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Were the critics right: Is VR just a Fad/Gimmick?

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,483 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Undecided

    An Interview with Oculus' Jason Rubin was released today, and it hits on some of the things I have mentioned. Good timing! lol

    the VR business feels like it’s ready to begin
    putting more effort into games that don’t require high-end visuals and games that appeal to broader demographics.

    Oculus’ Studios publishing group has been shifting from what Rubin used to call an “unpublisher” that would “seed money to whoever had an idea and see what stuck” into an organization that takes bigger bets and is more cautious, similar to a traditional console or PC publisher.

    Mix in a strategy of targeting “global, top-tier IP,” a plan to sign continually larger projects that will eventually reach the budgets of AAA console games, a focus on mixed reality streaming and new types of social experiences, and Oculus sees a path to get more customers in the door.



    But the quotes above really align with the concerns I tried to raise in this conversation. If Rubin feels that now, after all these years, that the VR business is ready to begin... then that explains why even in 2019 critics are still asking the same questions about VR being a fad or gimmick.

    Early in this conversation, I rejected the notion that the answer to any of these concerns is just to get another headset (or upgrade the graphics card), and I feel that Rubin affirms this by noting the extra effort being put in to VR experiences that do NOT require high-end visuals.

    The current shift from publishing studios indicates that from 2016-2019 most people were just "guessing" with VR; pure trial and error. Whereas now there is a stronger strategy and roadmap forward.

    And of course, there are finally real plans to get true AAA titles in the works.

    Overall, I find that Rubin's interview really helps align with these concerns - instead of just trying to ignore or dismiss them outright - and provides a confident path forward. I am slightly more excited to hear more at the upcoming Oculus conference.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,426 Valuable Player
    No, VR is the Future
    Zenbane said:

    An Interview with Oculus' Jason Rubin was released today, and it hits on some of the things I have mentioned. Good timing! lol

    the VR business feels like it’s ready to begin
    putting more effort into games that don’t require high-end visuals and games that appeal to broader demographics.

    Oculus’ Studios publishing group has been shifting from what Rubin used to call an “unpublisher” that would “seed money to whoever had an idea and see what stuck” into an organization that takes bigger bets and is more cautious, similar to a traditional console or PC publisher.

    Mix in a strategy of targeting “global, top-tier IP,” a plan to sign continually larger projects that will eventually reach the budgets of AAA console games, a focus on mixed reality streaming and new types of social experiences, and Oculus sees a path to get more customers in the door.



    But the quotes above really align with the concerns I tried to raise in this conversation. If Rubin feels that now, after all these years, that the VR business is ready to begin... then that explains why even in 2019 critics are still asking the same questions about VR being a fad or gimmick.

    Early in this conversation, I rejected the notion that the answer to any of these concerns is just to get another headset (or upgrade the graphics card), and I feel that Rubin affirms this by noting the extra effort being put in to VR experiences that do NOT require high-end visuals.

    The current shift from publishing studios indicates that from 2016-2019 most people were just "guessing" with VR; pure trial and error. Whereas now there is a stronger strategy and roadmap forward.

    And of course, there are finally real plans to get true AAA titles in the works.

    Overall, I find that Rubin's interview really helps align with these concerns - instead of just trying to ignore or dismiss them outright - and provides a confident path forward. I am slightly more excited to hear more at the upcoming Oculus conference.
    Thanks I'm going to listen to that interview. 
    3 of the things members are saying is price being a problem, hardware development and aaa games. Borrowing from what palmer said. If you gave everyone a free headset vr still wouldn't go mainstream at this time. I'll go a step further  If the hardware was as light as sunglasses it wouldn't go mainstream without enough aaa games and experiences 
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,722 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    No, VR is the Future

    GAH all of ya'll circular arguments or he said she said blehhhhhh! Make it stop!

    Image result for stop sign

    WAAAGH!
  • marcelofdezmarcelofdez Posts: 30 Oculus Start Member
    No, VR is the Future
    Virtual reality is the future, but there is still a long way to go.

    CEO y Fundador 
      
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,879 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Undecided
    Zenbane said:

    An Interview with Oculus' Jason Rubin was released today, and it hits on some of the things I have mentioned. Good timing! lol

    the VR business feels like it’s ready to begin
    putting more effort into games that don’t require high-end visuals and games that appeal to broader demographics.

