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Rift owners upgrade to Rift_S or HP Reverb

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Comments

  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    Nice perceived quality ....
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Dilip said:
    Nice perceived quality ....
    Yea those shots look like my odyssey SDE wise but with much less blur. I could totally use that without ever complaining about SDE. But it's just a photo, probably looks even better in the lens. That's probably at 1.0/100% supersampling too.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,585 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    pyroth309 said:
    Dilip said:
    Nice perceived quality ....
    Yea those shots look like my odyssey SDE wise but with much less blur. I could totally use that without ever complaining about SDE.
    I say at 30 pixels per degree I would say so considering 60 is the human eye level and most HMD are around 12 for generation 1 - that is a massive improvement.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,585 Valuable Player
    I am sure generation 2 like devices wont hit it - but generation 3 should have enough going on for it to allow that 60 degree view over 135 FOV (I think we will see a big split of headsets that will choice FOV or go right for that 60 PPD).
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    I am sure generation 2 like devices wont hit it - but generation 3 should have enough going on for it to allow that 60 degree view over 135 FOV (I think we will see a big split of headsets that will choice FOV or go right for that 60 PPD).
    Yea, exciting times are ahead. Looking at those shots is getting close to a 720p monitor or something. It's breaking the threshold of acceptable for me. Now once we get that kind of clarity at 135 or more FoV...bliss lol. 
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,585 Valuable Player
    pyroth309 said:
    Mradr said:
    I am sure generation 2 like devices wont hit it - but generation 3 should have enough going on for it to allow that 60 degree view over 135 FOV (I think we will see a big split of headsets that will choice FOV or go right for that 60 PPD).
    Yea, exciting times are ahead. Looking at those shots is getting close to a 720p monitor or something. It's breaking the threshold of acceptable for me. Now once we get that kind of clarity at 135 or more FoV...bliss lol. 
    I agree - it looks like early 720p to me base off those images and when you zoom in. Granted, there are other technology out there that could improve even on that to make it more clear such as focal point to help with clarity, but that is already near good enough to start replacing monitors soon.
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 2019
    pyroth309 said:
    Mradr said:
    I am sure generation 2 like devices wont hit it - but generation 3 should have enough going on for it to allow that 60 degree view over 135 FOV (I think we will see a big split of headsets that will choice FOV or go right for that 60 PPD).
    Yea, exciting times are ahead. Looking at those shots is getting close to a 720p monitor or something. It's breaking the threshold of acceptable for me. Now once we get that kind of clarity at 135 or more FoV...bliss lol. 
    For me even at 110 Degree this is amazing...Wish only it had tracking like RIFT / VIVE. I strongly advocate this should be resolution of Quest 2 or  Oculus Go 2 which ever comes first ( I am sure OC will not Kill GO and Go will remain as media consumption device.. thus more strong candidate to get 2K per eye resolution update, since it will be not focused on Gaming .. SD821/835 could handle video playback load at 2K per eye) 
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,585 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Dilip said:
    pyroth309 said:
    Mradr said:
    I am sure generation 2 like devices wont hit it - but generation 3 should have enough going on for it to allow that 60 degree view over 135 FOV (I think we will see a big split of headsets that will choice FOV or go right for that 60 PPD).
    Yea, exciting times are ahead. Looking at those shots is getting close to a 720p monitor or something. It's breaking the threshold of acceptable for me. Now once we get that kind of clarity at 135 or more FoV...bliss lol. 
    For me even at 110 Degree this is amazing...Wish only it had tracking like RIFT / VIVE. I strongly advocate this should be resolution of Quest 2 or  Oculus Go 2 which ever comes first ( I am sure OC will not Kill GO and Go will remain as media consumption device.. thus more strong candidate to get 2K per eye resolution update, since it will be not focused on Gaming .. SD821/835 could handle video playback load at 2K per eye) 
    The thing is that GO isn't design to have a high cost - even if you could get that stuff in there in terms of specs - the cost would still be out side of what the hardware could afford. More or less - going forward here with Oculus at this time - will be slow jumps forward. Go will be the next to be updated UNLESS they show off some information about a Rift 2 after Valve display their headset. Most likely Go 2 will for go any more bumps in resolution and instead focus on better CPU/GPU and or added tracking cameras for a basic WMR experience in terms of a basic controller that can be used with GO.
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 2019
    Mradr said: 
    The thing is that GO isn't design to have a high cost - even if you could get that stuff in there in terms of specs - the cost would still be out side of what the hardware could afford. More or less - going forward here with Oculus at this time - will be slow jumps forward. Go will be the next to be updated UNLESS they show off some information about a Rift 2 after Valve display their headset. Most likely Go 2 will for go any more bumps in resolution and instead focus on better CPU/GPU and or added tracking cameras for a basic WMR experience in terms of a basic controller that can be used with GO.
    If go upgrade will add camera or WMR experience will it not defy the purpose of quest? for gaming quest is ideal choice, Go need to evolve as lower than quest priced media consumption platform.

