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Rift S - Please read before you buy - Tracking problems with realistic FPS sims & Archery

SkScotchegg
Expert Trustee
EDIT: NEW UPDATE PLEASE READ - Read this first before continuing - Oculus has now released a new beta update called 1.39 which fixes many of these issues - I have eddied my main post of this thread so newcomers to Rift S can read this good news on how to fix their issues before continuing...You have to go into your Oculus software, click settings, click the Beta TAB at the top, click the button next to "Public Test Channel" which will automatically download Oculus software 1.39 and restart Oculus. Once you have installed this software update you will see that tracking has been massively improved for FPS games when holding two handed rifles and aiming down scopes. I have tested this on Onward today and played for over 3 hours and now the game is very playable. Before this update I couldn't play any FPS with two handed weapons, now they all seem to work fine!! Well done Oculus devs and thanks for the software update!  🙂


Original post below:
Hey everyone, I got my Rift S on launch day and was initially really impressed. But since then I have tried a wider verity of games and have since discovered a glaring issue with Rift S which is the tracking.

Before Rift S launched I was worried about the sound, that was my only concern, and yeah the sound isn't great but when I used my own headphones that solved the problem so when I was playing Robo Recall, Beat Saber, and Audica etc it all looked and performed fantastic and I soon forgot about the sound as I was enjoying the games so much.

But last night I bought Contractors on Steam which appears to be a great multiplayer FPS with great graphics but unfortunately is completely unplayable on RIft S! There's simply no other way to say it.

FPS games like Onward, Contractors, Pavlov and Archery games like In Death/Sacralith just aren't going to work with Rift S. You can't aim down the sites, soon as you hold your right hand up to your face in the normal position to look down the sites of a rifle or to look down an arrow the tracking freezes in place and stops working and makes it impossible to aim.

So after playing with Rift CV1 for the past 2.5 years this is completely dreadful. And btw the first year or so with CV1 I only had 2 front sensors which worked perfectly, the only reason I bought a 3rd sensor in the 2nd year was for pavlov so I could pick up weapons from the floor, so since then I used 3 camera setup in my dinning room and the Rift tracking was 100% perfect and never lost tracking for me.

If your planning on only playing Arcade games like Robo Recall, Superhot, Beat Saber and Audica, you will be fine, go ahead and buy Rift S and enjoy the amazing clarity of the optics and increased resolution.

But if you want to play FPS games or Archery games, your basically buying a product that does not work, your wasting your money and would be better buying a 2nd hand Rift CV1 off ebay/amazon.

Of course we heard in the past that Oculus could enable the old CV1 room sensors through software, I desperately hope they do this, otherwise for people like me that enjoy FPS/Archery games as well as the usual Arcade games, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, because I like Rift S, but what am I suppose to do? Use Rift CV1 for half my games library??

I'm quite shocked and hugely disappointed by this, I think maybe what other people were saying about Lenovo was right, I don't think Oculus/Facebook should have partnered with them because if this is the outcome then, well, no thanks.

I feel sorry for everyone who has pre-ordered expecting to play Onward/Contractors/Pavlov/In Death/
Sacralith etc and expecting this to be good. I think we need to all sign a petition to Oculus to enable the old CV1 room sensors for proper tracking otherwise they will have a lot of refunds going in and also this is very bad for people new to VR. In fact I'd go as far as to say that all FPS and Archery games should be taken off Oculus store for Rift S owners until this is resolved because otherwise what's the point? Everyone buying those games will have to refund I suppose.

Sorry for the rant guys, but I felt compelled to inform the community of this. People need to know how bad this tracking really is.

And also before Rift S was released people were saying the future is inside/out tracking. Well I'm sorry guys, but you couldn't of been more wrong. Inside/out tracking only works for Arcade games, sim racing games, elite dangerous and maybe Quest if Quest mainly uses Arcade games too? I'll leave that part for Quest users to comment on.

I own Rift CV 1, Oculus GO and now Rift S, was planning on buying Quest too but I'll hold off on that for a while until I read more reviews. 
UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
356 REPLIES 356

RedRizla
Honored Visionary
@JeremyC85 - Are you using a gun stock? I find having just the controllers further out in front of me is not only tiring, but that my aim also goes to shite because I cannot rest my elbow on my side where it is comfy. The scope also moves further forward when my controllers have to be used further out in front of me, which makes it impossible to look down the scope properly.

I've gone back to using CV1 for these games now.

Edit @vannagirl - Well I hope so because it can't come soon enough if Oculus decide to do this. I've hated having to go back to using my Rift CV1, just so that I can play my First Person Shooters both comfortable and properly. I don't want to keep switching headsets to suit certain games.

