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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    What would Linus buy if he had 20K? (jump to 1:04:23 if the time stamp doesn't work):


    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    Not many change from Rift-S to Index - but this dude did and just posted his impressions:

    "The rift s tracking even after the update is ok at best but lacks precision when aiming down a scope. I feel that you have to baby the tracking and worry about your movement when aiming to compensate ( this is after the update that improved tracking ). The index and Vive are great with the tracking. I was blown away with indexes resolution... everything feels clean and crisp. I just got my index less then a week ago and not a single issue with the controllers, it clicks just fine in any direction. Anyone worried about the issue I would just take the plunge and give it a full check and decide for yourself in the two week return policy. Edit# I can tell a huge difference between 80 and 120 fps..everything is much smoother and Onwards movement does not make my wife sick anymore...The main issue I had with the rift S is the random whiteout frame about one time an hour. Running a 1080Ti"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cl7i76/went_from_vive_to_the_rift_s_and_now_the_index_i/
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    Job Simulator also just received full Index supprt:

    https://steamcommunity.com/games/448280/announcements/detail/2719530027890733459

    - and Moss doesn't work on Revive, may buy it again after reading this, sigh...

    Wow Moss

    Played through the game on the vive and it was a good game but on the index it really is a premium experience, it's so sharp and clear even with supersampling at 100%,the thumbsticks are great for aiming when controlling the armoured bettles, the audio is a treat for the ears and no sweaty headphones is a bonus for long play sessions and there's some new content that's been added recently with new areas to complete, it's such a good game but on the index it's amazing and I'm replaying the complete game again now just to experience it on the index, it feels like a better game for it, I'm loving it.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cljw1l/wow_moss/



    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,770 Volunteer Moderator
    If he just posted his impressions then why did he mention the white flashes that have been fixed for a while now ? 
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Techy111 said:
    If he just posted his impressions then why did he mention the white flashes that have been fixed for a while now ? 
    He posted his impressions yesterday, he did not write how many days (if any) it's been since he used the Rift-S the last time. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    BTW, regarding Wolfenstein: Cyberpilot - seems like the game is running perfectly using PSVR - which indicates that very little love was given to the PCVR version, sadly - review of the PSVR version:

    "The production values are impeccable and it runs perfectly on the PS4 Pro/PSVR — if there was more meat to it, I’d call Wolfenstein: Cyberpilot one of the most enjoyable VR cockpit games around, but with such a paucity of content, it doesn’t justify even a budget pricetag."

    https://gamecritics.com/daniel-weissenberger/wolfenstein-cyberpilot-review/ 


    Then again, I easily spent 1-2 hours trying to get graphics settings right - when I'm done with the game I'll probably have used something like 5 or 6 hours, lol. 

    Normally it's easy for the devs to get amazing PCVR performance out of PSVR games, like Moss, it's a great mystery why Bethesda couldn't give this game wings on the PC. Something is wrong - or very little time was used to make the PCVR version. Doom VFR is a shining diamond, no reason why Cyberpilot - at least regarding performance - should be different. 2c. 

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    It's still a work in progress, and the Revive Compatibility List doesn't fully cover the Index (it's primarily Vive hmds + wands). 

    For now I've checked these games and they work perfectly with Index (= better than if using CV1) and support Knuckles like Touch:

    Working (perfectly unless otherwise stated)
    1. Lucky's Tale.
    2. Bending the Light.
    3. Gorn (snap turn doesn't work though - but HMD directed movements and full locomotion work).
    4. Beat Saber.
    5. Chronos.
    6. Lone Echo (but I need to downscale graphics a lot for smooth performance - I like CV1 better).
    7. Dreadhalls.
    8. Rogan (black levels are ok, but like Lone Echo CV1 may win this one too). 
    9. Mervils.
    10. Vacation Simulator.
    11. Evasion.
    12. Affected the Manor (but basically unplayable due to lack of real blacks, CV1's deep oled blacks wins this one hands down - even with the spud, CV1 is really pitch black compared to Index).
    13. Discovering Space 2 (actually works nice on the Index, even if black levels aren't perfect). 
    14. Sacralith. 
    15. Windlands 2.
    16. The Kremer Collection.
    17. Psychonauts - Rhombus of Ruin. 
    18. Kin. 
    19. Witchblood. 
    20. TheBlu.
    21. First Contact. 