    Oculus’ Studios publishing group has been shifting from what Rubin used to call an “unpublisher” that would “seed money to whoever had an idea and see what stuck” into an organization that takes bigger bets and is more cautious, similar to a traditional console or PC publisher.

    Mix in a strategy of targeting “global, top-tier IP,” a plan to sign continually larger projects that will eventually reach the budgets of AAA console games, a focus on mixed reality streaming and new types of social experiences, and Oculus sees a path to get more customers in the door.

    That still wont matter though if - only - Oculus is the only headset supported for these titles and not the total VR community for PCVR. Granted there is always a side ways of making anything work - but without native supported from the store front - what's the point? They need to open up their store more if PCVR as a total is going to grow and they need VR as a total to grow if they wish to grow as well.


    After reading it a bit more - It's mostly just talks that we already had talk about here. That we need more content - that it takes time to grow the proper channels - that Quest is most likely the future (removes the PC). Really I don't see anything "new" here as far as "guess".

    Some of what they talk about is - self control content to match their narrative point of view. With some of the questions I feel didn't ask about the over all plan for their platform such as opening the store to others for example in terms of hardware support - software support - and creative designs that push for both. The whole thing lacks some real decision as a whole.

    """[...]putting more effort into games that don’t require high-end visuals and games that appeal to broader demographics[...]"""
    Yea - but when your hardware doesn't offer that - aka nothing above the 450 mark - of course you wouldn't aim for high end visuals, fast moving content, or anything that might make the hardware look bad to scale. You would want to aim for content that matches your hardware and push slowly for the hardware limits as the hardware gets better understood by software teams no different than consoles. The down side to this is your content is limited - much to some reviews complaints about the Rift S is - with its limited 80Hz refresh rates and fast moving items causing some choppiness even though the hardware running is more than able to run it at 90Hz without the choppiness from other companies.

    I dont know - the whole thing leaves much for open talks and doesn't feel like it did much of anything really. More or less what I got is that:
    1) Quest/VR is going to move to streaming services (saw this coming)
    2) VR in total might be moving to stream services - starting off as a hybrid - then moving to full on stream to the hardware (witch is what we are already seeing with consoles - so nothing totally new here).
    3) They are working with partners to get more content and bring higher end content out
    4) They are going to aim for content that matches their hardware and value instead of the market value (nothing wrong with this - just what they are doing - no different than consoles)
    5) That Quest seems to be the future for VR and will be the focus going forward for content. That they might even release Quest 2 sooner than og predicted to keep pushing the hardware forward for new content faster.
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,328
    Project 2501
    edited September 2019
    No, VR is the Future
    Morgrum said:

    GAH all of ya'll circular arguments or he said she said blehhhhhh! Make it stop!


    Zenbane made this thread...we all know he like's a good debate! lol  :p
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,654 Valuable Player
    No, VR is the Future
    RattyUK said:
    VR is amazing, even with the limited HMD's we have today, but we have the circular 'not enough HMD's adopted to make AAA deveopers confident Vs No AAA software to sell HMD's' which doesn't seem to want to go away any time soon.

    Maybe Nvidia/AMD/Intel will bring out a blockbuster GPU that doesn't put off consumers with less disposable income and HMD's get Foveated rendering and eye tracking/good resolution at an attractive price (and untethered gets good hardware too) so takeup increases to a level that developers would accept...

    As it stands, I like what we have today, even if PCVR is certainly not a budget option...  but wouldn't it be nice if....

    That's all going to happen sooner rather than later. In 5-10 years we'll have decent quality headsets available to buy for under a hundred quid or dollars and every home will have one.

    I've already mentioned a few times the three stages of mainstream VR adoption: Enthusiast Gamer VR Adoption, Mainstream Gamer VR Adoption and Mainstream Consumer VR Adoption.

    We're only at the first stage so far. The second stage will start when Microsoft adopt VR for their consoles and that third, and most important stage, will start when VR headsets can be bought for under 100 notes and there is plenty of content available for mainstream consumers such as films, TV, sports events and concerts to watch in VR.

    I don't think anyone in their right mind was expecting every household to have a headset in their home by now, it's going to take time for this to happen.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,879 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Undecided
    snowdog said:
    RattyUK said:
    VR is amazing, even with the limited HMD's we have today, but we have the circular 'not enough HMD's adopted to make AAA deveopers confident Vs No AAA software to sell HMD's' which doesn't seem to want to go away any time soon.

