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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,743 Valuable Player
    Such a shame when you think of the Oculus that showed us the half dome. 

    We'll see the Half Dome being the CV2 in 2022 for $599. A three year lifespan for their PC VR headsets and hardware filtering up and down between their different ranges of headsets.

    I think Rubin saying (reading between the lines) that the CV2/Half Dome would have cost $2000 was a bit of hyperbole to make a point but I'm 100% certain that the original plan was to release the CV2 this year instead of the Rift S and it would have been $999 or so. I've said from when the Half Dome was first shown that we were unlikely to see the CV2 having the varifocal feature and I still think that's going to be the case. We'll see the CV2 being released in 2022 for $599 (because that's the sweet spot for enthusiasts) and then the Rift S in 2025 for $399. They will ALWAYS need an enthusiast PC VR headset because we're happy to pay more than $399 for new and improved tech...but $999 is too much of an ask from the vast majority of us unless we see value in that outlay. Valve will find out that once the Index has been out for a few months when their sales start to dry up.

    $599 is the real sweet spot for a high end headset, we've seen that with sales of both the Rift and Vive when they went down to that price. The Index will be the same, but if they hadn't been a greedy bunch of greedy price gouging wankers and sold the thing for a couple of hundred dollars/pounds cheaper they wouldn't be able to make the things fast enough. I would have ordered one as soon as preorders started if they launched at £719.

    One concern I have with the Index is Valve dropping the thing altogether when sales start to cool off. They don't have a great track record when it comes to hardware manufacturing and sales. I do have concerns about Valve not choosing retail partners the same way that both Oculus and HTC have done so it's going to have a disadvantage in terms of sales compared to other headsets just because of that. You can't nip out to Best Buy or Currys or Argos and pick one up, you're forced to go through Steam to buy the thing. You're going to have a good few sales of the thing for the first few months, the launch and the launch window, but after that things will slowly start to grind to a halt.

    And if developers decide to support the new controllers for anything apart from waggling fingers (which I personally doubt, they'll just use the same in game use of the pointing fingers and thumbs up for anything single player) how long will they do this for if sales start to dry up?
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,408 Valuable Player
    There will be no Half Dome.
    Unless and until such a time as Oculus deems PC-VR a viable market for them again. Nothing they are saying currently even hints at that.

    The only reason we got a Rift S was all the public outcry especially after other PC-VR announcements from other companies, and them making an agreement with Lenovo to try and pacify the Oculus PC-VR enthusiasts. 
    Which partnering with Lenovo may turn out to be not such a smart move.

    Anyway back to topic as we were asked to keep to - I am looking forward to hearing reports from folks once they get their Indexes and how it performs and looks especially in flight sims.


    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case|
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,005 Valuable Player
    edited June 14
    So @Techy11 where next, Index, Pimax, Vive Eye thingy or Varjo? Your options are diminishing in the higher end?

    @snowdog Maybe by 2022 it would have reached a cross the board quality in most Headsets that is good enough not to notice discomfort, tracking, FOV, resolution, clarity, screen door, god rays etc. After all, I don't own a 4K monitor, things just need to get to an acceptable level that does not distract you from the games.

    I am more confident Valve will support PC VR than Oculus will in the future. It is clear from all recent evidence (even how little Rubin dedicated to PC VR in that last article)  that PC VR is no longer their main focus.


  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,500 Valuable Player
    Well I have seen on this forum the CV2 moved from 2019, 2020, 2021 and now 2022 for $599!

    I look forward to seeing what the consumer HMD market of 2022 would look like - that would be a market that has had Index, Cosmos, Samsung, HP, Varjo, Pimax and others for over two-years! Some how the Half-Dome may not be as cutting edge at that point as you imagine - especially considering what would be waiting in the wings from lessons learned during that period. Also many of the dev team that originated the Half-Dome demonstrator have left  - so would this be a Lenovo partnered CV2 in 2022?

    I try and deal with the cards we are dealt now! rather than wild guesses on hardware that may or may not be in a direction that the current executive team of the company feels is important to achieving their mass adoption goal. Sorry, but this is IMHO . 
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,743 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    Well I have seen on this forum the CV2 moved from 2019, 2020, 2021 and now 2022 for $599!

