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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

Techy111
MVP
MVP
As per the title, please respect the users who post here and keep it on topic, any nonsense and......grrr
A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

2,973 REPLIES 2,973

kojack
MVP
MVP

RedRizla said:


RuneSR2 said:


RedRizla said:

Have any of you with the index noticed if the higher refresh helps with nausea? I still over look this when I'm looking for a headset even though some games at 80Hz or 90 Hz want to make me puke. So does the 120Hz make a difference to feeling like you want to throw up in some games?


120 fps/hz feel much more real and natural - more calm in a way. I wouldn't be surprised if 120 hz reduce nausea, but I don't get nausea in VR anymore no matter the refresh, so it's hard to give you solid advice. I think the original argument for 90 (95) hz was to reduce nausea by increasing presence.



@RuneSR2 - This is a bit weird because back in the day Oculus seemed to swear that you needed 90Hz to reduce motion sickness in VR. These day's it doesn't seem to get talked about a lot, but for people still new to VR this is a big thing.


I believe part of the problem was that at lower refresh rates the view from the headset is lagging further behind your actual head movements.
But then they brought in the advances in Time Warp and Positional Time Warp, which reduces the visual lag by doing post render distortion using extremely up to date tracking and prediction. So the old advice of 90Hz is no longer as critical for that aspect of motion sickness.
Author: Oculus Monitor,  Auto Oculus Touch,  Forum Dark Mode, Phantom Touch Remover,  X-Plane Fixer
Hardware: Threadripper 1950x, MSI Gaming Trio 2080TI, Asrock X399 Taich
Headsets: Wrap 1200VR, DK1, DK2, CV1, Rift-S, GearVR, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Reverb G2

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

MowTin said:


RuneSR2 said:

Nice video showing Doom VFR gameplay using the Index:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cibzsi/did_anyone_try_doom_vfr_on_the_index/

I have to fix the controls, but it seems it isn't that hard - to me Doom VFR is the best fps in VR, even way better than Arizona Sunshine. With the Index you can really see the monsters, like:



I got smooth locomotion and smooth turning working with Doom VFR. I posted a video where they explain how to choose custom bindings. 

Then you open the console by pressing ~ on your keyboard and type
bind "STEAMVR_PRIMARY_AXIS3" "_lookright"
bind "STEAMVR_PRIMARY_AXIS2" "_lookleft"

@120Hz on the Index this game is mindblowing. It's so smooth and crisp looking. 

YMMV I'm using 2080ti.

You're right, this is the best FPS in VR by far. I can't convey how awesome this game is on the Index when using full smooth turning. It's so fast and intense and gory. It's FPS Nirvana. I want them to give us more.  

https://youtu.be/-csto70eR68?t=338


Awesome - I think I got it working now - full locomotion on left thumbstick, smooth turning on right thumbstick. I just chose the community setup made available July 18 - then loaded a saved game, pressed "~" (="shift + ½" on my Danish keyboard) to gain access to the console and pasted the following:

bind STEAMVR_PRIMARY_AXIS2 _lookLeft; bind STEAMVR_PRIMARY_AXIS3 _lookRight; bind STEAMVR_PRIMARY_AXIS4 _jump; bind STEAMVR_PRIMARY_A _weapnext; bind STEAMVR_SECONDARY_A _weapprev

A bit cumbersome, but seems to work perfectly - next up Skyrim VR and Fallout 4 VR, but there're already many Knuckles community setups to choose from. If a young Dutch girl can do it, I thought I'd have a chance getting it right too, lol. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

jab
Rising Star

RuneSR2 said:


MowTin said:

Why does the index HMD need a separate power adapter? The index has 3 cables, a DisplayPort, a USB, and a power cord. Why is that? 


I think Index needs more power than a normal USB 3.0 port can provide. If you connect the Index to a 3.1 type-c, then I think you won't need additional power - but I've yet to test that. 


If the connection hub is the same as with Vive, it has a built in active repeater to ensure that the headset receives a strong signal.

pyroth309
Visionary

RuneSR2 said:

BTW, I've not given up on the CV1 at all - I still want to be able to use it. I just ordered a converter to be able to connect CV1 to my USB 3.1 Type C port, which according to MSI is "VR -Ready". Interesting how that'll work out... 
While the sound is nice using the Index, I do miss the deep bass in the CV1, and Dash does make it much easier to interact with the desktop apps. SteamVR has many more advanced options and settings, which may be awesome for enthusiasts, but which also may make everything more cumbersome to use (like changing button mappings for Knuckles in specific games - hopefully devs will fix this for many games in the coming months).


Yea pretty much. Home is a more polished experience while SteamVR has a lot of nice features that are harder to use. The desktop functionality in SteamVR is a joke and I've never had any luck using it, even with the Valve Index but I think it's because I run a multimonitor setup on my VR rig. I just use Virtual Desktop. Also Dash has the ability to float windows in VR natively and you gotta buy software to do it in steamVR. IE DailyVR. I've gotten used to SteamVR and don't mind it but I do wish they would revamp it and update it to be more user friendly. 

Also for people who are having problems getting the Index sighted in, make sure you know your actual IPD. This page is helpful. 

https://www.targetoptical.com/wcsstore/TargetOpticalStorefrontAssetStore/Attachment/TO-PD%20Ruler-FI...

Shadowmask72
Honored Visionary
Regarding Doom VFR whilst it runs very smoothly at 144hz my monitoring displays around 80fps and about 60% GPU usage. I believe something isn't right with this application. No real differences either if I raise or lower any graphics settings. Any ideas?