    Playable - but need more improvement
    1. Defector (slight latency between HMD and real head movements = requires really strong VR legs, I prefer to use CV1). 
    2. Racket: Nx (worked perfectly for a start, but crashed after some time, haven't retested it). 
    3. Robinson The Journey (doesn't look right to me, I was totally blown away playing this game using CV1, Index didn't work like that).  
    4. Lone Echo 2 Trailer Experience (lowers graphics and looks horrible).
    5. The Bond. 
    6. Seeking Dawn. 

    Doesn't work
    1. Fugl (black screen).
    2. Five Night at Freddy's (heavy stuttering). 
    3. Ultrawings. 
    4. Ethan Carter. 
    5. Moss.
    6. Marble Land (copyprotection stops the game). 
    7. Blaze Rush (no mapping for Knuckles). 
    8. Trover (maybe it can work - still need to try lowering settings - but it's a no-go using my current CV1 settings - it stutters much the same as Five Nights at Freddys).
    9. Racket Fury. 
    10. Oculus Video. 

    Still need to test tons of games and apps - but some may crash SteamVR, so I'm not that happy about testing all these games and apps... Revive can only see the default location (set in the Oculus Desktop app). Right now I'm moving a lot of stuff trying to make a default location containing only games working perfectly with Revive. Remaining games may need to be bought again on Steam (if available). 
    It's my impression that Revive works best for exclusive Oculus games, where Revive devs may have spent most of their time getting everything right. Games available on Steam may have been given much less attention - which eventually may require these to be bought again - but it's not necessarily all bad, because the performance using the Steam version may be better. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,925 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    Not many change from Rift-S to Index - but this dude did and just posted his impressions:

    "The rift s tracking even after the update is ok at best but lacks precision when aiming down a scope. I feel that you have to baby the tracking and worry about your movement when aiming to compensate ( this is after the update that improved tracking ). The index and Vive are great with the tracking. I was blown away with indexes resolution... everything feels clean and crisp. I just got my index less then a week ago and not a single issue with the controllers, it clicks just fine in any direction. Anyone worried about the issue I would just take the plunge and give it a full check and decide for yourself in the two week return policy. Edit# I can tell a huge difference between 80 and 120 fps..everything is much smoother and Onwards movement does not make my wife sick anymore...The main issue I had with the rift S is the random whiteout frame about one time an hour. Running a 1080Ti"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cl7i76/went_from_vive_to_the_rift_s_and_now_the_index_i/
    I have both. If could only keep one, I would keep the Rift-S.

    1. Rift-S plays all Oculus Home games and Steam VR works almost perfectly. But Index with Revive involves a serious performance hit and many issues with specific games. And the Oculus library has so many great games. 

    2. If you have furniture in your play space, inside out tracking is best. It's almost impossible to setup cameras or base stations so that you can reach something under your desk or when your back is to one camera and you desk obstructs a part of the floor for the other camera. 

    3. I prefer the Rift-S controllers. All the extra finger tracking is just a gimmick. Your pinky will never be used for anything besides hand gestures in multiplayer. There's no grab button. It's all about how much pressure you apply to the stem. It makes grab a "mushy" button. I'm constantly accidentally grabbing stuff or accidentally dropping stuff. 

    4. Oculus ASW 2.0 software is better. 

    Of course, the Index has huge advantages:

    1. The Sound and the off ear speakers are spectacular. The Rift-S speakers are complete garbage in comparison. You have to use headphones and fumbling with headphones is a PITA. And headphones make you hotter and less comfortable than Valve's brilliant solution. 

