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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,880 Valuable Player
    kojack said:
    I was tuning out in the middle there too around 4am.

    I forget that everyone is in different time zones! Although since you brought it up... I will mention that when you tuned out, you didn't feel compelled to let everyone know about it. At least until now lol

    I do agree that it's a dumb thing to argue about.
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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 6,364 Volunteer Moderator
    RedRizla said:
    This all sounds good. I'll definitely consider getting an Oculus Quest once I hear from some people who have their Oculus Quest tethered. It was always going to be the best option for Oculus to have a VR headset that could be used for both mobile and PC -VR.
    Does anybody know if having the tethered option will use the battery placing it on charge, or will it just bypass the battery altogether?
    It's supposed to charge the battery while playing, provided the USB port can provide the necessary power.
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  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 3,366 Valuable Player
    nalex66 said:
    RedRizla said:
    This all sounds good. I'll definitely consider getting an Oculus Quest once I hear from some people who have their Oculus Quest tethered. It was always going to be the best option for Oculus to have a VR headset that could be used for both mobile and PC -VR.
    Does anybody know if having the tethered option will use the battery placing it on charge, or will it just bypass the battery altogether?
    It's supposed to charge the battery while playing, provided the USB port can provide the necessary power.
    I'm not sure if we know this yet.  I have heard that the cable is thinner than standard cables so thought it may be because it is not supplying power.

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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 6,364 Volunteer Moderator
    TomCgcmfc said:
    nalex66 said:
    RedRizla said:
    This all sounds good. I'll definitely consider getting an Oculus Quest once I hear from some people who have their Oculus Quest tethered. It was always going to be the best option for Oculus to have a VR headset that could be used for both mobile and PC -VR.
    Does anybody know if having the tethered option will use the battery placing it on charge, or will it just bypass the battery altogether?
    It's supposed to charge the battery while playing, provided the USB port can provide the necessary power.
    I'm not sure if we know this yet.  I have heard that the cable is thinner than standard cables so thought it may be because it is not supplying power.

    We do. This was a quote from an Oculus employee on Reddit:
    Our cable is capable of providing charge to the headset if the USB port supports ample power

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  • Protocol7Protocol7 Posts: 333
    Trinity

    "Oculus Link hands-on and five questions answered"

    "This really does work as advertised, which is damned impressive."


  • MradrMradr Posts: 4,179 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    snowdog said:
    The Half Dome final version (we'll probably see another few iterations of it during the next few OCs) will be the CV2 released in 2022. Remember, the Snowdog predicted this ages ago and is right 99% of the time.

    O.o! But the way he talk and what was being shown off didn't even seem ready in the next 5 though at least. Really amazing hardware none the less - I mean the technology over the liquid crystal lens idea is just - WOW -. It just I think I agree with his speech - we keep saying CV2 is next - but base off what was shown off - I think we're another 5 years out at lease rather than seeing it in 2022 so that is why I think we're going to see another Rift S 2 instead of that monster of a design in the mean time. Man that price alone would be crazy nuts with a multi layer lens design like that XD I am hype for that version of VR though! That's going to be crazy af when it releases more like in 2024-5.

    I think I agree with nelax66 - we're going to see a hybrid apporch instead as the two products just over lap and only real difference is a mobile device between the two. Sell the mobile part as a "console" or "box" that you attach later onto the headset seems like a good balance and allows it to be optional "upgrade".

    What I hope doesn't happen though - is that they remove the idea of a middle and upper end and just focus on the middle and lower end for price reasons. I hope they continue releasing in true fashion a PC headset high end and a hybrid for the middle end making it very clear on the differences between the two other than self created ones. It really wouldn't surprise me if they just remove the Rift S -> Focus on a scale hardware (support 90Hz high end) and drop that down to 75 for when connected to mobile. The problem would be resolution leaps would be super small though to help keep the over all bandwidth low unless they can find another way around of that (and I am sure they are working on that with their compression/static FOVA). From there - they will just add a few extra cameras and offer that box as an optional "upgrade" for on the go if you wish to use it. It would make total sense if they did - but that also means Rift S 2 in 2021-2. 

