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Why I'm no longer jealous of the index. And why the index really isn't 2nd gen.

inovator
Consultant
I was hoping that the index would be as good as the beginning hype because competition is good and it benefits vr. I wish the index blew away the rift s in every way because again competition helps vr advance. I wanted to use my rift s for a while and I wanted the index to be out long enough to form an opinion. Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected. I respect anyone's opinion that say otherwise. But when I read and see reviews of people that say things like well any game that has a great use of the analog stick the rift s controllers are much  better and tech numbers dictate for a higher resolution but those tech numbers go towards creating a wider fov so you see very little difference res wise between the index and rift s. And I'm very happy with the s tracking. I'm disappointed in how the index came out. I really don't feel it's a true 2nd gen. Headset.I would rather the index blown the rift away with the above to advance vr
 Maybe next time.
82 REPLIES 82

Evileyes
Rising Star


1.  Resolution doesn't really come into play as the majority of VR dedicated titles aren't high-res anyways--and that is the only reason I play VR.  I want the complete experience.  I don't play VR to sit on the couch with a controller in my hand.

2.  It's not an all in one package.  You have to buy the controllers and base stations separately.  I have a problem, just on principal when a company does something like this--in the hopes of hooking that user that doesn't do their homework and then realizes they need to spend another several hundred dollars in order to just simply use the device.

3.  I didn't see any reviews that said the tracking on the Index was any better than the Rift-S or provided any real in game advantages.  So for a third of the price of the Index--by the time you buy controllers and base stations--I could own the Rift-S

The Index, again, without any personal experience, is extremely overpriced in today's market with little to know advantages over the Rift-S.


You have a keen eye. You are spot on, with every point you make, especially point #2. Well done.
i9 10900k @ 5200Mhz, 32GB ram, EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra
Need a Tesla? Here is a free 1000 miles in supercharging!
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ShocksVR
Superstar
Valve Index:  25% better for 2.5x the price of the Rift S
i7-7700k, Zotac RTX 3080 AMP Holo (10G), QuestPro, Quest 2
Previous: Oculus GO, Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale, Oculus Rift S

MowTin
Expert Trustee

inovator said:

I was hoping that the index would be as good as the beginning hype because competition is good and it benefits vr. I wish the index blew away the rift s in every way because again competition helps vr advance. I wanted to use my rift s for a while and I wanted the index to be out long enough to form an opinion. Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected. I respect anyone's opinion that say otherwise. But when I read and see reviews of people that say things like well any game that has a great use of the analog stick the rift s controllers are much  better and tech numbers dictate for a higher resolution but those tech numbers go towards creating a wider fov so you see very little difference res wise between the index and rift s. And I'm very happy with the s tracking. I'm disappointed in how the index came out. I really don't feel it's a true 2nd gen. Headset.I would rather the index blown the rift away with the above to advance vr
 Maybe next time.


I have both. I was initially planning to return the index if it didn't really blow away the Rift-S. Or maybe I was going to sell my Rift-S but I ended up keeping both. 

The Rift-S I keep because of it's access to Oculus Home games without the need of Revive.

The Index because it's a significantly better all around headset. The FOV, refresh rate options and amazing audio all combine to make it a much better VR headset than the Rift. 

But for the money, the Rift-S is a good choice. You have better access to software. ASW 2.0 is better than Steam VR's motion smoothing. And if you could only have one you're better off with a Rift-S. 
i7 9700k 3090 rtx   CV1, Rift-S, Index, G2

rednekcowboy77
Adventurer

MowTin said:


inovator said:

I was hoping that the index would be as good as the beginning hype because competition is good and it benefits vr. I wish the index blew away the rift s in every way because again competition helps vr advance. I wanted to use my rift s for a while and I wanted the index to be out long enough to form an opinion. Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected. I respect anyone's opinion that say otherwise. But when I read and see reviews of people that say things like well any game that has a great use of the analog stick the rift s controllers are much  better and tech numbers dictate for a higher resolution but those tech numbers go towards creating a wider fov so you see very little difference res wise between the index and rift s. And I'm very happy with the s tracking. I'm disappointed in how the index came out. I really don't feel it's a true 2nd gen. Headset.I would rather the index blown the rift away with the above to advance vr
 Maybe next time.


I have both. I was initially planning to return the index if it didn't really blow away the Rift-S. Or maybe I was going to sell my Rift-S but I ended up keeping both. 

The Rift-S I keep because of it's access to Oculus Home games without the need of Revive.

