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High end oculus vr.. don't hold your breath

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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,803 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    I didnt start the car analogy i was just responding to someone else and rolling with it ;)
    Oculus in part bought this on themselves by sending mixed messages.

    sure they did say that dome was no promises etc etc etc........ however you cant show off a hmd like the dome and then 12 months later seemingly massively distance themselves from it and not expect some people to be disappointed.

    If we had to use analogies perhaps TV analogies work a bit better.
    they all ultimately display the same programs over the same airwaves but there is still a range of models to suite different pockets..... this is where i would have liked to have seen oculus go (one may argue the go and quest do that, but they are totally different devices and use different software so imo not really valid).

    I dont think anyone has an issue with oculus bringing out an affordable device to try to sell to the masses.... but with a company the size of facebook behind them i think the issue is many people cant understand why they didnt also bring out a slightly higher end device along side it.... esp as oculus are not making it they are licencing it out to a 3rd party.

    anyways i am just repeating myself now so should probably just STFU :)

    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,718 Valuable Player
    No problem bigmike, I hope I was careful not to target anyone with my analogy thing, it was really a criticism of the analogy not of anyone... unfortunately my post came straight after yours which was just coincidence as I think you're the least likely to make poor analogies.

    Yeah half dome is a problem for Oculus as much as a solution depending on how things eventually turn out!
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  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,302 Valuable Player
    It's called a change of direction for Oculus in their PC-VR business model.
    And they certainly have changed that big time in the last year.
    Thankfully at least there are others out there that are picking that mantle up.
    Don

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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,803 Valuable Player
    No problem bigmike, I hope I was careful not to target anyone with my analogy thing, it was really a criticism of the analogy not of anyone... unfortunately my post came straight after yours which was just coincidence as I think you're the least likely to make poor analogies.

    Yeah half dome is a problem for Oculus as much as a solution depending on how things eventually turn out!
    its all good anyway, after all it is all out of our hands we are just along for the ride.. and i do fully admit i love an analogy. I didnt see it as a criticism.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    I've mentioned that analogies aren't great for comparing to VR but cars really are the worst!

    Car manufactures can produce whatever they like in the knowledge that the infrastructure is there... the roads are  there... the petrol stations are there (sorry gas stations). Every car manufacturer is free to choose their target customer, safe in the knowledge that they can sell mass-market or small scale performance/specialist vehicles, able to make a profit on every vehicle they sell, without concerning themselves with the long term success of the automobile industry/road network ecosystem as a whole. The oil companies all make huge profits, road construction and maintenance is publicly funded.

    EV is the only car analogy that comes close. Tesla had to build a network of chargers to plicate potential buyer's range anxiety. But even then, the only chance Tesla has of surviving is to make an affordable non-performance EV which they're trying to do. As of the end of 2018, after 10 years, the company has a net loss of $1 billion.

    But even then this analogy is pointless, the infrastructure of roads isn't something Telsa has to contribute to. Regardless of Telsa's business plan, climate change is driving everyone to move to EV anyway. Governments are banning ICE vehicles from major cities and putting rules in place to ban them totally in the future.

    VR headset manufacturers have none of these external influences. They have to grow the ecosystems themselves. They can't target anyone without there being a long-term business case that makes sense.
    What do you mean? Most of what VR is already built in the form of cell phones creating the way for high performance low power chips that even goes as far as manufacturing of these devices to keep cost low. Same for screen technology used in most VR headsets. They are design for more than one application of use. The computer hardware has out match software needs for a little while now allowing VR to raw brut force its way to work in today's software.

    Short of Vision tracking and Eye tracking - there really has not been anything VR has had to create yet on its own. IR tracking has been around for a long time as well. Even in the future - there are still many leading technologies that will be used to carry it forward for a while.

    Software wise - there has many been many advancements - but even then - most of them has been around for a while. FOVA turn into VRS for the most part or future FOVA is going to be relying on it more if anything. AWS is the only major software that VR had to create so far - but even then its more of nice to have than it requirement.

    VR has the added benfit of games engines already starting the work from 2D - 3D and not a full refresh of how programming, 3d models, etc works. So that road was already created - they just needed to render it 2x times for the most part - really even then - they just need to work with the API not create new API for VR as the headset creators would do that work instead (and soon that will disappear with openXR).

    My point is that is why we saw soo many early VR devices - granted most of them die off for one reason or another - but VR still could built off what was already there instead of trying to built it from the ground up.