    Maybe Nvidia/AMD/Intel will bring out a blockbuster GPU that doesn't put off consumers with less disposable income and HMD's get Foveated rendering and eye tracking/good resolution at an attractive price (and untethered gets good hardware too) so takeup increases to a level that developers would accept...

    As it stands, I like what we have today, even if PCVR is certainly not a budget option...  but wouldn't it be nice if....

    That's all going to happen sooner rather than later. In 5-10 years we'll have decent quality headsets available to buy for under a hundred quid or dollars and every home will have one.

    I've already mentioned a few times the three stages of mainstream VR adoption: Enthusiast Gamer VR Adoption, Mainstream Gamer VR Adoption and Mainstream Consumer VR Adoption.

    We're only at the first stage so far. The second stage will start when Microsoft adopt VR for their consoles and that third, and most important stage, will start when VR headsets can be bought for under 100 notes and there is plenty of content available for mainstream consumers such as films, TV, sports events and concerts to watch in VR.

    I don't think anyone in their right mind was expecting every household to have a headset in their home by now, it's going to take time for this to happen.
    Intels/AMD new GPU coming out will be the aim for that. AMD already supports an APU - but lacks some key features that makes use of eye tracking and FOVA rendering such as VRS. Intel on the other hand hasn't release or change their GPU setup in over 15 years. In 2020 however - both seem to be changing that and upgrading to support quite a few new features that will allow for some big improves at less than 100-200$ that supports both GPU and CPU needs for console like gaming. There for could mean we see laptops and desktop in the sub $500 group be able to run Rift S/CV1 with ps4-5 performance costing as much as a PSVR total system cost.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,483 Valuable Player
    Undecided
    snowdog said:
    I don't think anyone in their right mind was expecting every household to have a headset in their home by now, it's going to take time for this to happen.

    Maybe not every household, since that is quite extreme. Not even the computer or smart phone has entered every single household on the planet. So a bit of a moot point there.

    But in a realistic sense, I did think that at least 100,000 million households would have some sort of VR Headset by 2019. I base that on the fact that they all became so affordable between Mobile and Console (specifically, anyone who already owned a PS4).

    I am surprised that VR HMD's continue to sell in the "thousands" instead of the "millions." Well, I guess based on the observations I'm making in this thread... I'm not all that surprised anymore!

    As you said, we are only in the first stage so far. Looking forward to watching stage 2 begin! Any day now...


    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,426 Valuable Player
    No, VR is the Future
    I think the 2nd stage will happen sooner rather than later.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,654 Valuable Player
    No, VR is the Future
    Zenbane said:
    snowdog said:
    I don't think anyone in their right mind was expecting every household to have a headset in their home by now, it's going to take time for this to happen.

    Maybe not every household, since that is quite extreme. Not even the computer or smart phone has entered every single household on the planet. So a bit of a moot point there.

    But in a realistic sense, I did think that at least 100,000 million households would have some sort of VR Headset by 2019. I base that on the fact that they all became so affordable between Mobile and Console (specifically, anyone who already owned a PS4).

    I am surprised that VR HMD's continue to sell in the "thousands" instead of the "millions." Well, I guess based on the observations I'm making in this thread... I'm not all that surprised anymore!

    As you said, we are only in the first stage so far. Looking forward to watching stage 2 begin! Any day now...



    Not sure if that was a typo? 100 billion? There are only 7.7 billion people in the world. Did you mean 1 billion? Even if you meant 1 billion that's still WAY too many to expect at this stage of things.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,483 Valuable Player
    Undecided
    @snowdog - I never typed "billion." Look again, my friend! And my post is not edited. <3
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,916 Valuable Player
    No, VR is the Future
    Zenbane said:
    @snowdog - I never typed "billion." Look again, my friend! And my post is not edited. <3
    1,000 million = 1 billion 

    100,000 million = 100 billion 
    i7 9700k 2080ti   CV1, Rift-S, Index
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,483 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Undecided
    MowTin said:
    Zenbane said:
    @snowdog - I never typed "billion." Look again, my friend! And my post is not edited. <3
    1,000 million = 1 billion 

    100,000 million = 100 billion 

    ooh wait, I see it. I made the typo!

    I was trying to say 100 million (100,000,000). I typed 100,000 million.

