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Why I'm no longer jealous of the index. And why the index really isn't 2nd gen.

2

Comments

  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 354
    Trinity
    inovator said:
    Your a better man than I. I wouldn't try to argue with obvious fan boys who call the index next gen and say the defective controllers are perfect. Don't waste your time with them.
    Calling me a fan boy, i'm sorry but you don't know me.

    And I call it like it is.

    And your blanket statement about the controllers is 100% bullshit from a guy who hasn't even tested the product.

    Tell you what, make a youtube video on your so called assessment, and watch how dry fucked you get in the comments section... got it? fan boy?
    i7 X5960 @ 4200Mhz, 16GB ram, EVGA 2080 ti FTW
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  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,328
    Project 2501
    RedRizla said:
    Did you miss the thread that talks about Oculus controllers having lagg problems? I see Valve index controllers working for some just like I see the Oculus controllers work for some, but not all to be fair.

    Which thread was that?

    I still have input lag too with my Rift S Touch controllers version 2.

    They can't keep up with my movements in Beat Saber/Audica when I set the difficulty to Hard/Advanced. It's really annoying.

    Do you guys think they can fix this somehow?

    Like what controls the speed of their tracking? the cameras or the software?
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,173 Valuable Player
    @SkScotchegg - Here's the link to the problems some people are having with the Oculus touch controllers. @kojack has a couple of programs he wants you to test out and give him the results of the test.

  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,426 Valuable Player
    Evileyes said:
    inovator said:
    Your a better man than I. I wouldn't try to argue with obvious fan boys who call the index next gen and say the defective controllers are perfect. Don't waste your time with them.
    Calling me a fan boy, i'm sorry but you don't know me.

    And I call it like it is.

    And your blanket statement about the controllers is 100% bullshit from a guy who hasn't even tested the product.

    Tell you what, make a youtube video on your so called assessment, and watch how dry fucked you get in the comments section... got it? fan boy?
    The more problems your having with the index the angrier you get. Lol
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,426 Valuable Player
    Anger management is the key. 
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 354
    Trinity
    Call me a "fan boy" then trip when I display animosity. gg buddy.
    i7 X5960 @ 4200Mhz, 16GB ram, EVGA 2080 ti FTW
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,614 Valuable Player
    Evileyes said:
    Call me a "fan boy" then trip when I display animosity. gg buddy.
    Trying to tell the blind what's it like being able to see is a great task, I wouldn't waste my energy trying to do so. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,173 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Seems my first post in this thread about arguments is coming true :)
  • rednekcowboy77rednekcowboy77 Posts: 168
    Art3mis
    edited September 2019
    inovator said:
    I was hoping that the index would be as good as the beginning hype because competition is good and it benefits vr. I wish the index blew away the rift s in every way because again competition helps vr advance. I wanted to use my rift s for a while and I wanted the index to be out long enough to form an opinion. Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected. I respect anyone's opinion that say otherwise. But when I read and see reviews of people that say things like well any game that has a great use of the analog stick the rift s controllers are much  better and tech numbers dictate for a higher resolution but those tech numbers go towards creating a wider fov so you see very little difference res wise between the index and rift s. And I'm very happy with the s tracking. I'm disappointed in how the index came out. I really don't feel it's a true 2nd gen. Headset.I would rather the index blown the rift away with the above to advance vr
     Maybe next time.
    While I won't bash on the Index simply because I haven't personally tried it--the price tag alone--combined with reviews I read simply made it an absolute no-go for me for the following reasons:

    1.  Resolution doesn't really come into play as the majority of VR dedicated titles aren't high-res anyways--and that is the only reason I play VR.  I want the complete experience.  I don't play VR to sit on the couch with a controller in my hand.

    2.  It's not an all in one package.  You have to buy the controllers and base stations separately.  I have a problem, just on principal when a company does something like this--in the hopes of hooking that user that doesn't do their homework and then realizes they need to spend another several hundred dollars in order to just simply use the device.

    3.  I didn't see any reviews that said the tracking on the Index was any better than the Rift-S or provided any real in game advantages.  So for a third of the price of the Index--by the time you buy controllers and base stations--I could own the Rift-S

    The Index, again, without any personal experience, is extremely overpriced in today's market with little to know advantages over the Rift-S.