    Go 2 on the other hand is going to get hand tracking as well and will be base off a higher spec version/cpu found in Quest right now - that means it'll be getting some game support rather than media support from what it looks like. Add in optional controllers if you wish and boom you have a "cheap" entry -> into middle vr use if you wish.

    GO 2 -> Low/Entry level starting at 200-150 with controller upgrade for another 50$ with a 25-30% more power than we saw with Quest 1. Supports Quest 1 camera lay out and can be hybrid as well (I mean if they can do it on the quest - why can't they on Go 2?).

    Quest 2 -> Middle/PC entry starting at 300-275 with a 50-100$ console box that can be added to it later as well for on the go use. It would be a hybrid device that can connect to the PC and that box at any time. It'll have the same number of cameras found on Rift S or a wider view side cameras to cover some of the back as well (maybe place at an angle to capture more of that area).

    Rift S -> High end - clearly out specs the other two and a console box just wouldn't have the power to run it well. This would start at around 500-450 and provide the best screen leap and refresh rates with early eye tracking/(D)FOVA but no veritable focus just yet. <at least this is my hope they keep making - they could drop this and keep the other two no problem though - not that I want it to happen like I said above - but from a marketing view it still would cover more than 90% of a target market that doesn't have a PC in the first place that could even run VR.

    If they do just keep middle and lower - it'll be for easy access into VR and price reasons. At that point - everyone in their grandma should be able to pick up a device costing less than a PS-# while providing lots and lots of games to use with the flexibility to connect to stronger hardware later on for even more power. It would even cover 99% of the market with the last 1% just being people with super high end computers/2080+ devices that they could just leave up to HTC/Valve/Pimax to. They can even focus more on software for both PC and mobile while only worrying about two products vs three and both products support both pc and mobile instead of having to teach a team for one and the other.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,387 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    I dunno I see it similar but a little different @Mradr  (edit actually the 2nd part of your post is more like how i would like to see it..... I *dont* think they need to offer a PC only device, which you touch on later.)

    It makes total sense to me that oculus should really tie in their mobile devices with their rift platform..... hopefully then rather than having an oculus go, and oculus quest and an oculus rift, they could just offer 2 or 3 different headsets each essentially feature comparable but with higher / lower specs and price point.

    I hope going forward all their devices will have some form of mobile component.  Whilst not every one is interested in PCVR I suspect most people would like the idea of mobile VR as an option from time to time. Given what people at oculus/Facebook like Carmack etc are interested in, I think they will be keen to have everyone with mobile VR of some description.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,907 Valuable Player
    If the plan was always to do Quest Link, then I feel that the Rift-S could have been surplus to requirements, other than to appease the PC VR community - may explain that this was a Lenovo partnership, though for Lenovo, they may feel they got the ruff end of the stick if sales projections can be understood.
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,295 Valuable Player
    While I appreciate how cool the Link cable is, I'd still much rather have a wireless Rift X than a wired Quest.
    So for now Oculus aren't seeing more of my money unless my CV1 + TPcast suddenly croakes.
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,415 Valuable Player
    Wildt said:
    While I appreciate how cool the Link cable is, I'd still much rather have a wireless Rift X than a wired Quest.
    So for now Oculus aren't seeing more of my money unless my CV1 + TPcast suddenly croakes.
    Agreed, I wonder how Quest will be able to provide perfect image quality in 2880x1600, which is the exact same res as the Index. Even 72 Hz will not be enough the maintain same performance as CV1 90 Hz, because 20% lower refresh rate will not allow for 80% higher res with no performance penalties. Also Index uses DisplayPort for a reason, and 72 x 2880x1600 are a massive amount of pixels to display without latencies. And then inside-out tracking gets reduced to only 4 cameras.
    As I wrote in the a Robinson thread recently, CV1 can be better even than Index in a few select games where temporal antialiasing provides great benefits. Really interesting to see how Quest will perform in Asgard's Wrath and Stormland compared to both CV1 and Rift-S.
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • MradrMradr Posts: 4,179 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    RuneSR2 said:
    Wildt said:
    While I appreciate how cool the Link cable is, I'd still much rather have a wireless Rift X than a wired Quest.
    So for now Oculus aren't seeing more of my money unless my CV1 + TPcast suddenly croakes.
    Agreed, I wonder how Quest will be able to provide perfect image quality in 2880x1600, which is the exact same res as the Index. Even 72 Hz will not be enough the maintain same performance as CV1 90 Hz, because 20% lower refresh rate will not allow for 80% higher res with no performance penalties. Also Index uses DisplayPort for a reason, and 72 x 2880x1600 are a massive amount of pixels to display without latencies. And then inside-out tracking gets reduced to only 4 cameras.
    As I wrote in the a Robinson thread recently, CV1 can be better even than Index in a few select games where temporal antialiasing provides great benefits. Really interesting to see how Quest will perform in Asgard's Wrath and Stormland compared to both CV1 and Rift-S.
    Refresh rates are a bigger bandwidth hog than total pixels are over a given time frame such as 1/90 vs 1/72. This gives a bit of time to preform compression - static FOVA - and other methods to help improve the over all bandwidth per image sent.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,880 Valuable Player
    Wildt said:
    While I appreciate how cool the Link cable is, I'd still much rather have a wireless Rift X than a wired Quest.
    So for now Oculus aren't seeing more of my money unless my CV1 + TPcast suddenly croakes.
    Are you referring to Oculus hardware only? Or will you still by Oculus software exclusives?