    Regarding your view increasing resolution will increase cost, all i can say since displays are LCD shouldn't be too much expensive ..Ex. replacement 4K lcd of Sony Xperia Z5 premium cost $ 46 (~INR 3200) only....

    https://www.parts4repair.com/complete-screen-assembly-for-sony-xperia-z5-premium/
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,585 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Dilip said:
    Mradr said: 
    The thing is that GO isn't design to have a high cost - even if you could get that stuff in there in terms of specs - the cost would still be out side of what the hardware could afford. More or less - going forward here with Oculus at this time - will be slow jumps forward. Go will be the next to be updated UNLESS they show off some information about a Rift 2 after Valve display their headset. Most likely Go 2 will for go any more bumps in resolution and instead focus on better CPU/GPU and or added tracking cameras for a basic WMR experience in terms of a basic controller that can be used with GO.
    If go upgrade will add camera or WMR experience will it not defy the purpose of quest? for gaming quest is ideal choice, Go need to evolve as lower than quest priced media consumption platform.

    Regarding your view increasing resolution will increase cost, all i can say since displays are LCD shouldn't be too much expensive ..Ex. replacement 4K lcd of Sony Xperia Z5 premium cost $ 46 (~INR 3200) only....

    https://www.parts4repair.com/complete-screen-assembly-for-sony-xperia-z5-premium/
    Not quite - GO is already used in light gaming content - As for will it replace Quest - no. They could add 2 cameras much like how the WMR works. This would give it some basic access to controllers and over all bring it up to the next level with a stronger CPU/GPU. Over all I think customers would be happy to purchase a GO2 in this format. IT wont be as good as the Quest's 4 and better screens - but still work with in Quest echo system to sell more software - over all a win win for anyone looking into getting into VR while dealing with the limits/performance each setup up gives you (2 - 4 -5 cameras - all access to the same or close to the same software that a dev can break up into low - med - high settings on known hardware to aim for).

    LCD cost is super cheap sure and there will be room - but NOT any old LCD will work. They have to be fast enough ( and one of the reasons early VR went OLED ) to switch between colors or else you get black smear or other color effects and results in a pretty horrible image for the user that will get them sick. Its also one of the big things about the LCD they're using in GO right now - its call FAST SWITCH technology. So, yes, LCD has a little room to go - but finding a supplier can be just as hard as well. Plus you have the other factor as it getting the screen small enough to the resolution. The one you link is pretty crap when you break it down really. The PPI alone is just horrible, but the refresh rates are just as bad.

    Cost for a good VR screen goes up because:
    1) Size of the screen
    2) The resolution to the screen to size
    3) Technology to support higher refresh rates over 30-60HZ
    4) Pixel switching from off to on - or Gray to Gray
    5) Limited sells (not talking pass production on a cell phone level here)
    6) Full RGB vs Pentile or other pixel lays out (as we see with the Pimax - not ALL LCD are made the same and can result in some lower quility value. Pimax 5k vs Pimax 5k+ full vs pintile - Rift S vs CV1 etc etc)
    7) etc

    The other big thing they might work on is just removing the extra step to sign up with a phone. Not that its a big deal - but I am sure it really makes people pause when they have to do so. Even for bigger environments to deal with setting them up each time like that I am sure is a bit annoying too even if its just a one step thing - that can add up a lot of man hours over time.
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 2019

     I have DCS World (and DSC Warthog and  Black Shark prior to that).

