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Touch vs Index controllers and why I prefer Touch

MowTin
Expert Trustee
When I first saw the knuckles/index controllers being demoed, I was wowed by them and couldn't wait to get my hands on them. Now that I have them, I think I prefer Touch and I'll explain why...

The Thumbsticks


1. Notice how the index is dimpled. You have a much better tactile feel and grip for your thumb. Both XBox One and PS4 controllers have this. Why mess with perfection?

2. With Touch your last two fingers, pinky and ring finger, both grip the end of the controller as you move the thumbstick giving you better leverage and control. For the Index, griping is grabbing so can't grab.

The buttons

1. Notice how the Touch has four distinctly labeled buttons A, B, Y, X just like the XBox controller or PS4 controller using symbols. Index has A, B for both. They can be mapped differently but in games, you can't get a convenient Y or X indicator for what button you need to press. 

Grabbing

1. On Touch, grab is a trigger type button with travel. You clearly feel it and know how much travel you're applying. The Index depends on pressure. If you squeeze it hard enough you'll feel some click like feedback. This creates ambiguity when holding something. If the pressure your applying drops below some threshold, you drop what you're holding. I find that I grab things I didn't intend to grab and drop things that I didn't intend to drop. 

Tracking your ring and index finger serves very little practical use in games. Game makers aren't going to want to use a feature that's exclusive to the Index. And it's hard to imagine what you would really do with those fingers in a game that would be meaningful. 

Strap

1. You have the extra hassle of slipping your hands into the traps and out of the straps. It's not a huge hassle but it feels like taking gloves off one at a time versus just putting the controller down. 

2. Because your hands are strapped in, you can't slide your thumb up and down as easily as you can with touch. 

Charging

When I finish playing with my Index I have to remember to plug the controllers in to charge. With Touch I use rechargeable batteries and I can always just swap out batteries when they get low. It takes about 3 hours to charge the Index controllers. But that's a matter of preference. Some people prefer the ps4 controllers vs xbox battery swap. 

Price

1. We all smash our controller onto the wall or a desk once in a while. So, it's better if they're cheaper to replace if you break them.

The bottom line is while they look better and have this cool looking finger tracking feature, they're not functionally better yet cost much more. And for some crazy reason, they abandoned controller conventions that have been around for decades. 

I'm not even going to discuss how bad the trackpad/d-pad thingy is because Touch doesn't have one so overall it's an advantage for the index. You can press it like a button and use it like the d-pad in the xbox and ps4 controllers. 

It may seem like I'm trashing the Index controllers but I'm not. They're a huge improvement over wands and finger tracking is cool. 
 



i7 9700k 3090 rtx   CV1, Rift-S, Index, G2
159 REPLIES 159

Zenbane
MVP
MVP

Wildt said:




Nah, it's the other way around - moving the stick fully to some direction and then pressing it. It's default in quite a lot of stick locomotion games. Just the other day I played Farpoint on PSVR with the aim controller, and I intuitively pressed the stick while walking, and lo and behold, it clicked and I started sprinting just as expected.




Clicking down on both Thumbsticks on my XBox controller works fine as well, in every direction. And this is the controller that came with my Rift back in 2016! My son plays those Roblox games, and he clicks down on the Thumbstick while running to cycle through inventory.

I used to play a ton of Halo years ago. And the thumstick clicks had a function (crouching and zooming).

And that was like... 19 years ago lol

Zenbane
MVP
MVP


Don’t remember naming anybody but if you think it applies to you.



You posted right after me, but if that's the strategy you're going to take (thinly veiled baiting)... then good luck! But so far, you are the one going off topic and making things personal. Not the first time either.

Luciferous
Consultant
Cheers  🙂

Zenbane
MVP
MVP



Cheers 


Rune enjoys your support, no doubt.
😄

Anyway, personal investments aside...

