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Enable CV1 sensors for Rift S tracking boost. (30-40% of my games not viable on Oculus hardware.)
KnightMason
Posts: 22 Brain Burst
The Problem:
Every game that has gunplay, archery, or throwing mechanics, "advanced" grabbing mechanics, or otherwise use any form of movement outside of swinging a simple sword, are now a nearly unplayable experience do to the Rift S tracking. That is up to 30 to 40% of the content in the Oculus Store my library.
And many of those games are the most played content. (See example list below.)
I'm finding every FPS shooter, every archery game, every grenade throw, every backward stab with a sword, every dual wielding mage build holding back a horde of enemies both in front and behind me, to be a complete garbage experience now in the Rift S.
And there is no available solution since the CV1 is not available.
All of those developers are going to suffer for it. And the percentage the Oculus store gets will too.
The Solution:
Sell the CV1 sensors and have it work with the Rift S as a "boost" in tracking. You get to sell more hardware. You make more money from those of us who need it for games that require it.
You created the problem yet you don't make money off it.
We should not have to beg for a solution that you already have said can be done in other posts.
Also, maybe notify customers on the store page for those games that it best used with a sensor for the best experience. (As you already do for how intense an experience is and for the play area requirement.)
Examples:
The examples listed below are just a few games available in the Oculus store with no warning about it not working properly on ANY available Oculus hardware since the CV1 was taken down.
Every game that has gunplay, archery, or throwing mechanics, "advanced" grabbing mechanics, or otherwise use any form of movement outside of swinging a simple sword, are now a nearly unplayable experience do to the Rift S tracking. That is up to 30 to 40% of the content in the Oculus Store my library.
And many of those games are the most played content. (See example list below.)
I'm finding every FPS shooter, every archery game, every grenade throw, every backward stab with a sword, every dual wielding mage build holding back a horde of enemies both in front and behind me, to be a complete garbage experience now in the Rift S.
And there is no available solution since the CV1 is not available.
All of those developers are going to suffer for it. And the percentage the Oculus store gets will too.
The Solution:
Sell the CV1 sensors and have it work with the Rift S as a "boost" in tracking. You get to sell more hardware. You make more money from those of us who need it for games that require it.
You created the problem yet you don't make money off it.
We should not have to beg for a solution that you already have said can be done in other posts.
Also, maybe notify customers on the store page for those games that it best used with a sensor for the best experience. (As you already do for how intense an experience is and for the play area requirement.)
Examples:
The examples listed below are just a few games available in the Oculus store with no warning about it not working properly on ANY available Oculus hardware since the CV1 was taken down.
- Onward: Can't scope, can't hold two handed guns and aim, can't throw grenades properly.
- Zero Caliber: Can't scope guns or hold two handed rifles. Period.
- Echo Arena: Can't rotate hand behind you for movement, hold, and dodging mechanics.
- Lone Echo: Can't grab behind you for basic movement and hold positions.
- ANY game with archery & slingshot mechanics: Too many to list. You now have to draw your arrow with "hipfire" and hope for the best.
7
Comments
Basically the firmware can only fix so much. Cameras can't see through hands or arms. And locking hands to a position, like to the face in archery for example, would still take away from fine control that applies to aiming.
When a single cheap sensor can fix it.
The DK2 used one sensor for tracking and it worked great.
Edit: I agree it's unfortunate. But the company is about making money. They will only fix it be more incentivised to fix it, if they can make money off the problem. We already have to buy or make our own audio solution to match that of the CV1. For $399 I'm not complaining about that.
I just want it to work for games I already paid for. Because everything else about the Rift S is fantastic. (Except the minor bugs they are working on now like controllers not turning off and flashes of static.)
Hardware: Threadripper 1950x, MSI Gaming Trio 2080TI, Asrock X399 Taich
Headsets: Wrap 1200VR, DK1, DK2, CV1, Rift-S, GearVR, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Reverb G2
Tracking fidelity is the #1 most important feature to me in the VR experience, where I never even considered Rift-S due to the reduction in (tracking) quality. I've followed the tracking debacle quite closely, from early testers and influencers, etc. who were effectively towing the line because they harbor the "big picture" want of VR being widely adopted and successful, with Oculus' new mantra of trade-offs.
