Valve Index - Specifications released. - Page 30 — Oculus
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Valve Index - Specifications released.

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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,089 Valuable Player
    I'm so glad that Valve have made it such an easy decision for me to buy a Rift -S. All the hype surrounding Valve index having features it doesn't have has just made it look really bad for the price. All it really has over Rift -S is a slight bump in resolution and a slightly bigger FOV. The audio for Rift -S will be great because I'm 100% certain there will be clip on headphones made for the Rift -S.

    Asking for £600 more for a slight bump in resolution and a slightly bigger FOV - No thanks Valve. I'll stick to having a really comfortable to wear headset in Rift -S and just wait for the clip on headphones. That's if Oculus haven't released them already at launch. 

    This is great news for Oculus because it means lots more sales for Oculus while Valve still continues to play catch up. Only this time around I think Valve index sales are going to take a massive hit at that price.


  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,335 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    I'm so glad that Valve have made it such an easy decision for me to buy a Rift -S. All the hype surrounding Valve index having features it doesn't have has just made it look really bad for the price. All it really has over Rift -S is a slight bump in resolution and a slightly bigger FOV. The audio for Rift -S will be great because I'm 100% certain there will be clip on headphones made for the Rift -S.

    You must have some good insider knowledge there then.
    Does the Rift S even have a Mic?
    Don

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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,485 Volunteer Moderator
    dburne said:
    RedRizla said:
    I'm so glad that Valve have made it such an easy decision for me to buy a Rift -S. All the hype surrounding Valve index having features it doesn't have has just made it look really bad for the price. All it really has over Rift -S is a slight bump in resolution and a slightly bigger FOV. The audio for Rift -S will be great because I'm 100% certain there will be clip on headphones made for the Rift -S.

    You must have some good insider knowledge there then.
    Does the Rift S even have a Mic?
    Of course it does. 
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  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,335 Valuable Player
    nalex66 said:
    dburne said:
    RedRizla said:
    I'm so glad that Valve have made it such an easy decision for me to buy a Rift -S. All the hype surrounding Valve index having features it doesn't have has just made it look really bad for the price. All it really has over Rift -S is a slight bump in resolution and a slightly bigger FOV. The audio for Rift -S will be great because I'm 100% certain there will be clip on headphones made for the Rift -S.

    You must have some good insider knowledge there then.
    Does the Rift S even have a Mic?
    Of course it does. 
    Good to know thanks.
    Kind of hard to tell from the "Features" page.
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case|
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,089 Valuable Player
    edited April 30
    dburne said:
    RedRizla said:
    I'm so glad that Valve have made it such an easy decision for me to buy a Rift -S. All the hype surrounding Valve index having features it doesn't have has just made it look really bad for the price. All it really has over Rift -S is a slight bump in resolution and a slightly bigger FOV. The audio for Rift -S will be great because I'm 100% certain there will be clip on headphones made for the Rift -S.

    You must have some good insider knowledge there then.
    Does the Rift S even have a Mic?

    I don't need to have good insider knowledge to work out what I have said is true. The information is already out there if you look for it. Oculus themselves have spoken about the headphones.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,483
    Project 2501
    RedRizla said:
    I'm so glad that Valve have made it such an easy decision for me to buy a Rift -S. All the hype surrounding Valve index having features it doesn't have has just made it look really bad for the price. All it really has over Rift -S is a slight bump in resolution and a slightly bigger FOV. The audio for Rift -S will be great because I'm 100% certain there will be clip on headphones made for the Rift -S.

    Asking for £600 more for a slight bump in resolution and a slightly bigger FOV - No thanks Valve. I'll stick to having a really comfortable to wear headset in Rift -S and just wait for the clip on headphones. That's if Oculus haven't released them already at launch. 

    This is great news for Oculus because it means lots more sales for Oculus while Valve still continues to play catch up. Only this time around I think Valve index sales are going to take a massive hit at that price.


    While I agree with the gist of your post and think Valve have pretty much relegated this thing to High end users and the Professional level with the pricing, 25+ degrees wider of actual FoV over the Rift will be quite noticeable. I notice the 10 degrees of the O+ (105 vs 95) and 10 degrees would be more along the lines of "Slightly bigger FoV".

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,089 Valuable Player
    edited April 30
    @pyroth309 - Yes, I agree with you on the Fov, but I don't agree they have relegated this to the highend user. It's just they have stuck a big price tag on it to make it look like it's a highend, but in actual fact it's not really highend. What I would call a highend headset today is something that has much higher resolution display's then Valve index and has eye tracking included. 

    Even without eye tracking, if it wants to be called a highend headset, then at-least give it HP Reverb resolution displays.

