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Oculus Explains Why It Doesn’t Think the Time is Right for ‘Rift 2’ or ‘Rift Pro’

kevinw729
Honored Visionary

“VR is going to keep progressing. So, beyond and shadow of a doubt, at some point we will have a next generation where we add some sort of feature that breaks all of the old stuff and makes it either not work, or makes it seem obsolete. Our goal is not to do that right now. Our goal is to bring as many people into the ecosystem as possible. Bifurcating the ecosystem with a Rift and, say, a Rift 2 […] is not the right thing to do right now.”


https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-explains-timing-rift-2-rift-pro/?fbclid=IwAR37hW4dGpGnISlto-mubuiS2Z...

https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
179 REPLIES 179

Zenbane
MVP
MVP
Agreed @CrashFu - although I do think that this is a fundamental problem with PCVR overall. When it comes to the PC, there are no upper bounds. We could create a damn mainframe with PC's if we wanted, or string together multiple GPU's to create the ultimate Machine Learning A.I. algorithm, nor just mine the hell out of cryptocurrency.

The extremes are no different when it comes to VR. Someone like Wildt who is highly skilled and competitive (the dude is hard as hell to beat in Beat Saber and Audica omfg) has a legit point of view where: anyone taking the time to invest in an Oculus Ready PC + the Rift/Touch bundle... probably should take the extra initiative to get a 3rd or 4th sensor and set them up high to get the best tracking possible. But I understand his perspective because I too tend to have a competitive edge.

Yet I also agree that there is no way to expect the average consumer (e.g. non-PC enthusiast looking for extremes) to follow the same path by default. Especially considering that the average consumer lives in a small living space. That doesn't apply to me, and I have a 12x12 area just for VR, but many people live in homes that have all their large areas occupied for other practical reasons. Expecting those people to sacrifice living space just for VR isn't very realistic.

Both viewpoints are valid depending on the type of consumer. A company like Facebook and Oculus are selling products to both types of consumers; and therein lies the problem!

But as we found out coming out of GDC, Oculus is taking a break from targeting the enthusiast in order to market to the average general "masses." Which is fine when it comes to the hardware. The software coming out of this new strategy is fantastic (e.g. Stormland, Defector, Darth Vader trilogy); so there's nothing but positivity to be gained all around.

inovator
Consultant

CrashFu said:

I hope the folks talking about how their Constellation tracking is perfect  (now that they have four sensors bolted to the ceiling)  realize that they're running a very exceptional setup that would be impractical, if not impossible, for the average consumer to replicate.   Setting that up probably also cost you, what? almost $200 for the extra sensors, mounting equipment, extension cords and a good PCI-USB card?

Meanwhile, I'm guessing the average CV1 owner still just has what the system came with,  either because they didn't know they could add additional sensors, or they couldn't, or just didn't want to go to all the extra expense and hassle.

This is why I hate it when reviewers say things like, "Existing CV1 owners don't need to upgrade to Rift-S",  because their concept of an "existing CV1 owner" clearly consists of the rare user who's already gone to the trouble of building that perfect ceiling-mounted 4-sensor setup;   Compared to what CV1 had out of the box:  two sensors you have to just set on the corners of your computer desk or w/e..  Rift-S and Insight are obviously going to offer a major upgrade in tracking,  (not to mention visuals)

And the fact that you don't have to spend a couple hundred extra dollars and hours of installation work to achieve that tracking quality?  And can relocate it to a different room easily?  That's a big deal.



I agree: in addition there was a reviewer that owns a pimax . I believe it was 5k. He was reviewing the rift s. He said he wouldn't recommend rift owners do an upgrade with the small improvements including the small visual improvements.  I really wanted to throw many @$$@@ words at him. No fucken empathy. He was basing his recommendation on his Pima vs the rift, not the rift a vs rift s. Many reviewers said there was a very noticeable visual difference. 

CrashFu
Consultant
I don't think the sensor-mounting pros in the community should write Insight off as a "downgrade" anyways;  It's highly likely that Oculus will allow for hybrid tracking at some point (supplementing Insight with a sensor or two to cover blindspots).   In which case you could get rid of half your sensors and still end up with the best tracking there is.

P.S.   Apparently Facebook stock jumped up ~10% yesterday.  I wonder if Oculus has anything to do with that?
It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.

Anonymous
Not applicable

JD-UK said:






JD-UK said:

This thread is turning into what I was posting about earlier. Some people just don't get it at all. "All they have to do....." yes, I'm sure you are a much better VR headset designer and sales advisor than those at Oculus!

Not.

They have told you why they aren't doing that - but no, they should do exactly what you want - not what they feel is best (and will give them a return on their substantial investment) and what is best the market that they want to sell to. You guys know all about what everyone else wants and why they don't want this.

Fuck me, I don't think I've ever seen so much bollox.

