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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

Techy111
MVP
MVP
As per the title, please respect the users who post here and keep it on topic, any nonsense and......grrr
A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

2,973 REPLIES 2,973

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

RuneSR2 said:

And how about Wolfie? (we have guests staying over, haven't had time for Index in more the 24 hours and probably won't have any time also today, sigh)

https://youtu.be/tYsrTPhcY04 ;


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Bethesda, you're forgiven, but not forgotten   😉 Click to enlarge images. 

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Had a blast last night - or dare I say a great "Nazi barbecue" :blush: (poor souls, maybe they didn't want the job as a soldier and the last thing they saw was my PanzerHund)

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The first error you can make in Wolfie Cyber is thinking "I need 90+ fps", then you may just stop there unless you have a 2080 Ti. But it's not bad - I usually get 90 fps res 100% all other in-game graphic settings maxed (=Ultra).  

Textures aren't bad though:

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Most important thing is to turn off automatic resolution scaling in-game. Problem is that Wolfie now defaults to something that still looks like res 70% (or looks like having liquid butter drops in your eyes). What is needed is to open SteamVR and to set Cyberpilot resolution to at least 100%. 
Even using the Index, super-crisp graphics need res 200% and there's no video card on this planet (available to consumers) that can do that in 90+ fps. I started playing the game, and I did get much ghosting due to double frames, but actually it was no big deal - I thought I was using 120% res, but later I found out I was using 150% res :blush:  
100% and 120% are quite blurry - I think 150% res is just about right. And that's using the Index, maybe you can get away with less using the CV1 due to the generous image magic of the CV1 SDE. 

Tom's Hardware measured better performance in a game when deactivating motion smoothing (ms) - so I deactivated ms in Cyberpilot:


Motion smoothing (ms) may reduce performance - source: 
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/valve-index-vr-headset-controllers,6205-2.html

In short: 150% res in Steam (100% will give you 90 fps most of the time using a GTX 1080, but it's still quite blurry) will provide nice image quality, deactivate auto-res scaling in-game, set foveated quality to 100 (just in case, I don't think it works if you haven't got the Vive Pro Eye) and set all other graphics setting to Ultra or whatever is the max. If you got a 2080 Ti you may be able to get 90 fps in res 120%. I haven't tried going for 60 fps in 120Hz or 72 fps in 144 Hz. 

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The game looks awesome in Paris - this is probably the closest I've been to feeling being back in Half-Life 2 (City 17) - only now Nazis control everything. Using normal difficulty the battles may be too easy, but I like this kind of tourist mode :blush: 
The feeling when driving the battle mech is awesome too - I really noticed the Index' fov in this game, not just the vertical, but especially the horizontal fov. Normally horizontal fov in the CV1 ends where the frame on my glasses stop, but using the Index horizontal fov increases beyond the frame of my glasses (does that in other games too, but I really noticed it in Wolfie) - fov was really large, I nearly felt like having unrestricted fov.

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I don't think you need a lot of cpu power for this game - I never experienced any trouble - if I enabled auto-res then I constantly got 90 fps (7700K). 

Wolfie isn't for everyone, you have to consider getting 90 fps res 100% (=blurry image quality) or getting better image quality at the cost of fps. I've gotten used to 150% using the Index, maybe 200% is possible using the CV1, I get 45 fps a lot, but I've got strong VR legs and don't mind it. $20  is ok with me - it must have taken the devs a lot of time creating the city.

My rating 7/10. I'm not refunding the game. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
What would Linus buy if he had 20K? (jump to 1:04:23 if the time stamp doesn't work):

https://youtu.be/vowC0yYL7qI?t=3865

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
Not many change from Rift-S to Index - but this dude did and just posted his impressions:

"The rift s tracking even after the update is ok at best but lacks precision when aiming down a scope. I feel that you have to baby the tracking and worry about your movement when aiming to compensate ( this is after the update that improved tracking ). The index and Vive are great with the tracking. I was blown away with indexes resolution... everything feels clean and crisp. I just got my index less then a week ago and not a single issue with the controllers, it clicks just fine in any direction. Anyone worried about the issue I would just take the plunge and give it a full check and decide for yourself in the two week return policy. Edit# I can tell a huge difference between 80 and 120 fps..everything is much smoother and Onwards movement does not make my wife sick anymore...The main issue I had with the rift S is the random whiteout frame about one time an hour. Running a 1080Ti"

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cl7i76/went_from_vive_to_the_rift_s_and_now_the_index_i...