    VR will have all this soon enough - it really just comes down to what the manufacturers want to produce now and their target audiences. Some are going to try and go the Quest route and others will try to build a better spec HMD and we are seeing that right now.

    Sorry, I am not trying to get into this argument either XD I am just confused when you say the roads are already built - it just sounds the same as the hardware/software was already there for VR to built with. They still need to build it out - but the "idea" is good as built in terms of what we can do right now.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,866 Valuable Player
    to be completely honest i think it is fair to suggest we have the vive to thank for the tracking we have with the rift. I do fully believe the rift WAS meant to be primarily a forward facing 270 degree motion controller tracked device.

    lol... right. Well, that's not how intellectual property works. However, I will simply respond to you with the same words you said to snowdog: You post with confidence, i will give you that, i imagine it will work well in an interview
    ;)

    inovator said:
    How can you say he has no clue and posts on faith. That may be true with the index. Nobody has tried that. But we have seen quite a few hands on with the rift s and quest.
    Agreed. There are far too many hands-on Reviews of both Rift-S and Quest by notorious names (e.g. Tested) and tons of newcomers. Even people going to PAX events are raving about how good these HMD's are on Facebook's VR groups. The debates in this thread, and this forum in general, tend to focus too much on theorycrafting. Especially by those who want to intentionally take a negative stance due to the fact that Facebook has decided to avoid directly competing with the Vive Pro and Pimax HMD's.

    There are TWO Races to the Bottom in PCVR today:
    1. Hardware spec wise. Vive Pro and Pimax 5K/8K are trying to race to the top tier of 1st Gen PCVR HMD's. While Facebook and Oculus appear to be racing to the bottom by going with a more cookie-cutter approach via inside-out tracking and something more affordable and convenient for the masses.
    2. Profit and Revenue. HTC ran out of money a long time ago and sold IP to Google to avoid Bankruptcy after over 9 consecutive Quarters (over 27 months) of pure financial loss. Pimax needed a Kickstarter to get out their 2nd Consumer products even though they were already on the market with a PCVR CV1 headset that was an epic flop. Both Pimax and HTC are racing to the bottom of the financial spectrum by tying their organization success to the top tier of PCVR which has already proven to be so niche and exclusive a market that on financial loss awaits. Meanwhile, Facebook and Oculus are racing to the top of the Global Mainstream Consumer Market with mass adoption.

    In the year 2019, to argue in favor of manufacturing the highest-end of PCVR Hardware is in fact to argue in favor of embracing financial ruin.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,718 Valuable Player
    I think the things you've listed there @Mradr are the equivalent of the nuts and bolts that car manufacturers rely on and can be used for everything from mobile phones to consoles as you say, rather than the roads and the gas (argh, you've gottn me into this analogy thing now!).

    I'm talking about the infrastructure that people look at when they weigh up the pros and cons of buying into VR. I'm talking about game availability and to a lesser extent hardware compatibility and cost.

    I'm talking about Oculus' business case and whether sustainability and profit is in site.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,866 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    Mradr said:
    Most of what VR is already built in the form of cell phones creating the way for high performance low power chips that even goes as far as manufacturing of these devices to keep cost low. Same for screen technology used in most VR headsets. They are design for more than one application of use. The computer hardware has out match software needs for a little while now allowing VR to raw brut force its way to work in today's software.

    Short of Vision tracking and Eye tracking - there really has not been anything VR has had to create yet on its own. IR tracking has been around for a long time as well. Even in the future - there are still many leading technologies that will be used to carry it forward for a while.

    Software wise - there has many been many advancements - but even then - most of them has been around for a while. FOVA turn into VRS for the most part or future FOVA is going to be relying on it more if anything. AWS is the only major software that VR had to create so far.

    VR has the added benfit of games engines already starting the work from 2D - 3D and not a full refresh of how programming, 3d models, etc works. So that road was already created - they just needed to render it 2x times for the most part - really even then - they just need to work with the API not create new API for VR as the headset creators would do that work instead (and soon that will disappear with openXR).

    My point is that is why we saw soo many early VR devices - granted most of them die off for one reason or another - but VR still could built off what was already there instead of trying to built it from the ground up.

    VR will have all this soon enough - it really just comes down to what the manufacturers want to produce now and their target audiences. Some are going to try and go the Quest route and others will try to build a better spec HMD and we are seeing that right now.