    Here's the good new though. I can now purchase a Rift -S for my VR games and purchase HP Reverb for my sims. All for roughly the same price it would cost me to buy the Valve index.


  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,483
    Project 2501
    edited April 30
    RedRizla said:
    @pyroth309 - Yes, I agree with you on the Fov, but I don't agree they have relegated this to the highend user. It's just they have stuck a big price tag on it to make it look like it's a highend, but in actual fact it's not really highend. What I would call a highend headset today is something that has much higher resolution display's then Valve index and has eye tracking included. 

    Even without eye tracking though, if it wants to be a highend headset, then at-least give it HP Reverb resolution displays. 


    It's high end. The closest headset comparable to it is the Vive Pro which is still also over 1k. You're getting:
    Higher Refresh Rate
    Higher FoV
    Higher Resolution
    Lowest pixel persistence on the market
    Much better controllers than the Vive Pro
    Two cameras for pass through
    Best in VR Audio
    Physical IPD Adjustment and eye relief knob
    A headset built for long term/multiple hour play sessions.

    It may not be what we want in a high end headset but it's definitely high end. IMO it's overpriced by at least 150 bucks. The Reverb headset has higher resolution and better panels but lower FoV. It also costs 599 and has only 2 camera WMR tracking with the same terrible WMR controllers.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,624 Valuable Player
    pyroth309 said:
    RedRizla said:
    I'm so glad that Valve have made it such an easy decision for me to buy a Rift -S. All the hype surrounding Valve index having features it doesn't have has just made it look really bad for the price. All it really has over Rift -S is a slight bump in resolution and a slightly bigger FOV. The audio for Rift -S will be great because I'm 100% certain there will be clip on headphones made for the Rift -S.

    Asking for £600 more for a slight bump in resolution and a slightly bigger FOV - No thanks Valve. I'll stick to having a really comfortable to wear headset in Rift -S and just wait for the clip on headphones. That's if Oculus haven't released them already at launch. 

    This is great news for Oculus because it means lots more sales for Oculus while Valve still continues to play catch up. Only this time around I think Valve index sales are going to take a massive hit at that price.


    While I agree with the gist of your post and think Valve have pretty much relegated this thing to High end users and the Professional level with the pricing, 25+ degrees wider of actual FoV over the Rift will be quite noticeable. I notice the 10 degrees of the O+ (105 vs 95) and 10 degrees would be more along the lines of "Slightly bigger FoV".


    It's actually 20° wider according to the blurb on their website. It's 20° wider than the Vive which has (as far as I'm aware) the same width as the Rift. The Vive does have a slightly higher vertical FOV though, but there isn't much in it.
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,483
    Project 2501
    snowdog said:
    pyroth309 said:
    RedRizla said:
    I'm so glad that Valve have made it such an easy decision for me to buy a Rift -S. All the hype surrounding Valve index having features it doesn't have has just made it look really bad for the price. All it really has over Rift -S is a slight bump in resolution and a slightly bigger FOV. The audio for Rift -S will be great because I'm 100% certain there will be clip on headphones made for the Rift -S.

    Asking for £600 more for a slight bump in resolution and a slightly bigger FOV - No thanks Valve. I'll stick to having a really comfortable to wear headset in Rift -S and just wait for the clip on headphones. That's if Oculus haven't released them already at launch. 

    This is great news for Oculus because it means lots more sales for Oculus while Valve still continues to play catch up. Only this time around I think Valve index sales are going to take a massive hit at that price.


    While I agree with the gist of your post and think Valve have pretty much relegated this thing to High end users and the Professional level with the pricing, 25+ degrees wider of actual FoV over the Rift will be quite noticeable. I notice the 10 degrees of the O+ (105 vs 95) and 10 degrees would be more along the lines of "Slightly bigger FoV".


    It's actually 20° wider according to the blurb on their website. It's 20° wider than the Vive which has (as far as I'm aware) the same width as the Rift. The Vive does have a slightly higher vertical FOV though, but there isn't much in it.
    I was talking actual not what's listed on the specs. Actual for the Vive for average user is around 100 I believe. I get 105 on my Odyssey+ and 95 on my Rift. So that'd put the Index around 120 actual I'm guessing since they said average user gets 20 degrees more.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,089 Valuable Player
    edited April 30
    @pyroth309 - Well if that's highend then so is Rift -S, but it's cheaper. Everyone has a different options on what makes a headset highend.

    Rift -S

    Easy to setup

    Inside out tracking using 5 camera's

    Higher resolution then CV1 (Looks much better then CV1 according to hands on reviews)

    Better comfort due to the halo

    Pass through

    Less screen door

    Next to no God Rays

    Better lenses

    Audio headphones to come (Not sure of quality yet, but I expect them to be good or why bother with them?)