    I am still holding out on the hardware front as well. I will continue to wait for a true CV2, but I will also keep buying that Software!
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  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,295 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    Wildt said:
    While I appreciate how cool the Link cable is, I'd still much rather have a wireless Rift X than a wired Quest.
    So for now Oculus aren't seeing more of my money unless my CV1 + TPcast suddenly croakes.
    Are you referring to Oculus hardware only? Or will you still by Oculus software exclusives?

    I am still holding out on the hardware front as well. I will continue to wait for a true CV2, but I will also keep buying that Software!
    Hardware only - I'm still buying the (good) Oculus timed exclusives :)
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 6,364 Volunteer Moderator
    In another thread, it was said that Steam games won't be accommodated by the link and that's a major thing for me if true.
    An Oculus rep has confirmed that "unknown apps" will work with Oculus Link just like they do with Rift.
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 4,179 Valuable Player
    Man - I am still going over the information on HD3 and my jaw still keeps dropping every time. That thing is not even a leap - but the difference between us driving a car to work or flying a rocket to the Moon for work. lol
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,497 Volunteer Moderator
    nalex66 said:
    In another thread, it was said that Steam games won't be accommodated by the link and that's a major thing for me if true.
    An Oculus rep has confirmed that "unknown apps" will work with Oculus Link just like they do with Rift.
    Thanks nalex, I'd enjoy knowing the details about this... I mean it must have something to do with how the games are called and processed, with compression being talked about and maybe all that is part of the Oculus SDK, but just wondered if future developments could allow the same to be done for unknown apps in a slightly different way... or something.
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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 6,364 Volunteer Moderator
    I believe that they said there would be a blog post coming up going over the nitty gritty of how it all works. I'm also keen to hear more details. There have been some hands-on accounts from OC6, and some sessions that covered more than the announcement did. so far it sounds pretty good.

    I'm now reviewing my cable situation so I can test the beta that releases in November before the official link cable goes on sale (I read that it will cost $79). I have 5m active USB 3.0 extender cables for some of my sensors, and a USB 3.0 A to C cable that I use for side-loading, so hopefully I can use those to try it out. Once the official link cable is available, I'll most likely get that, and add a USB C PCIe card to my computer.
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 4,179 Valuable Player
    What's fun is that I was thinking what to do with my old computer - and my brother's kids I got Quest for really wanted to play Onward in VR - so this is perfect timing really for them xD 
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,907 Valuable Player
    "...Very puzzling indeed" [why OculusVR released the Rift-S - in the face of them launching Quest Link some months later] !

    If the TESTED guys are going to say that then its hard to ignore.
    Was OculusVR always going to release this, or was that HTC Cosmos announcement at the beginning of the year enough to change their tack this drastically.
    The forums are full of people stating they are going to return their Rift-S - I just wonder what Lenovo is feeling right now (another bridge burnt)?
  • dburnedburne Posts: 4,426 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    "...Very puzzling indeed" [why OculusVR released the Rift-S - in the face of them launching Quest Link some months later] !