The Index because it's a significantly better all around headset. The FOV, refresh rate options and amazing audio all combine to make it a much better VR headset than the Rift. 

But for the money, the Rift-S is a good choice. You have better access to software. ASW 2.0 is better than Steam VR's motion smoothing. And if you could only have one you're better off with a Rift-S. 


Considering the bottom line--the actual cost.  Does the cost of the Index justify the advantages you list over the Rift S?

IE, in my case, the Index would cost around $1500 CAD--base price plus base stations and controllers vs $550 CAD for the Rift-S.

I'm not talking if you can or can't afford, I am plainly asking dollar for dollar is the extra almost $1000 price tag is justifiable.

inovator
Consultant

MowTin said:


inovator said:

I was hoping that the index would be as good as the beginning hype because competition is good and it benefits vr. I wish the index blew away the rift s in every way because again competition helps vr advance. I wanted to use my rift s for a while and I wanted the index to be out long enough to form an opinion. Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected. I respect anyone's opinion that say otherwise. But when I read and see reviews of people that say things like well any game that has a great use of the analog stick the rift s controllers are much  better and tech numbers dictate for a higher resolution but those tech numbers go towards creating a wider fov so you see very little difference res wise between the index and rift s. And I'm very happy with the s tracking. I'm disappointed in how the index came out. I really don't feel it's a true 2nd gen. Headset.I would rather the index blown the rift away with the above to advance vr
 Maybe next time.


I have both. I was initially planning to return the index if it didn't really blow away the Rift-S. Or maybe I was going to sell my Rift-S but I ended up keeping both. 

The Rift-S I keep because of it's access to Oculus Home games without the need of Revive.

The Index because it's a significantly better all around headset. The FOV, refresh rate options and amazing audio all combine to make it a much better VR headset than the Rift. 

But for the money, the Rift-S is a good choice. You have better access to software. ASW 2.0 is better than Steam VR's motion smoothing. And if you could only have one you're better off with a Rift-S. 


Good points that I agree with. Anger was shown at comments I made about the index taken as if I was insulting index owners. I just gave what my opinions were. I never felt the index was not worth buying for some people. I don't understand why my initial comments were taken personally by a few people. I'll be happy when a true next gen comes out. 

Zenbane
MVP
MVP

Evileyes said:

Yes, I stand by my review of the Vive as of May 2016. I was happy to have my "hands" in VR.



As you should! My point was not to invalidate your review. I am simply pointing out that in your review, you did compare it to Touch Controllers which you had not then, nor have now, actually tried. And I am pointing that out in respect to your comment here:
I wouldn't pass judgment on anything I haven't tried or thoroughly tested myself.

So, just as you felt it valid to judge Touch Controllers without ever trying them or testing them, then surely there is no problem with the OP - or anyone else - doing the same with other products. I do enjoy your opinions and passion, so again... I'm not trying to invalidate anything you're saying. I just think that we all need to be consistent in how we apply these types of standards for "rights to an opinion."


But look at it this way, would you honestly pull up a youtube review, to a reviewer who hasn't actually used the product?

The OP is not giving a review here. He is merely stating his opinion based on advertising and perception. Which is what everyone in this thread has done many a times with products that they never tried nor owned.

Zenbane
MVP
MVP

MowTin said:
The Index because it's a significantly better all around headset. The FOV, refresh rate options and amazing audio all combine to make it a much better VR headset than the Rift.



Fair points. And I think that those of us looking for a true and proper upgrade from the Rift CV1 are stuck since everything you mentioned here about the Index is only happening because... Lenovo did a damn "refresh" of the Rift instead of Oculus releasing a CV2.

Index is a good CV1, but there is a clear need for a real CV2. To me, this is the OP's main point. And I definitely agree.

MowTin
Expert Trustee

rednekcowboy77 said:

Considering the bottom line--the actual cost.  Does the cost of the Index justify the advantages you list over the Rift S?

IE, in my case, the Index would cost around $1500 CAD--base price plus base stations and controllers vs $550 CAD for the Rift-S.

I'm not talking if you can or can't afford, I am plainly asking dollar for dollar is the extra almost $1000 price tag is justifiable.



No, the Index is a luxury. It's like a pair of $1500 speakers versus a solid set of $300 speakers. The more expensive speakers are better but maybe not $1200 better. 

So it all depends on your disposable income. If you're an audiophile with plenty of money go for the best speakers. 

