Valve Index - Specifications released.

RedRizla · April 26

Can't wait to see the specs and price of valve index when you factor in base stations, or does it come bundle with base stations and controllers?

nalex66 · April 26

They’re offering several options: headset only, headset and controllers, controllers only, base stations only, and full bundle (headset, controllers, and base stations). There are Steamdb entries for those combinations (but no known prices yet, obviously).

ParadoxAnomaly · April 26

I’m hoping the full bundle comes in at under £800. And Knuckles for less than £200.

Roll on May 1st.

KlodsBrik · April 26

I predict $1K for full bundle.
But honestly rahter wear this and pick onions as entertainment.

Image: https://i.redd.it/bk8tamq6dshz.jpg

nalex66 · April 26

I think they need to get the bundle under 600 unless they’re bringing some revolutionary new feature to market. If it’s just a Vive Pro equivalent, it’s not worth double the price of Rift S. I know there’s some crazy speculation floating around (super-high resolution, eye tracking, wireless, brain interface), but until details are announced, none of that means anything.

RedRizla · April 26

nalex66 said:

I think they need to get the bundle under 600 unless they’re bringing some revolutionary new feature to market. If it’s just a Vive Pro equivalent, it’s not worth double the price of Rift S. I know there’s some crazy speculation floating around (super-high resolution, eye tracking, wireless, brain interface), but until details are announced, none of that means anything.

Wireless brain what? What's all that about then? Anything over £800 with eye tracking and base stations is asking to much. without eye tracking, it should be no more then £650 with high res displays & base stations included.

RedRizla · April 26

KlodsBrik said:

I predict $1K for full bundle.
But honestly rahter wear this and pick onions as entertainment.

I suspect it won't be the Onions that makes people's eyes water when they find out the price of Valve index. I hope I'm wrong though.

nalex66 · April 26

Reddit is full of speculation that Index will include a brain control interface (controlling your game with brainwaves). Wireless is another feature that has been rumoured—in another thread here, @ParadoxAnomaly listed it off like it was an announced inclusion.

The eye tracking rumour is based on a patent that Valve has. If it was real and it was useful (i.e. tied into the also-rumoured foveated rendering feature in SteamVR), I might go up to $800, but if this is a standard HMD with improved optics and ergonomics, then $600 is my ceiling price.

RedRizla · April 26

@nalex66 - Are these rumours from well know sources or just from people like ParadoxAnomaly hoping things like this will be included?

Zenbane · April 26

RedRizla said:

@nalex66 - Are these rumours from well know sources or just from people like ParadoxAnomaly hoping things like this will be included?

Pretty sure they are from people like PA who made other predictions like: Knuckle Controllers and the Pimax Kickstarter will release on-time and take the world by storm before 2019.

ParadoxAnomaly · April 26

I’m basing Wireless inclusion direct from a Gabe Newell interview where he said wireless inclusion in future headsets.

Guess we only have to wait till next Wednesday to find out.

ParadoxAnomaly · April 26

Zenbane said:

Pretty sure they are from people like PA who made other predictions like: Knuckle Controllers and the Pimax Kickstarter will release on-time and take the world by storm before 2019.

We’re still waiting for GearVR to take the world by storm or is it GO or is it now Quest or Rift S?

No VR device has taken the world by storm yet. Maybe Apples AR Kit will make the break through.

I bet those with Pimax are happy with their headsets and don’t care others want to carry on with 95 degree GO screens for the next 3 years until that is the mythological CV2 comes to pass.

Have you decided yet @Zenbane what you’re going for? Rift S or Index?

snowdog · April 26

ParadoxAnomaly said:

I’m basing Wireless inclusion direct from a Gabe Newell interview where he said wireless inclusion in future headsets.

Guess we only have to wait till next Wednesday to find out.

They would be insane releasing a wireless headset. It would add another $200-300 to the purchase price.

kevinw729 · April 26

nalex66 said:

I think they need to get the bundle under 600 unless they’re bringing some revolutionary new feature to market. If it’s just a Vive Pro equivalent, it’s not worth double the price of Rift S. I know there’s some crazy speculation floating around (super-high resolution, eye tracking, wireless, brain interface), but until details are announced, none of that means anything.