    Wow, there was so much wrong in that entire wall of text that I can't figure out how to avoid writing a 10,000 word essay in response. That was some massive amounts of misinformation about VR and Technology with a healthy dose of misrepresentation and a side-dish of downplaying innovation. Bravo, sir!

    I think you're a nice guy, Mradr, but I nominate that as: The worst post about VR and Technology of 2019.

    Thus I give you, Video Response!


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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,803 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    Zenbane said:
    to be completely honest i think it is fair to suggest we have the vive to thank for the tracking we have with the rift. I do fully believe the rift WAS meant to be primarily a forward facing 270 degree motion controller tracked device.

    lol... right. Well, that's not how intellectual property works. However, I will simply respond to you with the same words you said to snowdog: You post with confidence, i will give you that, i imagine it will work well in an interview
    ;)

    whic is why i "suggested" it and said what i believe...  there was no, or not meant to be any statement that i was making as a nailed on fact.

    and again, i was being misquoted i was not saying he has no clue about the rift S that was a strawman argument that i never made....  @snowdog has at least as much of a clue about RiftS as I do.... for him the rift S may be a decent device but i am outside of its officially supported IPD so i have reasons for concern my end.

    also despite all the videos of the tracking i have yet to see someone playing pool or playing lone echo, so i think the concerns there are real as well, esp as they are so easy to put to bed i am curious why they havent been.

    edit
    btw just to add.. i know the S has extra cameras to improve tracking but this is the kind of BS i am concerned about.

    this works perfectly using the current rift..... but will it work with riftS ? (without having to resort to what the windowsMR guys have to?)


    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,809
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    Zenbane said:
    to be completely honest i think it is fair to suggest we have the vive to thank for the tracking we have with the rift. I do fully believe the rift WAS meant to be primarily a forward facing 270 degree motion controller tracked device.

    lol... right. Well, that's not how intellectual property works. However, I will simply respond to you with the same words you said to snowdog: You post with confidence, i will give you that, i imagine it will work well in an interview
    ;)

    inovator said:
    How can you say he has no clue and posts on faith. That may be true with the index. Nobody has tried that. But we have seen quite a few hands on with the rift s and quest.
    Agreed. There are far too many hands-on Reviews of both Rift-S and Quest by notorious names (e.g. Tested) and tons of newcomers. Even people going to PAX events are raving about how good these HMD's are on Facebook's VR groups. The debates in this thread, and this forum in general, tend to focus too much on theorycrafting. Especially by those who want to intentionally take a negative stance due to the fact that Facebook has decided to avoid directly competing with the Vive Pro and Pimax HMD's.

    There are TWO Races to the Bottom in PCVR today:
    1. Hardware spec wise. Vive Pro and Pimax 5K/8K are trying to race to the top tier of 1st Gen PCVR HMD's. While Facebook and Oculus appear to be racing to the bottom by going with a more cookie-cutter approach via inside-out tracking and something more affordable and convenient for the masses.
    2. Profit and Revenue. HTC ran out of money a long time ago and sold IP to Google to avoid Bankruptcy after over 9 consecutive Quarters (over 27 months) of pure financial loss. Pimax needed a Kickstarter to get out their 2nd Consumer products even though they were already on the market with a PCVR CV1 headset that was an epic flop. Both Pimax and HTC are racing to the bottom of the financial spectrum by tying their organization success to the top tier of PCVR which has already proven to be so niche and exclusive a market that on financial loss awaits. Meanwhile, Facebook and Oculus are racing to the top of the Global Mainstream Consumer Market with mass adoption.

    In the year 2019, to argue in favor of manufacturing the highest-end of PCVR Hardware is in fact to argue in favor of embracing financial ruin.
    Cookie cutter approach is actually a perfect description. Lol  oculus using a cookie cutter approach may = mainstream
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    Zenbane said:

    Wow, there was so much wrong in that entire wall of text that I can't figure out how to avoid writing a 10,000 word essay in response. That was some massive amounts of misinformation about VR and Technology with a healthy dose of misrepresentation and a side-dish of downplaying innovation. Bravo, sir!

    I think you're a nice guy, Mradr, but I nominate that as: The worst post about VR and Technology of 2019.
    LOL, but for real though:) Don't you remember all the VR headsets even around the DK1 and DK2 days that came out of the wood works around that time? If VR was hard to do - in terms of just getting it to work - then we wouldn't have seen cardboard VR. The idea of how VR works is simple enough even my little cousin can make it work in terms of throwing two off slightly view points to create a 3D image. I mean wasn't the point of PL goal was that VR could be made better than it was before just using off the shelf hardware for the DK1 release?