Also, there are other factors that affect your VR experience likee your GPU and CPU. So, it may make more sense to spend the money on a better GPU/CPU. 
i7 9700k 3090 rtx   CV1, Rift-S, Index, G2

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

MowTin said:


rednekcowboy77 said:

Considering the bottom line--the actual cost.  Does the cost of the Index justify the advantages you list over the Rift S?

IE, in my case, the Index would cost around $1500 CAD--base price plus base stations and controllers vs $550 CAD for the Rift-S.

I'm not talking if you can or can't afford, I am plainly asking dollar for dollar is the extra almost $1000 price tag is justifiable.



No, the Index is a luxury. It's like a pair of $1500 speakers versus a solid set of $300 speakers. The more expensive speakers are better but maybe not $1200 better. 

So it all depends on your disposable income. If you're an audiophile with plenty of money go for the best speakers. 

Also, there are other factors that affect your VR experience likee your GPU and CPU. So, it may make more sense to spend the money on a better GPU/CPU. 



To me it's also the question of the whole being more than the sum of the parts. How much do you need before one hmd becomes qualitatively different from another? Are new controllers enough? Is improved tracking enough? What about the sound? - The fov? The refresh rates etc. I don't think there's one size that fits all. For the display only, clearly coming from CV1 to Index will be a massive jump, while coming from Rift-S will be a smaller jump. And if you only care about the display, of course the massive price difference may not justify the Index compared to Rift-S. For those able to dial in the lenses to increase fov, who are able to push 120 Hz/fps (1:1), who care about the audio - and who like the controllers and the tracking - Index may be head and shoulders above the competition. For example I played Lucky's Tale last night - Index ss 200% (pushing 17 mill pixels per frame) with giant fov - and to me that's a dream come true, audio was extremely clear too. But for sim lovers Reverb may be better. And for casual VR players Rift-S may be better.

Fun thing, I remember everything looked perfectly using the CV1, and if I had to judge Index from memory alone I'd say it's much like the CV1, but I don't see the SDE. But I still have the CV1, and performing a reality-check by putting on the CV1 and starting the same game I just played using the Index, the difference between CV1 and Index is truly massive. But like MowTin said, Index also requires more GPU power and depending on income and the rig, Index may not be a first choice.

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

inovator
Consultant

RuneSR2 said:


MowTin said:


rednekcowboy77 said:

Considering the bottom line--the actual cost.  Does the cost of the Index justify the advantages you list over the Rift S?

IE, in my case, the Index would cost around $1500 CAD--base price plus base stations and controllers vs $550 CAD for the Rift-S.

I'm not talking if you can or can't afford, I am plainly asking dollar for dollar is the extra almost $1000 price tag is justifiable.



No, the Index is a luxury. It's like a pair of $1500 speakers versus a solid set of $300 speakers. The more expensive speakers are better but maybe not $1200 better. 

So it all depends on your disposable income. If you're an audiophile with plenty of money go for the best speakers. 

Also, there are other factors that affect your VR experience likee your GPU and CPU. So, it may make more sense to spend the money on a better GPU/CPU. 



To me it's also the question of the whole being more than the sum of the parts. How much do you need before one hmd becomes qualitatively different from another? Are new controllers enough? Is improved tracking enough? What about the sound? - The fov? The refresh rates etc. I don't think there's one size that fits all. For the display only, clearly coming from CV1 to Index will be a massive jump, while coming from Rift-S will be a smaller jump. And if you only care about the display, of course the massive price difference may not justify the Index compared to Rift-S. For those able to dial in the lenses to increase fov, who are able to push 120 Hz/fps (1:1), who care about the audio - and who like the controllers and the tracking - Index may be head and shoulders above the competition. For example I played Lucky's Tale last night - Index ss 200% (pushing 17 mill pixels per frame) with giant fov - and to me that's a dream come true, audio was extremely clear too. But for sim lovers Reverb may be better. And for casual VR players Rift-S may be better.

Fun thing, I remember everything looked perfectly using the CV1, and if I had to judge Index from memory alone I'd say it's much like the CV1, but I don't see the SDE. But I still have the CV1, and performing a reality-check by putting on the CV1 and starting the same game I just played using the Index, the difference between CV1 and Index is truly massive. But like MowTin said, Index also requires more GPU power and depending on income and the rig, Index may not be a first choice.



Dont forget, there are many non casual users like me as well where for us the rift s is better for many reasons important to us. I've been a big vr enthusiast since day one and would not consider a headset without inside out tracking and for other reasons as well.