Valve Index - Specifications released. - Page 22 — Oculus
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Valve Index - Specifications released.

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  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,177
    Wintermute
    @DaftnDirect I believe they do!

    Be good, die great !
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,177
    Wintermute
    kojack said:
    (Anybody else think it's ironic that a controller with all fingers tracked is called the Index Controller?)  :)

    Be good, die great !
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,809 Valuable Player
    edited April 18
    It will always be knuckles to me. Just like the PS1 is PSX in my book and i still think of Xbox 1x as scorpio
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,809 Valuable Player
    edited April 18
    Sod all your cups of tea this is my mug for the night (it's not actually I won't be getting this again it's too strong for me) . My coffee mug is a UK pint

    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,889 Valuable Player
    Peat Souper? Interesting. At first glance I thought it read, Meat Pooper.
    :o
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,809 Valuable Player
    edited April 18
    It tasted like it to be honest .It's a well rated beer so just not to my taste 7% is a bit to spicy for me when it comes to beer. I am more of a 4-5% man for my ales

    Edit there I am again with my "to be honest". It is definitely a colloquial thing
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,753 Valuable Player
    We've got one at the store I work that's a 16%.  The Old Fashioned by Southern Tier.   Haven't had that one, myself, but I HAVE had a 14% russian imperial stout from Brewdog, called Radio Zombie Phone In.   Tasted better than I was expecting, honestly!

    Btw, what time will it be on the day we find out from Valve? First thing in the morning or like 12pm USA time?

    I think we're 6 hours behind here in the UK depending on what part of america Valve is based at. Are Valve in California? 

    Washington, actually, but it's the same time zone as California.

    Fun fact: Valve is currently facing a lawsuit from their state's native american tribe(s), because they profit from the gambling and sale of their microtransaction items, despite having no gambling license and not being subject to the same rules and regulations that the native american casinos are.  https://www.geekwire.com/2019/valve-hit-illegal-gambling-lawsuit-native-american-nation-operates-casino-washington-state/

    However bad that will be, it's probably nothing compared to the other current lawsuit against them, for violating international anti-trust laws.  Apparently they could be facing up to 10% of their annual global profits in fines for that one.
    https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/5/18296527/european-commission-valve-antitrust-objections-games-price   Of note:  Valve's close friends at Zenimax and Capcom are also being tried in this case... And Valve is trying to shift all the blame onto them.   :o

    Sure is a lot of scandal and potential financial problems to be involved in, right on the verge of a major hardware release!  But Valve basically has unlimited money and influence at this point, so I'm sure it won't derail the Index any more than Zenimax' lawsuit affected Oculus.
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,592 Valuable Player
    Someone should sue them for the 98% of the games in their store being complete pants :D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,454
    Project 2501
    snowdog said:
    Someone should sue them for the 98% of the games in their store being complete pants :D
    That's probably being generous considering they got like 60,000 games lol. 

    Yea those lawsuits are small potatoes stuff for Valve. But it is a PR hit. 

    I like that steam is a place all developers can experiment and release whatever, but there really needs to be a better way of featuring good games and letting the cream rise to the top. The curator system is too flawed. 
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,753 Valuable Player
    I like to think of the curation in stores like Oculus Home and GoG (and once upon a time, Steam) as being like... looking for a product on Amazon, and selecting the "Two Stars or Above" sorting option.  They typically only filter out the very worst products, or things that aren't safe / legal to sell.

    Whereas modern-day Steam is like going on craigslist and buying a cardboard box with the name of its supposed contents written on it.  Are the promised goods actually inside?  Are they broken into twenty pieces?  Does it actually contain a swarm of angry wasps instead?  Who knows!

    And honestly, I don't think this "Zero curation" policy of theirs is sustainable.  Sooner or later, somebody's going to  upload a great big virus install package disguised as a free game, and countless people will have downloaded it by the time word gets out and long before Steam admins actually take it down.   When that happens, no amount of issued steam credits or hiding behind a EULA will get Valve off the hook, or get back the customers they'll lose.

    So, uh.. those of you who end up getting the Index might wanna be wary of the first Index games to appear on the storefront, unless they're from a trusted developer.  You wouldn't want to be first in line to install anything untested :wink:
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,454
    Project 2501
    edited April 18
    There actually is an approval process for getting your game hosted on Steam, it's just lenient as long as you aren't breaking any laws or too risky for Valve to host. They recently denied several japanese games over nudity that has people upset.
    Their approval process is also for preventing like you said installing spyware or viruses on people's machines. They do check for that.
    The refund policy is the protection for buying a game that isnt very popular or is trash. I've bought several VR games that i ended up refunding because they were clearly unjustified in the cost I paid. it's not such a unique thing anymore with the refund policy but steam had it all along.