    Clam down Zen sweetie, I was talking to Daftn to understand his point - not create a new 10 page argument:)
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    I think the things you've listed there @Mradr are the equivalent of the nuts and bolts that car manufacturers rely on and can be used for everything from mobile phones to consoles as you say, rather than the roads and the gas (argh, you've gottn me into this analogy thing now!).

    I'm talking about the infrastructure that people look at when they weigh up the pros and cons of buying into VR. I'm talking about game availability and to a lesser extent hardware compatibility and cost.

    I'm talking about Oculus' business case and whether sustainability and profit is in site.
    Fair enough:) I was just asking:)) I thought you was meaning having to create the technology. Agree then - VR did have to create the ecosystem it self for sure. I mean a store just doesn't come out of no where and having to feed with software too. 

    But I know very little about cars so I am going to stay out of this:)
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,738 Volunteer Moderator
    edited April 16
    PCVR cannot and will not survive on enthusiast level high end users alone, until there are enough regular VR users out there. (How many multiplayer games in VR have barren lobbies as there are not enough people around)

    Gen 1 was an experiment for every company, now with enough data they can see that friction such as sensors, extreme resolutions (that require supercomputers to run, 1.6% of steam users have an RTX card), complicated setups are not what the mainstream wants or needs. GO was a huge success relative to the rift, "Price Point and Ease of Use, and no PC", that is what people want. Look at steam hardware surveys, most people play on potato laptops.

    The car analogy is great tho, what is the point of owning a Ferrari when there are no roads to drive on and no fuel to feed it ... also pretty barren wasteland with not many other Ferrari owners to race with.

    Other companies will create niche enthusiast level high-end hardware, that will give people more choice, whether they survive for long is another question.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,718 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    quick LZ, on that note close the thread

    joking, joking
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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,738 Volunteer Moderator
    People say it's a change of direction, of course, it is, they have the sales numbers, they have hardware logs on what people play on, they see how people play and see what are the most common issues. I would be worried if they didnt change direction based on the evidence.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,718 Valuable Player
    If Oculus were to post their accounts, sales figures, projections and confirm future hardware plans in this thread, that would help a lot to resolve this discussion.
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    PCVR cannot and will not survive on enthusiast level high end users alone, until there are enough regular VR users out there. (How many multiplayer games in VR have barren lobbies as there are not enough people around)

    Gen 1 was an experiment for every company, now with enough data they can see that friction such as sensors, extreme resolutions (that require supercomputers to run, 1.6% of steam users have an RTX card), complicated setups are not what the mainstream wants or needs. GO was a huge success relative to the rift, "Price Point and Ease of Use, and no PC", that is what people want. Look at steam hardware surveys, most people play on potato laptops.

    The car analogy is great tho, what is the point of owning a Ferrari when there are no roads to drive on and no fuel to feed it ... also pretty barren wasteland with not many other Ferrari owners to race with.

    Other companies will create niche enthusiast level high-end hardware, that will give people more choice, whether they survive for long is another question.
    Oh boy - the can of worms was open once again xDDDD
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,866 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    whic is why i "suggested" it and said what i believe...  there was no, or not meant to be any statement that i was making as a nailed on fact.
    There most certainly was a statement that was you made that represented your words as a fact. When you said this, "to be completely honest."

    You like to use both strong phrases and non-committal phrases in the same sentence as a tactical way to give you a scapegoat any moment someone counter-argues your point. But you should know that trick doesn't work on me!

    and again, i was being misquoted i was not saying he has no clue about the rift S that was a strawman argument that i never made..

    You are not being misquoted and there is no strawman. How can you say this, "I was not saying he has no clue" when you literally said this, "the truth is you have no clue."  You do realize that the rest of us are capable of reading and understanding English right? You said this to snowdog word-for-word: the truth is you have no clue.

    And you're now telling me this word-for-word: i was not saying he has no clue

    And now I will say this word-for-word: bigmike20vt literally has no clue what it means to tell someone that they have no clue.