This would have been Oculus' perspective, but Valve has taken a premium high-road approach to date, and looks to be continuing it with their VR platform. Bundled - yes, but not discounted.

While still under embargo what can be stated is the system will appeal to the high-end PC scene, with a focus on a community looking to move to the next level - the Index Controllers are unique and I am sure a number of OculusVR CV1/Rift-S owners will be demanding a port of these to their platform.

The big question regarding Valve is if they can support the community that wants to buy this hardware - the last thing we will need is that we swap one closed mouth manufacturer for another!

nalex66 · April 26

RedRizla said:

@nalex66 - Are these rumours from well know sources or just from people like ParadoxAnomaly hoping things like this will be included?

They're based on some patents Valve has, some old interviews where Gabe expressed interest in these sorts of technologies, and some past research that has been done.

Several years ago for instance, Valve was very interested in biometric feedback that they wanted to sense through the Steam controller (pulse rate, sweatiness, etc.) so they could use that to modify game parameters--jump scares when you least expect them, amping up or slowing down the action, that sort of thing. This was around the same time they were working on their "AI Director" in Left4Dead that was supposed to dynamically adjust the enemy spawn rates, and this would tie into that system. Of course, none of that ended up in the retail Steam controller.

Anyway, because we know nothing concrete about Index, people are scouring old interviews and articles looking for any clues about what fantastical tech might be included in the latest magical hardware from Valve, and are setting themselves up for massive disappointment. Hopefully Index does bring something new to the table, but it's not going to be the rainbow-vomiting, ice cream-shitting unicorn that some people are expecting.

Wildt · April 26

snowdog said:

ParadoxAnomaly said:

I’m basing Wireless inclusion direct from a Gabe Newell interview where he said wireless inclusion in future headsets.

Guess we only have to wait till next Wednesday to find out.

They would be insane releasing a wireless headset. It would add another $200-300 to the purchase price.

200 Tops, but I don't think it'll be wireless either.

It's pretty likely that we'll see a official wireless adapter though, and that's another checkbox ticked for me as a Rift+TPcast replacement.

nalex66 · April 26

kevinw729 said:

nalex66 said:

I think they need to get the bundle under 600 unless they’re bringing some revolutionary new feature to market. If it’s just a Vive Pro equivalent, it’s not worth double the price of Rift S. I know there’s some crazy speculation floating around (super-high resolution, eye tracking, wireless, brain interface), but until details are announced, none of that means anything.

This would have been Oculus' perspective, but Valve has taken a premium high-road approach to date, and looks to be continuing it with their VR platform. Bundled - yes, but not discounted.

Be that as it may, Oculus (and to a lesser extent, WMR) have set the baseline market expectation. If the feature-set and ecosystem of Rift S can be had for $400, then any new headset has to weather that comparison; what does Index offer above and beyond that, and how much more is that worth? better optics and ergonomics? $100 to $200 at most. Something truly next-gen (like functional eye-tracking and foveated rendering)? That gets them a little more headroom in the price. If they want to charge Vive Pro prices for an iterative upgrade (evolutionary but not revolutionary), I think they'll find that the appetite for their hardware will be modest at best. Some hardcore enthusiasts will cough up, but not enough to change the landscape in any significant way.

While still under embargo what can be stated is the system will appeal to the high-end PC scene, with a focus on a community looking to move to the next level - the Index Controllers are unique and I am sure a number of OculusVR CV1/Rift-S owners will be demanding a port of these to their platform.

The big question regarding Valve is if they can support the community that wants to buy this hardware - the last thing we will need is that we swap one closed mouth manufacturer for another!