    2. The FOV and refresh rate of the Index blow Rift-S out of the water. I didn't realize it until I tried my Rift-S again, but the FOV is greater horizontally and vertically. It's a much bigger view. And the ability to adjust refresh rates is great for poor-performing games. If your games can't make 80Hz, let's say it's 75Hz then you'll get 40fps with ASW 2.0. If you're at 120Hz, you'll get 60fps with motion smoothing on the index. It's nice to have that option. And 120hz adds a great deal of presence. 
    i7 9700k 2080ti   CV1, Rift-S, Index
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    I think it's nice still having the CV1 (oled) for dark games - love having 5 sensors in the room now, lol - but the Index is really so far beyond CV1 in everything but sound that it's probably not fair to compare - the fov + res greatly increases presence, feels like I'm finally able to see everything. I don't have tracking issues with the Index, tracking is even better than CV1 (if that makes any sense, since CV1 is really good - but everything just feels more firm with the Index). Maybe I'm just lucky with the size of my hands and Knuckles, but Knuckles feel better in my hands and of better quality than old Touch. Lately it seems like Valve's improved finger tracking, I rarely have problems moving only pinky. But would be awesome if Oculus had released Index + Knuckles instead of Valve - so I could keep perfect game compatibility and asw 2.0 - "45 fps + motion smoothing" (Index) doesn't feel like 90 fps compared to Rift ASW 2.0.
    In many ways I think of Index as the true successor to CV1 - they both share some glare, have awesome tracking, great controllers - but the Index feels like the cure for my main shortcomings with the CV1 (fov, res and SDE). 

    BTW, saw this video today, not sure if it's funny, maybe it's just silly...

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    Some dude posted this photo on Reddit:

    Post image

    I've been thinking about something similar the last days. One argument for getting CV1 was Carmack, but thinking about it Valve has had a great impact on my life too. I was 25 years old when Half-Life launched in Nov 1998, I still remember having some friends over, they were blown away - while I thought the game could use more polys than the dated Quake-engine provided, lol. Then there were games like Half-Life: Opposing Force, Half-Life: Blue Shift, and Gunman Chronicles to name a few - but Half-Life 2 was the one Valve game that impressed me the most. Loved Portal 2 too, and there was always something special about Valve's games - like Carmack's games. Some special quality that never did go unnoticed. It's probably no coincidence that both Carmark and Newell now both work to promote the ultimate experience in first person gaming - VR. 
    Using the Index - and seeing the connections to Valve's history in for example The Lab does bring many memories back. In short having both CV1 and Index somehow do feel like reestablishing some connection to both Doom and Half-Life, my favorite series of pancake games - and the Index does have some more weight, can't say that it couldn't feel like this  :D 

    Image result for index headcrab valve

    Who knows, maybe my journey to the Index did indeed start here:

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,151 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Very informative of you Rune.

    I think the clock is ticking for NMS VR on the Index. I think that will be something rather special.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,151 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Hey Ethan Carter works if you have the Steam Version. I guess you don't need revive for that. Pretty awesome when you up the SS and turn off the AA.

    Racket Fury works a treat though and a really great example of 144hz gaming. Not sure why you have it listed as not working.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    Hey Ethan Carter works if you have the Steam Version. I guess you don't need revive for that. Pretty awesome when you up the SS and turn off the AA.

    Racket Fury works a treat though and a really great example of 144hz gaming. Not sure why you have it listed as not working.

    I only have the Oculus version of Ethan, still doesn't work with 1.7.2. But Racket Fury does - yes, it looks awesome, have only tried 90 hz. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Kinda liked this review - also because you really can't judge a new HMD in a week or two - even if you have to ;) And often the sum is much more than the individual parts. 

    Initial impressions don’t fairly evaluate VR hmds. Here is a 3.5 week review of the Index.


    It’s easy to have a knee jerk reaction after spending $1k on a vr system. This is barely better than the Rift S, the colors and black levels aren’t as good as the Vive, the screen door is worse than the Odyssey+, the controllers may feel unnatural and have thumb sticks that don’t click.

    As someone that had a Vive and an Odyssey+, I was completely unimpressed by the Valve Index aside from build quality and out of the box presentation. I am not a fanboy for any brand and frankly I’m willing to jump ship for whatever is the best available hmd. I considered returning many times during the initial 2 weeks I had it, but after almost a whole month of having it, I wouldn’t trade this in for any currently available headset. I believe that even at its high price point and a few issues this headsets still a good value.


    The overall experience trumps other headsets, but it’s definitely not something that reveals itself within the first few days.


    So what changed my mind overall this time? I think SteamVR has gotten a bit more stable for the Valve Index over the past few weeks for one. This means I haven’t had a single crash or usb issue in over a week now. Secondly, certain games might paint the Index in a poor light, whereas other games will make it absolutely sing. Those games that don’t perform well, I’ve realized can likely be modded or fixed by the devs to make them a better experience.


    So since I said I’d give a review... here we go.


