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Did Oculus just standardize 5-finger tracking and make hand-controllers obsolete??

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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 6,026 Volunteer Moderator
    Yeah, I think generally speaking, this will be great for non-gaming apps like real estate walkthroughs, virtual shopping, media players, interactive experiences, and demos for those non-gamer family members.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,443 Valuable Player
    Wildt said:
    kojack said:
    One of the attendees wrote this on twitter:
    After playing with the Quest’s hand tracking at #OC6:
    I’d put it at ~60% Leap Motion’s fidelity
    ~200ms latency was most distracting
    Finger occlusion was comparable
    Pinch interactions very solid
    Any fast movements immediately freeze at the hand model’s last known location

    Given that it’s an early-2020 beta there’s time to continue honing Most of the affordances in the mad scientist’s lair demo were pinch or poke interactions, with no graspable objects, so I can’t speak to more active manipulations

    The tracking volume was sufficiently wide, reaching the edge of the FOV fine On a couple of occasions the hand models swapped left and right hands facing backwards which happens on Leap v4 as well






    Someone still has a lot of work to do apparently :)

    This tech is being open-sourced, iirc. So... we ALL have a lot of work to do apparently :p
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,785 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Zenbane said:
    Wildt said:
    kojack said:
    One of the attendees wrote this on twitter:
    After playing with the Quest’s hand tracking at #OC6:
    I’d put it at ~60% Leap Motion’s fidelity
    ~200ms latency was most distracting
    Finger occlusion was comparable
    Pinch interactions very solid
    Any fast movements immediately freeze at the hand model’s last known location

    Given that it’s an early-2020 beta there’s time to continue honing Most of the affordances in the mad scientist’s lair demo were pinch or poke interactions, with no graspable objects, so I can’t speak to more active manipulations

    The tracking volume was sufficiently wide, reaching the edge of the FOV fine On a couple of occasions the hand models swapped left and right hands facing backwards which happens on Leap v4 as well






    Someone still has a lot of work to do apparently :)

    This tech is being open-sourced, iirc. So... we ALL have a lot of work to do apparently :p
    Wow you turned out to be smarter than I thought and can predict the future. I couldnt understand why you wouldn't buy a rift s when the kinks were worked out. 

    Edit: Ps someone got offended what I said. I was just joking with u. Out of curiosity would you have known that? Omg the world is to sensitive. Everyone gets a trophy so they wont feel bad
  • MradrMradr Posts: 4,163 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    inovator said:
    [...]
    Maybe I am miss reading it - but please note this can go against the TOS of the forum and consider a person attack - please reword your message if you can... both parties might have a laugh - but don't start a fight please=)
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,785 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    inovator said:
    [...]
    Maybe I am miss reading it - but please note this can go against the TOS of the forum and consider a person attack - please reword your message if you can... both parties might have a laugh - but don't start a fight please=)
    Mradr said:
    inovator said:
    [...]
    Maybe I am miss reading it - but please note this can go against the TOS of the forum and consider a person attack - please reword your message if you can... both parties might have a laugh - but don't start a fight please=)
    Sorry for the misunderstanding. I actually like zenbane. He has a quest and was on the fence about buying a rift s. Now he wont have to since the quest PC  upgrade. I was just joking. 
  • MradrMradr Posts: 4,163 Valuable Player
    inovator said:

    Edit: Ps someone got offended what I said. I was just joking with u. Out of curiosity would you have known that? Omg the world is to sensitive. Everyone gets a trophy so they wont feel bad
    lol no one got offended:) Just it's a good day and don't wanna start it off bad like, you know what I mean=) OC is now :D lets have fun with all the good news=)
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,443 Valuable Player
    I'm actually glad Mradr mentioned something that led to clearing things up. I wasn't going to comment on it at first. I know inovator and myself are usually in friendly disagreement. But yeah, I couldn't tell if he was joking... or calling me a dumbass. LOL
    <3
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,785 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    I'm actually glad Mradr mentioned something that led to clearing things up. I wasn't going to comment on it at first. I know inovator and myself are usually in friendly disagreement. But yeah, I couldn't tell if he was joking... or calling me a dumbass. LOL
    <3
    Sometimes I have a dry sense of humor. But seriously it's good you waited. Now you can have your cake and eat it with your quest.  I think the s is more comfortable for me than my quest but not 400 dollars more comfortable if I had the quest only. It will be interesting to see if the higher resolution on PC makes it look better than the rift s since the quests native res is higher. My lack of knowledge makes me wonder if the 72 refresh rate on PC will pick up a little.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,443 Valuable Player

    So I had a thought based on all the feedback here,

    I suppose that the "hand strap" on Touch Controllers will be the most innovative feature once Pure Hand Tracking is released??!

    Think about it... your controllers can hang at your wrists while your real hand is being track. And then with a quick flick of the wrist, you have the physical controller back in your hand. You could even have a controller in one hand and your real hand tracked on the other.