    I think there may be significant differences between console and PC combat sims in that PC sims tend try and replicate many more aircraft systems as accurately as possible and perhaps that's the cause of my fondness for them and at the same time my frustration at them not performing well in VR.

    DCS World is a major improvement performance-wise put still pushes my system to its limits with CV1 (if I want most of the eye candy turned up),

    @DaftnDirect
    Good news if you ever plan RIFT S, The developer of DCS World declared in DCS World all inside cockpit text clearly visible on RIFT S.
    https://uploadvr.com/dcs-developer-on-oculus-rift-s-cockpit-resolution-i-can-read-everything/
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,470 Volunteer Moderator
    Nice @Dilip , if I don't need to upgrade my GPU just yet, but still get clearer visuals and a decent frame rate, I'll take it!
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.657)
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,165 Valuable Player
    HP's product page still just says available april..  come on already! :)
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,735 Volunteer Moderator
    Yup seen the business version is on there available April = https://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/mixed-reality-headset/index.html
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 824
    3Jane
    edited April 2019
    CrashFu said:
    People are trashing on Rift-S because it can't see the controllers directly behind your back or when touching your face  (and allowing for hybrid Insight / Constellation tracking would fix that)... but this thing can't even track the controllers if they leave your immediate field of view.
    Even with that, I'll still get less occlusion than I did with my 2 sensor Rift set up. To me it seems like critics of the S who have a Rift have suddenly developed this idea that external sensors are occlusion free. When the two are compared it's only the S that gets marked for some occlusion behind you. I set my Rift up NOT according to proper directions (bypass the warning). 7' up in the room corners and 12' apart. Always had minor issues. I'll have less issues and occlusion with inside out I'm sure. Anyone who sets up a 2 sensor Rift the way the setup wants you two (in front and less than 6' apart) you are going to have 2 weak points where occlusion will occur.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,585 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    jayhawk said:
    CrashFu said:
    People are trashing on Rift-S because it can't see the controllers directly behind your back or when touching your face  (and allowing for hybrid Insight / Constellation tracking would fix that)... but this thing can't even track the controllers if they leave your immediate field of view.
    Even with that, I'll still get less occlusion than I did with my 2 sensor Rift set up. To me it seems like critics of the S who have a Rift have suddenly developed this idea that external sensors are occlusion free. When the two are compared it's only the S that gets marked for some occlusion behind you. I set my Rift up NOT according to proper directions (bypass the warning). 7' up in the room corners and 12' apart. Always had minor issues. I'll have less issues and occlusion with inside out I'm sure. Anyone who sets up a 2 sensor Rift the way the setup wants you two (in front and less than 6' apart) you are going to have 2 weak points where occlusion will occur.
    For a good chunk of it - it was - even with the example of them in front behind one other - it was such a small area it didn't really matter. Even then - my camera setup didn't have that issue anyways. Comparing my camera setup to the Rift S - it is like losing half of my 4 cameras worth of tracking area. 

    For me - the Rift S tracking is still a "down grade" to what I had with my CV1 setup even on the worst day where one of the cameras wasn't working correctly leaving me with 3. I think saying that Rift S is as good as the current tracking method is just a slap in the face for the people that had it working perfectly with zero or very little unnoticeable occlusion. With that said - the setup time for Rift S and CV1 is a lot cleaner and doesn't require a large amount of USB cables and there for less trouble shooting. It's all a trade off - but it is a THING that is going to be real so can't ignore or say it isn't there. Good example of why I wont be going the Rift S is because in games like Onward - I would aim my gun in one direction - turn my head to look at the other side and if I hear something - I could shoot to either scare them off or get time to turn my head back. I won whole 3v1 games by my self doing that. In this case - as soon as I turn my head - the controllers will be consider "behind me" and poof - no tracking. "Behind you" is relative to where you are looking and not where your butt is.