    FML
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • Protocol7Protocol7 Posts: 333
    Trinity
    Zenbane said:
    snowdog said:
    I don't think anyone in their right mind was expecting every household to have a headset in their home by now, it's going to take time for this to happen.

    Maybe not every household, since that is quite extreme. Not even the computer or smart phone has entered every single household on the planet. So a bit of a moot point there.

    But in a realistic sense, I did think that at least 100,000 million households would have some sort of VR Headset by 2019. I base that on the fact that they all became so affordable between Mobile and Console (specifically, anyone who already owned a PS4).

    I am surprised that VR HMD's continue to sell in the "thousands" instead of the "millions." Well, I guess based on the observations I'm making in this thread... I'm not all that surprised anymore!

    As you said, we are only in the first stage so far. Looking forward to watching stage 2 begin! Any day now...


    You wrote "100,000 million households"
    There are nowhere near that many people let alone households on earth.
  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 825
    3Jane
    edited September 2019
    Undecided
    I still read these forums but I got rid of my VR. Biggest reason why is because I was really expecting basically VR options within AAA titles, at least by now. It didn't help that we got teased with Alien Isolation, still my favorite VR experience to date. In short it failed to go where I was hoping it would, instead the focus went all on motion controls (gamercising).

    The AA to AAA 'like' (which are few and far between) games all centered around motion controls just got old, and I went back to flat panel AAA games. I just wanted to chill in a chair (motion control or gamepad) and engross myself in a deep video game, basically what AAA offers. A small part of my decision was the Rift S issues at first, but as they fixed them I still didn't mind that I returned mine. None of it had to do with Rift S specs. I thought it was a fine upgrade, especially for the price. Maybe next gen. Maybe not.

    basically I lost interest in VR, and that's coming from someone during the DK2 days that swore I'd never flat panel game again. Also, I got so used to VR that being in VR or flat panel gaming felt the same as far as immersion. Weird I know. I don't think VR is going away. With future improvements in hardware and software it should take hold, that is if we can last that long.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,426 Valuable Player
    No, VR is the Future
    jayhawk said:
    I still read these forums but I got rid of my VR. Biggest reason why is because I was really expecting basically VR options within AAA titles, at least by now. It didn't help that we got teased with Alien Isolation, still my favorite VR experience to date. In short it failed to go where I was hoping it would, instead the focus went all on motion controls (gamercising).

    The AA to AAA 'like' (which are few and far between) games all centered around motion controls just got old, and I went back to flat panel AAA games. I just wanted to chill in a chair (motion control or gamepad) and engross myself in a deep video game, basically what AAA offers. A small part of my decision was the Rift S issues at first, but as they fixed them I still didn't mind that I returned mine. None of it had to do with Rift S specs. I thought it was a fine upgrade, especially for the price. Maybe next gen. Maybe not.

    basically I lost interest in VR, and that's coming from someone during the DK2 days that swore I'd never flat panel game again. Also, I got so used to VR that being in VR or flat panel gaming felt the same as far as immersion. Weird I know. I don't think VR is going away. With future improvements in hardware and software it should take hold, that is if we can last that long.
    You have my condolences.
  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 272
    Nexus 6
    No, VR is the Future
    I'm completely convinced that VR is the future (how long that will take is definitely an open ended conversation).

    Reason for my view is that pancake gaming didn't happen over night and really didn't start to take off until companies like 3DFX made it possible to experience games at reasonable fps (at the time). Anyone gaming back then will understand what I'm talking about (not that I'm just referencing fps as what catapulted it, just an example). Compare this with VR presently, we have a similar situation happening, except that the industry already has the experience of pancake gaming (now) plus the technology that put it there. If you put that all together, one can see that we are just beginning to learn what can be done in a virtual environment using past experiences and present technology. We have the technology to pull it off (for the most part), but it takes time to implement just how to use it (same as what I meant with the hardware 3DFX presented for pancake gaming at that time) and to use it efficiently. No doubt VR technology will advance and there will be new interactive ways to react with it. Unfortunately, presently, there are companies who are only in it to make money...which happens in every business...and aren't really catapulting anything towards VR...and keeping it expensive. Despite this, there will always be someone who has a vision of what they want to do and will do it...and that will catapult VR...and will make it cheaper. We all know that pricing, AAA, sickness and other things are keeping VR from becoming mainstream...it will just take more time to overcome these obstacles (same as what happened with pancake gaming). I remember feeling sick after playing an hour of Descent way back when (wow, that long ago)...due to fluctuations in fps at the time (even with a 3DFX card). Despite that, most everyone who played couldn't stop playing because it was so immersive. Point being, pancake gaming solved the fps sickness at that time with advancements in tech, just like VR will in time. Anyway, enough soap box.