Here's another great video that breaks down the issue. And contrary to what some may say, the Thumbstick issue is widespread and it does impact just about any First Person Shooter style game.


This is one week ago, and notice this comment:
"on mine the thumbsticks were completely screwed, takes nearly all of my grip strength to get them to register a click at certain angles, impossible to hold a click and move the sticks around. took a month to get replacements and the ones they sent are exactly the same."

This user, as well as MRTV, received defective Knuckles even after an RMA. So using the excuse, "you can just RMA," isn't a valid way to address this widespread issue. Not to mention that RMA only works while the product is under warranty. And since Valve doesn't even consider this a valid defect, the long-term use of this product appears quite grim.

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
I enjoy that at least one person seems to understand what I try to communicate 😉 

I'm sure readers of this fine thread now are able to make a well-informed purchase if they consider some Knuckles or Touch, lol. 

In the European Union you've got 2 years of warranty (or two years where you can return a product for RMA or a refund, if the product develops faults that you didn't cause), in the US you've got 1 year.

With about 800 views and 110 comments I'm not sure that more than about 5 persons read this thread, lol - maybe it's a thread for die-hard enthusiasts who really ought to be spending more time elsewhere  B)

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Wildt
Consultant
Just went round the house and tried the gamepads I could get my hands on, and they ALL had perfectly clickable thumbsticks in all directions:

Xbox 360
Xbox one
PS4
PSVR aim
Nvidia Shield controller
Steelseries Stratus XL
Logitech Rumblepad 2 (9 years old!)
PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
WMR: HP Reverb

Zenbane
MVP
MVP

RuneSR2 said:

With about 800 views and 110 comments I'm not sure that more than about 5 persons read this thread



Possibly. I guess we can Tweet a link to the thread to help spread the message about avoiding the Index Knuckles until they are properly addressed.


maybe it's a thread for die-hard enthusiasts who really ought to be spending more time elsewhere

You have spent a lot of time in this thread and the Index Megathread, and you even created a reddit post in order to try to address the contents of this thread. I agree that some people should probably consider spending more time elsewhere. Overly championing Valve Index on an Oculus Forum doesn't seem like the best way to spend ones time. I could be wrong though.

Luciferous
Consultant
Runes is pretty straight in his reviews, in fact he is one of the other reasons I cancelled my index reserve. I wanted to be sure if I pay 1000 bucks, its going to be a big enough difference from my CV1 (FOV especially).  I have to buy a new graphics card also so double whammy.

The CV1 still won out in his reviews on different technical aspects/preferences, too many times for me and that made me hesitate. So just felt that needed to be pointed out. 

The knuckles could be a Marmite situation though (which in the UK is a sandwich spread were people either love or hate it). For our Australian mods it is like Vegemite but a much stronger taste :).


RuneSR2
Grand Champion
"Best available controllers" according to IGN's review:

https://youtu.be/GUTng28615g

The review was just posted on Index Reddit, but I can see it's from June 28 - still the reviewer loved the controllers. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion


Runes is pretty straight in his reviews, in fact he is one of the other reasons I cancelled my index reserve. I wanted to be sure if I pay 1000 bucks, its going to be a big enough difference from my CV1 (FOV especially).  I have to buy a new graphics card also so double whammy.

The CV1 still won out in his reviews on different technical aspects/preferences, too many times for me and that made me hesitate. So just felt that needed to be pointed out. 

The knuckles could be a Marmite situation though (which in the UK is a sandwich spread were people either love or hate it).




Thanks, CV1 will indeed still win over Index in dark games - maybe not Elite, but extremely dark horror games. In simple games like Vacation Simulator or Quest ports maybe the money on Index is wasted too - when you have no real textures (and when using high ss on CV1 making everything look rather sharp), but Index wins the rest by a very large margin. The main problem is that using the Index will make you so much aware of CV1 shortcomings (fov, SDE, res) that it may completely destroy most of the joy the CV1 currently provides. So do be careful 😉 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"