    I look forward to seeing what the consumer HMD market of 2022 would look like - that would be a market that has had Index, Cosmos, Samsung, HP, Varjo, Pimax and others for over two-years! Some how the Half-Dome may not be as cutting edge at that point as you imagine - especially considering what would be waiting in the wings from lessons learned during that period. Also many of the dev team that originated the Half-Dome demonstrator have left  - so would this be a Lenovo partnered CV2 in 2022?

    I try and deal with the cards we are dealt now! rather than wild guesses on hardware that may or may not be in a direction that the current executive team of the company feels is important to achieving their mass adoption goal. Sorry, but this is IMHO . 

    We'll see the 4K headset that Abrash has mentioned for the last couple of years at the last two Oculus Connect keynotes. 4K displays, 140 degree FOV and all in the same form factor that that Rift and Rift S has. I don't think we'll see the varifocal feature though because it'll be too expensive for a $599 (CV2) and $399 (CV2 S) headset.

    BOE have had headset sized 4K LCD displays available for the last 2 years so the technology is there right now, and they also do curved displays too which would fit in with the patent that Oculus had granted a few years ago as well.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,500 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    ......
    We'll see the 4K headset that Abrash has mentioned for the last couple of years at the last two Oculus Connect keynotes. 4K displays, 140 degree FOV and all in the same form factor that that Rift and Rift S has. I don't think we'll see the varifocal feature though because it'll be too expensive for a $599 (CV2) and $399 (CV2 S) headset.

    BOE have had headset sized 4K LCD displays available for the last 2 years so the technology is there right now, and they also do curved displays too which would fit in with the patent that Oculus had granted a few years ago as well.

    Agreed - you are not saying anything we have not discussed before, and I appreciate that. 

    Fundamentally, the consumer sector is learning what we in Enterprise have been saying - the market for high-end PC based headsets with the latest bells and whistles is achievable but at high prices - in the interview, he says in the $2,000 range, I say higher. And though OculusVR is now realising they should focus on mobileVR to achieve their new goal - the rest of us that need to be "wow VR" rather than "just good enough", are looking at the next developments - such as Varjo and the others. That Valve wants to play in the high-end PC VR scene is great, and the Index looks sold as a Vive 2.0. If OculusVR will want to play some time down the road with a $599 CV2 system for 2022... I am so not sure. This may have to be a partnership thing for the company, from this point on. 

    I envisage a Quest2 in 2020 < 2021 that will have many features that current high end will have but in a package that mainstream will come to recognise - leaving the innovation of high-end to Enterprise, as with the amazing VRgineers systems, and the new prototype from StarLight.  


    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,574 Valuable Player
    Half Dome was nice - no doubt Oculus could take the PCVR throne if they really wanted to - but I guess Index currently is the next best thing...

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,574 Valuable Player
    What I want is this one, including the grenade launcher  <3, and I know Oculus can make it:


    But they only want to sell me this one, sigh  :'(  


    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,574 Valuable Player
    Although the evidence is circumstantial, maybe the plot just thickened... Hmmmm.... HLVR?

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,121
    Wintermute
    HLVR is coming! I can feel it in my VR blood!  

    Index + HLVR = win/win :)

    Thank you Valve and thank you Boneworks! haha
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,574 Valuable Player
    HLVR is coming! I can feel it in my VR blood!  

    Index + HLVR = win/win :)

    Thank you Valve and thank you Boneworks! haha
    Lol, with Valve I'll believe anything - when I see it  :D 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,743 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    Although the evidence is circumstantial, maybe the plot just thickened... Hmmmm.... HLVR?


    I'm not even going to bother watching the video, they've been claiming that Half Life 3 is on the way for YEARS lol  :D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,500 Valuable Player
    edited June 14
    Techy111 said:
    That's what Half life means ...you wait half your life for it  :D



    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,574 Valuable Player
    edited June 15
    Exciting new Index stuff! (I put some text in bold  B) )

    Index brightness, blackpoint and gamut measurements

    Gamut measurements show coverage of :
    • 99.4% sRGB

    • 87.7% DCI-P3

    • 66% Rec. 2020

    for reference, Vive is:

    • 100% sRGB

    • 97.4% DCI-P3

    • 75.63% Rec. 2020

    Luminance in nits:

    • Index: 95

    • Vive Pro: 143 *

    • Vive: 214

    Black level in nits:

    • Index: 0.153

    • Vive: 0.000 🡐 with true blacks turned off via black smear compensation (default).*

    • Vive: 0 🡐 with true blacks turned on, black smear compensation disabled via running the headset in secondary display mode.