    I've been quite silent for the past many months due to spending all my spare time (outside of career & GF) to working on my present VR project (haven't been playing any games period). I won't be releasing any details anytime soon (except with very close friends) but I am very happy with what I'm working on so far (I'm actually addicted to my own project presently in it's present state...LOL!!! gotta resist fun and create). The ton of ideas I've collected over the past 35+ years of gaming will make to be a very compelling product. Please stand by!!!
    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 32 GB Corsair Veng DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, 1TB M.2 SSD, Adata Su800 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, BarraCuda 2TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1909
    "Presently developing a VR project (outside of my profession) due to the lack of availability of what I would like to experience" Details in a year or two...
  • blanesblanes Posts: 1,100
    3Jane
    Yes, VR is a Fad/Gimmick
    I think in its current form it is a fad and only can succeed if there is a massive improve in visual quality - however I can never imagine mainstream gaming being dominated by VR because the issue of motion sickness probably will never be totally overcome.  But I am biased in that I only ever bought a DK2 then CV1 for motor racing which for me is where it excels.  If I am not racing then my Rift sits in its box. My other gaming time is with open world shooters, most recent Borderlands3, on the 65inch 4K Sony. VR is always gonna be niche imho.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,426 Valuable Player
    No, VR is the Future
    blanes said:
    I think in its current form it is a fad and only can succeed if there is a massive improve in visual quality - however I can never imagine mainstream gaming being dominated by VR because the issue of motion sickness probably will never be totally overcome.  But I am biased in that I only ever bought a DK2 then CV1 for motor racing which for me is where it excels.  If I am not racing then my Rift sits in its box. My other gaming time is with open world shooters, most recent Borderlands3, on the 65inch 4K Sony. VR is always gonna be niche imho.

    After seeing oc 1st day. 100 million store sales anounced. 20% of the sales only since quest was released. Quest selling faster than they can be make them even months after they went for sale. Calling vr a fad after seeing thst is just plain silly.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,204 Valuable Player
    No, VR is the Future
    blanes said:
    I think in its current form it is a fad and only can succeed if there is a massive improve in visual quality - however I can never imagine mainstream gaming being dominated by VR because the issue of motion sickness probably will never be totally overcome.  But I am biased in that I only ever bought a DK2 then CV1 for motor racing which for me is where it excels.  If I am not racing then my Rift sits in its box. My other gaming time is with open world shooters, most recent Borderlands3, on the 65inch 4K Sony. VR is always gonna be niche imho.
    BL2 VR is out imminently (if not already) perhaps that will interest you?

    mind you it is not multiplayer which is a huge turn off for me, playing with mates coop is where BL2 shines imo. 
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 825
    3Jane
    edited September 2019
    Undecided
    inovator said:
    jayhawk said:

    You have my condolences.
    lol. I'm good dude. I look at it this way. It's just a long break, and I should appreciate it more when get back into it eventually.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,426 Valuable Player
    No, VR is the Future
    jayhawk said:
    inovator said:
    jayhawk said:

    You have my condolences.
    lol. I'm good dude. I look at it this way. It's just a long break, and I should appreciate it more when get back into it eventually.
    I could understand how u feel. When video games started the graphics were bad but I loved playing the games until it got to today's huge upgrade. I'm sure there were people that didn't start gaming until the hardware and games had a large bump up.  I love vr so much that I even loved  the 1st phone Mobil vr headsets with very little content. I play vr 5 to 6 days a week especially since the setup is so easy now.
  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,303
    Neo
    No, VR is the Future
    Given the centuries VR is going to mature over (yes you read that right), its absolutely ridiculous to declare it a 'fad'. If VR is a fad, so is TV, so is the internet, so is computing, so are cars, so are planes (etc).

    None of the above achieved critical mass and ubiquity until the technology was good enough.

    The fact is, and it may make some cry, the TECHNOLOGY SIMPLY IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH to get anything LIKE what we really know "VIRTUAL REALITY" can be.