    As far as filtering above two stars, that's actually something I've always wanted and maybe it's possible but I never figured out how to do it. I want to filter based on the percentage of positive reviews and also by the date so like I only want the most recent games in last 3 years with at least an 80

    I usually stick to searching by tag and then sort by popularity or what's being experienced now and you can find all the top games pretty easily that way. The other option is stats and look at the 100 games with most players in them. Where it falls short for me is finding the lesser known diamonds among all the dross. Blanket denying the dross to me isn't really the answer because I've seen so many games that came out in bad shape with horrible reviews in Early Access and actually turned it around into great games with continuous updates.

    But yeah I hear you, the average person just wants to go find the latest triple a game or the most popular games and jump in. And they should make that easier to do.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,809 Valuable Player
    The valve regional pricing thing I actually have a bit of sympathy for. If valve lose that it won't benetfit us it will just hurt poorer countries, and have the added effect of we will lose access to cheap CDkeys. (Poor countries prices will rise ours won't drop).

    RE steam being doing refunds since for ever is not true either, it was bought in a few years ago. Over all I like it but it is a double edge sword as it put paid to the fire sales in the steam sales.

    RE valves lack of curation and content control it is a mess and it is the easiest way for the likes of oculus and epic to stand out... I get that some like to dig in the dirt for the rare jewel and others are just fundamentally against any form of "control" or censorship, well IF valve are to continue to put everything on their store imo it needs to be in a separated "uncurated" store imo and if we turn a filter on it all just vanishes , then only the quality titles can get voted out of the dross. This has issues with fake sockpuppet accounts so would need to some how be tied to actual reviews from PAYING users as well as some sort of trust system where certain accounts carry far more weight to promote and relegate content from the unfiltered mess. Steam as it stands is imo not fit for purpose.

    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,454
    Project 2501
    edited April 19
    The valve regional pricing thing I actually have a bit of sympathy for. If valve lose that it won't benetfit us it will just hurt poorer countries, and have the added effect of we will lose access to cheap CDkeys. (Poor countries prices will rise ours won't drop).

    RE steam being doing refunds since for ever is not true either, it was bought in a few years ago. Over all I like it but it is a double edge sword as it put paid to the fire sales in the steam sales.

    RE valves lack of curation and content control it is a mess and it is the easiest way for the likes of oculus and epic to stand out... I get that some like to dig in the dirt for the rare jewel and others are just fundamentally against any form of "control" or censorship, well IF valve are to continue to put everything on their store imo it needs to be in a separated "uncurated" store imo and if we turn a filter on it all just vanishes , then only the quality titles can get voted out of the dross. This has issues with fake sockpuppet accounts so would need to some how be tied to actual reviews from PAYING users as well as some sort of trust system where certain accounts carry far more weight to promote and relegate content from the unfiltered mess. Steam as it stands is imo not fit for purpose.

    Yea that was the first thing I thought about with the regional sales, seems to punish poor countries who now have to pay a LOT more for games. 

    Yea, my bad on the refunds, you had to jump through hoops to get a refund before they made it for any reason. 

    Yea that's pretty much what I was getting at with making good games stand out. You will run into politics there with developers unhappy that their project is being relegated to the B squad but obviously they can do it better than they are now. I personally don't like someone else deciding what games I should be playing so I like that steam is a one stop shop for most everything. At least half of the top 100 most popular games I actually find pretty terrible lol, but kids love them. 


  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,235 Volunteer Moderator
    The refund policy only came in after the australian government sued them for breaking consumer laws for not refunding.

    I've only ever refunded one purchase on Steam. I bought Tilt Brush for my college's steam account for our Vive, then realised a few minutes later we got a free tilt brush key with it. :)

  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,454
    Project 2501
    kojack said:
    The refund policy only came in after the australian government sued them for breaking consumer laws for not refunding.