    The good:


    • Audio. I want a pair of these head speakers for non VR use and I own tons of headphones including Sennheiser 650s, Sony 1000 MX3s, Allen & Heath XD53s, V-Moda M100s and others.

    • Excellent overall edge to edge clarity. There is very little blur and distortion as you look around with your eyes. There is also no pupil swim distortion as you look around with your eyes.

    • Decent Field of View. I typically have the eye relief turned 2-3 clicks out from touching my forehead. This FOV feels like the absolute minimum for not feeling claustrophobic. I can’t use anything less now.

    • Adjustable Refresh Rate. If I’m playing Moss I’m dropping that Refresh Rate to 80hz for maximizing super sampling. If I’m playing SPT or Beat Saber, I’m setting the refresh rate to 144hz. For a good balance I usually run games at 120hz and supersampling set to 1.0, but I can’t wait to be able to consistently play at 144hz and 1.5SS when the next line of GPUs come out from AMD and Nvidia.

    • Resolution. The amount of detail at high SS values you can see is incredible. I played Form yesterday at 80hz and there is a small piece of paper lying on the desk with tiny equations scribbled all over it, and I was surprised at how easy it was to read.

    • Having open hands as a resting state. I originally struggled with the controllers and comfort. The main issue was wearing them too tight. Now I keep them loose as sock you slip on your foot, and I just slip my controllers on and off and they naturally rest with my thumb in the center of the trackpad. Making sure the strap rests right behind your last set of knuckles is clutch.

    • HMD Comfort. I have long curly hair and all other hmds pull out my hair (halo and non halo designs). I put in the extra head pad on the Index and I have played for hours and no issues. Most guys will never notice this as an issue, but believe me when I say women will notice the amount an hmd pulls on their hair.

    • Magnetic removable face gasket. This is seriously the dark horse of this review. I soak this constantly with sweat. I easily remove it and wash it with water and the end of the night and set it out to dry, and it’s good to go for the next day. Also, makes it super easy to clean the lenses before each session. I cannot wait for my extra gaskets to arrive fro Valve, and will immediately buy leather ones from VRCover as soon as they release for guests to use and clean with wipes.

    • Tracking. It just works.

    • Mic. It’s studio quality.


    There are a few trade offs moving to this headset.

    • Glare in select games (Hellblade has awful glare, but games like The Lab, Compound, Vertigo 2, and Moss have no glare). This seems like it could be fixed with in game contrast and brightness settings, which are pretty standard in flat games.

    • Thumbsticks that don’t click when tilted (only an issue in a couple games so far and it can be fixed, so I expect Valve to issue an optional repair program when they figure out a long term fix).

    • Poor controller implementation in certain games (using Revive to play Steam games and mimic Touch controllers often resolves this issue according to u/shmity18 of Rendered Reality). Honestly this hasn’t been a huge issue for me yet. Also, this seems like something Valve and the devs can easily fix. If there’s a game that seems not to work well, hop on their Discussion page on Steam and complain!

    • No wireless adapter. I hate the cable. Even when I’m playing sitting games I can’t help think how much nicer it would be without the cord. Valve, I know you are working on this, but please make this happen soon!

    • Button/Trackpad/Thumbstick layout. I wish I could have helped develop this controller. I think they did a really good job overall, but just a few minor changes to positioning the trackpad and buttons would make it absolutely killer. I’ll go into this another time. I want to 3D print some models instead of trying to explain my thoughts.


    At the end of the day, I think people have a tendency to want to make instant assessments of VR systems. The fact is you usually need a couple weeks with them to make up your mind if they are right for you. This is why the tech reviewers like u/samred81 of Ars, u/notdagreatbrain of Tested, and u/RoadtoVR_Ben actually got their reviews right. They spent a month with these systems.


    Certain games are going to be incredible in this HMD, while others have not been designed with it in in mind. I highly recommend trying out The Lab, Moss, Vertigo 2, and Compound VR. Also give Space Pirate Trainer at 144 he a try. Moss should be played at 80hz. Other games are good at 120hz. If you have a 980ti/1070 or worse, consider upgrading to the 5700XT or 2070 Super or better. It will make a big difference with this hmd.