    What we have right now is a tiny fractured, imperfect glimpse of something akin to "VR", the rest us VR nerds fill in with our imaginations, while the general public (with less interest/lesser imaginations) can't or won't.

    So, eventually, of course Virtual Reality will be as important as the internet, or motorised travel. It's just a good way off yet. And none of it comes down to 'VR's killer app' or 'AAA Games', the issue is, as it has been since the last VR phase in the early 90s, THE TECH IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

    VR imo should never have been pushed so early to mainstream, I've said this since DK1/2 days. For myself and many of us super nerds who CAN fill in the blanks and know it's very early days, we see nothing but possibilities and amazement at what VR will one day achieve. Sadly, the mainstream (or rather a small subset) see utterly banal 'trash' like Astro Bot and even Beat Saber as the summit of what VR is about. And none of it is actually "VR".

    And none of it is "VR" because VR doesn't even technically exist yet, be honest... until the day we have effortless ergonomics, human vision resolution/natural FOV, full locomotion that can simulate everything from flying to falling to f***ing (to paraphrase Lawnmower Man), until we have full haptic feedback and sensing of materials, temperatures, smells and non "player" motion, then "Virtual Reality" doesn't exist. Cos it's nothing like reality right now, virtual or otherwise, its IS an extremely cool, novel, amazing, fun and immersive advancement of 3D vision mixed with very cool head tracking and hand tracking that is giving us perhaps 5? maybe 10% of what we'll fully need to declare it as "Virtual Reality" without wincing and admitting it's not 'perfect'.

    VR is not a fad. The current phase of VR isn't good enough that's all. Tech takes time, and thank GOD VR isn't good enough yet cos I'd never want this gen of VR to be the end goal. And I don't even want it to be achievable within 5 years because it would surely mean we've compromised somewhere.

    VR will truly be VR when it is VR. Not before. It won't come from playing 3rd person platformers or endless waves of music game shovelware, all of that is the 'gimmick', but I don't blame it, the software is trying to make the best use of the limited hardware (mainly the processing power right now but also the limits of the VR systems).

    What might happens is it could die off again for 10 years, or go low key, while tech matures.. then bounce back again. Finally one day it'll be 'good enough' to hit mainstream, later again it'll be near perfect enough to call it true Virtual Reality. Maybe 5 years to be good enough for us VR nerds, 10 years for mainstream and 25 years for TRUE virtual reality without any hardware or software issues. VR is a big ask and one day when people are being empowered and enriched by it daily they'll look back on times like this, the good old days, and laugh at themselves for thinking it was a fad.

    It only appears fad like right now due to how the companies have pushed it, imo, far too early to mainstream - causing SOME perception issues/damage. That may set VR back at least in the public perception for 5 years. VR is still a concept before its time, come on, we were using until recently mobile phone cast off screens... how was a 'hack' basically ever gonna change the world? The good news is that the current phase has at least brought to light all the areas that are needed to improve to make future VR 'real', something I think wasn't learned from the first phase in the 90s when it was just known we had no chance for decades cos the tech was so poor. We are on the brink of 'almost there' at least for VR nerds, but while the emphasis remains on dumbing down (started with Gear VR and now moved to Quest) it'll help nothing and I think FB are short-sighted (or have ulterior motives) pursuing that avenue because they must know at best it'll be a gold rush for a few years then crash, rather than the 'REAL' VR they prophisize in their lastest videos.

    FTR Even when I dreamed of VR in the 90s, and when I got my DK2 back when it came out, I knew VR was never a fad but would be years away from being good enough to deliver properly. I also never, not once, ever pictured using VR to play a super mario world with a fox or a robot instead, or to just slice abstract cubes to a beat (as fun as these can be) 'fun' and 'novelty' are never compelling enough alone to achieve orbit (look at Wii... and motion controls), anything that sticks has to have more of an every day VITAL usage than just beat saber or a cool immersion factor, esp given things like crappy god rays, bad ergonomics and low resolution. 

    True VR to me would be when it feels like lucid dreaming, as real as reality in graphics, physic, sensations and movement, but YOU choose the (safe) story.. and ANYTHING is possible. Once that exists and feels exactly like that, everyone on Earth will want in to VR. It can't happen while the tech isn't there, and it won't happen if people keep shovelwaring/gold-rushing VR with the cartoon based crud that passes for the majority of "VR" software (no matter HOW personally fun you or I may find it - 'fun' isn't VR.. VR is VR!).

