    https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3869786&postcount=2333

    Hoping we see this 50% performance improvement very soon.
    It would certainly help in running it in the upcoming new headsets.

    I hadn't read that and it sounds like pretty good news.

    I mentioned in RedRizla's thread though that 2160 x 2160 per eye is a 360% increase in pixels so a 50% improvement in performance will help a lot but I think this needs to be born in mind.

    There are lots of options for improving performance including rendering at a lower resolution than the headset's native resolution, upscaling etc but I think we need to manage our expectations.

    I feel like I'm being the miserable git at the party sometimes when I say these things but I've also seen so many posts expressing disappointment when things don't turn out the way people want on both the hardware and software front.

    Anyway, I may be being over pessimistic so feel free to think of me as Mr Doom & Gloom.

    Edit: I think all I'm saying is wait and see how the sims you enjoy perform with the Reverb and at what settings before deciding to buy it, I wouldn't be the first to jump in.

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  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,077 Valuable Player
    dburne said:
    Regarding DCS World:
    https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3869786&postcount=2333

    Hoping we see this 50% performance improvement very soon.
    It would certainly help in running it in the upcoming new headsets.

    I hadn't read that and it sounds like pretty good news.

    I mentioned in RedRizla's thread though that 2160 x 2160 per eye is a 360% increase in pixels so a 50% improvement in performance will help a lot but I think this needs to be born in mind.

    There are lots of options for improving performance including rendering at a lower resolution than the headset's native resolution, upscaling etc but I think we need to manage our expectations.

    I feel like I'm being the miserable git at the party sometimes when I say these things but I've also seen so many posts expressing disappointment when things don't turn out the way people want on both the hardware and software front.

    Anyway, I may be being over pessimistic so feel free to think of me as Mr Doom & Gloom.

    Edit: I think all I'm saying is wait and see how the sims you enjoy perform with the Reverb and at what settings before deciding to buy it, I wouldn't be the first to jump in.

    Yeah fully agree.
    At this time I am leaning more to the Valve Index. Will see when full product details are released.
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,474 Volunteer Moderator
    Dilip said:

    DCS World is a major improvement performance-wise put still pushes my system to its limits with CV1 (if I want most of the eye candy turned up), I'm pretty sure that would be well beyond what my GPU/CPU could cope with if using a Reverb. 

    Your system details show you use Titan X Maxwell right?

    Even TitanX maxwell can not do VR at full details on CV1 that doesn't seem good.
    Yeah, it's a 3 year old Titan and has served me well... possibly the best value card I've ever bought considering how long I've had it. According to comparison charts it's equivalent to a 1070 now so I think I'm pretty much in the middle of what people are using for CV1.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,942 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:

    I think the most amount of official commentary on CV2 came from the Nate interview in TESTED during GDC, and that was not a lot. It is clear that path has not been set in stone (from what had been previously trailed with Half-Dome), and the reaction to Rift-S will now shape that future direction.

    But in reality, I have to ask how many Rift owners would have ever imagine to see this as the replacement platform for their CV1 and Constellation setup? 






    I was expecting something like this until Rift 2 arrives because I was one of those people crying out for better lenses, less god rays and a more comfortable headset. I'm not really sure what route you expect Oculus to take given a highend headset will probably require you to have a Geforce 2080Ti to get the most out of it.

    Do Oculus first try and get lots of people into VR by creating a cheaper Rift -S, or do they continue to to cater for a niche market and make a highend headset that not many devs will cater for due to the lack of VR headsets sales?

    I think highend Rift 2 is on hold for a reason and Rift -S will be available soon for a good reason. First of all it's to get as many people into VR as possible with a cheaper headset that doesn't require you to have a Graphics Card that cost £1000 plus. It's only when hardware becomes cheap enough that it does make sense to build a highend headset. All that might change though once eye tracking is available at the right price.
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 2019
    RedRizla said:
    kevinw729 said:

    I think highend Rift 2 is on hold for a reason and Rift -S will be available soon for a good reason. First of all it's to get as many people into VR as possible with a cheaper headset that doesn't require you to have a Graphics Card that cost £1000 plus. It's only when hardware becomes cheap enough that it does make sense to build a highend headset. All that might change though once eye tracking is available at the right price.
    $399 is by no mean a cheap pricing... If that were the case they should have released Rift S at $ 300 they didn't its even expensive to CV1 with constellation at last known price $350. Agreed they improved little on resolution but did cut corner by down grade to LCD from original OLED, that too single only so no scope of physical IPD change.. So there are many mix bag decisions gone in to it... some reviewer did gone to length of calling Rift S means Rift Sh#!, will not hold breath for eye tracking as its not that useful unless foveted rendering implemented by each and every title, since all known hmd will not have it it will be niche demographic even then. fixed foveted rendering is already deployed in Oculus Go with varied level of success. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,886 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    I remember 2 years ago (2017) when people would come to this forum to brag about TPCast and the Vive. All the rage back then was how Vive is going cable-free and poor 'ol Rift CV1 owners are still having to run cables for VR.