    I still can sell this headset tomorrow on Facebook or eBay tomorrow and have no problem getting rid of it. But, this is not in the cards for me. I love this headset now that I have figured out how to get the most out of it and will be using it for the next couple years until we see another big advancement in vr hmds.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cgwd6v/initial_impressions_dont_fairly_evaluate_vr_hmds/

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Time for another Deep Dive - if you want to know about the Index speakers!

    https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/index/deep-dive/ear-speakers



    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    BTW, maybe a nice homepage for the browser:

    https://store.steampowered.com/sale/valve_index_featured_games/


    Then again, still like Blue's News  :)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    New icons are coming  B)


    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    Old wine in new bottles isn't necessarily a bad thing!

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Look what an evil Index psycho-serial-killer did  :s   :#

    https://imgur.com/a/E8rDHfu
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,356 Valuable Player
    #ClickGate is becoming a major PR issue for Valve:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF-td1A7yco&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3iRs-GrwDsKy9CoDXUaSeG8gonLGoOGsYYj-WLkzzcY3lGaY06SEfL2Mw

    Four weeks, only to send back a new pair that still does the same thing - someone at Valve dropped a major ball there!

    We recently saw the Valve VR team get a little smaller so we can only deduce that they are all over worked at the moment.

    From some of the comments on the forums, I wonder if Valve will continue this experiment, or will just ease back from further investment till they are happy with the process?
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Of course Valve should fix faulty controllers, hopefully this will soon be done.

    Seems like Linus no longer thinks that VR is dead and he - like me (maybe we both got lucky controllers) - loves the Index:



    Looks like he's using a mini-ITX case just like me, lol - and seems he got an incredible experience even if using only a GTX 980 Ti. Note that he also describes the Index as a next gen HMD.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    Linus is probably the only Canadian Valve's shipping to. :P
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,770 Volunteer Moderator
    Linus ? LINUS ??? He would be happy with a damn Nintendo gameboy !!!
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    I always wondered what HMD and controllers the World Cup Champion in VR would use...  B)



    According to the champ people without prior VR experience can just pick up and intuitively use the Knuckles, does sound reasonable, I haven't tested it on Grandpa yet, lol. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    SteamVR just got another beta update -  beta now is 1.7.4 (standard version is 1.6.10):

    SteamVR Beta Updated - 1.7.4

    13 AUG @ 2:45AM - BENDOTCOM


    Lighthouse:
    • Improve the registration of controllers to headsets when moving together rigidly coupled, such as with a gun stock accessory. This applies to all combinations of HMDs, controllers, and tracking pucks made by Valve and HTC.
    SteamVR:
    • Fixed VR View window from frequently unminimizing and putting itself on top.
    • Fixed docked VR View’s aspect ratio.
    • Docked VR View will no longer hide when the HMD is in standby or isn’t tracking. 
    • Added URL handler to open the Debug Commands window. vrmonitor://debugcommands
    Linux:
    • Reduce CPU utilization when async reprojection is disabled.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • jabjab Posts: 251
    Nexus 6
    I got really confused for a moment. Did Oculus actually bothering to write a short note saying what's fixed or changed in this software release? But then I remembered this is the Index thread..
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Another CV1 user made the jump - there're many but I think this dude covered the most important aspects and may represent many other CV1 owners. Remember these are the very first impressions - before habituation kicks in ;)

    Upgraded from CV1 to Index

    Bear in mind all is just my opinion, that may help you with your decission wether to buy an Index or not

    0) Setup was easy

    1. FOV is a huge upgrade, just a slight black border right and left, I can finally enjoy VR like I wanted it from the beginning

    2. I don´t have any artifacts on the displays, they look perfect to me (no lines or so)

    3. Black levels are fantastic, in fact much better than on my CV1 (no black smear). I couldn´t see anything in Affected The Manor because it was so damn black everywhere

    4. Headset has a huge sweet spot

    5. 120hz is nice and you notice it

    6. Display is much sharper, you can finally read text without getting a headache and you will notice details you haven´t seen before

    7. The sound is quite good, but I expected more

    8. The Controllers will take time to get used to, you have to really open your hand and close to grab something

    9. Base stations make an anoying loud sound, both of them. I have to unplug them while not in use.

    10. Steam is still a mess. Hangs up, after a restart it doesn´t see the Index as a speaker and I have to unplug the power of the Index and plug it back in so Windows/Steam finds it again.