    So much for OLED blacks not being that much deeper anyways due to black smear compensation. Turns out that even with the compensation, where dark-greyness of black is visible to the eye, OLED headset blacks are still several orders of magnitude darker, so much so that xrite i1Display Pro can't display enough digits to distinguish it from true black.


    In practice, having both Index and Vive Pro at my disposal, I personally prefer playing HellBlade with Vive Pro, due to how dark that game is. I wouldn't say blacks are dealbreakingly bad, but they're something to be aware of.


    Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/c0nziw/index_brightness_blackpoint_and_gamut_measurements/


    In short even with the dreaded OLED mura (SPUD) the OLED panels win big time over Index LCD when it comes to true blacks. And it seems that OLED also wins in other categories. Note especially luminance in nits, where Vive is more than 100 % higher than Index. Still Index may have the advantage of more subpixels, especially compared to the CV1. 

    Kinda supports my decision of trying to have both CV1 and Index connected to the same rig - in case I need to surround myself with some real darkness (or the Odyssey+ may be great too, it's also OLED).


    Seems that no matter how you try to replace the CV1 you end up having to compare serious losses vs. gains. 

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,151 Volunteer Moderator
    kevinw729 said:
    Techy111 said:
    That's what Half life means ...you wait half your life for it  :D




    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,549 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    Exciting new Index stuff! (I put some text in bold  B) )

    Index brightness, blackpoint and gamut measurements

    Gamut measurements show coverage of :
    • 99.4% sRGB

    • 87.7% DCI-P3

    • 66% Rec. 2020

    for reference, Vive is:

    • 100% sRGB

    • 97.4% DCI-P3

    • 75.63% Rec. 2020

    Luminance in nits:

    • Index: 95

    • Vive Pro: 143 *

    • Vive: 214

    Black level in nits:

    • Index: 0.153

    • Vive: 0.000 🡐 with true blacks turned off via black smear compensation (default).*

    • Vive: 0 🡐 with true blacks turned on, black smear compensation disabled via running the headset in secondary display mode.


    So much for OLED blacks not being that much deeper anyways due to black smear compensation. Turns out that even with the compensation, where dark-greyness of black is visible to the eye, OLED headset blacks are still several orders of magnitude darker, so much so that xrite i1Display Pro can't display enough digits to distinguish it from true black.


    In practice, having both Index and Vive Pro at my disposal, I personally prefer playing HellBlade with Vive Pro, due to how dark that game is. I wouldn't say blacks are dealbreakingly bad, but they're something to be aware of.


    Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/c0nziw/index_brightness_blackpoint_and_gamut_measurements/


    In short even with the dreaded OLED mura (SPUD) the OLED panels win big time over Index LCD when it comes to true blacks. And it seems that OLED also wins in other categories. Note especially luminance in nits, where Vive is more than 100 % higher than Index. Still Index may have the advantage of more subpixels, especially compared to the CV1. 

    Kinda supports my decision of trying to have both CV1 and Index connected to the same rig - in case I need to surround myself with some real darkness (or the Odyssey+ may be great too, it's also OLED).


    Seems that no matter how you try to replace the CV1 you end up having to compare serious losses vs. gains. 

    Yea that's not surprising to me. It's been covered with the Rift-S discussions but I haven't seen any LCD panel yet that's on par with my Odyssey+/OLED blacks or colors so I never thought it would be. My hope is that with some calibration and settings adjustment that it's good enough to not be distracting like the Pimax 5k which is more gray than black but I won't know until I see it for myself.

    If you're only buying a headset for the black levels then it's going to come up short for sure. I might keep my O+ around for a couple of games and get it working with Knuckles.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,743 Valuable Player
    Glad I went for the Rift S instead of the Index now, I didn't get any nits with mine as far as I can tell. Or maybe they can't live in my hair because my hair is so short?

    Bloody gross anyway, they shouldn't be allowed to sell something you wear on your head that's bloody infested. :o
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,574 Valuable Player
    Kinda cool-looking charging stands  :open_mouth:




    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3339091/comments

    BTW, I'm not that worried about black levels on the Index - I'm more interested in the 120 and 144 Hz - and Boneworks is starting to look really cool  B)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,574 Valuable Player
    3 years ago:



    Seems like an updated version of the game may launch June 28 together with Index:

    "In a reply to users on the game’s discussion board, Bailey writes, “I’ve been operating under an NDA for a while, but will be able to make a full product announcement soon. In brief, the full expansion, ch3 and ch4 will ship within weeks. I remain the sole developer on the project, and again apologize for the lack of communication on progress.”