    Now if we are talking the original Vive vs the original Rift--I have owned both and have a vastly different opinion--though there isn't much point in discussing that now but at the time I owned both, the Vive was the better investment by far for my personal setup as the Rift was nothing but extra purchases continuously in order to get a functional setup and ended up costing me way more $$$'s in "hidden" costs over and above the base purchase price.  However, I have quite a large playing space compared to most--though the Vive had 0 issues with that with it's base setup.

    Oculus has come a long way with the Rift-S.
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 354
    Trinity
    edited September 2019

    1.  Resolution doesn't really come into play as the majority of VR dedicated titles aren't high-res anyways--and that is the only reason I play VR.  I want the complete experience.  I don't play VR to sit on the couch with a controller in my hand.

    2.  It's not an all in one package.  You have to buy the controllers and base stations separately.  I have a problem, just on principal when a company does something like this--in the hopes of hooking that user that doesn't do their homework and then realizes they need to spend another several hundred dollars in order to just simply use the device.

    3.  I didn't see any reviews that said the tracking on the Index was any better than the Rift-S or provided any real in game advantages.  So for a third of the price of the Index--by the time you buy controllers and base stations--I could own the Rift-S

    The Index, again, without any personal experience, is extremely overpriced in today's market with little to know advantages over the Rift-S.


    You have a keen eye. You are spot on, with every point you make, especially point #2. Well done.
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  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 500
    Neo
    edited September 2019
    Valve Index:  25% better for 2.5x the price of the Rift S
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  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,916 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    inovator said:
    I was hoping that the index would be as good as the beginning hype because competition is good and it benefits vr. I wish the index blew away the rift s in every way because again competition helps vr advance. I wanted to use my rift s for a while and I wanted the index to be out long enough to form an opinion. Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected. I respect anyone's opinion that say otherwise. But when I read and see reviews of people that say things like well any game that has a great use of the analog stick the rift s controllers are much  better and tech numbers dictate for a higher resolution but those tech numbers go towards creating a wider fov so you see very little difference res wise between the index and rift s. And I'm very happy with the s tracking. I'm disappointed in how the index came out. I really don't feel it's a true 2nd gen. Headset.I would rather the index blown the rift away with the above to advance vr
     Maybe next time.
    I have both. I was initially planning to return the index if it didn't really blow away the Rift-S. Or maybe I was going to sell my Rift-S but I ended up keeping both. 

    The Rift-S I keep because of it's access to Oculus Home games without the need of Revive.

    The Index because it's a significantly better all around headset. The FOV, refresh rate options and amazing audio all combine to make it a much better VR headset than the Rift. 

    But for the money, the Rift-S is a good choice. You have better access to software. ASW 2.0 is better than Steam VR's motion smoothing. And if you could only have one you're better off with a Rift-S. 
    i7 9700k 2080ti   CV1, Rift-S, Index
  • rednekcowboy77rednekcowboy77 Posts: 168
    Art3mis
    edited September 2019
    MowTin said:
    inovator said:
    I was hoping that the index would be as good as the beginning hype because competition is good and it benefits vr. I wish the index blew away the rift s in every way because again competition helps vr advance. I wanted to use my rift s for a while and I wanted the index to be out long enough to form an opinion. Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected. I respect anyone's opinion that say otherwise. But when I read and see reviews of people that say things like well any game that has a great use of the analog stick the rift s controllers are much  better and tech numbers dictate for a higher resolution but those tech numbers go towards creating a wider fov so you see very little difference res wise between the index and rift s. And I'm very happy with the s tracking. I'm disappointed in how the index came out. I really don't feel it's a true 2nd gen. Headset.I would rather the index blown the rift away with the above to advance vr
     Maybe next time.
    I have both. I was initially planning to return the index if it didn't really blow away the Rift-S. Or maybe I was going to sell my Rift-S but I ended up keeping both. 

    The Rift-S I keep because of it's access to Oculus Home games without the need of Revive.

    The Index because it's a significantly better all around headset. The FOV, refresh rate options and amazing audio all combine to make it a much better VR headset than the Rift. 

    But for the money, the Rift-S is a good choice. You have better access to software. ASW 2.0 is better than Steam VR's motion smoothing. And if you could only have one you're better off with a Rift-S. 
    Considering the bottom line--the actual cost.  Does the cost of the Index justify the advantages you list over the Rift S?

    IE, in my case, the Index would cost around $1500 CAD--base price plus base stations and controllers vs $550 CAD for the Rift-S.