ShocksVR
Superstar
Verify you're running the latest version of Windows 10 (at least 1809).  This seems to be fixing some tracking/setup issues for people. 
i7-7700k, Zotac RTX 3080 AMP Holo (10G), QuestPro, Quest 2
Previous: Oculus GO, Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale, Oculus Rift S

RedRizla
Honored Visionary
My Windows 10 is fully updated, but no Windows 10 update is going to fix the issues I've described tbh.

kevinw729
Honored Visionary


seems to have got a little off tracking here ?



No just a bad looser  😄
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

SkScotchegg
Expert Trustee


RedRizla said:
I'm not sure how software is going to fix this when there is no camera underneath the headset that tracks your controllers. I'm hoping wrong and they they can fix it. I just hope they enable the external camera's though, which will definitely fix it.



That's my thought's too, I don't really know enough about the software to fully understand what they can do to improve it, my logic tells me if the cameras can't see the controllers then it isn't going to work.


vannagirl said:

Am guessing there will be external camera support now sooner then expected 



I really hope so too because even though we can use our original CV1 for now to play these games it sure would be nice to play In Death/Contractors/Pavlov etc using the Rift S new LCD screen and optics which I think looks and feels absolutely great!


RedRizla said:

I've gone back to using CV1 for these games now.

Edit @vannagirl - Well I hope so because it can't come soon enough if Oculus decide to do this. I've hated having to go back to using my Rift CV1, just so that I can play my First Person Shooters both comfortable and properly. I don't want to keep switching headsets to suit certain games.



I've done the same mate, I use CV1 for all the games that don't work on RIft S and then Rift S for Beat Saber and Audica mainly.



Verify you're running the latest version of Windows 10 (at least 1809).  This seems to be fixing some tracking/setup issues for people. 



Yeah I'm also on latest windows 10 update and latest nvidia drivers too.

EDIT: I just had a thought, I really hope they fix the tracking for us before Stormland & Asgard's Wrath arrive as I definitely want to take advantage of those two games on my Rift S to see it in all of it's splendid glory!  🙂
UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!

JeremyC85
Heroic Explorer

RedRizla said:

@JeremyC85 - Are you using a gun stock? I find having just the controllers further out in front of me is not only tiring, but that my aim also goes to shite because I cannot rest my elbow on my side where it is comfy. The scope also moves further forward when my controllers have to be used further out in front of me, which makes it impossible to look down the scope properly.

I've gone back to using CV1 for these games now.

Edit @vannagirl - Well I hope so because it can't come soon enough if Oculus decide to do this. I've hated having to go back to using my Rift CV1, just so that I can play my First Person Shooters both comfortable and properly. I don't want to keep switching headsets to suit certain games.


 no gun stock here.. just the touch controllers 

CrashFu
Consultant

RedRizla said:






Morgrum said:

Well hopefully this  an be fixed with a software update.

No software update is going to be able to fix this major flaw with the Rift S.  The only way to fix it is to allow the Rift sensors to be used with the Rift S.


That's just not true. The hardware takes data. Software interprets the data. Software can be improved to interpret the data better. Read what Mr Carmack said on this. 
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1124334345689366528



How long does it actually take them to realise this and fix it? They have had an ample amount of time to work on fixing this. Oculus Quest has being in development for years using the same type of tracking.

The dead spot is below the headset and that's where it needs constant tracking. That's where your trigger finger is for your rifle when resting your elbow comfortable at your side to give you a steady aim. If you move your hand further forward it's uncomfortable, but the scope on the rifle also moves forward making it hard to look down the scope.

I'm not sure how software is going to fix this when there is no camera underneath the headset that tracks your controllers. I'm hoping wrong and they they can fix it. I just hope they enable the external camera's though, which will definitely fix it.


You'll notice that there are hardly any complaints about the Quest's tracking (compared to Rift-S), even though it uses the same Insight software.. with an even smaller tracking area.  And with how popular the Quest has been, we'd definitely be hearing about it on the forums, if there were issues.

That should be a pretty big clue that it's probably not the Rift-S hardware that is causing most of the reported issues, or the Insight system itself.  Likely, most of the tracking problems people have experienced are due to conflicts with various PC systems, which Oculus could not anticipate because... well, they can only test on a finite number of different PC configurations just before release, and the use-conditions of consumers are highly unpredictable.  I wonder how many people are trying to run Rift-S on obsolete versions of windows, for example?  Or haven't kept their drivers and windows-updates current?

As for the tracking area underneath the headset.. the bottom-corner cameras are sloped in such a way that they should still see the controllers unless they're directly beneath your chin.  If you're hip-firing a two-handed gun, for example, the camera on that side should probably be able to see the controller, most of the time.   I was playing Duck Season earlier today, and was able to fire the shotgun accurately that way.  (When I tried to hold the gun directly in front of my face, such that my rear hand obscured the forward one.. that didn't work as well.)