I think Index controllers are a little over-hyped. For Vive users who've been stuck with those giant awkward wands for the past three years, sure, they're a big step up. For Rift users who've had the benefit of using the best-in-class Touch controllers, they don't really offer much that we don't already have.

snowdog · April 26

Yup, everything that @nalex66 said!

kevinw729 · April 26

nalex66 said:
.....
I think Index controllers are a little over-hyped. For Vive users who've been stuck with those giant awkward wands for the past three years, sure, they're a big step up. For Rift users who've had the benefit of using the best-in-class Touch controllers, they don't really offer much that we don't already have.

Some great food for thought @nalex66 - thanks for sharing.
I have personally placed the PC VR community into five groups:

- No0bs - those that have not owned any of the systems and come fresh
- WINex - those that had a WinMR system and are looking for their replacement
- VIVEex - those from the VIVE community looking for replacement
- CV1ex - those from the CV1 community looking for replacement
- Others - those from the PSVR, or Daydream, or other scenes (mobileVR)

Each one of these groups have different expectations of what their new investment will have to achieve to warrant their interest - and in some cases they will have high expectations. But fundamental is the content - for there has to be good games to keep them in the PC VR scene, or jump ship to the mobile/standalone alternative.

While I am sure many would agree you are right about the Touch controllers - there is an issue that many of the group above will be enticed by the novelty of and ergonomics of the Index way over four-year-old tech (especially as their hardware has been altered for the Rift-S / Quest).

Mradr · April 26

I wonder how Valve going to give the news. I know its May 1st - but it's not like its a F8 or OC event. Are they just going to have people leak the information then - then come out with a release date/preorder date?

bigmike20vt · April 26

kevinw729 said:

nalex66 said:
.....
I think Index controllers are a little over-hyped. For Vive users who've been stuck with those giant awkward wands for the past three years, sure, they're a big step up. For Rift users who've had the benefit of using the best-in-class Touch controllers, they don't really offer much that we don't already have.

Some great food for thought @nalex66 - thanks for sharing.
I have personally placed the PC VR community into five groups:

- No0bs - those that have not owned any of the systems and come fresh
- WINex - those that had a WinMR system and are looking for their replacement
- VIVEex - those from the VIVE community looking for replacement
- CV1ex - those from the CV1 community looking for replacement
- Others - those from the PSVR, or Daydream, or other scenes (mobileVR)

Each one of these groups have different expectations of what their new investment will have to achieve to warrant their interest - and in some cases they will have high expectations. But fundamental is the content - for there has to be good games to keep them in the PC VR scene, or jump ship to the mobile/standalone alternative.

While I am sure many would agree you are right about the Touch controllers - there is an issue that many of the group above will be enticed by the novelty of and ergonomics of the Index way over four-year-old tech (especially as their hardware has been altered for the Rift-S / Quest).

Well however you slice it if you wanna talk content oculus (I suspect due to Facebook cash) are king there. Just look at the content that oculus have helped fund. .... Where as valve have in the last 3 years released a handful of tech demos and have not even bothered to keep the vr apps working that I was playing on my DK2.
I know we have those 3 valve vr titles we keep getting waved under our noses but they are as long overdue as knuckles imo.
As a CV1 user who apparently won the panel lottery the riftS does not excite me much but stormland, defector and lone echo 2 ... They are possibly my most anticipated titles in a long long time

nalex66 · April 26

Mradr said:

I wonder how Valve going to give the news. I know its May 1st - but it's not like its a F8 or OC event. Are they just going to have people leak the information then - then come out with a release date/preorder date?

Probably an announcement and pre-order release on Steam, combined with an embargo lift for members of the press. I'm sure all the usual VR sites will have the story plastered on their front pages as soon as possible.

kevinw729 · April 26

bigmike20vt said:
....
Well however you slice it if you wanna talk content oculus (I suspect due to Facebook cash) are king there.
.....

Would not access (control) of SteamVR trump that?

bigmike20vt · April 26

kevinw729 said:

bigmike20vt said:
....
Well however you slice it if you wanna talk content oculus (I suspect due to Facebook cash) are king there.
.....
Would not access (control) of SteamVR trump that?