    Interesting combinations and a variety of possibilities here! RPG combat could get a serious upgrade.
  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 825
    3Jane
    Morgrum said:
    Whelp here comes hand tracked VR Porn mark my words!
    I guess for one hand anyway....
  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,797 Volunteer Moderator

    Morgrum said:
    Whelp here comes hand tracked VR Porn mark my words!
    Already happened. Waifu Sex Simulator has Leap Motion hand tracking.


    Hand tracking is lacking the inertial measurements needed for occluded movement (and currently the hands freeze when moving too fast or not visible) that Touch controllers have. But this could actually be fixed. An IMU with bluetooth module and a small battery could be made very small and attached to a velcro or elastic band that goes around your hand. Think a smaller fitbit, but on your hand rather than wrist. It would have almost zero impact on your hands (can still type, etc) but it would provide the inertial tracking needed for hands to move fast and keep tracking off camera for a short period, plus assist with recognition (since orientation would be easier to identify). No finger tracking for grabbing when off camera, but better than nothing.

    But I doubt they'd make that, so I won't go on about it.
    (I've helped my students make custom bluetooth/IMU game controllers, it's not hard. Just getting them small is tricky without better equipment).
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  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,194
    Wintermute
    dburne said:
    Yeah that would be very cool in DCS.
    One can already use Touch to manipulate switches, using straight hands would seem awesome.
    But yeah, I can't see myself losing my joystick hardware anytime soon. 
    FlyInside already supports Leap Motion. It's great when it works, but does need some configuration to get it to not trigger when you don't want it to (e.g. if your real-world joystick is close to controls in the cockpit).

    This tech is supplemental, not a true replacement.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 4,163 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    kojack said:
    But I doubt they'd make that, so I won't go on about it.
    (I've helped my students make custom bluetooth/IMU game controllers, it's not hard. Just getting them small is tricky without better equipment).
    They are still working on that glove design - so couldn't you still use a glove with IMUs to get data of the rotation of the fingers by placing a IMU on each one - then you remove some of that "delay" and lost of tracking if you move too fast?

    What's fun is you could even add some IR tracking there for even allowing it to work outside of your front view vision but still have even more tracking reliability when it is in front of a camera.
  • GreymanGreyman Posts: 1,324
    Wintermute
    edited September 2019
    don't you think that there might just be a chance that the hand/finger tracking is aimed more at social media interaction, as a prelude to the face and body tracking stuff that was also on display at OC6? 

    The ability to use hand gestures will always add something to a conversation.  :)
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,443 Valuable Player
    Satirical meme on the topic that is floating around the Internet today,


  • ElusiveMarlinElusiveMarlin Posts: 299
    Nexus 6
    When all is said and done, the finger tracking control will at least put an end to the touch controller battery drain issue :D
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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,785 Valuable Player
    When all is said and done, the finger tracking control will at least put an end to the touch controller battery drain issue :D
    Even oculus said it will be a supplement not a replacement.
  • ElusiveMarlinElusiveMarlin Posts: 299
    Nexus 6
    inovator said:
    When all is said and done, the finger tracking control will at least put an end to the touch controller battery drain issue :D
    Even oculus said it will be a supplement not a replacement.
    I knew that.  Was just a bit of light-hearted humour! :-)
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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,785 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    When all is said and done, the finger tracking control will at least put an end to the touch controller battery drain issue :D
    Even oculus said it will be a supplement not a replacement.
    I knew that.  Was just a bit of light-hearted humour! :-)
    Oh my bad.
  • YoLolo69YoLolo69 Posts: 1,140
    Wintermute
    Zenbane said:
    Satirical meme on the topic that is floating around the Internet today,



    Those deepfakes photo montage scare me as hell as I barely see if those are real pictures of them!

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  • MradrMradr Posts: 4,163 Valuable Player
    edited October 2019
    I wounder - if we could combine them in a way - still your hands would be in controllers - but we could remove the need for finger tracking from them and let the sensors/camera track them instead. This would make the controllers even cheaper to produce, less complex in design, and use less battery for them. The downside is you would need to always be in front of the cameras for it to track them - but not too many ppl use them in a way that requires them to work from behind anyways or not in front of them.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,785 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    I wounder - if we could combine them in a way - still your hands would be in controllers - but we could remove the need for finger tracking from them and let the sensors/camera track them instead. This would make the controllers even cheaper to produce, less complex in design, and use less battery for them. The downside is you would need to always be in front of the cameras for it to track them - but not too many ppl use them in a way that requires them to work from behind anyways or not in front of them.
    If you mean combine tracking and hands I believe they said it's difficult because one has to be switched off to use the other. Sorry I'm sure they explained it better.
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 6,026 Volunteer Moderator
    Yup, maybe in a future iteration hands and controllers could be tracked together, but the current solution involves changing the camera exposure to track hands versus tracking controllers.
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