    If the TESTED guys are going to say that then its hard to ignore.
    Was OculusVR always going to release this, or was that HTC Cosmos announcement at the beginning of the year enough to change their tack this drastically.
    The forums are full of people stating they are going to return their Rift-S - I just wonder what Lenovo is feeling right now (another bridge burnt)?
    I believe Rift is on the way out. I think they were feeling some pressure from the PC-VR enthusiasts to get them something sooner rather than later, and they handed that task over to Lenovo as a short term situation. They knew they would lose some customer base in PC-VR, and did this to maybe soften how much they would lose of that. But they see a much bigger market ahead for Quest development.

    I believe this was probably the only change in their strategy, and they likely have had their eyes on future improvements on stand alone to include offering it as a device that can be tethered to a PC. I believe their overall strategy for VR changed about the time some notable folks began to depart Oculus. I think in it's first iteration the tethering to the PC will be ok, but not ideal. But they will continue to work on that aspect along with the stand alone to improve in both those areas for the next Quest design.

    I personally do not believe there will be any more "Rift" devices, but changes/improvements to the Quest style of device going forward. Kind of like taking a step back for short term for larger gains in long term.
    Obviously , this is all conjecture on my part.


    Don

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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,387 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Thing is we don't know the deal with Lenovo. For all we know it was always only ever going to be a short term device so oculus had a pcvr device out whilst they got this sorted . Lenovo may know this and be happy with it.
    Could be talking crap of course but it's as likely as not imo.
    Could have been cheaper to do this than to have another run of CV1s. (Given the cable issues it seems CV1 parts are genuinely in short supply)
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,415 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 961 Evo M.2 SSD 128GB (for OS) + Samsung EVO 860 4TB SSD (for games) + Toshiba P300 High-Performance HDD 3TB (for games); Win10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1, the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0.

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,415 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Engadget likes Oculus Link:

    I was surprised to learn that the Link feature works very differently than a normal PC VR headset. Instead of essentially being another monitor on your PC, the Quest is actually receiving a low-latency video of VR experiences being rendered by your computer. Think of it like a localized version of game streaming services like Google's Stadia. That functionality made me worried at first, since any additional latency can instantly kill the effectiveness of VR. But it turns out, I could barely tell a difference between the Link's VR video feed and a genuine PC headset.

    Seems that Asgard's Wrath and Stormland worked flawlessly, although the reviewer admits needing more time to perform a thorough review:

    https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/26/oculus-quest-link-hands-on-pc-vr/?utm_campaign=homepage&utm_medium=internal&utm_source=dl
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 961 Evo M.2 SSD 128GB (for OS) + Samsung EVO 860 4TB SSD (for games) + Toshiba P300 High-Performance HDD 3TB (for games); Win10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1, the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0.

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • JohanTEAJohanTEA Posts: 59
    Hiro Protagonist
    RuneSR2 said:
    Carmac said the Quest sceen can manage 90Hz but due to the FCC rating being 72Hz they would need to re-certify it to lawfully run it at 90Hz and currently they had no plan to do that. From my view point that is like saying "please hack the Quest" :)
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    RuneSR2 said:
    The Reddit threads suggested Carmack said they couldn't do 90Hz because of FCC regulations, but as far as I knew, the displays are only 60Hz panels, overclocked to 72Hz.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 8,058 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Well since it is Oculus plan to get as many people into VR and not necessary make expensive headsets, then it's an excellent idea by them to make their Oculus Quest tether to a PC.
    I will be looking to get an Oculus Quest now since it offers something more then just been a mobile device. I just hope the cable isn't priced ridiculously.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,907 Valuable Player
    Yeah @dburne - we tried to propose this shift, but it was a little too much to take at the time. Not sure this will sink in till the full announcements are made. The situation with how Quest Link fits into the the future of PC VR is going to not really sink in till we see the reaction of the first users - those comments about latency in the TESTED report is telling.

    Also agree @bigmike20vt - we are wandering in the dark to ascertain the relationship - certain executives departed OculusVR when the dropping of the rumored Half-Dome (CV2) was superseded for the Rift-S scenario. That would suggest a more intense original association - no matter future spin. We expect the reality to leak out with the next departures (on both sides) as we have seen with the Chinese OculusGo Xiaomi situation. 
     
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