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Valve Index - Specifications released.

KlodsBrik
Expert Trustee
1,893 REPLIES 1,893

CrashFu
Consultant

pyroth309 said:

In other Valve news, VNN/Valve News Network seems pretty confident that the 3 Valve VR games are Half Life, Left 4 Dead, and a coop VR stealth game codenamed citadel. While that sounds all well and good, I won't care about them much if they're under 5 hours of gameplay.


If this rumor was true, and they turned out to be full games, that would be even worse for Valve!   Imagine how angry people would be if the first serious Valve games released in ages were available to less than 1% of their customers.  I mean sure, people look the other way when it's an ethics scandal or shady business practices, but finally releasing a new Half Life after all these years, and it has a $1000+ price barrier?

In fact, I'm not sure what would be worse for them:

The games are Index exclusive, excluding even MORE of their customers because most of them will never be able to afford one (or the PC to run it)  and Valve look like major tools after harshly criticizing Oculus for platform exclusives..

Or the games aren't Index exclusive, and the desire to play those games drives everyone who can't afford the Index to buy a Rift-S instead.    I'd love to see the Steam Hardware Survey after that.

:wink:
It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.

pyroth309
Visionary

CrashFu said:


pyroth309 said:

In other Valve news, VNN/Valve News Network seems pretty confident that the 3 Valve VR games are Half Life, Left 4 Dead, and a coop VR stealth game codenamed citadel. While that sounds all well and good, I won't care about them much if they're under 5 hours of gameplay.


If this rumor was true, and they turned out to be full games, that would be even worse for Valve!   Imagine how angry people would be if the first serious Valve games released in ages were available to less than 1% of their customers.  I mean sure, people look the other way when it's an ethics scandal or shady business practices, but finally releasing a new Half Life after all these years, and it has a $1000+ price barrier?

In fact, I'm not sure what would be worse for them:

The games are Index exclusive, excluding even MORE of their customers because most of them will never be able to afford one (or the PC to run it)  and Valve look like major tools after harshly criticizing Oculus for platform exclusives..

Or the games aren't Index exclusive, and the desire to play those games drives everyone who can't afford the Index to buy a Rift-S instead.    I'd love to see the Steam Hardware Survey after that.

:wink:


That's a lot of conclusions to draw from unfounded rumors. I haven't seen anywhere that the headset is going to cost 1000+. If you're including the computer with that, well you could make the same argument for Rift-S barrier being 1000+ then.
As far as making games for less than 1% of their customers, not sure that really applies either. The Index isn't out yet. These are launch titles...so these are being made for now for 100% of their future audience. What that ends up being remains to be seen since we don't even have specs yet. 
The Half-life game is going to be a side game or spinoff. It won't be half-life 3. I'd imagine the same thing will apply with Left4dead. Personally, I wish it was l4d3 and they let us play with flatscreeners. That's a game that needs teammates to be great. 

bigmike20vt
Visionary

pyroth309 said:

In other Valve news, VNN/Valve News Network seems pretty confident that the 3 Valve VR games are Half Life, Left 4 Dead, and a coop VR stealth game codenamed citadel. While that sounds all well and good, I won't care about them much if they're under 5 hours of gameplay.

I wonder what that means for the fan based HL2 VR mode

PS this fecking forum software.. once it decides my curser should be in the quote I can't get the damn thing out.





Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR 🙂

CrashFu
Consultant
I was including the cost of the computer, as the vast majority of Steam users do not own VR-capable PCs, and out of the ones that do, even fewer will meet the requirements for any higher-end system, as the Index is appearing to be.

You also seem to be forgetting that Valve is not a VR company.  They're a game-distributor and very rarely a game developer who are now dipping their toes into the VR industry, but PC gamers who do not have PC VR systems still make up ~99% of their customer-base (and likely always will)   Thus, any VR game Valve makes is being made for only ~1% of their current and future audience, and will be completely unavailable to the rest.  Also, given that they can't afford to neglect that other 99%, it's very unlikely that they'll make any further VR games after the mystery three. Something to keep in mind, before you go thinking that three whole games means they're suddenly going to get more involved in the industry and stay involved.