    People will now have to make a choice - LH or Rift S tracking - and the differences both offers for their price points and their different needs. 
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,022 Valuable Player
    A lot to take in on May 1st. I will wait and see then decide which HMD to get.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,987 Valuable Player
    A lot to take in on May 1st. I will wait and see then decide which HMD to get.

    Have to agree - an incredible amount to decipher, first with the Standalone or tethered PC, then the bewildering selection from OculusVR, HP, Valve, Pimax, Pico, HTC and Samsung - and then the hard part of evaluating all the reviews and addressing each ones bias. Finally to have to then consider the real issue of also which one of these choices has the best software options!

    For any "Prosumer" this would be a challenge, but for the average mainstream that the market it trying to attract this could be a choice they are just not prepared to make with such a bewildering choice. A lot rests on Quest coming out as the best compromise solution. 
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,585 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    kevinw729 said:
    A lot to take in on May 1st. I will wait and see then decide which HMD to get.

    Have to agree - an incredible amount to decipher, first with the Standalone or tethered PC, then the bewildering selection from OculusVR, HP, Valve, Pimax, Pico, HTC and Samsung - and then the hard part of evaluating all the reviews and addressing each ones bias. Finally to have to then consider the real issue of also which one of these choices has the best software options!

    For any "Prosumer" this would be a challenge, but for the average mainstream that the market it trying to attract this could be a choice they are just not prepared to make with such a bewildering choice. A lot rests on Quest coming out as the best compromise solution. 
    I thought you said Samsung was working on a product much like the Quest? I could see Quest hitting 1-2mil units before the end of this year if everything goes well. More if they can keep up with the demand and holiday sells.

    I'm sure mainstream will be confused at first what to get - but I consider mainstream being the target selling group - and that group doesn't own a powerful enough computer anyways. In this case - Quest will be the middle ground between owning a console/pc hardware + buying the headset. People that want only VR will see the Quest as the cheaper option between all three - but at the same - will be comparing the Quest to owning a console and what both bring to the table at that price point. I think we will see a lot of talks about "Why should I buy a Quest that is limited to VR and not a console that I can play both VR and flat screen games?"
  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 824
    3Jane
    edited April 2019
    Mradr said:
    jayhawk said:
    CrashFu said:
    For a good chunk of it - it was - even with the example of them in front behind one other - it was such a small area it didn't really matter. Even then - my camera setup didn't have that issue anyways. Comparing my camera setup to the Rift S - it is like losing half of my 4 cameras worth of tracking area. 

    For me - the Rift S tracking is still a "down grade" to what I had with my CV1 setup even on the worst day where one of the cameras wasn't working correctly leaving me with 3. I think saying that Rift S is as good as the current tracking method is just a slap in the face for the people that had it working perfectly with zero or very little unnoticeable occlusion. With that said - the setup time for Rift S and CV1 is a lot cleaner and doesn't require a large amount of USB cables and there for less trouble shooting. It's all a trade off - but it is a THING that is going to be real so can't ignore or say it isn't there. Good example of why I wont be going the Rift S is because in games like Onward - I would aim my gun in one direction - turn my head to look at the other side and if I hear something - I could shoot to either scare them off or get time to turn my head back. I won whole 3v1 games by my self doing that. In this case - as soon as I turn my head - the controllers will be consider "behind me" and poof - no tracking. "Behind you" is relative to where you are looking and not where your butt is.

    People will now have to make a choice - LH or Rift S tracking - and the differences both offers for their price points and their different needs. 
    All front facing 2 sensor set ups will have 2 occlusion points, either behind the back where neither sensor can see or in front if you turn 180 degrees away from the sensors. I would experience occlusion in every game I played that allowed for 360. Sure if you have a 3+ sensor setup then its basically no occlusion if set up right. 

    You don't know from experience Onward would have issues. Too many negative assumptions out there before anyone has even tried the game in question. Lone Echo is another one that's 'unplayable'. I would bet Onward is just fine. I try to simulate aiming and looking myself and no hand ends up directly behind my head. I've got Onward I'm going to give it a try when I get my S now.
  • MrDeath_MrDeath_ Posts: 44
    Brain Burst
    edited April 2019
    jayhawk said:
    All front facing 2 sensor set ups will have 2 occlusion points, either behind the back where neither sensor can see or in front if you turn 180 degrees away from the sensors. I would experience occlusion in every game I played that allowed for 360. Sure if you have a 3+ sensor setup then its basically no occlusion if set up right. 