    Teleportation, time travel, lucid dream like worlds and then eventually things akin to traditional video games but far far better in scope and execution will arrive to take advantage of genuinely stunning hardware, then it'll be VR, and it'll be no fad, no gimmick.

    I find it best to just basically ignore what's going on in the 'mainstream' of "VR" right now as it's almost a dead end, and will be brushed aside and forgotten about when "true VR" gets here, in the meantime I run my own experiements in VR using UE4 and whatever I can to get close to real VR, and see hints of the future, extended presence, mind blowing emotional connection (even to just an object like a car that feels 'real'), these are things glossed over in the mainstream right now due to limits of the typical pc, quest and low res/god rays etc not allowing truly realistic gfx without visual disturbances.

    FTR and finally, we'll NEVER achieve "VR" while we have such stupid things as grey blacks and god-rays. That oculus went from DK2 with deep blacks and no god-rays (yes plenty of other downsides in DK2) to the quest.. and esp RIFT S with the LCD (and god rays) is a sign they aren't exactly trying to get VR right, right now, because they know like me and many of that it's practically impossible to do right, cheaply enough and ergonomically enough right here and now. It's going to take years sadly, and I est at LEAST 10 years before we see the first truly amazing, non visual/fov/haptics impaired VR, with decent ergonomics and good pricing. Probably Generation 5?

    Gen 1 may seem like a fad but Gen 5 most definitely won't. 
    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
    Poster of the week who never got a T-Shirt ;( dayum they looked tasty!
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,483 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Undecided
    Sharpfish said:
    Given the centuries VR is going to mature over (yes you read that right), its absolutely ridiculous to declare it a 'fad'. If VR is a fad, so is TV, so is the internet, so is computing, so are cars, so are planes (etc).

    That is not accurate. The Internet began as military technology (Department of Defense). Hardly a fad at all. And when the Internet was made available to the public sector, it was immediately implemented by major industry and advanced colleges/universities.

    A similar history is applied to planes, cars, and computing. You MIGHT have a slight point with TV's, but considering all the major Broadcast Stations that were available, TV's outgrew the fad phase much faster than Virtual Reality.

    None of the above achieved critical mass and ubiquity until the technology was good enough.

    Your argument here is about "mainstream adoption." But that is irrelevant. It is entirely possible for a fad or gimmick to become mainstream.

    The technology for Virtual Reality is good enough right now. We have achieved:

    • Immersion
    • Presence
    • Portability
    The problem is that global industry, and global consumers, have showed little interest in adopting it beyond a niche. Especially compared to... the TV, Internet, computing, cars, and planes.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,303
    Neo
    edited September 2019
    No, VR is the Future
    Zenbane said:
    Sharpfish said:
    Given the centuries VR is going to mature over (yes you read that right), its absolutely ridiculous to declare it a 'fad'. If VR is a fad, so is TV, so is the internet, so is computing, so are cars, so are planes (etc).

    That is not accurate. The Internet began as military technology (Department of Defense). Hardly a fad at all. And when the Internet was made available to the public sector, it was immediately implemented by major industry and advanced colleges/universities.

    A similar history is applied to planes, cars, and computing. You MIGHT have a slight point with TV's, but considering all the major Broadcast Stations that were available, TV's outgrew the fad phase much faster than Virtual Reality.

    None of the above achieved critical mass and ubiquity until the technology was good enough.

    Your argument here is about "mainstream adoption." But that is irrelevant. It is entirely possible for a fad or gimmick to become mainstream.

    The technology for Virtual Reality is good enough right now. We have achieved:

    • Immersion
    • Presence
    • Portability
    The problem is that global industry, and global consumers, have showed little interest in adopting it beyond a niche. Especially compared to... the TV, Internet, computing, cars, and planes.
    Shut up Zenbane you've always got on my nerves and still do.

    You wanted input, the above is my input. Stop being pedantic with small details everyone else gets.

    Further, your sense of self importance is still too high. You are not the authority on everything that you seem to think you are.

    My post stands, it's valid, I don't need your input (esp as you only reply to nit-pick (wrongly) and ignore the vast swathes of on-point, positive and 'realistic' things I wrote). No buddy, VR isn't good enough yet, clearly... or it wouldn't be still a 'hard sell' to everyone but us nerds.

