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The VARJO thread (please keep to subject)

kevinw729
Honored Visionary
Just back from #AWE_EU_2019 - and had a chance to use the new VARJO VR2 Pro - the system comes with dedicated Enterprise support and even includes a built in Leap Motion platform. We tried the eye tracking, the hand tracking and liked the quality of the image. The 1:1 eye-resolution screen quality makes this a serious contender.

Here is a little coverage of the system:
https://varjo.com/products/vr-2-pro/

And some images from the show:
31y2tkdwql43.png

Other than the price any of the posters here consider having this?
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
31 REPLIES 31

kevinw729
Honored Visionary
That is a really excellent point @Mradr - the difference between immersive-training and just general VR deployment are considerable. The Enterprise sector has continued to use "Head-Mounted-Displays" long after the crash of the first phase of adoption of VR. And unlike the hype filled "Top-Trumps" spec run-down that most VR forums descended into, the Enterprise Vis-Sim sector look for quality of image for training and performance. FOV and compact size are issues that are secondary. The current situation with StarVR and the VRgineer platforms aside, the VR-2 is shaping up to be a very suitable Vis-Sim and immersive CAD platform - while the consumer VR community will poke holes at price and FOV. I worry that at some point the consumer VR forums may wake up to the situation that the caravan has moved on, and their "needs" may not be relevant. 
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

I tried the first Varjo headset earlier this year (first production, not a dev kit) and yes, was quite blown away (only seeing 2 demos), especially by the eye tracking which was pin-point and just 20 seconds to calibrate!  

Stepping away from gaming, the headsets i recommend these days are the Rift S and Samsung Odyssey + - the reason is ease of use, controllers and image quality (price?  yes, probably)  
Price wouldn't matter if i believed the users needed something that the Varjo had and the others didn't but the software i and others use just don't need that resolution.

Inside out tracking is so much easier than the external sensors - ok, if it is just the one setup that's fine but many people are taking VR on the road.

My one item on the wish list these days is larger FOV, so 87 doesn't cut it.  It's all a balancing act at the moment.
Big PC, all the headsets, now using Quest 3

Luciferous
Consultant

Mradr said:



87 is pretty poor no matter how clear the display is. Complete immersion killer. I have no doubt that it is also the max FOV and in reality it is probably less. I was also pretty disappointed when Oculus said they had reduced the half dome prototype FOV. 




These headsets are not really about immersion - but more about how to train users on a task or looking at fine details. More or less you wouldn't need that much FOV to see that. Aka, its a bit of moot point to complain about the FOV when it's not about immersion/gaming. 


No it's not a moot point, if you read Kevin's intro he asks, would we be interested in using this headset despite the price. Hence I said no the FOV sucks.

So it was not that great a point with regard to my response but I am sure if anybody had commented on the importance of immersion in the VR commercial world it would have been very profound.

kojack
MVP
MVP

RuneSR2 said:


kevinw729 said:

Like Index, Pimax and the new DE VR headset - they all share the open-source Valve Lighthouse and controllers @RuneSR2 - this approach offers a chance for adoption, rather than building a walled garden.




If working with Knuckles, Varjo VR2 Pro could indeed be very interesting, but fov and especially the price would probably then be the main issues.


Well, since the Varjo doesn't support it's key feature (dual res overlapped screens for 60ppd) when using steamvr, how well does their proprietary sdk (needed for the screens to run their best) support knuckles? Does their sdk replace all of steamvr or only the rendering part of it? Do you need a hybrid of steamvr input and varjo sdk rendering?


Author: Oculus Monitor,  Auto Oculus Touch,  Forum Dark Mode, Phantom Touch Remover,  X-Plane Fixer
Hardware: Threadripper 1950x, MSI Gaming Trio 2080TI, Asrock X399 Taich
Headsets: Wrap 1200VR, DK1, DK2, CV1, Rift-S, GearVR, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Reverb G2

hoppingbunny123
Rising Star
idk about buying it but if i had the option of renting one if i bought my own faceplate for an addition 50 cad on top of the rental fee i would like to play with it for a day for 100 bucks. maybe 75 cad. add in shipping looking at 200 bucks to rent it for a day. yolo.

RedRizla
Honored Visionary
I'm just glad HP Reverb came along and saved the day for those people wanting the best image quality ever. It blows the rest of the competition out of the water in this regard. I'm seeing an image that Oculus HTC and Valve won't see for years to come. Then maybe when that day come - HP will save the day again and double the resolution of a HP Reverb+ 😄
I feel I'm light years into the future from a Rift S with the HP Reverb's resolution. I'm even going to buy another one soon just in case HP decide to shelve them at any point in the near future.

