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Why don't one of the big VR companies make a VR headset with a decent resolution?

RedRizla
Honored Visionary
I was just wondering why one of the big VR companies like Oculus, Valve & HTC, don't give us the choice of having a really good resolution displays like the HP Reverb? I know some people will say it's because not everyone has the graphics card to run VR at high resolutions, but the HP Reverb is capable of running well on just a Geforce 1080ti and plenty of people have those graphics cards. HP also said there was huge demand for their VR Headset, which they didn't expect, but they soon realized this was due to the fact no other headset was pushing their resolutions and the sim community especially were really interested.
Given that the sim community isn't what you would call a small community, (hence the reason why some companies make expensive steering wheels and Hotas Joysticks) I just thought one of the bigger VR companies might have given the sim enthusiasts a decent resolution headset. But it's not only sim enthusiast I'm talking about here because other games will run good with these higher resolution. We all know sims can be demanding, so other games should have no problems.
I do get why Oculus want to cater for the lower end VR market and for people with a Geforce 1060, but they can still cater for these people and give people with a higher end computers something to shout about. Surly it can't be that hard to make a line of VR headsets with just higher resolution displays like the HP Reverb.
Since Oculus are not currently catering for the higher end Graphics cards, it is just forcing me to look elsewhere for a VR headset and I don't really want to do tbh.
48 REPLIES 48

RedRizla
Honored Visionary

Mradr said:


My prediction is going forward here - what makes a headset stand out wont be the higher resolution or specs that one can offer in a headset - but what technology are they going to use to help support the higher specs + keep it still usable to the general public in terms of cost and support. What I mean is - that it's too late for Oculus to focus on a "pro" version of a headset now - they are better off just aiming for the next leap to better support higher end specs instead.

Now that's the kind of input I was looking for, which kind of makes sense. But I just wish they had made Rift S more of an upgade to CV1 rather then having to spend £399 on not much of an upgrade at all. I won't go into what has already been said a few times in these forums, but for some (me included) Rift S is a downgrade. But to be fair I think Oculus themselves have said it isn't really an upgrade to CV1 though.
I hope there is some mention this month what their future plans are regarding PV -VR, because if not it looks like it's a HP Reverb for me this time around even with it's shitty controllers. I just want to see an improvement in display instead of feeling short sighted in VR all the time. I've heard HP Reverb is very 2D monitor like and that's all I want VR to be like.

saami81
Rising Star
I think that they will, if HP Reverb makes good and solid profit. Companies tend to love money. They are not doing what they do to just angry VR enthuasists.

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
I do understand the frustration, but after having used the Index for 6 weeks I don't have a problem with res, in fact should I wish for something I'd like an oled screen with same res, number of subpixels and lack of SDE. 
Dialing in the Index will theoretically reduce res and increase fov - but I don't notice reduced res, which implies to me that res has reached a point where it's really good. 
Of course you can always dream of more, but right now I don't see a problem using Index for the next 2-3 years. Res is just one variant to increase presence, fov means just as much to me and Hz. 144 Hz is truly awesome - you're present like never before - I'll probably need a gpu 3 times faster than my current to explore the full potential of the Index (144 Hz in ss 200%).

In the more demanding games, you may need 2080 (Ti) just to run Index at ss 100% to get solid 90 fps (I get a lot of dips below 90 using my GTX 1080). Although Reverb looks great in some games and apps, I don't think the time is right for 4K hmds yet. I think HTC also reached a similar conclusion when choosing res for Cosmos.

Even though I got nice performance in Lone Echo (Index ss 100%), the amount of gpu power needed to really make this game shine using Index res is extremely high, probably about twice the gpu power of 2080 Ti (or more). Also the Index and Reverb will show you everything - and hide nothing - increasing the need for antialiasing, so higher res isn't the only concern when adding more pixels to a hmd. In Arizona Sunshine I can suddenly see all the bad (semi-low-res) textures and jaggies, while the CV1's SDE made a great cover-up, lol.   
TAA for example looks awesome using the CV1 in Lone Echo, and I could disable MSAA with no problem. Not so using Index - here TAA looks super-blurry and completely destroys the game, and suddenly I need MSAA for the jaggies. Problem is that TAA doesn't require much gpu power, while (4x)MSAA requires tons of gpu power, and even using high levels of ss MSAA still helps a lot, double-sigh. Now, Lone Echo in Index ss 200% + 4xMSAA looks beyond amazing (I could clearly see the very small/semi-microscopic eye lashes below Olivia's eyes, never noticed these in the CV1), but I get like 20 fps, sigh. Not sure Reverb is doing much better - and I think that's close to the main reason why Oculus isn't going to make a super-high-res hmd in the near future... So far the eye tracking in Vive Pro Eye didn't seem to lower gpu requirements much, not sure if eye tracking will be the gpu savior I hoped for - but I still have hope  o:)  

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Anonymous
Not applicable

kevinw729 said:

Its interesting to consider that Samsung monopolises the panel business -...
Talking in general here - not at you kevin for say~

 Samsung and a few others do support up to 4k and experimental 8k screens - so we still do have room to keep going in. The problem at the time was both a video card shortage and a video card price hike that really set back the reality of what VR can still move forward smoothly. Also, AMD didn't help releasing something a subpar cards either in both RT, VSR, and etc. that set us back as well.

On a side note - 4k and 8k have yield issues at their sizes. Meaning, you will want a big market to sell to to get the most bang for your buck. So you are not wrong in terms of needing a market for sure to keep going forward with higher end screens. I mean, look at the yield issues we currently see with reports on the forum. Small amount of users having issues for sure, but every bad screen is just one more cost Samsung or Oculus has to cover from their own profits.