    But you gotta keep that stupid-high post count up I guess. ;) 
    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
    Poster of the week who never got a T-Shirt ;( dayum they looked tasty!
  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 810
    3Jane
    No, VR is the Future
    blanes said:
    I think in its current form it is a fad and only can succeed if there is a massive improve in visual quality - however I can never imagine mainstream gaming being dominated by VR because the issue of motion sickness probably will never be totally overcome.  But I am biased in that I only ever bought a DK2 then CV1 for motor racing which for me is where it excels.  If I am not racing then my Rift sits in its box. My other gaming time is with open world shooters, most recent Borderlands3, on the 65inch 4K Sony. VR is always gonna be niche imho.
    BL2 VR is out imminently (if not already) perhaps that will interest you?

    mind you it is not multiplayer which is a huge turn off for me, playing with mates coop is where BL2 shines imo. 
    Looking forward to BL2 VR, i could have bought it on the PSVR but i am in no mood to play the game with what is the worst motions controllers a on the planet, those ancient move controllers that barely work in anything that is not seated, plus i did not want to play it with a joypad, i basically want another game to match standing  and full VR controll like Skyrim and Fallout 4, were i can look at all the weapons and point at everything, no going back once you have enjoyed that....although, skyrim vr on the PSVR gets a pass with the joypad simply because the game does it right even with the joypad, and it's Skyrim, a game that would be good on a 3d view master. lol
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,483 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Undecided
    Sharpfish said:
    Shut up Zenbane you've always got on my nerves and still do.

    So you decided to post in a thread that I authored? Smart.
    You've never said much that interests me one way or the other, so you don't get on my nerves at all. Even when you start to rage on a personal level lol

    You wanted input, the above is my input.

    And I gave you input on your input.


    Stop being pedantic with small details everyone else gets.

    This conversation is about details. You introduced details, but did not apply them correctly. And you certainly do not speak for everyone.


    Further, your sense of self importance is still too high.

    My post was not about how important I am; my post simply addressed your notion about the Internet, TV, etc. If reading my post made you feel that I am important, then there isn't much I can do about that. Either way, you have stopped talking about the topic and focused entirely on me. Not very healthy.


    You are not the authority on everything that you seem to think you are.

    I have never claimed to be an authority, but you seem to think that I am an authority.


    My post stands, it's valid,

    I disagree.


    I don't need your input

    Nor do I need yours. Yet you gave your input, and now I gave mine. I'm not really interested in what you think of me personally, especially considering how much you got wrong when trying to analyze the simple history of the Internet, TV, cars, and planes.

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,426 Valuable Player
    No, VR is the Future
    Zenbane said:
    Sharpfish said:
    Shut up Zenbane you've always got on my nerves and still do.

    So you decided to post in a thread that I authored? Smart.
    You've never said much that interests me one way or the other, so you don't get on my nerves at all. Even when you start to rage on a personal level lol

    You wanted input, the above is my input.

    And I gave you input on your input.


    Stop being pedantic with small details everyone else gets.

    This conversation is about details. You introduced details, but did not apply them correctly. And you certainly do not speak for everyone.


    Further, your sense of self importance is still too high.

    My post was not about how important I am; my post simply addressed your notion about the Internet, TV, etc. If reading my post made you feel that I am important, then there isn't much I can do about that. Either way, you have stopped talking about the topic and focused entirely on me. Not very healthy.


    You are not the authority on everything that you seem to think you are.

    I have never claimed to be an authority, but you seem to think that I am an authority.


    My post stands, it's valid,

    I disagree.


    I don't need your input

    Nor do I need yours. Yet you gave your input, and now I gave mine. I'm not really interested in what you think of me personally, especially considering how much you got wrong when trying to analyze the simple history of the Internet, TV, cars, and planes.

    Dont pay attention to him. He woke up with a stick up his you no what.what. I hope I skimmed some of what he said correctly. It was hard to read his babbling. He said in the survey vr is not a fad then he says vr is not good enough and could die off again for 10 years.well that is saying he thinks it is a fad. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,204 Valuable Player
    No, VR is the Future
    Sharpfish said:
    . No buddy, VR isn't good enough yet, clearly... or it wouldn't be still a 'hard sell' to everyone but us nerds.
    Personally I don't think something being a niche means it isn't good enough . Whether or not being niche is acceptable for Facebook is a separate thing .
    Even if VR goes fully mainstream I suspect my personal use of it will remain more of a niche use.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
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