    What NDA Bailey might be under isn’t entirely clear, but it seems likely that he’s been developing the game for the Valve Index headset, especially considering his pedigree as a former Valve employee who worked on the Half-Life series.

    If Bailey is hoping to launch the Vanishing Realms expansion in time for Index, that would put a potential release date around June 28th, the same day that the headset is expected to begin shipping to the first customers.

    From a product standpoint, it isn’t clear yet how Bailey plans to roll out the Vanishing Realms expansion. It could come as an update to the base game, wherein he might choose to move the game out of Early Access and bump the price up from its current $20. Alternatively the expansion could be released as optional, paid DLC."

    Source: https://www.roadtovr.com/vanishing-realms-expansion-release-date-chapter-3-ch-4/

    Not sure I'll be holding my breath, but I love surprises  :)

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,549 Valuable Player
    Whoaa. I asked the question awhile back when I saw that it was listed as Index supported game if it was still alive... Guess I got my answer. It's still one of my favorite VR games. 
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,574 Valuable Player
    edited June 15
    pyroth309 said:
    Whoaa. I asked the question awhile back when I saw that it was listed as Index supported game if it was still alive... Guess I got my answer. It's still one of my favorite VR games. 
    Yes, seems like reviews are amazing on Steam - but it looks like a Quest game  :#   :D Sorry, I mean it looks like a 144 Hz game!  o:) B)

    "Seriously one of the best VR experiences I have had to date. Combat and collision mechanics are fantastic. Love the variation of weapons and feel of the environment. Can't recommend this game enough."

    "One of the best hack and slash games available for VR (or really, one of the best VR experiences available, probably). The combat is responsive and intuitive, as is the item pickup and inventory system (unlike many VR games that hide that stuff behind a bunch of clunky menus displayed in world space)."

    "One of the original VR greats. If you're a big fan of fantasy adventure games: You will want this game if you have a VR headset, I guarantee."









    Then again, a 144 Hz game can't be bad... Hmmmm.... ;) Note that the 3 reviews from Steam were the 3 latest reviews, one from a few days ago, I wasn't cherry-picking great reviews.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,743 Valuable Player
    Have they sorted out smooth turning and free locomotion with that game? I bought it years ago but hated teleporting everywhere.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,574 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Have they sorted out smooth turning and free locomotion with that game? I bought it years ago but hated teleporting everywhere.
    Just bought it, it's a 582MB download, I'll let you know soon  o:) I was thinking better buy it now, because in 2 weeks it may no longer be $20  B)
    Also bought Assetto Corsa, but's that kinda boring - I love good RPGs much more than racing sims. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,574 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Have they sorted out smooth turning and free locomotion with that game? I bought it years ago but hated teleporting everywhere.
    There's full locomotion, but no smooth turning, teleport is still there and needed in some locations. Controls are ok, but could be much improved. It does feel like a Quest game, very low polys and low-res textures, and I got solid 90 fps using ss 2.0 (SteamVR = 200% res). The game design isn't bad though - also knowing that only one person made this game. Mage's Tale did impress me much more though, and Karnage Chronicles also feels way ahead of this game. That said the sword fighting mechanics did impress me - felt much better than Shadow Legend, maybe Vanishing Realms has some of the best VR sword fighting mechanics - the bow did feel mediocre compared to In Death and Sacralith. 
    Unless the game is massively updated I doubt this game will be any kind of launch title for the Index. I've only played the game for like 30 minutes and just got the first bow - need to play it some more to get a solid impression. I think I understand why Pyroth309 likes the game, it does feel like a game made with true love and deep passion - despite the developer's limited resources. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,549 Valuable Player
    edited June 15
    RuneSR2 said:
    snowdog said:
    Have they sorted out smooth turning and free locomotion with that game? I bought it years ago but hated teleporting everywhere.
    There's full locomotion, but no smooth turning, teleport is still there and needed in some locations. Controls are ok, but could be much improved. It does feel like a Quest game, very low polys and low-res textures, and I got solid 90 fps using ss 2.0 (SteamVR = 200% res). The game design isn't bad though - also knowing that only one person made this game. Mage's Tale did impress me much more though, and Karnage Chronicles also feels way ahead of this game. That said the sword fighting mechanics did impress me - felt much better than Shadow Legend, maybe Vanishing Realms has some of the best VR sword fighting mechanics - the bow did feel mediocre compared to In Death and Sacralith. 
    Unless the game is massively updated I doubt this game will be any kind of launch title for the Index. I've only played the game for like 30 minutes and just got the first bow - need to play it some more to get a solid impression. I think I understand why Pyroth309 likes the game, it does feel like a game made with true love and deep passion - despite the developer's limited resources. 
    You're also comparing a 3 year old game to games that were inspired by it. :smile: Quest was still a pipe dream when Vanishing Realms came out. I love Zelda and it is in that vein. 