The shift to inside out to satiate the lowest common denominator has bummed and soured me to Oculus, completely.
A user in the forum thread "Rift S - Please read before you buy - Tracking problems with realistic FPS sims & Archery" tweeted both Nate Mitchell and John Carmack asking for them to enable external tracking to support Rift-S/ resolve poor tracking etc.
Carmack replied, "Integrating external camera tracking for Rift S controllers would be a *LOT* of work, and it wouldn't function as well as you expect, because the ring orientation is biased towards the headset instead of the Touch orientation. Better to hope for inside out tracking improvements."
To me, it reads like external ain't gonna happen.
Tracking fidelity is the #1 most important feature to me in the VR experience, where I never even considered Rift-S due to the reduction in (tracking) quality. I've followed the tracking debacle quite closely, from early testers and influencers, etc. who were effectively towing the line because they harbor the "big picture" want of VR being widely adopted and successful, with Oculus' new mantra of trade-offs.
The shift to inside out to satiate the lowest common denominator has bummed and soured me to Oculus, completely.
A user in the thread https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/75817/rift-s-please-read-before-you-buy-tracking-problems-with-realistic-fps-sims-archery/p1 tweeted both Nate Mitchell and John Carmack asking for them to enable external tracking to support Rift-S/ resolve poor tracking etc.
Carmack replied, "Integrating external camera tracking for Rift S controllers would be a *LOT* of work, and it wouldn't function as well as you expect, because the ring orientation is biased towards the headset instead of the Touch orientation. Better to hope for inside out tracking improvements."
To me, it reads like external ain't gonna happen.
A huge group of us are very worried about the future of PC VR in doing this. Sure enough there are GPU limitations coming very soon and AMD will soon blow away Intel again and crash the market of Nvidia card manufacturing. We really have not had new tech in VR. This should not be so hard to get right by now with a headset plus body tracking all without room sensors nor needing any visible light (use IR instead) and finally become WIRELESS!!! Wifi 6 is already here ffs
They should still sell CV1, why they stopped selling CV1 is beyond me, especially when they say Rift S is not an upgrade for CV1 owners.
And secondly they should patch the software to allow us to use Constellation tracking. - They first said "We could enable this later" and then I messed CEO of Oculus on Twitter and they basically said "It would be a lot of hard work to enable Constellation tracking in the software".
It really annoys me that they don't listen to us - and what kind of a response is that? Do any of us really care how much work it takes for them to patch Constellation tracking into Rift S software? It's their problem that they created.
Quite annoying.
And I agree with OP. We all spent all this money buying over 100 games in our VR library and then you buy Rift S and try to play all those games again and 90% of the games have problems with the tracking and most are just unplayable.
Like you can play Arizona Sunshine as long as you only use 1 handed weapons. You can play In Death as long as you don't mind not been able to shoot properly with a bow and can't aim correctly...this is just ridiculous.
Oculus better make this upto us with CV2!!
CV2 needs to have increased FOV, increased resolution, built in audio and Constellation tracking...And then all is forgiven! But until that moment - They will feel my Wrath! Or perhaps not...since they don't read the forums and don't seem to care what we say lol.
EDIT: To OP I did make a thread about this situation weeks ago where we discussed all these issues:
https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/75817/rift-s-please-read-before-you-buy-tracking-problems-with-realistic-fps-sims-archery#latest
And some of the rifle handling issues have been hotfixed by the game developers. So now we have gimmicky snap positions for weapons. Talk about immersion breaking.
I'm sure as less archery and FPS games are put out there for Oculus, given recent situations going on, then the percentage of games in the store that function correctly will rise. They could remove all games that don't work well and say 100% of all their content now functions. Seems to be their approach in curating other developers lately. Percentages are all relative in that respect.
Not to add to the issues but we also can't rack slides on pistols due to the inverted rings being in the way. Not without causing real damage to the touch controllers.
And I'm not mentioning anything outside the oculus store like Skyrim VR or Fallout. Because that isn't in their wheelhouse in the first place.