    Here we are in 2019 and TPCast turned out to be crap (literally burning peoples scalps).


    Meanwhile, in Oculus Land we are getting pure Wireless Stand Alone with Quest and Inside-Out Tracking for Rift-S; yet Oculus products are still supposed to act as the object of ridicule. It's silly!

    :D

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  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 2019
    Zenbane said:
    Meanwhile, in Oculus Land we are getting pure Wireless Stand Alone with Quest and Inside-Out Tracking for Rift-S; yet Oculus products are still supposed to act as the object of ridicule. It's silly!

    :D

    TP Cast is third party .. They have released same adepter for Rift Too,

    https://www.tpcastvr.com/store/TPCAST-Wireless-Adapter-for-Oculus-Rift-p97616958

    One can get same burns if they use it with Rift. 

    Imitation of third party adapter has no merit to consider one platform better over another.  

    Quest will be competitive product for Focus and not for VIVE, Since mobile hardware with SD SoC will have limitation of details its not fair to compare.  Focus Plus is already 6DoF wireless stand alone from that PoV. 





  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,942 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Dilip said:
    RedRizla said:
    kevinw729 said:

    I think highend Rift 2 is on hold for a reason and Rift -S will be available soon for a good reason. First of all it's to get as many people into VR as possible with a cheaper headset that doesn't require you to have a Graphics Card that cost £1000 plus. It's only when hardware becomes cheap enough that it does make sense to build a highend headset. All that might change though once eye tracking is available at the right price.
    $399 is by no mean a cheap pricing... If that were the case they should have released Rift S at $ 300 they didn't its even expensive to CV1 with constellation at last known price $350. Agreed they improved little on resolution but did cut corner by down grade to LCD from original OLED, that too single only so no scope of physical IPD change.. So there are many mix bag decisions gone in to it... some reviewer did gone to length of calling Rift S means Rift Sh#!

    I suspect $399 is a starting price that will drop in the not to distant future, but if you think $399 is a lot of money then how do you feel about paying over £1000 for a Geforce 2080Ti? I don't find $399 a lot of money when I consider what I'm getting for that price. You make the Rift -S sound like it's shite when all the hands on reviews have been fairly positive.

    Lets just see what the Valve Index costs and what tech it has built in. But if it's got eye tracking and higher resolution screens what would you say would be a fair price for Valve Index then?
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,165 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    I remember 2 years ago (2017) when people would come to this forum to brag about TPCast and the Vive. All the rage back then was how Vive is going cable-free and poor 'ol Rift CV1 owners are still having to run cables for VR.

    Here we are in 2019 and TPCast turned out to be crap (literally burning peoples scalps).


    Meanwhile, in Oculus Land we are getting pure Wireless Stand Alone with Quest and Inside-Out Tracking for Rift-S; yet Oculus products are still supposed to act as the object of ridicule. It's silly!

    :D

    That guy didnt use a TPcast, which btw isn't crap. 
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    RedRizla said:
    Dilip said:
    RedRizla said:
    kevinw729 said:

    I think highend Rift 2 is on hold for a reason and Rift -S will be available soon for a good reason. First of all it's to get as many people into VR as possible with a cheaper headset that doesn't require you to have a Graphics Card that cost £1000 plus. It's only when hardware becomes cheap enough that it does make sense to build a highend headset. All that might change though once eye tracking is available at the right price.
    $399 is by no mean a cheap pricing... If that were the case they should have released Rift S at $ 300 they didn't its even expensive to CV1 with constellation at last known price $350. Agreed they improved little on resolution but did cut corner by down grade to LCD from original OLED, that too single only so no scope of physical IPD change.. So there are many mix bag decisions gone in to it... some reviewer did gone to length of calling Rift S means Rift Sh#!

    I suspect $399 is a starting price that will drop in the not to distant future, but if you think $399 is a lot of money then how do you feel about paying over £1000 for a Geforce 2080Ti? I don't find $399 a lot of money when I consider what I'm getting for that price. You make the Rift -S sound like it's shite when all the hands on reviews have been fairly positive.

    Lets just see what the Valve Index costs and what tech it has built in. But if it's got eye tracking and higher resolution screens what would you say would be a fair price for Valve Index 

    Certainly not bashing Rift for heavy pricing $399 is not lof of money...Rift S is good and same time not cheap for what changes has been done to original CV1 which was last sold at $350.

    I don't expect Valve Index to feature eye tracking, if it does even then it does not too much of matter to me, higher resolution does matter as increased clarity is more impressive. I don't expect them to be below $500 that does not include light house emitters needed 60$ each. 