    I've only ever refunded one purchase on Steam. I bought Tilt Brush for my college's steam account for our Vive, then realised a few minutes later we got a free tilt brush key with it. :)

    I've refunded many but I own a lot over there. Over 600 last I checked across two accounts. I always go in with intent to give the game a legitimate shot but doesn't always work out. I've gotten refunds out of them before the any reason policy change which is why I flubbed.  I actually had to threaten credit card chargebacks on one of them so yea. 
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,957 Valuable Player
    Lot of negative Valve sentiment but let us not forget without them adopting VR early into their ecosystem, where would VR be today.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,454
    Project 2501
    With regards to the topic, this is something that's been on my mind since both the Rift-S and Reverb got announced with LCD's with RGB and the Index is rumored to be LCD as well. Why isn't anyone utilizing OLED with rgb like the PSVR? Is that something Sony owns a patent on or do they just have a unique ability to produce the screens? I am guessing cost is the biggest reason why everyone is going with LCD and just accepting the worse blacks as a tradeoff.
    Also, I get that fast switch has the benefit of less persistance but that has me wondering, is "fast switch" a tn panel or an IPS panel? I'm doubtful it's VA since people noticed the blacks being bad and VA usually has decent blacks. What was the panel in the Go? 


  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,454
    Project 2501
    edited April 19
    Lot of negative Valve sentiment but let us not forget without them adopting VR early into their ecosystem, where would VR be today.
    Well, Valve deserves a lot of it tbh. I like Steam and I appreciate the ingenuity of Valve as a company but I'm actually neutral about them. I'm primarily a PC gamer, been one since the early 90's and I'm pretty bitter about them resting on their laurels and collecting their billions in income from steam sales and doing very little to advance PC gaming for so long. Sony/consoles have closed the gap. Nvidia and Microsoft also share some of the blame for that.
    The next generation of consoles PS5 etc. may actually be the best platforms to game on and I've never felt that way since I've owned a PC in 1992. The graphical differences between the systems are just too small to matter much anymore, especially if they have Ray tracing on consoles. That will pretty much leave exclusive software as the main reason to buy a system and unique exclusive PC titles that aren't trash are getting fewer and fewer. I hope PCVR gets games worthy of utilizing the power of the PC but my faith in Valve providing that long term is low. At least they're a PC only company which is more than I can say about their main competitor right now but something has to give. 

    I haven't bought a console at release since the Sega Genesis (usually wait for the hype to cool down and grab one on the cheap lol) but I'm likely going to be grabbing one next year. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,889 Valuable Player
    edited April 19
    Lot of negative Valve sentiment but let us not forget without them adopting VR early into their ecosystem, where would VR be today.

    VR would be exactly where it was before Valve existed: Everywhere.

    Valve has done their fair share to support the VR implementation of the current times. Giving them less credit is just as folly as giving them too much credit.
    :)
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,415 Valuable Player
    Lot of negative Valve sentiment but let us not forget without them adopting VR early into their ecosystem, where would VR be today.

    Yes, an interesting observation.
    I think for me the importance of Vavle's investment early in VR and AR is down played - the 'VR [Valve] Room' system (image) proved instrumental in establishing the first phase of this most recent adoption of the tech; and the loaner machine to OculusVR established the foundation of the acquisition. It was good to see that element, previously denied, included in the recent book on the start of OculusVR. With the second phase of this adoption I wonder how much Valve Index will have a part to play?


    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,813
    Project 2501
    Everyone pretty much said all there is to say on this thread. Now it's like the calm before the storm.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited April 20
    youtube.com/watch?v=UpPY_XNpn08
    Seems like something duel lenses can pull off as well.

    Over all less overhead and sharper image. Not to say that is what the Valve is doing - just seems like something dual lenses can help with by lowering the the require warping effect and offering a large FOV. At the same time - lowering the require target render just means more supported devices. The other thing Xtal used could be easy to recreate as far as "using more screen space". If Valve did go higher resolution + LCD we could see even a sharper image than what Xtal offers - but they are also using better lenses than Valve using for sure assuming some of the cost of their headset is to include DSR(L?) lenses that can cost in the upper 400 range vs the plastic ones we use for more customer friendly cost.

    *Note this is assume rumors of the screens + the lens are correct. Base off what we do know - this might not be true so don't hold your breath on this information:) More or less we wont know more till May 1st or if someone leaks more information. 
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,540 Valuable Player
    kojack said:
    Zenbane said:
    My pinky finger gets the most use when:
    • Playing Guitar
    • Drinking Tea
    I don't understand how people can drink tea from such a tiny cup.

    My tea cup:

    Do our cups reflect our personalities I wonder?

    Why drink from a lesser god?

    WAAAGH!
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,177
    Wintermute
    Being a huge Lovecraft fan I soo envy that Cthulhu mug .. :open_mouth:
    Be good, die great !
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,177
    Wintermute
    SteamVR beta update:
    Index controllers now support full finger tracking in steamvr:







    Be good, die great !
  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,317 Valuable Player
    KlodsBrik said:
    SteamVR beta update:
    Index controllers now support full finger tracking in steamvr:

    Nice!
    I am so interested in the Index.
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case|
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