    I also notice in both instances you completely warp any semblance of "truth" because you use phrases like, "to be completely honest" and "the truth is." My advice: Stop invoking what you think is the Truth and instead just work on being consistent. Also, stop telling people that they have no clue and then arguing moments later that you never claimed they had no clue! lol
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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,738 Volunteer Moderator
    Anyway, I think this topic has been discussed ad nauseum ... I vote to close the thread.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,401 Valuable Player
    If Oculus were to post their accounts, sales figures, projections and confirm future hardware plans in this thread, that would help a lot to resolve this discussion.

    Totally agree - though they would also need to come clean that this is a serious pivot (course correction) from the previous course and layout the implications for the existing user-base regarding this change (content cross-over, future support, etc.,) But sadly, as we know the communication skills towards the public are "limited" internally, and there is still an issue of restructuring going on since the last changes. Lets hope that with the release of Quest a new course can be defined and charted. 
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,866 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    Zenbane said:

    Wow, there was so much wrong in that entire wall of text that I can't figure out how to avoid writing a 10,000 word essay in response. That was some massive amounts of misinformation about VR and Technology with a healthy dose of misrepresentation and a side-dish of downplaying innovation. Bravo, sir!

    I think you're a nice guy, Mradr, but I nominate that as: The worst post about VR and Technology of 2019.
    LOL, but for real though:) Don't you remember all the VR headsets even around the DK1 and DK2 days that came out of the wood works around that time? If VR was hard to do - in terms of just getting it to work - then we wouldn't have seen cardboard VR. The idea of how VR works is simple enough even my little cousin can make it work in terms of throwing two off slightly view points to create a 3D image. I mean wasn't the point of PL goal was that VR could be made better than it was before just using off the shelf hardware for the DK1 release?

    Clam down Zen sweetie, I was talking to Daftn to understand his point - not create a new 10 page argument:)

    Okay but on the for reals though...

    You literally argued like this:
    Since man invented The Wheel back in 3,500 B.C. the fact is that Cars, Trucks, Airplanes, Construction Vehicles, and even Boats have not really introduced anything new in terms of innovation... because they all rely on The Wheel which was already build centuries ago.

    I think you should just reset and pretend that never happened. Or go back and edit your post and we can all pretend we didn't read it! lol
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    Zenbane said:

    Okay but on the for reals though...

    You literally argued like this:
    Since man invented The Wheel back in 3,500 B.C. the fact is that Cars, Trucks, Airplanes, Construction Vehicles, and even Boats have not really introduced anything new in terms of innovation... because they all rely on The Wheel which was already build centuries ago.

    I think you should just reset and pretend that never happened. Or go back and edit your post and we can all pretend we didn't read it! lol
    As they say - why keep reinventing the wheel if it already does what it should do:)? But as I said - that wasn't for you:) it was to understand what he was meaning:) Just ignore it sweetie.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,866 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    If Oculus were to post their accounts, sales figures, projections and confirm future hardware plans in this thread, that would help a lot to resolve this discussion.

    Totally agree - though they would also need to come clean that this is a serious pivot (course correction) from the previous course and layout the implications for the existing user-base regarding this change (content cross-over, future support, etc.,) But sadly, as we know the communication skills towards the public are "limited" internally, and there is still an issue of restructuring going on since the last changes. Lets hope that with the release of Quest a new course can be defined and charted. 

    I don't think it is fair to claim that Oculus should "come clean" about their "pivot (course correction)" when you have yet to come clean about your pivot (course correction) regarding the role Facebook and Oculus are playing in making Location-Based Entertainment a viable business model. Many of us read your posts from 2016-2018 where you argued that Consumer VR would only become mainstream if Location-Based Entertainment was able to "help drive it forward." Yet that never came to fruition. Now the world has witnessed Facebook and Oculus make Location-Based Entertainment more viable than ever with the launch of Oculus Quest. Prior to that, multiple articles have been released about the financial struggles and closures of LBE facilities around the world. LBE remained a struggling business model until very recently thanks to Oculus Quest.

    Yet anytime someone brings this up, you take offense and deny the situation. Which, much like you enjoy accusing Oculus of doing, means you do not come clean about this serious pivot (course correction).

    I think people should lead by example, especially if they are going to continue chastising public figures.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,866 Valuable Player
    Anyway, I think this topic has been discussed ad nauseum ... I vote to close the thread.

    Seconded. The thread is mostly "attack Oculus" vs "defend Oculus." And it's already attracting some of the older debates as well. Nothing new or insightful is really being discussed. I think the whole thing jumped the shark around Page 4.
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,803 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    Zenbane said:
    whic is why i "suggested" it and said what i believe...  there was no, or not meant to be any statement that i was making as a nailed on fact.
    There most certainly was a statement that was you made that represented your words as a fact. When you said this, "to be completely honest."