A game that can be played in both VR and non-VR mode is certainly possible, but such a thing usually warrants compromises in design, that result in it being a very underwhelming experience in at least one of those modes.  Going for a full-on asynchronous experience is about the only way to make such a thing work well.. allowing the two experiences to be uneven, so that one can be designed fully for flatscreen gaming and the other can be designed fully for VR.    But the non-VR gamers will still be upset that they're missing out on half of the game, especially if they have to pay full-price for it.
It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.

bigmike20vt
Visionary
I dunno valve releasing their own branded HMD raises the stakes a bit imo. Allowing HTC to release vive still distanced valve from the coal face a bit however releasing a HMD with their name plastered all over it does then imo create an expectation (quite reasonably) of software  support. Some games translate more easily from VR to flat screen than others but my totally unqualified view is that it IS possible most of the time just likes racing game can support 3 screens and wheels/ pedals but still also support a single screen and gamepad.
Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR 🙂

pyroth309
Visionary

CrashFu said:

I was including the cost of the computer, as the vast majority of Steam users do not own VR-capable PCs, and out of the ones that do, even fewer will meet the requirements for any higher-end system, as the Index is appearing to be.

You also seem to be forgetting that Valve is not a VR company.  They're a game-distributor and very rarely a game developer who are now dipping their toes into the VR industry, but PC gamers who do not have PC VR systems still make up ~99% of their customer-base (and likely always will)   Thus, any VR game Valve makes is being made for only ~1% of their current and future audience, and will be completely unavailable to the rest.  Also, given that they can't afford to neglect that other 99%, it's very unlikely that they'll make any further VR games after the mystery three. Something to keep in mind, before you go thinking that three whole games means they're suddenly going to get more involved in the industry and stay involved.

A game that can be played in both VR and non-VR mode is certainly possible, but such a thing usually warrants compromises in design, that result in it being a very underwhelming experience in at least one of those modes.  Going for a full-on asynchronous experience is about the only way to make such a thing work well.. allowing the two experiences to be uneven, so that one can be designed fully for flatscreen gaming and the other can be designed fully for VR.    But the non-VR gamers will still be upset that they're missing out on half of the game, especially if they have to pay full-price for it.


Right but we don't know exactly what will be required for a good experience with the Index yet. It might run great on a 1060 for all we know.
They aren't a VR company, but they're about to be one. This product has Valve on the side of it. As @bigmike20vt said, this changes the game. There's no confusion here like there was with the HTC. This is 100% a Valve product and not supporting it would be a hit to their reputation they can't afford to take at this point. 

I also have no expectations of what Valve will do post release. It's anyone's guess, especially considering their history of canceling projects but I think they're a big enough company to juggle it...if they want to. 

As far as gaming with Non-VR, I do agree it depends on the game but I had a blast playing Payday 2 VR with flatscreeners. It was tougher in VR for me but I kept up pretty well and it was a lot of fun.  In sims differences are pretty small, especially with these new higher res headsets. . 

Morgrum
Expert Trustee

   snowdog said:

They won't be able to make a VR headset big enough or powerful enough to scan my far superior brain. B)



Snow is that because the technology needed to amplify the brain waves enough to detect has not yet been invented?...….  😘

fauld2kit6pb.jpg

WAAAGH!

pyroth309
Visionary



pyroth309 said:

In other Valve news, VNN/Valve News Network seems pretty confident that the 3 Valve VR games are Half Life, Left 4 Dead, and a coop VR stealth game codenamed citadel. While that sounds all well and good, I won't care about them much if they're under 5 hours of gameplay.

I wonder what that means for the fan based HL2 VR mode

PS this fecking forum software.. once it decides my curser should be in the quote I can't get the damn thing out.







Easy fix, cut your response and delete the quote and press enter a few times in the box to make some blank lines. Click in the first line and then do quote again and you can move cursor out. Then just paste your comments back and then delete the extra lines. Yea forum sucks lol.  

Luciferous
Consultant
A lot of guess work there based on one sentence of unconfirmed rumours.

I am sure valve have given it a little thought prior to launch.

There are many games that have a good integration for VR and non VR. Even Super Hot can be played in non VR mode.

KlodsBrik
Expert Trustee
  true

Wildt said:

Imagine having to mail support saying that the brain sensor isn't working :lol:


If one would be able to call them at all .. You could end up having your suroundings look familiar without being able to make sense of anything:
 
 221zj6n37gpe.jpg
Be good, die great !