    I'm glad to see it getting some updates as when I first played it, it left quite a mark on me and it has been neglected for too long. This update should have happened 2 years ago but better late than never. It was the first VR RPG around that wasn't junk. Karnage Chronicles and such came later. 
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,743 Valuable Player
    Yup, I really enjoyed what little of it I played but the teleportation ruined it for me. I'll give it another go now there's free locomotion.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,005 Valuable Player
    edited June 16
    vanishing Realms was good at the time as no other RPG was out. Skyrim VR launching killed it dead though.

    Not sure if just me but this one made me feel a bit pukey after playing for a while?
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,574 Valuable Player
    edited June 16
    pyroth309 said:

    You're also comparing a 3 year old game to games that were inspired by it. :smile: Quest was still a pipe dream when Vanishing Realms came out. I love Zelda and it is in that vein. 
    Fully agree - it's like going back in time to see some of the earliest VR games. Still - today - the game is getting a lot of great reviews - that's why I made a quick comparison with other similar games. 
    Actually I was enjoying Skyrim a lot the other day - I don't have much time to invest in the game - so it's more a walking simulator to me, lol. But even unmodded Skyrim isn't that bad - with everything maxed out, the view distance is quite awesome and it really feels like a living a breathing world. 
    I'm thinking that Skyrim - and maybe an updated version of Vanishing Realms in 144 Hz (especially if the game opens up later, which screenshots indicate, current locations are quite small and restricted) - could be something to look forward to on the Index.
    Also Vanishing Realms may be fun for kids - at least the first battles aren't hard - and you don't get lost like in Skyrim. I'm planning to let my 7-year-old try Vanishing Realms later - he does like Karnage Chronicles, but it may be too scary and too hard for young kids.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,574 Valuable Player
    edited June 16
    Something big also just happened for The Talos Principle - a massive 6GB patch. And no one knows why - the devs say nothing - but many speculate it has something to do with the Index:

    https://steamcommunity.com/app/552440/discussions/0/1637536330462252657/

    But 6GB for Index hand tracking makes no sense in my mind. I did try the patched game yesterday. After the patch the SteamVR version no longer could be started from Oculus Home, but when first starting SteamVR and then launching the game everything worked fine. I did notice that the game ran worse than usually, and checking OTT ss was 2.24, while it normally was 2.0 for my setup. So check that res hasn't suddenly increased if you notice any slowdown after the patch. Reducing the res in-game slightly I was back to ss 2.0, so no problem. I didn't notice anything new after patching the game - but I haven't played it in months. 

    But it did result in a small discovery - that you can see difference between ss 2.0 and 2.5, lol. I found a gate like this:



    Then I moved back until the grid was very hard/impossible to see - and then I tried to increase ss. Going from ss 2.0 to 2.25 or even 2.5 the grid/gate suddenly reappeared or you could see it more clearly (make out individual bars again). The performance impact made it not worthwhile, but I think the visual impact was way greater than increasing anisotrophic texture filtering from 8 to 16  B) Also it easily demonstrates the greatly increased 3D depth (how far you can see clearly) when increasing ss.  
    In this game ss 2.0 works great on my rig, but I have to get down to ss 1.4 to get constant 90 fps (running everything on Ultra :blush: ). The SteamVR version gives you the ability to use Oculus specific rendering for optimal performance (thus buying the game in the Oculus Store may provide limited performance benefits in this game). Textures and graphics are truly awesome in this game - but I also just played some Vanishing Realms, so the contrast was truly immense, lol. 
    Talos still is hard on the eyes, seems to lack some antialiasing even when using ss 2.0 - or higher. This is one game I'm really looking forward to try on the Index - more res and subpixels may be god-sent in this game. 






    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
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