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
Job Simulator also just received full Index supprt:

https://steamcommunity.com/games/448280/announcements/detail/2719530027890733459

- and Moss doesn't work on Revive, may buy it again after reading this, sigh...

Wow Moss

Played through the game on the vive and it was a good game but on the index it really is a premium experience, it's so sharp and clear even with supersampling at 100%,the thumbsticks are great for aiming when controlling the armoured bettles, the audio is a treat for the ears and no sweaty headphones is a bonus for long play sessions and there's some new content that's been added recently with new areas to complete, it's such a good game but on the index it's amazing and I'm replaying the complete game again now just to experience it on the index, it feels like a better game for it, I'm loving it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cljw1l/wow_moss/



Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Techy111
MVP
MVP
If he just posted his impressions then why did he mention the white flashes that have been fixed for a while now ? 
A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

Techy111 said:

If he just posted his impressions then why did he mention the white flashes that have been fixed for a while now ? 


He posted his impressions yesterday, he did not write how many days (if any) it's been since he used the Rift-S the last time. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
BTW, regarding Wolfenstein: Cyberpilot - seems like the game is running perfectly using PSVR - which indicates that very little love was given to the PCVR version, sadly - review of the PSVR version:

"The production values are impeccable and it runs perfectly on the PS4 Pro/PSVR — if there was more meat to it, I’d call Wolfenstein: Cyberpilot one of the most enjoyable VR cockpit games around, but with such a paucity of content, it doesn’t justify even a budget pricetag."

https://gamecritics.com/daniel-weissenberger/wolfenstein-cyberpilot-review/ 


Then again, I easily spent 1-2 hours trying to get graphics settings right - when I'm done with the game I'll probably have used something like 5 or 6 hours, lol. 

Normally it's easy for the devs to get amazing PCVR performance out of PSVR games, like Moss, it's a great mystery why Bethesda couldn't give this game wings on the PC. Something is wrong - or very little time was used to make the PCVR version. Doom VFR is a shining diamond, no reason why Cyberpilot - at least regarding performance - should be different. 2c. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
It's still a work in progress, and the Revive Compatibility List doesn't fully cover the Index (it's primarily Vive hmds + wands). 

For now I've checked these games and they work perfectly with Index (= better than if using CV1) and support Knuckles like Touch:

Working (perfectly unless otherwise stated)
1. Lucky's Tale.
2. Bending the Light.
3. Gorn (snap turn doesn't work though - but HMD directed movements and full locomotion work).
4. Beat Saber.
5. Chronos.
6. Lone Echo (but I need to downscale graphics a lot for smooth performance - I like CV1 better).
7. Dreadhalls.
8. Rogan (black levels are ok, but like Lone Echo CV1 may win this one too). 
9. Mervils.
10. Vacation Simulator.
11. Evasion.
12. Affected the Manor (but basically unplayable due to lack of real blacks, CV1's deep oled blacks wins this one hands down - even with the spud, CV1 is really pitch black compared to Index).
13. Discovering Space 2 (actually works nice on the Index, even if black levels aren't perfect). 
14. Sacralith. 
15. Windlands 2.
16. The Kremer Collection.
17. Psychonauts - Rhombus of Ruin. 
18. Kin. 
19. Witchblood. 
20. TheBlu.
21. First Contact. 

Playable - but need more improvement
1. Defector (slight latency between HMD and real head movements = requires really strong VR legs, I prefer to use CV1). 
2. Racket: Nx (worked perfectly for a start, but crashed after some time, haven't retested it). 
3. Robinson The Journey (doesn't look right to me, I was totally blown away playing this game using CV1, Index didn't work like that).  
4. Lone Echo 2 Trailer Experience (lowers graphics and looks horrible).
5. The Bond. 
6. Seeking Dawn. 

Doesn't work
1. Fugl (black screen).
2. Five Night at Freddy's (heavy stuttering). 
3. Ultrawings. 
4. Ethan Carter. 
5. Moss.
6. Marble Land (copyprotection stops the game). 
7. Blaze Rush (no mapping for Knuckles). 
8. Trover (maybe it can work - still need to try lowering settings - but it's a no-go using my current CV1 settings - it stutters much the same as Five Nights at Freddys).
9. Racket Fury. 
10. Oculus Video. 

