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High end oculus vr.. don't hold your breath

bigmike20vt
Visionary
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=3&hl=de&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=...

Pretty bleak reading imo excuse long link Google shortener not working on it
Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR 🙂
401 REPLIES 401

Anonymous
Not applicable

MowTin said:


snowdog said:
Both. The Rift S is a high end headset coming in a few weeks and the CV2 will be the next one coming in 2022.

The Rift S is only a notch below the Vive Pro in terms of clarity, it's going to be a high end headset.


How could the rift be high-end when it doesn't have IPD adjustment or earphones to save a few bucks?

It's a mid-range VR headset. Better than the cheap WMR headsets but not as good as a Vive Pro. And when you add knuckles controllers, it's even a bigger difference. 

It's just a fact that it was designed to be affordable. It's a Honda, not a BMW. But Hondas are good cars. Great fuel mileage, reliability, and resale value. Rift-S excellent quality, reasonable price but it's not high-end. 



It's a high end headset for the reasons I've stated. It has high end clarity and high end tracking. If it wasn't for the tracking the WVR headsets would also be high end headsets, but the poor tracking makes them mid range.

bigmike20vt
Visionary

snowdog said:


KoBak07 said:


snowdog said:

Oculus still is a high end brand with a soon to be released high end headset. It doesn't just come down to specs. For my money, despite the 2K resolution, the soon to be released Acer Ojo and HP Reverb are both mi range headsets. Why? Because the tracking isn't good enough for them or any other WVR headsets to be considered to be high end headsets.

All hands on reports for the Rift S have been positive so far despite the trade offs both Oculus and Lenovo made during the design of the thing.


So that high end headset is coming soon or in 2022?



Both. The Rift S is a high end headset coming in a few weeks and the CV2 will be the next one coming in 2022.

The Rift S is only a notch below the Vive Pro in terms of clarity, it's going to be a high end headset.


You post with confidence, i will give you that snowdog, i imagine it will work well in an interview 🙂
the truth is you have no clue, and nether do I.  You HOPE an all singing all dancing dome like hmd will come out in a few years time but really you are just going on faith... which is fine and all but i do think you should probably make it clear in your posts you are guessing just like the rest of us.
remember it was not so long ago you were equally certain that oculus would never release a small upgrade device and at the same time that it would be commercial suicide for oculus to wait until 2021 even iirc for CV2.
I really wish your 1st guess had been correct, I now hope your 2nd guess is also correct................. but those who think PC is now a secondary platform which will continue to get cheaper mid range hmds and that the quest is where oculus will focus most of their development is imo just as likely a prediction.
The RiftS is a nice upgrade in some aspects, but, without sensor support (which oculus tease us may come) tracking will be compromised in a few areas, LCD vs oled again is a trade off, the loss of refresh rate is something i remember some posters panning pimax for with the 5k and the 8k, but the biggest thing making me worry about riftS is the lack of proper IPD adjustement.  I know you are equally convinced riftS will be just fine for those with extreme IPDs.... but when oculus themselves admit for some the riftS is not for them and for those they suggest get a CV1 or a quest then i think there is good reason to be concerned.
What we really all need, and something which will stop most of this bickering is for oculus to open their store to all devices and i really hope openXR allows this.  I am not sure who is at fault for oculus not supporting other headsets but either way it is hurting VR as as whole imo as it is that kind of thing which makes some potential adopters sit on the fence and wait to see the winner.
no one wants to be the owner of the betamax, the HDDVD, the saturn. or the 3DO.
(I still have a HDDVD drive btw, and i was one of the mugs who bought a CD32 on launch and it does sting being on the losing platform)
Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR 🙂

bigmike20vt
Visionary

Zenbane said:


Here is a brief commercial interruption for the sake of laughs...

nhd8e7ykbp8a.jpg


to be completely honest i think it is fair to suggest we have the vive to thank for the tracking we have with the rift. I do fully believe the rift WAS meant to be primarily a forward facing 270 degree motion controller tracked device.
i think iirc oculus even stated this in the early days.  It would explain why the rift lauched with 2 sensors, why for the initial 12 months or so after launch the settings only supported forward facing and why the cable on the hmd is so short.

then the vive came out with its full 360degree tracking and oculus adapted.... it took some time with some buggy issues in the early days but now, with a 3 sensor set up i believe in an average - above average sized room the rift tracks every bit as well as the vive in full 360 degrees.
but with out the vive i think we would still be like at touch lauch, with a much more psvr like tracking.

so for that i thank valve.
Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR 🙂

Anonymous
Not applicable
Sorry too @snowdog if I come out strong saying you might be wrong too. I see it both ways in terms of the direction Oculus could go. I agree mostly with you in terms of I want good VR and that price alone shouldn't hold us back if it includes a step forward in hardware advancement. It's just what I am seeing right now and what some forum users are saying just doesn't look good, and at the end of the day, I just want more information from Oculus to say what they are wanting to do and what their future plans look like. Waiting 3 years just to find out, at least from my point of view, isn't reasonable to ask of its customer base to have faith in. Either direction they go is fine and I understand - but small comments they made over the release of Quest and Rift S makes me do a double take from what they said at the start. 