In the up coming years though - we should see VR hardware make a come back though as both AMD is working on bring these features to their next line up cards and with the new RNDA keeping prices lower with scale (look at the 5700XT vs 2070 S offering - $400 vs $700). 

The problem is as we saw and talk about before is that to run these screens it still requires a top end card - so VR really needs a way out so it can scale as well and that is where VSR and eye tracking shines the best in. Even with out ET - VSR + static FOVA is more than enough to lower performance requirements by 10-15% just in a software method. Even on top of that - looks like AMD force NV hand by creating a new method different from DLSS to help upscale the image without the FPS drop that comes with it with only a few small artifacts. 

Funny enough a lot of this is coming to consoles first as AMD is release RT and possible VSR for them and thus support from game devs should follow up to PC once they get a bit more time on the AMD/Console hardware next year. I wouldn't be surprise to see Sony, Oculus, and Pixmax jump on this by late 2020 early 2021. HTC and Vavle will release addons I am sure to support it later on as well (Pimax will be an addon as well - but they are already showing it off so I wouldn't put it past them to just ingratiate it for another headset release).

Anonymous
Not applicable

RuneSR2 said:

ISo far the eye tracking in Vive Pro Eye didn't seem to lower gpu requirements much, not sure if eye tracking will be the gpu savior I hoped for - but I still have hope  o:)  


Interesting - the numbers some of the early devs reported was in the 20-35% range. That seems like a lot to me just using FOVA methods and not FSR along with it. I guess - to what end would be the question if adding eye tracking increase the headset cost more than the value gain.

kevinw729
Honored Visionary

Mradr said:
......
Talking in general here - not at you kevin for say~

 Samsung and a few others do support up to 4k and experimental 8k screens - so we still do have room to keep going in.
.......
Also, AMD didn't help releasing something a subpar cards either in both RT, VSR, and etc. that set us back as well.
.......



Understand @Mradr - and again in general terms.

Yes all the panel manufacturers showed varying 4k and even 8k capabilities - we covered this in our IFA and CES reporting. But again, these need major fab set-ups to move from the bench to the box - and there is no real interest to place these in headsets at this point. 

Funny enough there is a new tech-industry on the horizon that needs 4k panels, and is not linked to previous issues - but is fresh and new. I think at CES 2020 we will see the first deployments there - and I expect to hear a lot in the VR community crying "...hey why are we not getting these panels!!"

I totally agree about the "Power" issues with more high-performance VR headsets. Even Valve hinted that they had throttled back the capabilities of the Index design to suit a benchmark able to accommodate a wider audience demographics, rather than going full "prosumer". This is a factor why the new high-performance Pimax RE (image) is targeted squarely at Enterprise - why many of the reviewers could not see all the elements promised from the headset on their consumer unit. 

This kinda leads to the growing gulf of what the consumer VR journey started, and how long it can be part of the ride moving forward - I think a number of the community are seeing the gulf grow between what they want to see next, and what the consumer sector can present. The best example being that everyone wants eye-tracking, but its only Enterprise that has it available now.

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https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

SkScotchegg
Expert Trustee
I reckon if Oculus sold a new Rift now with better screens and resolution it would 100% out sell Rift S for sure. 

If they could meet or exceed anything else on the market right now it would 100% outsell them too.

So I agree with RedRizia, they should definitely do this and I don't understand why they haven't done it already.

They have already released CV1, GO, Rift S, Quest, now they need to focus on high end again and give us what we we want.
UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!

kevinw729
Honored Visionary


I reckon if Oculus sold a new Rift now with better screens and resolution it would 100% out sell Rift S for sure. 
......



I think that a good portion of the high-end PC VR community - including those that have not made the jump to Index or compromised with Rift-S - would buy a more powerful CV1.2 style system  @SkScotchegg. 

I would envisage a CV1.2 being the Half-Dome as promised; with eye-tracking, and in a ideal scenario a cross-over tracking solution (supporting both Constellation and Inside-Out), if we are going to play the "perfect storm" then also include a smoothing of the Valve feud towards also supporting both Touch and Knuckles - lets go wild and include a open platform, USB-C and 5G support, just for good measure!

And with that flight of fantasy you suddenly realise how far we have yet to travel, and how private eco-systems really do add up to the reason why advancement seems to be on a hiatus - but there is always the possibility of big announcements at OC6 ! [fingers-crossed]




https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

Anonymous
Not applicable
Isn't that basically what the HTC Cosmos is? A HMD with better specs at a higher price point?

Anonymous
Not applicable

RedRizla said:

@Mradr - While I respect you opinion did you read what I said? HP said their was high demand for their headset and the HP doesn't have eye tracking and can be used using a Geforce 1080i. If there's high demand for something it means people want it. Why does someone with a higher end Graphics card want to bother with the low resolution of Rift S that mainly caters for graphics card starting with the Geforce 1060?
The only reason you would want Rift S and not something higher with a higher resolution is if you have a Geforce 1060 or Geforce 1080. You can even use the Valve index with a Geforce 1080 and that doesn't have eye tracking either.



There's not much difference between the Rift S and the Index and Vive Pro in terms of resolution. In fact in some ways the Rift S is better because you can super sample a 1440p 80Hz display more than a 1600p 90/120/144Hz display and of course you have the added bonus of ASW 2.0 too.

As for why they and others haven't gone for 2K+ resolution displays it simply comes down to economics. Until foveated rendering is available we're not going to see headset manufacturers producing 2K+ resolution headsets because there's only a minority of people with PCs capable of running them.

When the CV2 is released in 2022 I can see it being a 4K headset with a 140° FOV with eye tracking and foveated rendering, and even then we'll probably see the current Recommended Specs being the new Minimum Specs.