    A headset built for long term/multiple hour play sessions.

    So there's my list which also makes Rift -S a hightend then. I wasn't going to say Rift -S is highend, but since you made a list of what is highend, I thought it only fair to give a list of Rift -S positives too.


     


  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,483
    Project 2501
    edited April 30
    RedRizla said:
    @pyroth309 - Well if that's highend then so is Rift -S, but it's cheaper. Everyone has a different options on what makes a headset highend.

    So there's my list which also makes Rift -S a hightend then. I wasn't going to say Rift -S is highend, but since you made a list of what is highend, I thought it only fair to give a list of Rift -S positives too.

     
    Well everyone has their own opinions. To me inside out isn't an improvement over constellation or light house except in convenience. I've stated multiple times I dislike halos because of how loose they are when you shake your head. And are you certain the Rift has better lenses? I omitted them from the comparison until I know for certain. Either way I digress. I don't want to pick apart the Rift-S. If that's the product that you feel is right for you great.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,089 Valuable Player
    edited April 30
    pyroth309 said:
    RedRizla said:
    @pyroth309 - Well if that's highend then so is Rift -S, but it's cheaper. Everyone has a different options on what makes a headset highend.

    So there's my list which also makes Rift -S a hightend then. I wasn't going to say Rift -S is highend, but since you made a list of what is highend, I thought it only fair to give a list of Rift -S positives too.

     
    Well everyone has their own opinions. To me inside out isn't an improvement over constellation or light house except in convenience. I've stated multiple times I dislike halos because of how loose they are when you shake your head. And are you certain the Rift has better lenses? I omitted them from the comparison until I know for certain. Either way I digress. I don't want to pick apart the Rift-S. If that's the product that you feel is right for you great.

    Yes opinions differ greatly. You only have to look at these forums to see that some people think inside out tracking is the way forward. I to prefer inside out tracking because it allows me to easily take my setup into another room without fuss. I have also had problems with outside in tracking when it comes to picking things up from the floor in VR sometimes, but that wasn't a big deal and may have required some more faffing about with my sensors. 

    I don't recall shaking my head much in VR if I'm honest, but I did see some hands on reviews mention this about the halo. They also said it wasn't really a problem though because they don't usually shake their heads in VR games and were only doing this for testing purposes more then anything. I much prefer the halo rather then have something pushed up against my face, but again that's only mine and some other people's opinion.

    Regarding the lenses there are plenty of hands on reviews that say everything looks clear in the Rift -S with next to no godrays visible. I can only surmise that this is due to the lenses being good. 

    At the end of the day I see Oculus Rift -S selling more headsets then CV1 did and this is what Oculus is looking to do. I don't see Valve index selling well as a bundle for £1000. I'm happy to pay £399 for the improvements I will get with Rift -S and I suspect many other people will be happy too. Having less screen door and next to no godrays sounds good enough to me, but the added comfort of the headset will be a bonus too. It's great to know I won't have to mess with sensors either and can just take my PC and Rift -S into another room and set it up in no time. 
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,959 Valuable Player
    edited April 30

    Yep 20 to 25 degree FOV is a big difference. Plus tested said the hz makes a big difference also. There we have oculus even reducing that to bring in even more entry level users. Having a VR headset since 2013 I am well passed that.

    it’s a lot money but then again I don’t want to buy a headset for 400 that’s just better than than the one I have.

    And no fov improvement, which has been my main complaint since dk2. I want to increase presence not decrease it. 

    I can’t put up with that for 3 years.

    reviews are pretty positive so far and once valve officially debut it, hopefully get some more video reviews.











  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,089 Valuable Player
    @Luciferous - The Rift -S has had positive reviews too.
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,959 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    @Luciferous - The Rift -S has had positive reviews too.
    Yep great entry level headset appealing to masses. I have no doubt the rift s will be a solid product.

    not arguing that, appreciate convenience and price point are bigger considerations for some. I am Sure it will sell much better than the index.

    Not also arguing about index price either prob about 200 too much easy.

    however the knuckles give me future options. As they are independent of headset, if another headset launches in years time, I can still use knuckles. 

    We now now might see more headset manufacturers adopting knuckles and concentrating more on the headsets.





  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,755 Valuable Player
    edited April 30
    Remember Rift-S doesn't just appeal to entry level or the masses... it appeals to people who want the most fps's in demanding VR games like sims (and Fallout 4) whilst offering increased clarity.

    That's been my priority from the start. Its a big part of what makes it usable. Wider FOV gives more immersion and that's a priority for some but not really mine.

    Same deal with inside-out tracking, to me that makes it more usable for the software I like and the swapping of rooms that I'd like to have done more with the Rift.