    I'm not talking if you can or can't afford, I am plainly asking dollar for dollar is the extra almost $1000 price tag is justifiable.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,426 Valuable Player
    MowTin said:
    inovator said:
    I was hoping that the index would be as good as the beginning hype because competition is good and it benefits vr. I wish the index blew away the rift s in every way because again competition helps vr advance. I wanted to use my rift s for a while and I wanted the index to be out long enough to form an opinion. Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected. I respect anyone's opinion that say otherwise. But when I read and see reviews of people that say things like well any game that has a great use of the analog stick the rift s controllers are much  better and tech numbers dictate for a higher resolution but those tech numbers go towards creating a wider fov so you see very little difference res wise between the index and rift s. And I'm very happy with the s tracking. I'm disappointed in how the index came out. I really don't feel it's a true 2nd gen. Headset.I would rather the index blown the rift away with the above to advance vr
     Maybe next time.
    I have both. I was initially planning to return the index if it didn't really blow away the Rift-S. Or maybe I was going to sell my Rift-S but I ended up keeping both. 

    The Rift-S I keep because of it's access to Oculus Home games without the need of Revive.

    The Index because it's a significantly better all around headset. The FOV, refresh rate options and amazing audio all combine to make it a much better VR headset than the Rift. 

    But for the money, the Rift-S is a good choice. You have better access to software. ASW 2.0 is better than Steam VR's motion smoothing. And if you could only have one you're better off with a Rift-S. 
    Good points that I agree with. Anger was shown at comments I made about the index taken as if I was insulting index owners. I just gave what my opinions were. I never felt the index was not worth buying for some people. I don't understand why my initial comments were taken personally by a few people. I'll be happy when a true next gen comes out. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,484 Valuable Player
    Evileyes said:
    Yes, I stand by my review of the Vive as of May 2016. I was happy to have my "hands" in VR.

    As you should! My point was not to invalidate your review. I am simply pointing out that in your review, you did compare it to Touch Controllers which you had not then, nor have now, actually tried. And I am pointing that out in respect to your comment here:
    I wouldn't pass judgment on anything I haven't tried or thoroughly tested myself.

    So, just as you felt it valid to judge Touch Controllers without ever trying them or testing them, then surely there is no problem with the OP - or anyone else - doing the same with other products. I do enjoy your opinions and passion, so again... I'm not trying to invalidate anything you're saying. I just think that we all need to be consistent in how we apply these types of standards for "rights to an opinion."


    But look at it this way, would you honestly pull up a youtube review, to a reviewer who hasn't actually used the product?

    The OP is not giving a review here. He is merely stating his opinion based on advertising and perception. Which is what everyone in this thread has done many a times with products that they never tried nor owned.

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,484 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    MowTin said:
    The Index because it's a significantly better all around headset. The FOV, refresh rate options and amazing audio all combine to make it a much better VR headset than the Rift.

    Fair points. And I think that those of us looking for a true and proper upgrade from the Rift CV1 are stuck since everything you mentioned here about the Index is only happening because... Lenovo did a damn "refresh" of the Rift instead of Oculus releasing a CV2.

    Index is a good CV1, but there is a clear need for a real CV2. To me, this is the OP's main point. And I definitely agree.
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  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,916 Valuable Player
    rednekcowboy77 said:

    Considering the bottom line--the actual cost.  Does the cost of the Index justify the advantages you list over the Rift S?

    IE, in my case, the Index would cost around $1500 CAD--base price plus base stations and controllers vs $550 CAD for the Rift-S.

    I'm not talking if you can or can't afford, I am plainly asking dollar for dollar is the extra almost $1000 price tag is justifiable.

    No, the Index is a luxury. It's like a pair of $1500 speakers versus a solid set of $300 speakers. The more expensive speakers are better but maybe not $1200 better. 

    So it all depends on your disposable income. If you're an audiophile with plenty of money go for the best speakers. 

    Also, there are other factors that affect your VR experience likee your GPU and CPU. So, it may make more sense to spend the money on a better GPU/CPU. 
    i7 9700k 2080ti   CV1, Rift-S, Index
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,614 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    MowTin said:
    rednekcowboy77 said:

    Considering the bottom line--the actual cost.  Does the cost of the Index justify the advantages you list over the Rift S?

    IE, in my case, the Index would cost around $1500 CAD--base price plus base stations and controllers vs $550 CAD for the Rift-S.