I do hope openXR opens the door too. Remember, at the end of the day, Oculus is a store as well. Their main goal is to sell software. If we can get a thin layer to support any headset you want to play - then that works perfect and sure does open the market to whatever headset you want to use on any store that supports it. Software is key for any hardware solution and that will be the way for VR as a whole to move forward.

Image result for openxr

Question though, will openXR use whatever API design for the store/product or will they their own API sets? I mean for example, if I use a Vive Pro and run Oculus' store software - would you get the benefit of ASW - while if you run Oculus on Steam's store software you will get their version ASW? OR you will get whatever the HMD supported for their API set? OR You will get openXR ASW version? The diagram is a bit confusing to read:)

I do hope its the first - this way the store can always have a leg up on another store if they wish to from software advancements while providing whatever hardware you want to use. This means buying software from the Oculus store would have great value over buying steam software while at the same time using a Valve Index for higher spec hardware. Win win for the customer - but I can understand why the company may not like selling their hardware at a lost if they can't a win in the store front too:) I would assume at that point though - it be up to the store to keep software coming in so customers buy on their store over the other and to work on getting better features setup for their store in the first place.

bigmike20vt
Visionary

MowTin said:

It's just a fact that it was designed to be affordable. It's a Honda, not a BMW. But Hondas are good cars. Great fuel mileage, reliability, and resale value. Rift-S excellent quality, reasonable price but it's not high-end. 


I wanted to reply to this post especially last night but my phone would not let me log in.


honda are not a bad example of where i would like oculus to be actually... offering affordable reliable devices at 1 end of the market, but also offer a more balls to the wall device at the higher end for those who want to pay a bit more.

Fiat are an even better example.

they make this

and they make this




Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR 🙂

Anonymous
Not applicable


to be completely honest i think it is fair to suggest we have the vive to thank for the tracking we have with the rift. I do fully believe the rift WAS meant to be primarily a forward facing 270 degree motion controller tracked device.
i think iirc oculus even stated this in the early days.  It would explain why the rift lauched with 2 sensors, why for the initial 12 months or so after launch the settings only supported forward facing and why the cable on the hmd is so short.

then the vive came out with its full 360degree tracking and oculus adapted.... it took some time with some buggy issues in the early days but now, with a 3 sensor set up i believe in an average - above average sized room the rift tracks every bit as well as the vive in full 360 degrees.
but with out the vive i think we would still be like at touch lauch, with a much more psvr like tracking.

so for that i thank valve.


Um, Vive always had 360 (one of its main selling points and why it was selling more units than Oculus for a bit even though it 200$ more than the Rift)... yes... Oculus was just a seated experience at the time of release (or was their main goal), but people wanted more - so standing was, "oked", but we didn't have controllers yet. It wasn't till the touch controllers came out that front facing was a thing from that point on that then turn into 360 for 3 or 4 cameras.

inovator
Consultant



snowdog said:


KoBak07 said:


snowdog said:

Oculus still is a high end brand with a soon to be released high end headset. It doesn't just come down to specs. For my money, despite the 2K resolution, the soon to be released Acer Ojo and HP Reverb are both mi range headsets. Why? Because the tracking isn't good enough for them or any other WVR headsets to be considered to be high end headsets.

All hands on reports for the Rift S have been positive so far despite the trade offs both Oculus and Lenovo made during the design of the thing.


So that high end headset is coming soon or in 2022?



Both. The Rift S is a high end headset coming in a few weeks and the CV2 will be the next one coming in 2022.

The Rift S is only a notch below the Vive Pro in terms of clarity, it's going to be a high end headset.