    I think that calling one high end and one entry level is way too simple.
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  • Rob_In_PhoenixRob_In_Phoenix Posts: 294
    Nexus 6
    The new Valve headset is actually more inline with what I wanted in the next Rift version.  I understand the market that Facebook is going after, so I get the strategy for their product roadmap. 
    I really like the wider FOV but I doubt my graphics card could drive the Valve very well, so I'd probably have to get a new graphics card as well.
    With the $1000 price tag and the cost of a new graphics card = ughh.  Plus nearly all my games are on the Oculus store.
    If I could wave a magic wand I'd have the specs of the Valve headset but compatible with Touch and Constellation.  I'm all out of magic wands so I'll stay put on my Rift, which is a dandy place to be anyway.
    Maybe it's just me, but I don't give a rip about inside out tracking as a headset feature.  Constellation has been awesome, how would inside out tracking improve upon this?  Easier setup I suppose, but I never had a problem setting up the sensors and I never do 6DOF outside my computer room.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,089 Valuable Player

    however the knuckles give me future options. As they are independent of headset, if another headset launches in years time, I can still use knuckles. 

    We now now might see more headset manufacturers adopting knuckles and concentrating more on the headsets.






    Well I hope that devs will consider catering for Knuckles for your sake. Oculus has some great games and Valve has none so far. A lot of Steam VR games are mostly bad, so I hope you find devs who will consider the knuckles when making their games.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,946 Valuable Player
    dburne said:
    Does the Rift S even have a Mic?

    Wow. LOL.
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,483
    Project 2501


    RedRizla said:
    @Luciferous - The Rift -S has had positive reviews too.
    Yep great entry level headset appealing to masses. I have no doubt the rift s will be a solid product.

    not arguing that, appreciate convenience and price point are bigger considerations for some. I am Sure it will sell much better than the index.

    Not also arguing about index price either prob about 200 too much easy.

    however the knuckles give me future options. As they are independent of headset, if another headset launches in years time, I can still use knuckles. 

    We now now might see more headset manufacturers adopting knuckles and concentrating more on the headsets.
    Yea, I originally predicted 899 when the specs leaked out and it's only 100 bucks above that even though some of the specs I was anticipating didn't make it. 200 too much sounds about right to me based on the specs and the build quality.

    So it's overpriced and may be obsolete as soon as next year. Ah well, I'm still going to get one f it. Only live once. I look forward to flipping off all the kids.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,946 Valuable Player
    edited April 30
    however the knuckles give me future options. As they are independent of headset, if another headset launches in years time, I can still use knuckles. 

    We now now might see more headset manufacturers adopting knuckles and concentrating more on the headsets.

    What future options in the VR Software do you see taking place with Knuckles? Be specific if you can.

    Do you think AAA Development Studios are going to suddenly be like, "Holy sheit, our pinky finger now has full tracking presence! Stop the presses! Cancel all existing projects!! Refactor all code!!!"
    ???
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,811 Valuable Player
    Some thoughts after chewing on it, possibly a bit contradictory.
    1) if oculus had released a package with those specs at those prices I am convinced there would have been an uproar due to huge price but small increase in performance esp from the oculus haters . It confuses why they (not necessarily this forum here) are claiming to be ok with index specs and price and considering getting one.
    2) given how much cheaper touch is, as well as cameras for inside out tracking it does at the same time show me that oculus *could* have (maybe still could) made a rift X bundle with inside out tracking, oculus touch controls and similar hmd specs to index for £599 - £649 (going on the index hmd only price and the oculus touch price)
    The specs are a nice modest upgrade but the price is blooming nuts.
    (Vive pro must surely be sunk now though)
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  • WildtWildt Posts: 1,875 Valuable Player
    The lack of a wireless option is the only thing keeping me from ordering it.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,755 Valuable Player
    edited May 1

    I agree with that bigmike. I just think Oculus has the view that that a higher spec headset probably wouldn't contribute to VR much at the moment other than to satisfy enthusiast desires.

    And that's where I still have Pimax enthusiast recommendations ringing in my ears and I can't help wonder what experience they're having (ignoring any QS or price issues), what they're using their headsets for and what frame-rates they're getting with what supersampling settings etc. Are they having a high-end experience?

    Here we're looking at a much more realistic offering with the Index, 20 deg increase in FOV is exactly the right move I think. But even this has trade-offs. 20 deg means 44% greater demand on GPU if PPD improvement is offered to go with that FOV increase or 20% less PPD than if the same screens were used with 100 deg.

    I just wish Nvidia had made larger jumps in performance per price than it has over the last 3 years, so I could join the ranks of those being much less concerned over performance issues with titles I like to play.

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  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 5,855 Volunteer Moderator
    Not really a shock imo just not gonna take out a second mortgage to get one though ;)
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

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