Still need to test tons of games and apps - but some may crash SteamVR, so I'm not that happy about testing all these games and apps... Revive can only see the default location (set in the Oculus Desktop app). Right now I'm moving a lot of stuff trying to make a default location containing only games working perfectly with Revive. Remaining games may need to be bought again on Steam (if available). 
It's my impression that Revive works best for exclusive Oculus games, where Revive devs may have spent most of their time getting everything right. Games available on Steam may have been given much less attention - which eventually may require these to be bought again - but it's not necessarily all bad, because the performance using the Steam version may be better. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

MowTin
Expert Trustee

RuneSR2 said:

Not many change from Rift-S to Index - but this dude did and just posted his impressions:

"The rift s tracking even after the update is ok at best but lacks precision when aiming down a scope. I feel that you have to baby the tracking and worry about your movement when aiming to compensate ( this is after the update that improved tracking ). The index and Vive are great with the tracking. I was blown away with indexes resolution... everything feels clean and crisp. I just got my index less then a week ago and not a single issue with the controllers, it clicks just fine in any direction. Anyone worried about the issue I would just take the plunge and give it a full check and decide for yourself in the two week return policy. Edit# I can tell a huge difference between 80 and 120 fps..everything is much smoother and Onwards movement does not make my wife sick anymore...The main issue I had with the rift S is the random whiteout frame about one time an hour. Running a 1080Ti"

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cl7i76/went_from_vive_to_the_rift_s_and_now_the_index_i...


I have both. If could only keep one, I would keep the Rift-S.

1. Rift-S plays all Oculus Home games and Steam VR works almost perfectly. But Index with Revive involves a serious performance hit and many issues with specific games. And the Oculus library has so many great games. 

2. If you have furniture in your play space, inside out tracking is best. It's almost impossible to setup cameras or base stations so that you can reach something under your desk or when your back is to one camera and you desk obstructs a part of the floor for the other camera. 

3. I prefer the Rift-S controllers. All the extra finger tracking is just a gimmick. Your pinky will never be used for anything besides hand gestures in multiplayer. There's no grab button. It's all about how much pressure you apply to the stem. It makes grab a "mushy" button. I'm constantly accidentally grabbing stuff or accidentally dropping stuff. 

4. Oculus ASW 2.0 software is better. 

Of course, the Index has huge advantages:

1. The Sound and the off ear speakers are spectacular. The Rift-S speakers are complete garbage in comparison. You have to use headphones and fumbling with headphones is a PITA. And headphones make you hotter and less comfortable than Valve's brilliant solution. 

2. The FOV and refresh rate of the Index blow Rift-S out of the water. I didn't realize it until I tried my Rift-S again, but the FOV is greater horizontally and vertically. It's a much bigger view. And the ability to adjust refresh rates is great for poor-performing games. If your games can't make 80Hz, let's say it's 75Hz then you'll get 40fps with ASW 2.0. If you're at 120Hz, you'll get 60fps with motion smoothing on the index. It's nice to have that option. And 120hz adds a great deal of presence. 
i7 9700k 3090 rtx   CV1, Rift-S, Index, G2

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
I think it's nice still having the CV1 (oled) for dark games - love having 5 sensors in the room now, lol - but the Index is really so far beyond CV1 in everything but sound that it's probably not fair to compare - the fov + res greatly increases presence, feels like I'm finally able to see everything. I don't have tracking issues with the Index, tracking is even better than CV1 (if that makes any sense, since CV1 is really good - but everything just feels more firm with the Index). Maybe I'm just lucky with the size of my hands and Knuckles, but Knuckles feel better in my hands and of better quality than old Touch. Lately it seems like Valve's improved finger tracking, I rarely have problems moving only pinky. But would be awesome if Oculus had released Index + Knuckles instead of Valve - so I could keep perfect game compatibility and asw 2.0 - "45 fps + motion smoothing" (Index) doesn't feel like 90 fps compared to Rift ASW 2.0.
In many ways I think of Index as the true successor to CV1 - they both share some glare, have awesome tracking, great controllers - but the Index feels like the cure for my main shortcomings with the CV1 (fov, res and SDE). 

BTW, saw this video today, not sure if it's funny, maybe it's just silly...

https://youtu.be/QXt4ZXt8Pys

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"