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Touch vs Index controllers and why I prefer Touch

MowTin
Expert Trustee
When I first saw the knuckles/index controllers being demoed, I was wowed by them and couldn't wait to get my hands on them. Now that I have them, I think I prefer Touch and I'll explain why...

The Thumbsticks


1. Notice how the index is dimpled. You have a much better tactile feel and grip for your thumb. Both XBox One and PS4 controllers have this. Why mess with perfection?

2. With Touch your last two fingers, pinky and ring finger, both grip the end of the controller as you move the thumbstick giving you better leverage and control. For the Index, griping is grabbing so can't grab.

The buttons

1. Notice how the Touch has four distinctly labeled buttons A, B, Y, X just like the XBox controller or PS4 controller using symbols. Index has A, B for both. They can be mapped differently but in games, you can't get a convenient Y or X indicator for what button you need to press. 

Grabbing

1. On Touch, grab is a trigger type button with travel. You clearly feel it and know how much travel you're applying. The Index depends on pressure. If you squeeze it hard enough you'll feel some click like feedback. This creates ambiguity when holding something. If the pressure your applying drops below some threshold, you drop what you're holding. I find that I grab things I didn't intend to grab and drop things that I didn't intend to drop. 

Tracking your ring and index finger serves very little practical use in games. Game makers aren't going to want to use a feature that's exclusive to the Index. And it's hard to imagine what you would really do with those fingers in a game that would be meaningful. 

Strap

1. You have the extra hassle of slipping your hands into the traps and out of the straps. It's not a huge hassle but it feels like taking gloves off one at a time versus just putting the controller down. 

2. Because your hands are strapped in, you can't slide your thumb up and down as easily as you can with touch. 

Charging

When I finish playing with my Index I have to remember to plug the controllers in to charge. With Touch I use rechargeable batteries and I can always just swap out batteries when they get low. It takes about 3 hours to charge the Index controllers. But that's a matter of preference. Some people prefer the ps4 controllers vs xbox battery swap. 

Price

1. We all smash our controller onto the wall or a desk once in a while. So, it's better if they're cheaper to replace if you break them.

The bottom line is while they look better and have this cool looking finger tracking feature, they're not functionally better yet cost much more. And for some crazy reason, they abandoned controller conventions that have been around for decades. 

I'm not even going to discuss how bad the trackpad/d-pad thingy is because Touch doesn't have one so overall it's an advantage for the index. You can press it like a button and use it like the d-pad in the xbox and ps4 controllers. 

It may seem like I'm trashing the Index controllers but I'm not. They're a huge improvement over wands and finger tracking is cool. 
 



i7 9700k 3090 rtx   CV1, Rift-S, Index, G2
159 REPLIES 159

RedRizla
Honored Visionary
@DaftnDirect - Yes, it's like I said earlier, if you don't have a VR room inside out tracking is good. But if you have a VR room I think the 3 sensor setup is far better. When I tried inside out tracking it wasn't just controllers close to the headset that was a problem for me (now fixed), it was the fact the controllers don't track behind your back and sometime the controller close to you would block the controller further away from you. That's why I'm saying the 3 sensor setup is much better.


RedRizla said:

@DaftnDirect - Yes, it's like I said earlier, if you don't have a VR room inside out tracking is good. But if you have a VR room I think the 3 sensor setup is far better. When I tried inside out tracking it wasn't just controllers close to the headset that was a problem for me (now fixed), it was the fact the controllers don't track behind your back and sometime the controller close to you would block the controller further away from you. That's why I'm saying the 3 sensor setup is much better.


Yes and no, it depends how much each of those scenarios is likely to occur and in what games you're likely to play that cause them to occur. Even VR rooms have things in them that occlude unless completely empty and even empty rooms have areas that cause occlusion when bending into a corner for example... the cameras have cones of detection after all.

Anyway, enough said.

Shadowmask72
Honored Visionary
As one of the few here who actually has both controllers and uses them daily (looking at them right now), I just think it's nice to be able to use either for different experiences. No need to talk down one over the other. Both function as expected in their relevant fields.  I think possibly the biggest issue for me is old touch design versus new touch design especially with regards to the upward ring placement of the new design. I think I prefer the feel and comfort of the old touch controllers when pitting those two together, but I digress.


System Specs: MSI NVIDIA RTX 4090 , i5 13700K CPU, 32GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 11 64 Bit OS.

RedRizla
Honored Visionary


As one of the few here who actually has both controllers and uses them daily (looking at them right now), I just think it's nice to be able to use either for different experiences. No need to talk down one over the other. Both function as expected in their relevant fields.  I think possibly the biggest issue for me is old touch design versus new touch design especially with regards to the upward ring placement of the new design. I think I prefer the feel and comfort of the old touch controllers when pitting those two together, but I digress.


I found the CV1 controllers much better. For some reason I would constantly keep putting the Rift S controllers in the wrong hands 😄
Also, when putting the Rift S controllers down on on my desk they would roll about instead of just sitting nicely on my desk like the CV1 controllers did. That's maybe because I didn't get chance to get used to them though because I didn't have Rift S long before returning it.

OK, just for the halibut I've been doing an occlusion test and I may have been maligning the current firmware/controller capabilities. Will post an unedited vid here when I've sorted out YouTube and my video software.

Edit: and if we're talking ring positions, I've got no preference, as long as it's where I last checked it was.

Luciferous
Consultant
If it’s losing your hands it’s not accurately tracking them, seems simple to me.


Zenbane
MVP
MVP


No need to talk down one over the other.


I have to mention it buddy. But talking down one over the other didn't seem to bother you much when you started that infamous Pimax Megathread. Talking down one over the other was all the rage back then, it seems!

Zenbane
MVP
MVP


If it’s losing your hands it’s not accurately tracking them, seems simple to me.


Occlusion <> Tracking Accuracy

When the Index controllers fail to accurately track fingers, it is not because the fingers were occluded. It is because the Index controllers suffer from accuracy issues. When a player pushes the Index Thumbstick forward to move and then tries to click it down to perform an action and it fails, it is not a failure caused by some sort of controller occlusion, it is a failure as a result the Knuckles being designed poorly.

Accuracy is measured by what is taking place when line-of-sight is kept. And in that regard, Knuckles have been reported to fail (e.g. bad finger tracking). But when you hide something from line-of-sight, that is occlusion, and has nothing to do with accuracy of tracking.

Imagine if you are driving a car and someone is judging you by your accuracy. And then someone blind-folds you, and your accuracy gets so bad that you crash. Would it be fair for someone to say that you are a bad driver because you crashed while blind-folded? Because that's what you're saying here.

If it's occluded there's zero accuracy so if you want to call that less accurate then go ahead but I think it's more useful to describe occlusions in terms of reliability, not accuracy.

If you point a camera in the wrong place it's not accurate. If you point it at the right place but have your finger over the lens, it's occluded.

OK occlusion test for the Rift-S... I've tried to put my hands near and over the cameras... below the headset... in line in front and so on. This is the first and only test so I've not picked a good test or edited anything. Have a look and comment. I can retest with different hand positions if you really want but it took longer to get onto youtube than I thought... maybe another tomorrow if needed (it's getting late).

https://youtu.be/SaTD6I5FUnY