    I'm not talking if you can or can't afford, I am plainly asking dollar for dollar is the extra almost $1000 price tag is justifiable.

    No, the Index is a luxury. It's like a pair of $1500 speakers versus a solid set of $300 speakers. The more expensive speakers are better but maybe not $1200 better. 

    So it all depends on your disposable income. If you're an audiophile with plenty of money go for the best speakers. 

    Also, there are other factors that affect your VR experience likee your GPU and CPU. So, it may make more sense to spend the money on a better GPU/CPU. 


    To me it's also the question of the whole being more than the sum of the parts. How much do you need before one hmd becomes qualitatively different from another? Are new controllers enough? Is improved tracking enough? What about the sound? - The fov? The refresh rates etc. I don't think there's one size that fits all. For the display only, clearly coming from CV1 to Index will be a massive jump, while coming from Rift-S will be a smaller jump. And if you only care about the display, of course the massive price difference may not justify the Index compared to Rift-S. For those able to dial in the lenses to increase fov, who are able to push 120 Hz/fps (1:1), who care about the audio - and who like the controllers and the tracking - Index may be head and shoulders above the competition. For example I played Lucky's Tale last night - Index ss 200% (pushing 17 mill pixels per frame) with giant fov - and to me that's a dream come true, audio was extremely clear too. But for sim lovers Reverb may be better. And for casual VR players Rift-S may be better.

    Fun thing, I remember everything looked perfectly using the CV1, and if I had to judge Index from memory alone I'd say it's much like the CV1, but I don't see the SDE. But I still have the CV1, and performing a reality-check by putting on the CV1 and starting the same game I just played using the Index, the difference between CV1 and Index is truly massive. But like MowTin said, Index also requires more GPU power and depending on income and the rig, Index may not be a first choice.

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,426 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    MowTin said:
    rednekcowboy77 said:

    Considering the bottom line--the actual cost.  Does the cost of the Index justify the advantages you list over the Rift S?

    IE, in my case, the Index would cost around $1500 CAD--base price plus base stations and controllers vs $550 CAD for the Rift-S.

    I'm not talking if you can or can't afford, I am plainly asking dollar for dollar is the extra almost $1000 price tag is justifiable.

    No, the Index is a luxury. It's like a pair of $1500 speakers versus a solid set of $300 speakers. The more expensive speakers are better but maybe not $1200 better. 

    So it all depends on your disposable income. If you're an audiophile with plenty of money go for the best speakers. 

    Also, there are other factors that affect your VR experience likee your GPU and CPU. So, it may make more sense to spend the money on a better GPU/CPU. 


    To me it's also the question of the whole being more than the sum of the parts. How much do you need before one hmd becomes qualitatively different from another? Are new controllers enough? Is improved tracking enough? What about the sound? - The fov? The refresh rates etc. I don't think there's one size that fits all. For the display only, clearly coming from CV1 to Index will be a massive jump, while coming from Rift-S will be a smaller jump. And if you only care about the display, of course the massive price difference may not justify the Index compared to Rift-S. For those able to dial in the lenses to increase fov, who are able to push 120 Hz/fps (1:1), who care about the audio - and who like the controllers and the tracking - Index may be head and shoulders above the competition. For example I played Lucky's Tale last night - Index ss 200% (pushing 17 mill pixels per frame) with giant fov - and to me that's a dream come true, audio was extremely clear too. But for sim lovers Reverb may be better. And for casual VR players Rift-S may be better.

    Fun thing, I remember everything looked perfectly using the CV1, and if I had to judge Index from memory alone I'd say it's much like the CV1, but I don't see the SDE. But I still have the CV1, and performing a reality-check by putting on the CV1 and starting the same game I just played using the Index, the difference between CV1 and Index is truly massive. But like MowTin said, Index also requires more GPU power and depending on income and the rig, Index may not be a first choice.

    Dont forget, there are many non casual users like me as well where for us the rift s is better for many reasons important to us. I've been a big vr enthusiast since day one and would not consider a headset without inside out tracking and for other reasons as well.
  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,674 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    MowTin said:
    rednekcowboy77 said:

    Considering the bottom line--the actual cost.  Does the cost of the Index justify the advantages you list over the Rift S?

    IE, in my case, the Index would cost around $1500 CAD--base price plus base stations and controllers vs $550 CAD for the Rift-S.