I suppose that depends if you champion quality or quantity (tho talking about quality on this crap forum software which has yet again mucked up the quote is kind of funny)

kevinw729 · April 26

bigmike20vt said:

I suppose that depends if you champion quality or quantity (tho talking about quality on this crap forum software which has yet again mucked up the quote is kind of funny)

Slightly off topic @bigmike20vt ; - but I wonder how long support of this forum has?
Was always under the impression when PM'ing Cyber that it was due to get a complete update, but I wonder if that has been abandoned following the changes?

bigmike20vt · April 26

kevinw729 said:

bigmike20vt said:

I suppose that depends if you champion quality or quantity (tho talking about quality on this crap forum software which has yet again mucked up the quote is kind of funny)

Slightly off topic @bigmike20vt ; - but I wonder how long support of this forum has?
Was always under the impression when PM'ing Cyber that it was due to get a complete update, but I wonder if that has been abandoned following the changes?

I hope not. This forum is THE forum for VR regardless of flavour of HMD for a lot of people (esp those who dislike Reddit and the like). It is where I point people who want to know more about VR. From a business point of view I would think that is an advantage oculus should nurture not squander .
Back in the day many non gamers used the term playing nintendo for videogames in general or using a hoover (vaccum cleaner). This is like free word of mouth advertising and oculus could do well to try to be like that with VR imo...... And getting the OCULUS site synonymous with talking vr must surely help?

snowdog · April 26

kevinw729 said:

bigmike20vt said:
....
Well however you slice it if you wanna talk content oculus (I suspect due to Facebook cash) are king there.
.....
Would not access (control) of SteamVR trump that?

What on earth makes you think that? Valve haven't curated their store properly since 2012. 98% of the games available on Steam (and that's being generous rather than hyperbolic) are crap.

And if you're talking about the SteamVR environment rather than the software Oculus are also ahead too with features such as Dash, Oculus Desktop and being able to import custom models into the Oculus Home environment.

snowdog · April 26

bigmike20vt said:

kevinw729 said:

bigmike20vt said:
....
Well however you slice it if you wanna talk content oculus (I suspect due to Facebook cash) are king there.
.....
Would not access (control) of SteamVR trump that?

I suppose that depends if you champion quality or quantity (tho talking about quality on this crap forum software which has yet again mucked up the quote is kind of funny)

There's nowt wrong with the forum software, you're just pants

snowdog · April 26

I'm glad that posted properly lmfao

Zenbane · April 26

ParadoxAnomaly said:

Zenbane said:

Pretty sure they are from people like PA who made other predictions like: Knuckle Controllers and the Pimax Kickstarter will release on-time and take the world by storm before 2019.

We’re still waiting for GearVR to take the world by storm or is it GO or is it now Quest or Rift S?

By "we" I think you just mean "you." As you sit there begrudgingly watching Oculus make VR moves. Carmack openly stated that GO was an experiment that turned out much better than expected. I don't think anyone ever said that it would "take the world by storm." That's hyperbolic language used by the same people that believe Valve is "drawing a line in the sand."

ParadoxAnomaly said:
I bet those with Pimax are happy with their headsets and don’t care others want to carry on with 95 degree GO screens for the next 3 years until that is the mythological CV2 comes to pass.

Right. Just like Vive owners were happy with their Wands yet literally spending years over-hyping Knuckles. Your ruse is over-played. You spend more time posting about "being happy" instead of actually being happy. No one who is as angry and bitter as your posts indicate is truly happy. That's not how happiness works. I've told you this before

Have you decided yet @Zenbane what you’re going for? Rift S or Index?

There's nothing to decide until they are actually released. Index is getting the same type of endorsement as Vive Pro and Pimax 8K, so it will probably suffer the same fate. Rift-S may turn out worthy but I'm waiting until it's released and I can try it before I buy it; which I should be able to do at the local Best Buy or Microsoft Store.

I am definitely getting Quest though, and I'll be happy with my lineup of: GO, Quest, Rift CV1 until something truly better comes along. Remember, unlike you I actually purchase products that I enjoy for reals. I don't purchase products just to go online and tell everyone that my product makes me feel like I'm better than everyone lol

Valve Index - Specifications released.

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