    11. You can play lots of games via Revive, it´s pretty easy to use, but expect bad performance. (Could be that I was playing in 120hz with my 1080, will have to try again with 90hz.

    12. God rays are back, at least at the edges you will see them alot, but game design gets around that

    13. Tracking is awesome and much better than my CV1 setup with 3 sensors (and I freed 3 USB slots aswell)

    Conclusion: I will keep my Index and sell the CV1, mainly because of the bigger FOV, the crisp display and the the controllers. But keep in mind this is not a product for beginners, the Oculus hardware + software is much easier to use and a Rift S or Quest may be the better product for you.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/crqc7z/upgraded_from_cv1_to_index/


    For point 3 I have to disagree - CV1 is a lot better than the Index, especially in Affected The Manor. But yes, SPUD is gone using the Index, but so are the deep blacks in horror games, where you really need them. I'm starting to use the term "cinema blacks" to describe Index blacks - because in the cinema, where everything is shown on a white screen, you get much similar black levels, and you certainly don't get oled blacks. 

    For point 7 I agree - but some newbies are unaware that you can push the speakers down (they are placed in small rails), so they come closer to your ears. This makes the bass closer to the CV1 quality, but CV1 still wins when it comes to bass - above something like 500Hz Index speakers have no competition from the CV1 headphones. 

    Point 9 - he hasn't yet figured out that the base stations should be set to standby mode when you close SteamVR. This needs to be done manually by clicking SteamVR Settings, selecting the base stations and set them to power down when SteanVR is closed. Then the stations are completely silent - and you don't hear them in-game. 

    Point 10 - I never experienced that problem, Index sound and speakers work flawlessly on my rig - never saw that problem described on Reddit Index either. Steam starts minimized on my rig, then I press the SteamVR button on the Knuckles (or the HMD), and SteamVR + the Index HMD start up automatically. Oculus still is better here - using CV1 I just need to put on the HMD and everything starts. No matter if I use CV1 or Index I don't have to turn on my monitor. Steam and then SteamVR take longer time to start though. 

    Point 11 - obviously he shouldn't be using 120 Hz in all games. I use 90 Hz and usually get better performance using Index than CV1 - but it'll depend on how much ss you force on the CV1. If you don't use ss, clearly Index ss 1.0 will be more demanding than CV1 ss 1.0. But Index ss 1.0 looks about 4-5 times better than CV1 ss 2.0 and performs much better too, there really isn't any comparison. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,770 Volunteer Moderator
    My email came last week, I just cannot take the leap because of godrays noticeable or not. I'd notice them. I will hold out for upcoming (reverb) headsets.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,905 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Techy111 said:
    My email came last week, I just cannot take the leap because of godrays noticeable or not. I'd notice them. I will hold out for upcoming (reverb) headsets.
    The glare is there, but usually I really don't notice it. Played Doom VFR for 2 hours yesterday, never noticed any glare in-game. But you'll notice it if you got some small white text on a completely black background. I think it's an artifact of the dual lenses. I've found that dialing in the lenses seem to reduce the glare, at least it's not worse than CV1, and I'm rarely bothered by god rays using the CV1.

    Also I think the Index should be worn like a crown, which also seems to reduce glare. I call it glare because I don't think it's the same as god rays, but I could be wrong.
    Index is nearly twice the weight of CV1 when you're standing and have to lift like 5+ feet of cable too (Index cable is about 50% thicker and also heavier), so it's important to get a perfect fit. Like a crown weight should be put on your forehead and the back of your head, not on your cheekbones. You fix that by moving/tilting the Index slightly upwards, until you feel no or minimal pressure on your cheekbones - this seems to also reduce glare a lot and doesn't affect image quality at all. In games I don't notice glare, not even in dark games/apps like Discovering Space 2. I don't recall having any game or app I don't use because of glare. But I use CV1 for Affected the Manor, not because of glare, but because that game needs the deep oled blacks. 
    Reverb may of course be better for sims due to the res - advantages of Index would be fov and 120+ hz, and the controllers, but you probably don't need the controllers in sims ;)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,770 Volunteer Moderator
    Yeah whatever headset comes out first with the resolution for my sims will get my money. Gutted that the HP offering was a dud at the time mate. Fingers crossed for the near future.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

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