    I'm not talking if you can or can't afford, I am plainly asking dollar for dollar is the extra almost $1000 price tag is justifiable.

    No, the Index is a luxury. It's like a pair of $1500 speakers versus a solid set of $300 speakers. The more expensive speakers are better but maybe not $1200 better. 

    So it all depends on your disposable income. If you're an audiophile with plenty of money go for the best speakers. 

    Also, there are other factors that affect your VR experience likee your GPU and CPU. So, it may make more sense to spend the money on a better GPU/CPU. 


    To me it's also the question of the whole being more than the sum of the parts. How much do you need before one hmd becomes qualitatively different from another? Are new controllers enough? Is improved tracking enough? What about the sound? - The fov? The refresh rates etc. I don't think there's one size that fits all. For the display only, clearly coming from CV1 to Index will be a massive jump, while coming from Rift-S will be a smaller jump. And if you only care about the display, of course the massive price difference may not justify the Index compared to Rift-S. For those able to dial in the lenses to increase fov, who are able to push 120 Hz/fps (1:1), who care about the audio - and who like the controllers and the tracking - Index may be head and shoulders above the competition. For example I played Lucky's Tale last night - Index ss 200% (pushing 17 mill pixels per frame) with giant fov - and to me that's a dream come true, audio was extremely clear too. But for sim lovers Reverb may be better. And for casual VR players Rift-S may be better.

    Fun thing, I remember everything looked perfectly using the CV1, and if I had to judge Index from memory alone I'd say it's much like the CV1, but I don't see the SDE. But I still have the CV1, and performing a reality-check by putting on the CV1 and starting the same game I just played using the Index, the difference between CV1 and Index is truly massive. But like MowTin said, Index also requires more GPU power and depending on income and the rig, Index may not be a first choice.

    Dont forget, there are many non casual users like me as well where for us the rift s is better for many reasons important to us. I've been a big vr enthusiast since day one and would not consider a headset without inside out tracking and for other reasons as well.
    Agree I am quite happy with my Rift S.
    Don

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,614 Valuable Player
    dburne said:
    inovator said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    MowTin said:
    rednekcowboy77 said:

    Considering the bottom line--the actual cost.  Does the cost of the Index justify the advantages you list over the Rift S?

    IE, in my case, the Index would cost around $1500 CAD--base price plus base stations and controllers vs $550 CAD for the Rift-S.

    I'm not talking if you can or can't afford, I am plainly asking dollar for dollar is the extra almost $1000 price tag is justifiable.

    No, the Index is a luxury. It's like a pair of $1500 speakers versus a solid set of $300 speakers. The more expensive speakers are better but maybe not $1200 better. 

    So it all depends on your disposable income. If you're an audiophile with plenty of money go for the best speakers. 

    Also, there are other factors that affect your VR experience likee your GPU and CPU. So, it may make more sense to spend the money on a better GPU/CPU. 


    To me it's also the question of the whole being more than the sum of the parts. How much do you need before one hmd becomes qualitatively different from another? Are new controllers enough? Is improved tracking enough? What about the sound? - The fov? The refresh rates etc. I don't think there's one size that fits all. For the display only, clearly coming from CV1 to Index will be a massive jump, while coming from Rift-S will be a smaller jump. And if you only care about the display, of course the massive price difference may not justify the Index compared to Rift-S. For those able to dial in the lenses to increase fov, who are able to push 120 Hz/fps (1:1), who care about the audio - and who like the controllers and the tracking - Index may be head and shoulders above the competition. For example I played Lucky's Tale last night - Index ss 200% (pushing 17 mill pixels per frame) with giant fov - and to me that's a dream come true, audio was extremely clear too. But for sim lovers Reverb may be better. And for casual VR players Rift-S may be better.

    Fun thing, I remember everything looked perfectly using the CV1, and if I had to judge Index from memory alone I'd say it's much like the CV1, but I don't see the SDE. But I still have the CV1, and performing a reality-check by putting on the CV1 and starting the same game I just played using the Index, the difference between CV1 and Index is truly massive. But like MowTin said, Index also requires more GPU power and depending on income and the rig, Index may not be a first choice.

    Dont forget, there are many non casual users like me as well where for us the rift s is better for many reasons important to us. I've been a big vr enthusiast since day one and would not consider a headset without inside out tracking and for other reasons as well.
    Agree I am quite happy with my Rift S.
    That's a good point - no need to worry about other hmds if you truly like the one you have.  
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,484 Valuable Player
    There's too much worry about other people's opinions about HMD's, than the HMD's themselves lol
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  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 825
    3Jane
    Zenbane said:
    inovator said:
    Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected.