I have since paid out of pocket to get my CV1 back. If they fix the Rift S maybe I'll buy another. But nearly a month later and watching their other drama unfold, it doesn't look like that will happen unfortunately.
And that's a shame. I've been a fan of their HMD since the beginning.
Hardware: Threadripper 1950x, MSI Gaming Trio 2080TI, Asrock X399 Taich
Headsets: Wrap 1200VR, DK1, DK2, CV1, Rift-S, GearVR, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Reverb G2
They got it wrong by not using any illumination from the headset for IR. This is all it needs and not bad Room Lighting nor daylight.
Perhaps they will be able to improve some in software updates, hard to say.
EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
You could sell it for $50 to $100 off and cut your loss that way.
And if you are not worried about the warranty anymore then I would do something creative first before you go smashing it. Like a video tear down if others need to take it apart to fix something after the warranty expires.
Or some crazy mods that nobody else would dare try yet.
Milk it for views first then smash it for more later.
My unit also had white flashes every minute or two since day one. So it was technically faulty from the start. But I was hoping it was software related. Their updates never fixed it for me though. And I was within the refund window. Had I not been I would have tried the above myself for fun.
Still, after all this, I would probably buy another Rift S if they fixed all these problems and get their PR together.
Because, for the price, it's still the best screen experiences out there for driving, flight, space sims. And other detailed content.
I paid more for my Wacom pen tablet. My monitor was about the same price. And even my TV in my living room costs more with 7 surround sound speakers I had to run wires to. All so I could "feel the action". That was closer to $1500.
It's still crazy to me that a VR set is this cheap now.
I have 2 more weeks to return my Rift S. I'm going for it. THey can have my used RIft S back.
I cant' play FPS shooters, can't scope. Can't play virtual pool. Can't play Lone Echo properly (as good as it looks on those long overdue panels)
I'm investing slowly in SteamVR gear. Something I don't want to do. I don't want to leave Oculus Home.
But there are no options. No CV2 and no alternatives. There is only the RIft S, with its 90 degree FOV and 80 field of tracking.
If you are inclined to do the smash (which if done well with a large amount of views and re-shares surfacing to UploadVR, etc.) would be an FU to Oculus execs (kinda tickles me) who green lighted the changes to appeal to commoners, however @KnightMasonhas a good point, do a tear-down, etc. first, assuming you have experience with electronics - things like phone repair, etc.
If I were in your shoes, I would remove one or more of the hmd cameras and relocate to outside the hmd - you'd need to solder a suitable extension. The cameras are likely attached via a ribbon cable, so you'd need to either decouple the ribbon assembly from board and extend from board to ribbon coupler or maybe build something (an extension etc.) working from pins should they be accessible. It would be ugly, the extension would be dangling from the face of HMD and of course, you wouldn't be able to play anything but you'd certainly be able to test external tracking, in a manner of speaking.
I'm sure it would be awful overall, as Carmack has stated, "because the ring orientation is biased towards the headset instead of the Touch orientation" however, you would at least get some data from it - you could have a camera say 1m from HMD directly to the right of you (facing play area) and try the controller directly to face of HMD to see if tracks correctly. You can try using the watch in Arizona sunshine, try pulling a bow back properly in In Death, try scoping a rifle. Run a series of tests, and you'll have a hell of a "more widely viewed and subscribed" video over a simple smash clip, which any kid can do and often just sends a message of frustration or arrogance.
I've often thought if an after-market external tracked solution were presented by Oculus, it would utilise the same camera(s) in the Rift-S HMD, on stands (or sold with wall mounts) similar to constellation. Set of 2 cameras with extension for $159 or something. They'd have to write the software to support, and more importantly, own that the move to inside-out was more than a trade-off in tracking fidelity for ease of use, that it's somewhere between a solid step backward and complete failure in current iteration.
Hardware: Threadripper 1950x, MSI Gaming Trio 2080TI, Asrock X399 Taich
Headsets: Wrap 1200VR, DK1, DK2, CV1, Rift-S, GearVR, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Reverb G2