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

RedRizla said:

I'm just glad HP Reverb came along and saved the day for those people wanting the best image quality ever. It blows the rest of the competition out of the water in this regard. I'm seeing an image that Oculus HTC and Valve won't see for years to come. Then maybe when that day come - HP will save the day again and double the resolution of a HP Reverb+ 😄
I feel I'm light years into the future from a Rift S with the HP Reverb's resolution. I'm even going to buy another one soon just in case HP decide to shelve them at any point in the near future.



Those are good points - I guess a new HMD with higher res than Reverb should provide some new tech to lower hardware requirements compared to the Reverb - or at least offer much better tracking and controllers. But Reverb with 4K res for just $500 is probably very hard to trounce...   

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Anonymous
Not applicable



Mradr said:



87 is pretty poor no matter how clear the display is. Complete immersion killer. I have no doubt that it is also the max FOV and in reality it is probably less. I was also pretty disappointed when Oculus said they had reduced the half dome prototype FOV. 




These headsets are not really about immersion - but more about how to train users on a task or looking at fine details. More or less you wouldn't need that much FOV to see that. Aka, its a bit of moot point to complain about the FOV when it's not about immersion/gaming. 


No it's not a moot point, if you read Kevin's intro he asks, would we be interested in using this headset despite the price. Hence I said no the FOV sucks.

So it was not that great a point with regard to my response but I am sure if anybody had commented on the importance of immersion in the VR commercial world it would have been very profound.


Oh sorry. Hmm, but most users here are gammers rather than CAD programmers or software training users. If we look at it from its real audience (witch is what I thought Kevin was meaning) then have to break it down. FOV unless it's super small - its a bit of a moot point from that view. It's actually around the same FOV as one of the first DK units. Over all CAD just want to make sure what they are looking at works and rather have more detail than FOV to they can see how something reacts or looks. After that - I would have to look at how to make it work type thing. Having to use their SDK seems like I would have to custom create software to use it and that might be the first problem. It cost a ton to make apps/programs so that would be out of the question for a lot of users that might want to use it with their CAD software if it doesn't support it nativity. Then there is the price. The price really isn't that high - but this added "support" fee seems a bit silly. Like being nickle and dime for little reason. Granted, I know why they do it - but the customer already bought your product - not like you really offer much more support after that. Then there are the features it does support. such as higher clearity and eye tracking. This would be useful for like training on the human body and/or areas of research where we need clear idea in what we are looking at. 

So, while I dont think it be for everyone - I can still see a need for this type of device in the future or for fields that really need the best of the best. For gamers - this is is a bit of a moot point in looking at this headset because of price alone - but just over all it doesn't support the software we would need it to support in the first place. On the other hand, if you are into the medical field and trying to perform a surgery over xxxx distant away using VR - you would want the HIGHEST clarity you can get with eye tracking supporting you as you work. More or less this headset is for primary CAD though for now. They wont be Oculus size - but they might be able to swim around the enterpise pool long as they keep their niche reason to keep around.

Short of the problems of the other companies - I do wonder how Enterprise only headsets will be able to continue to keep growing in. There is money there - but can't be that much of a pool to really be that amazing in without dipping toes into the customer market at some point. Once the perfect Enterprise headset comes along that check marks all the boxes - it'll be a hard sell for other headsets I would assume. This headset markets the final boxes for clarity and eye tracking. A few more boxes and I am sure it'll be the go to Enterprise headset. On the other hand, you do have the Pimax coming up behind that with boxers check for FOV and soon eye tracking as well with only being limited to hardware that could run higher res screens just needing to scale with the technology.

remi_arnaud
Honored Guest


RuneSR2 said:


Varjo would have to make controllers and tracking similar or better compared to Index controllers..


Varjo VR2 is compatible with Index controllers; it is using LH tracking. 

RuneSR2
Grand Champion




RuneSR2 said:


Varjo would have to make controllers and tracking similar or better compared to Index controllers..


Varjo VR2 is compatible with Index controllers; it is using LH tracking. 


Admitted, this does look incredible:

Vive Pro:
aoizehx0z63y.png

Varjo VR2 Pro:
k45d43xcgjfl.png

- and I do like the design:
8elocb5dxcho.jpg

SteamVR compatibility is great, but $5K will be way too expensive for most enthusiasts - even if you can play Half-Life VR in "retina res". Eye relief would probably be important for immersion, 87 degrees fov does sound as too small - especially when used to the Index (or Pimax). 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"