    You like to use both strong phrases and non-committal phrases in the same sentence as a tactical way to give you a scapegoat any moment someone counter-argues your point. But you should know that trick doesn't work on me!

    and again, i was being misquoted i was not saying he has no clue about the rift S that was a strawman argument that i never made..

    You are not being misquoted and there is no strawman. How can you say this, "I was not saying he has no clue" when you literally said this, "the truth is you have no clue."  You do realize that the rest of us are capable of reading and understanding English right? You said this to snowdog word-for-word: the truth is you have no clue.

    And you're now telling me this word-for-word: i was not saying he has no clue

    And now I will say this word-for-word: bigmike20vt literally has no clue what it means to tell someone that they have no clue.

    I also notice in both instances you completely warp any semblance of "truth" because you use phrases like, "to be completely honest" and "the truth is." My advice: Stop invoking what you think is the Truth and instead just work on being consistent. Also, stop telling people that they have no clue and then arguing moments later that you never claimed they had no clue! lol
    Christ on a bike!!!

    He has no clue about the dome like CV2 coming in 2022..... (neither does any of us outside of oculus) i think looking at it it is very clear i am not talking about riftS when i said that.

    " The truth is you have no clue, and nether do I.  You HOPE an all singing all dancing dome like hmd will come out in a few years time but really you are just going on faith..."

    I am not trying to give a get out clause, if i am wrong i am happy to put my hands up and admit it.  The "to be honest" was more about the conceding that it was valve how actually helped push oculus in a certain direction
    it was in your response to the knockout blow image you gave of oculus knocking out the vive

    *in my opinion, i could be wrong and oculus always intended to release a front facing system then change tactics 6 months or so after touch launch, but to me that seems unlikely*

    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    Zenbane said:
    Anyway, I think this topic has been discussed ad nauseum ... I vote to close the thread.

    Seconded. The thread is mostly "attack Oculus" vs "defend Oculus." And it's already attracting some of the older debates as well. Nothing new or insightful is really being discussed. I think the whole thing jumped the shark around Page 4.
    I don't know - I think Page 8 took the cake on this one:)) Third it:)

    Off-topic before it is close - should we start a monthly talking head stream of some of us just ducking it out :P?
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,866 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    He has no clue about the dome like CV2 coming in 2022..... (neither does any of us outside of oculus) i think looking at it it is very clear i am not talking about riftS when i said that.


    You are confusing 'clues' with 'facts.' The innovations of Dome were talked about at by Abrash at OC5. We received a lot of info on it, as well as confirmation that we shouldn't expect to see all of Dome's innovation "soon." In that context based on the facts presented, we can have a clue that 2022 is quite reasonable considering what was said at OC5 in 2018. It's certainly more of a 'clue' than you are giving credit for.

    I am not trying to give a get out clause

    Oh you sure did! And I pointed out exactly how you did it. I see no reason to repeat it. If you want to deny it, then good for you.
    ;)

    if i am wrong i am happy to put my hands up and admit it.

    Okay. Post a pic pls!


    The "to be honest" was more about the conceding that it was valve how actually helped push oculus in a certain direct *in my opinion, i could be wrong and oculus always intended to release a front facing system then change tactics 6 months or so after touch launch, but to me that seems unlikely*

    That's not how "honesty" works. You can't say, "to be honest, there's no such thing as gravity." That's not honesty. I think you mean to say, "in my opinion."

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,866 Valuable Player
    Christ on a bike!!!

    LMAO, I have to admit I have never heard this phrase before! I'm stealing it!


    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,803 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    To be honest is actually a crap phrase and i should have used better but i was in a rush... but you posted that knockout blow (which was just a light hearted post i know) but i was just giving valve a bit of credit...... maybe the rift did knock out the vive, but if i am being honest (deliberately using that word now to show  the context i meant ) rather than just for comedy value, it is only fair to say that i believe they are part of the reason we got 360 degree tracking of controllers in the rift.

    so yeah in my opinion would have been better... you see i am now (literally) putting my hands up and admitting it was poor use of words!.

    jesus that is a lot of typing for a nothing post!.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    jesus that is a lot of typing for a nothing post!.
    And people wonder how Zen and I get 5+ pages going:)
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