    You don't know from experience Onward would have issues. Too many negative assumptions out there before anyone has even tried the game in question. Lone Echo is another one that's 'unplayable'. I would bet Onward is just fine. I try to simulate aiming and looking myself and no hand ends up directly behind my head. I've got Onward I'm going to give it a try when I get my S now.
    We'll make sure that people will be able to play Onward with the Rift S and similar tracked devices.

    We might post some info in next week's sitrep post of what this exactly is. :)
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,585 Valuable Player
    MrDeath_ said:
    jayhawk said:
    All front facing 2 sensor set ups will have 2 occlusion points, either behind the back where neither sensor can see or in front if you turn 180 degrees away from the sensors. I would experience occlusion in every game I played that allowed for 360. Sure if you have a 3+ sensor setup then its basically no occlusion if set up right. 

    You don't know from experience Onward would have issues. Too many negative assumptions out there before anyone has even tried the game in question. Lone Echo is another one that's 'unplayable'. I would bet Onward is just fine. I try to simulate aiming and looking myself and no hand ends up directly behind my head. I've got Onward I'm going to give it a try when I get my S now.
    We'll make sure that people will be able to play Onward with the Rift S and similar tracked devices.

    We might post some info in next week's sitrep post of what this exactly is. :)
    Can't tell you enough how much I love Onward:)) !!!
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    TomCgcmfc said:
    I just got a nice refurbished Rift a couple of weeks ago (usual audio ribbon problem) and also bought a 3rd sensor.  So, I hope I'm good for a couple more years, till CV-2 comes out.  

    One thing for sure, it will be a very frosty day down under before I ever muck around with Window Mixed Reality (WMR) again.  I suffered with it for 5 months before seeing the Oculus light.  

    When Oculus Home 2.0 haters blab on about how it sucks, I really think they owe it to themselves (and others) to shift over to WMR for a while (maybe permanently, lol!).
    I made the switch to WMR primarily 6+ months ago and I've enjoyed it and it works well. I use my O+ every day. I've never ripped home though other than complaining about how long it takes to load. WMR cliff house is definitely on the simple side but you spend 99% of the time in games or in SteamVR with it anyway. There's a lot of the convenience apps that don't work with the rift but do work on WMR like FPSVR that are quality of life items.
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 1,752 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    pyro, glad to hear your O+ and WMR are both working well for you.  All my flight and racing sims have options to show the current FPS so FPSVR not something I need.  Oculus Debug tool can also do this of course.  I hope for your sake Microsoft continues to promote and develop WMR.

    Custom built gaming desktop; i9 9900k (water cooled) oc to 5ghz, gtx 1080 ti (from my old AGA), 32 gb 3000hz ram, 1 tb ssd, 4 tb hdd.  Asus  ROG Maximus xi hero wifi mb, StarTech 4 port/4 controller sata powered usb3.0 pcie card, Asus VG248QE 1080p 144hz gaming monitor, Oculus Rift cv1 w/2x sensors, Vive Pro, Vive Cosmos, Vive Wireless.

  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,735 Volunteer Moderator
    Still nothing on the HP Reverb release......my money is ready!!!!
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,987 Valuable Player
    Techy111 said:
    Still nothing on the HP Reverb release......my money is ready!!!!

    Just back from an Enterprise event sponsored partly by Microsoft and HP - had a longer chance to try the Reverb, and also speak with the R&D and sales team. At the moment HP are focused on the Enterprise business for their system, but will be making announcements about the consumer bundle later in the year.
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,735 Volunteer Moderator
    Already pre-ordered via chat on the business side.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,987 Valuable Player
    Techy111 said:
    Already pre-ordered via chat on the business side.

    You and a number of my clients  B)
    One question, when you ordered, was there an option for the upgrade to the Reverb+?
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
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