    While the "try before you formulate an opinion" argument has some merit, it does get over-used as an auto-win button.

    Well said. Forming an opinion from what we read is completely legitimate. If not, what is the point of reviews in the first place? I certainly won't feel obligated to buy everything first, and then come to a 'more respected' opinion. That's kind of the whole point to reviews, so we don't waste our money. It's just up to the reader to sift through crybaby bullshit.
  • EhnvayneEhnvayne Posts: 1
    NerveGear
    TL:DR = Rift S is like an excellent point and shoot camera that takes great pictures easily. The Index is an SLR Camera that will give you great results - if you put the effort into dialing the settings in and have the right equipment to use it. Valve needs a lot more content designed for Knuckles.

    I own the Rift and Rift S. For a few days, I owned the Index also. I sent the Index back today because for me, the $999 could be better spent elsewhere.

    The Index's build quality is second to none and the HMD speakers are fantastic - they blow the Rift S speakers away. I agree totally with an earlier post that the magnetic facial interface is genius. The lighthouse 2.0 tracking was nearly flawless for my time with it. The field of view is greater than any Oculus HMD - but didn't seem like a huge leap up to me. The headset is heavier than the Rift S but still very comfortable. While I prefer the Oculus touch controllers to the Knuckles, I believe the Knuckles will eventually become the superior interface in content designed from the ground up for them. I noticed while using the Index that the lenses generate more glare and god-rays vs the Rift S but this can be reduced if you take the time to properly fit and adjust it.

    The Index was designed as a luxury piece of technology for individuals who have top of the line gaming rigs. If you're playing with high graphics settings in VR content, you need to have either a 2080 Super or 2080 Ti paired with an i9 9900k to really see the frame rates it can generate shine. I paired it with a 1080 Ti and an i7 7700k @5Ghz which wasn't enough to run it at 120hz with maxed out settings in games. If I was prepared to shell out an additional $2000 to upgrade my CPU\GPU, if I spent far more time in VR and if Valve had more content designed for the Knuckles controllers - I would have kept it.

    For now, my rig can drive the Rift S and it's exclusive content at max settings on release day without any revive glitches or controller mapping weirdness. I'll be putting that $999 refund into a new CPU and Motherboard hoping that Oculus will eventually catch up or leap frog Valve. If they don't, I'm knocking on Valves door again once I have my upgrades out of the way.


  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,426 Valuable Player
    Nice review. 
  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 500
    Neo
    edited September 2019
    jayhawk said:
    Zenbane said:
    inovator said:
    Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected.

    While the "try before you formulate an opinion" argument has some merit, it does get over-used as an auto-win button.

    Well said. Forming an opinion from what we read is completely legitimate. If not, what is the point of reviews in the first place? I certainly won't feel obligated to buy everything first, and then come to a 'more respected' opinion. That's kind of the whole point to reviews, so we don't waste our money. It's just up to the reader to sift through crybaby bullshit.
    The reverse is also true.  Sometimes trying a product while it has launch day issues and glitches can form a negative view of it, even after the glitches are fixed.  We saw this with the Rift-S and the rocky launch with the display flashes, tracking issues, setup issues. 

    Now we have ppl on the "internets" giving their experience with the Rift S (which is a legitimate experience), but many of these "issues" have been addressed or greatly diminished.  To this day, I still see those talking about Rift S issues in the "present tense", when it should be in the "past tense"; all because "they've tried the Rift S".

    Similar thing happened with the Rift CV1. It launched without true Roomscale support. Roomscale support was added 9 months later on January 2017; but the myth that Rift CV1 couldn't do roomscale still permeated for years.

    I paired it with a 1080 Ti and an i7 7700k @5Ghz which wasn't enough to run it at 120hz with maxed out settings in games.
    Dang! Those are my specs which I would think are still fairly up there.

    i7-7700k, GTX 1080Ti (11G) || MSI B150m (1 USB controller) + Inateck 4-port USB to PCIe (2nd USB controller)
    Oculus Rift S
    Oculus GO
    Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,426 Valuable Player
    jayhawk said:
    Zenbane said:
    inovator said:
    Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected.