    My point was downgrading CV1 to single display and LCD after removing constellation system thus saving money at many points put in to multi cameras and making it $50 more expensive at same time making tracking less accurate and prone to loose in camera blind spots is seemingly strange choice, not meeting with theory of not releasing RIFT 2 to increase adoption..just that.

    I fully agree that asking 1000 GBP card requirement to run VR will not help to increase adoption. 
      
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,942 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    @Dilip - Can I just remind you that PSVR has sold over 4 million VR headsets, requires just one camera and has poorer resolution then CV1. The cost of PS -VR and controllers right now is around £350.

    The Rift -S trumps PS-VR, in every department, so a lot of people will argue it's worth £399.

     
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,886 Valuable Player
    Wildt said:
    That guy didnt use a TPcast, which btw isn't crap. 
    Yeah my bad, it was Vive's own Wireless Adapter. Sorry, didn't mean to rag on your toy!
    ;)
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  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 2019
    RedRizla said:
    @Dilip - When you come back to me with a price on what you think the Valve index should cost if it has eye tracking and higher resolutions screens. Can I just remind you that PSVR has sold over 4 million VR headsets, which requires just one camera and the resolution is poorer then CV1. The cost of PS -VR and controllers right now is over £350.

    The Rift -S trumps PS-VR, in every department, so a lot of people will argue it's worth £399.
    Isn't PS-VR is different product as it cater Console. Since you brought it in 

    $344 (For all necessity combo, include 02 Games)
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX8JZ4666&Description=pSVR&cm_re=pSVR-_-79-261-771-_-Product
    $300 (1 TB PS4) 
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16868110264&Description=PS4&cm_re=PS4-_-68-110-264-_-Product

    So we are looking at $650 investment that includes 02 VR games too.

    Now the Rift-S side of picture..

    RIFT -S $399 

    Mid Tier VR Capable PC $1200

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883102579&Description=VR computer&cm_re=VR_computer-_-83-102-579-_-Product

    Ultra Low end VR Capable PC $ 800

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883102558&Description=VR computer&cm_re=VR_computer-_-83-102-558-_-Product

    So RIFT is Investment of  $ 1200 Minimum and $ 1600 if you go midrange, Games not included. so add pricing. 

    So where is comparison... PSVR still seats at Half Price. 
    IT may be terrible in tracking and basically we are comparing apple with oranges here but  since PSVR was brought to talk i cleared here. 

    VALVE INDEX is NOT on My RADAR... It never was...
    Waiting for Oculus Quest... :-)

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,942 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    @Dilip - The CV1 is £350 now, but was £599 when I purchased it. You are talking about a 3 year old product that has dropped in price. Just like everything else that's new prices start high and then they drop. The Rift -S isn't a downgrade and if you have owned an Oculus GO you would know this. The Oculus Go display looks miles better then CV1 with the new lenses, so how is that a downgrade when the Rift -S will use the same screen and lenses? 

    The inside out tracking on the Rift -S has had positive hands on reviews, so how is that a downgrade? It actually makes the Rift -S less of a hassel to setup and more mobile. 

    The IPD adjuster is a downer for some people, but not the majority.

    Edit: Can you point me to a hands on review that says the the Rift -S has poor tracking?
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,942 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    @Dilip - The CV1 came with lots of free games more then the 2 free games that PS-VR offered, so not sure what you mean? I'm also getting confused when you are comparing the price of console and PC. Why should Oculus drop their price of their headset just because a PC is more expensive then a console? 


  • lensmandavelensmandave Posts: 305
    Trinity
    Another hands on brief review of the Reverb. The small sweet spot sounds a bit of a shame :(
    https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/bbj2p9/i_tried_the_hp_reverb_today_here_are_impressions/
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  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,165 Valuable Player
    Garh.. I'm IPD 70+, so the small sweetspot + lack of hardware adjustment might tip the scales back to the Index...  oh well, hope it ain't stupid expensive then.
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 2019
    RedRizla said:
    @Dilip - The CV1 came with lots of free games more then the 2 free games that PS-VR offered, so not sure what you mean? I'm also getting confused when you are comparing the price of console and PC. Why should Oculus drop their price of their headset just because a PC is more expensive then a console? 


    Console and PC price compared because your this comment...
    RedRizla said:
    @Dilip- Can I just remind you that PSVR has sold over 4 million VR headsets, requires just one camera and has poorer resolution then CV1. The cost of PS -VR and controllers right now is around £350.The Rift -S trumps PS-VR, in every department, so a lot of people will argue it's worth £399. 
    As end cost for complete VR solution is almost half to that of RIFT S + VR pc. so to express that its not costly way.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player

    Looks like 2160x2160 is the spot where SDE is no longer a problem. That looks really good even though it's a poor photo.

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