I have not, however, tried any scoped two-handed guns since getting the Rift-S...  I've always found them to be incredibly awkward to use in VR anyways, since you don't actually have a Stock to help keep things stable and in relative place   (unless you buy one of those rigs to attach the controllers to, but I'm not that much of a gun enthusiast  :wink: )

Also, I think there are smart ways to use game design to compensate for poorly-tracked / occluded areas in regards to two-handed weapon use.  For example.. when using a scoped two-handed weapon, the game could basically ignore the position of the poorly-tracked hand altogether and rely exclusively on the position and orientation of the most-visible hand,  instead of trying to pivot the gun unnaturally between both hand positions.  Specifically, when holding the gun in front of your face, it would rely on the closer hand (IE the one holding the trigger).  When hip-firing, it would use the position of the forward hand.    And when pulling back a bow-string, the game could assume that once the arrow-hand leaves the tracking area, it is at a specific, optimal position relative to the player's view,  keeping it steady while they aim with the bow-hand.
It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.

Hicks613
Heroic Explorer
It doesn't matter.  Contractors, Pavlov, Onward, Wardust, Standout, H3VR.  Physical or Virtual stock.

A gunstock actually helps me get around this problem.  This is for 2 handed weapons.  I'm right handed but I refer to it as my "rear arm or hand" and my left (forward) arm/hand is supporting the barrel.

1. My natural stance, my natural point of aim, requires that I keep my REAR ELBOW is bent <90 degrees my FORWARD arm is about 90 degrees.  This is how I use my M4 in Contractors or MK18 in Onward.  My CV1 Touch controller used to be really close to my face.  I get a real nice and large sight picture this way.

2. My new stance with the Rift S requires that I push BOTH controllers unaturally far away on the Protube stock.  My rear arm is now always >90 degrees - only slightly bent.  My foreward arm is ALMOST dead straight. 

This prevents me from getting comfortable.  Holy crap is this completely unnatural and annoying, BUT tracking issues are avoided.

With just controllers, you need to get into the habit of keeping your forward hand straight out, then bring your rear hand to where the virtual rifle's new position is.  Eventually you will drift back into a more natural stance and tracking will break.  Then you need to straighten out again.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE OPTICAL SCOPES LIKE THE ACOG OR SIMILAR.  This is IMPOSSIBLE.  You cannot get the scope close enough to your eye.  It will look like the size of a 5c piece to keep tracking and completely useless.

Insight can die a horrible death.

RedRizla
Honored Visionary
@CrashFu - The first person shooters people are talking about aren't even on Oculus Quest yet. That's probably why nobody's talking about it on the Oculus Quest. I'm just here to share the problems I'm having and judging by some other comments in this thread there are other people having the same problems as the OP.

I've played FPS long enough with Rift CV1 to say playing them with Rift S has drastically reduced my enjoyment. I've even gone back to using the Rift CV1 to play these games because I feel it's that's bad.    

There's no point trying to fix it by just having the outstretched controller tracked and the back hand ignored like I think you were trying to suggest. I honestly can't imagine how bad that would feel, but it's good to know people are trying to think of ways around this problem. 

I've given credit where credit is due for Rift S, like comfort, displays, less godrays, less screen door ...etc. But the tracking in First Person Shooters is just awful because of what I and some people are describing. I'm speaking from my own personal experience though and some people might not mind putting up with it. I just know I can put up with it and it's the last thing I'll say on this matter. 

BloodyShadow
Protege
Well, after thinking about the pro's and con's, I've decided to return my Rift S. I loved everything about it, it was more comfortable, better image quality, easier to set up and use, everything was great... but in the end the poor tracking really killed it for me. My favorite games are the shooters and archery games, which are unplayable for me on the 'S' (in the sense that they aren't comfortable and don't work nearly as well as the CV1 Rift). 

If it all gets fixed with patches and updates I might consider purchasing it again later, but it doesn't feel like a finished product to me as it stands. I'm super disappointed, but still love my CV1 Rift so not too much harm done. 

To those of you suggesting these problems are brought on by user hardware (i.e. my computer setup) this is incredibly unlikely. I have a custom gaming desktop I built myself (with high end parts), and an area 51m laptop that I use for VR, always without issue. The issue is that when the touch controllers get too close to the headset they 'blind' the sensors at this distance. My support ticket contact also experienced these issues: "I experienced a similar issue with a sniper game I was playing with on the Rift-S. So I understand what you are experiencing for sure." - copy past from my ticket. 

They know this is an issue. I'm sure they'll do what they can to fix it, I just don't want to wait with what is currently a useless piece of hardware collecting dust. If anyone is considering purchasing I would hold off until an update is given.