    While the "try before you formulate an opinion" argument has some merit, it does get over-used as an auto-win button.

    Well said. Forming an opinion from what we read is completely legitimate. If not, what is the point of reviews in the first place? I certainly won't feel obligated to buy everything first, and then come to a 'more respected' opinion. That's kind of the whole point to reviews, so we don't waste our money. It's just up to the reader to sift through crybaby bullshit.
    The reverse is also true.  Sometimes trying a product while it has launch day issues and glitches can form a negative view of it, even after the glitches are fixed.  We saw this with the Rift-S and the rocky launch with the display flashes, tracking issues, setup issues. 

    Now we have ppl on the "internets" giving their experience with the Rift S (which is a legitimate experience), but many of these "issues" have been addressed or greatly diminished.  To this day, I still see those talking about Rift S issues in the "present tense", when it should be in the "past tense"; all because "they've tried the Rift S".

    Similar thing happened with the Rift CV1. It launched without true Roomscale support. Roomscale support was added 9 months later on January 2017; but the myth that Rift CV1 couldn't do roomscale still permeated for years.

    I paired it with a 1080 Ti and an i7 7700k @5Ghz which wasn't enough to run it at 120hz with maxed out settings in games.
    Dang! Those are my specs which I would think are still fairly up there.

    Exactly.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,614 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019

    I paired it with a 1080 Ti and an i7 7700k @5Ghz which wasn't enough to run it at 120hz with maxed out settings in games.
    Dang! Those are my specs which I would think are still fairly up there.

    Your specs are indeed up there - 1080 Ti is exactly same speed as 2080 (non-Ti), you can easily run the Index in 90 Hz in almost any game without ever going below 90 fps. 120 Hz will work just fine in less demanding games if you don't push ss a lot. One must remember that Index res is close to 100% above the CV1, so just running Index at ss 100% in Steam is a lot more demanding than using CV1 ss 100% in Steam (and then it's important to remember that Steam ss 100 % isn't ss 1.0, but 1.4). In fact SteamVR Home autoscales to ss 302% on my rig - I don't have performance problems in 90 Hz at all - in fact ss 100% using Index looks better and is much less taxing than using ss 2.0 for the CV1 (which I've done for years).  
    I have many games like Thumper, Vacation Simulator, Angry Birds, Lucky's Tale  etc that work perfectly using Index ss 200% - and I like ss more than fps, so I'm mostly using 90 Hz. And fov is free. 

    I think 120 Hz and especially 144 Hz start with the 2080 Ti if you want to use it in all games (ss 100%).

    Index 144 fps in 144Hz using ss 200% is another dream of mine - Index may indeed have a long future ahead and live to see many new generations of video cards before reaching its full potential.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,173 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019

    The reverse is also true.  Sometimes trying a product while it has launch day issues and glitches can form a negative view of it, even after the glitches are fixed.  We saw this with the Rift-S and the rocky launch with the display flashes, tracking issues, setup issues. 

    Now we have ppl on the "internets" giving their experience with the Rift S (which is a legitimate experience), but many of these "issues" have been addressed or greatly diminished.  To this day, I still see those talking about Rift S issues in the "present tense", when it should be in the "past tense"; all because "they've tried the Rift S".

    Similar thing happened with the Rift CV1. It launched without true Roomscale support. Roomscale support was added 9 months later on January 2017; but the myth that Rift CV1 couldn't do roomscale still permeated for years.

    I paired it with a 1080 Ti and an i7 7700k @5Ghz which wasn't enough to run it at 120hz with maxed out settings in games.
    Dang! Those are my specs which I would think are still fairly up there.

    That's because for some people first impressions have lasting effects. I was one of the people who had problems with tracking in Rift S, but some people made out that the tracking was fine and we just had to adapt to it or game devs had to change their games. Oculus ended up fixing the tracking though, which just showed that the tracking was not good after all. That's why I decided to not take reviews to seriously, because some people can say somethings alright when in fact it needs fixing.
    I don't see many people still talking about problems that no-longer exist in the Rift S. I know the static flash was a big thing, but I don't see that talked about now. I prefer to test things myself now and form my own opinion whether like it or not, but I appreciate some will just go by the reviews and what others have to say.
  • namangargnamangarg Posts: 1
    NerveGear
    hello guys,

    thanks for this information because this is very helpfull for me . and i this platform will help me in many ways .
    ok guys thanks to u all . 

    thanks
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