You post with confidence, i will give you that snowdog, i imagine it will work well in an interview 🙂
the truth is you have no clue, and nether do I.  You HOPE an all singing all dancing dome like hmd will come out in a few years time but really you are just going on faith... which is fine and all but i do think you should probably make it clear in your posts you are guessing just like the rest of us.
remember it was not so long ago you were equally certain that oculus would never release a small upgrade device and at the same time that it would be commercial suicide for oculus to wait until 2021 even iirc for CV2.
I really wish your 1st guess had been correct, I now hope your 2nd guess is also correct................. but those who think PC is now a secondary platform which will continue to get cheaper mid range hmds and that the quest is where oculus will focus most of their development is imo just as likely a prediction.
The RiftS is a nice upgrade in some aspects, but, without sensor support (which oculus tease us may come) tracking will be compromised in a few areas, LCD vs oled again is a trade off, the loss of refresh rate is something i remember some posters panning pimax for with the 5k and the 8k, but the biggest thing making me worry about riftS is the lack of proper IPD adjustement.  I know you are equally convinced riftS will be just fine for those with extreme IPDs.... but when oculus themselves admit for some the riftS is not for them and for those they suggest get a CV1 or a quest then i think there is good reason to be concerned.
What we really all need, and something which will stop most of this bickering is for oculus to open their store to all devices and i really hope openXR allows this.  I am not sure who is at fault for oculus not supporting other headsets but either way it is hurting VR as as whole imo as it is that kind of thing which makes some potential adopters sit on the fence and wait to see the winner.
no one wants to be the owner of the betamax, the HDDVD, the saturn. or the 3DO.
(I still have a HDDVD drive btw, and i was one of the mugs who bought a CD32 on launch and it does sting being on the losing platform)


How can you say he has no clue and posts on faith. That may be true with the index. Nobody has tried that. But we have seen quite a few hands on with the rift s and quest. It's easy to get more than a clue how tracking and visuals are going to be. When the rift and go were in the same stage as rift s and quest is now, it worked as I expected when it launched  because I paid close attention to all  of the reviews. Visuals and tracking will be very decent and high end on the s.

Anonymous
Not applicable

inovator said:

How can you say he has no clue and posts on faith. That may be true with the index. Nobody has tried that. But we have seen quite a few hands on with the rift s and quest. It's easy to get more than a clue how tracking and visuals are going to be. When the rift and go were in the same stage as rift s and quest is now, it worked as I expected when it launched  because I paid close attention to all  of the reviews. Visuals and tracking will be very decent and high end on the s.


He means faith that the CV2 will be any good - base on the direction that they are currently taking and commented on about Rift S decisions. We will not know for another 3 years on what they will do or not do until 3 years from now and that is why it is consider faith in what is going on. Basically - read the last two pages between snowdog and I in the fact they might not go a CV2 high end - but instead - just release in small bumps like we saw with Rift S while bring out the advancements first on other product lines instead of first on the pcvr side of things (witch I gave examples of them doing with the lenses, screens, tracking, etc).

bigmike20vt
Visionary

inovator said:






How can you say he has no clue and posts on faith. That may be true with the index. Nobody has tried that. But we have seen quite a few hands on with the rift s and quest. It's easy to get more than a clue how tracking and visuals are going to be. When the rift and go were in the same stage as rift s and quest is now, it worked as I expected when it launched  because I paid close attention to all  of the reviews. Visuals and tracking will be very decent and high end on the s.


You seem to have built a wacking big strawman about what i said!.
RiftS i am worried about for reasons i stated - no adjustable FOV and whilst some have said it is ok, oculus themselves admit it is not as good at the extremes.  Also tracking has some positives but we have SEEN videos of how it struggles in some areas. These are facts.. not opinions. I would like to see a video of somone playing pool properly in sportsbar VR.  IF it can do that, as well as lone echo whilst still playing naturally then the tracking at least i will be more relaxed about... but from what i have seen such videos are conspicuous by their absence....  but the ipd thing, this is a hardware issue which may be nothing to you, but everything to others.
The refresh rate of the panel i am not so worried about
myself, i had a DK2 and at 75hz it seemed great to me......... BUT
there is a danger of some double standards going on (not necessarily
here) but again, to reiterate i remember some people using the dropped
refresh on the pimax as a massive negative for the 5k and 8k... it seems
double standards anyone who had an issue with that then to be fine with
it on the RiftS.

but...... my main point was based around CV2 in 2022 and oculus future regarding PC VR.... and i stand by everything i said. 
Whether riftS you see as a high end device or mid range is kind of irrelevant, it is just your perspective, but its strengths and weaknesses are there.
I am confident for some it will be an upgrade over CV1 but if a person cant wear it comfortably due to their ipd for long periods then it is moot for them, and that is what i am worried about regarding RiftS (from my perspective)



Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR 🙂

LZoltowski
Champion
My 2 cents, I actually completely understand why high-end enthusiast-grade is not on the Horizon for Oculus. They want to be the Playstation / Nintendo / Xbox of VR ... pricepoint needs to be low, requirements to use must be low and there has to be little to no friction to get into it. Plenty of other manufacturers out there working on or releasing enthusiast level hardware. There is something for everyone. Things like revive will even let you play Oculus games.
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