It is a discussion forum about VR. People are just posting about what they like about the current headsets, and what they hope for in future headsets and also potential dissapointments of the way VR is progressing.  I think the riftS is going to be a fantastic device but i am concerned it physically wont work for me. Others are convinced it will... that is what discussion is about.
There is a lot of theory crafting and guesswork going on because few of us have access to the headsets yet.
the alternative is just to not post at all, but then that is not really the point of a discussion forum is it?

What really pisses me off is when people instead of discussing the post, attack the posters instead.



I must admit I thought this on your first Post JD-UK. I think you may have missed the whole point of a forum, to discuss things. 








Well I did come here this morning to make sure no-one was feeling offended or upset or whatever about my post. At the end of the day it's just a bit of banter 😉

A lot of my "discussion" posts are made mostly tongue-in-cheek anyway - I don't take things very seriously these days - and nor should you as far as my posts are concerned  🙂



Too late. The turd in a box is on it's way to you right now. Bastard.

Anonymous
Not applicable
 😄  😄 😄

RedRizla
Honored Visionary

inovator said:

I agree: in addition there was a reviewer that owns a pimax . I believe it was 5k. He was reviewing the rift s. He said he wouldn't recommend rift owners do an upgrade with the small improvements including the small visual improvements.  I really wanted to throw many @$$@@ words at him. No fucken empathy. He was basing his recommendation on his Pima vs the rift, not the rift a vs rift s. Many reviewers said there was a very noticeable visual difference. 




I saw a reviewer that said if you owned a CV1 you didn't need to update to a Rift -S. The funny thing is though he said he was upgrading because the Rift -S had better visuals and he wanted to see Oculus games in all their spender. I really had to laugh at that review.

KoBak07
Protege

Zenbane said:


KoBak07 said:
I totally see the Quest filling a void that is not serviced.

You're cherry-picking. My comment was about the PCVR market, not the stand-alone market. I explained to you several times that there is no single PCVR Company that has been able to sale in 10's of millions and 100's of millions. I've typed this several times to you in two different threads, and for some reason you just don't seem to get it.

Quest is not filling the PCVR void, Rift-S is filling that void.


The
Rift-S however is full of compromises

Rift-S is full of trade-offs, and is geared towards filling the mass market void that all PCVR competitors face.





I don't see what I would be cherry-picking. You said:

After 3 years of PCVR, the market has told the world that it needs something other than high-end hardware if someone wants to acquire 10's of millions of consumers. And now Oculus is filling that Void with Quest and Rift-S. So you are correct in your statement, but you are applying it completely wrong.

I was just agreeing that the Quest fills a void, while questioning that argument that the Rift S will be silver bullet that magically get the masses into VR, at least on the PC.




Zenbane said:



KoBak07 said:
At least we are still blessed with a free market economy, and it seems that others are trying a different route for this iteration cycle.


Yes, HTC and their near bankruptcy situation knows very well what the free market economy is all about. While competitors continue to fight for the dozens who treat 1.x upgrades as if they are 2.x upgrades, Facebook and Oculus have taken a momentary timeout from the hardware race to get those 10's of millions and 100's of millions. Once Facebook and Oculus obtain their self-sustaining VR business model, they will be back in the hardware race... and everyone will find something new to complain about!
😛


How long do you expect this momentary timeout to be? 1, 2, 3, 5 years?

inovator
Consultant

RedRizla said:


inovator said:

I agree: in addition there was a reviewer that owns a pimax . I believe it was 5k. He was reviewing the rift s. He said he wouldn't recommend rift owners do an upgrade with the small improvements including the small visual improvements.  I really wanted to throw many @$$@@ words at him. No fucken empathy. He was basing his recommendation on his Pima vs the rift, not the rift a vs rift s. Many reviewers said there was a very noticeable visual difference. 




I saw a reviewer that said if you owned a CV1 you didn't need to update to a Rift -S. The funny thing is though he said he was upgrading because the Rift -S had better visuals and he wanted to see Oculus games in all their spender. I really had to laugh at that review.


Exactly! I'm not a violent person but I have the urge to throw mud pies in their faces.

Anonymous
Not applicable
The momentary timeout will be three years and then we'll see the Tock being released in 2022.

kevinw729
Honored Visionary

snowdog said:

The momentary timeout will be three years and then we'll see the Tock being released in 2022.



When usually I see market observers refer to the "Tick-Tock Model" of development it is agreed as an iterative process that dose not have "timeouts" - that would be more a description of a break, and possible restart/refresh (possible abandonment of the original plan). 

The Tick-Tock Model (mainly in chip and consumer design) - sees the Tick representing a shrinkage in technological application, while the Tock represents a enhancement or investment in new innovation.

So (Tick) CV1, (Tock) Rift-S... long timeout... (Tick) CV2 - does not really work?

But, (Tick) GearVR, (Tock) CV1, (Tick) GO / Rift-S, (Tock) Quest... - dose seem to work.
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959