System Specs: MSI NVIDIA RTX 4090 , i5 13700K CPU, 32GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 11 64 Bit OS.

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
BTW, I just compared Index speakers to some other open headphones, or speakers if you will, which also are made to provide 3D sound. I have two sets of open headphones - the first one is the this one with 40mm driver units:

f8bzbek5h82q.jpg
Just comparing normal stereo output these open headphones are quite a lot better than the Index speakers - actually these headphones have even better bass than the CV1 and even more fidelity than the Index, but Index is not bad when not comparing the bass. (I use the above wireless headphones for normal pancake gaming, so I'm quite familiar with the sound quality also in games.) 

I used this simple song for testing, if played right you should be able to nearly feel the bass in your stomach even if you're only using headphones 😉 - but I'm using the cd version of the song, this YouTube version doesn't get the bass completely right, probably due to sound compression:

https://youtu.be/DmVmDVZsBjc

I also compared using a set with 50mm driver units, and these headphones have truly awesome bass - but back then I paid the same for that set as the Index kit, so it's an unfair comparison. Maybe needless to say the Index is not even close to achieving comparable sound regarding all of the sound spectrum:

s9ye3sfwwdkg.jpg
According to Valve the Index speakers have 40Hz - 24KHz frequency response, but 40 Hz isn't really good (but probably extremely much better than Rift-S 😉 The wireless Sony headphones shown above both have frequency responses of 12Hz - 24Khz, and then there's the question of membrane quality (magnet material) and size of the driver units. Needless to say there're world of sound difference between 12 and 40 Hz. To my knowledge Oculus never revealed the frequency response of CV1. 

In short, Index has nice speakers, and they do work great in games (especially when people are talking), but they don't cover the same sound spectrum as normal medium to high-end headphones, especially when it comes to the bass. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

MowTin
Expert Trustee


So you're not returning the index any time soon then?

 😄 



No, but I may have to RMA. The SDE problem in one eye when moving is back. I think a high percentage of these panels are defective and there's a good chance my replacement HMD will have the same or worse. 

Other than terrible QC on these panels and the thumsticks it's an amazing headset. The FOV + variable refresh rates make it a premium experience compared to the Rift-S. 
i7 9700k 3090 rtx   CV1, Rift-S, Index, G2

MowTin
Expert Trustee

RuneSR2 said:


A bit cumbersome, but seems to work perfectly - next up Skyrim VR and Fallout 4 VR, but there're already many Knuckles community setups to choose from. If a young Dutch girl can do it, I thought I'd have a chance getting it right too, lol. 



 None of the Fallout 4 VR profiles work well. I think I'll have to make my own that mirrors what worked on the Rift. 

To be honest, I prefer the Rift/Rift-S controllers. The Index controllers have two design problems.

1. The Trackpad/Dpad thing is too and inaccurate to be useful. 

2. The grab is not a button. It's easy to accidentally activate it by squeezing too hard. 

Finally, why do you really need to track your pinky and that other useless finger? It adds nothing. 

Anyway, the main reason mapping for Fallout 4VR is proven difficult is because of #1. 
i7 9700k 3090 rtx   CV1, Rift-S, Index, G2

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

MowTin said:


RuneSR2 said:


A bit cumbersome, but seems to work perfectly - next up Skyrim VR and Fallout 4 VR, but there're already many Knuckles community setups to choose from. If a young Dutch girl can do it, I thought I'd have a chance getting it right too, lol. 



 None of the Fallout 4 VR profiles work well. I think I'll have to make my own that mirrors what worked on the Rift. 

To be honest, I prefer the Rift/Rift-S controllers. The Index controllers have two design problems.

1. The Trackpad/Dpad thing is too and inaccurate to be useful. 

2. The grab is not a button. It's easy to accidentally activate it by squeezing too hard. 

Finally, why do you really need to track your pinky and that other useless finger? It adds nothing. 

Anyway, the main reason mapping for Fallout 4VR is proven difficult is because of #1. 


But you could just deactivate #1? It should be possible to map Touch to Knuckles nearly 1:1, both have 2 thumbsticks and 4 buttons... But I haven't really tried making it work yet.  

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Anonymous
Not applicable

RuneSR2 said:

BTW, I just compared Index speakers to some other open headphones, or speakers if you will, which also are made to provide 3D sound. I have two sets of open headphones - the first one is the this one with 40mm driver units:

f8bzbek5h82q.jpg
Just comparing normal stereo output these open headphones are quite a lot better than the Index speakers - actually these headphones have even better bass than the CV1 and even more fidelity than the Index, but Index is not bad when not comparing the bass. (I use the above wireless headphones for normal pancake gaming, so I'm quite familiar with the sound quality also in games.) 

I used this simple song for testing, if played right you should be able to nearly feel the bass in your stomach even if you're only using headphones 😉 - but I'm using the cd version of the song, this YouTube version doesn't get the bass completely right, probably due to sound compression:

https://youtu.be/DmVmDVZsBjc

I also compared using a set with 50mm driver units, and these headphones have truly awesome bass - but back then I paid the same for that set as the Index kit, so it's an unfair comparison. Maybe needless to say the Index is not even close to achieving comparable sound regarding all of the sound spectrum:

s9ye3sfwwdkg.jpg
In short, Index has nice speakers, and they do work great in games, but they don't cover the same sound spectrum as normal medium to high-end headphones. 



I never thought of it being 3D, but open backed headphones do give a wider soundstage.