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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

Techy111
MVP
MVP
As per the title, please respect the users who post here and keep it on topic, any nonsense and......grrr
A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

2,973 REPLIES 2,973

Anonymous
Not applicable
Just to spark another thing (this is to spark conversation - I know these games are good products) - you know the games coming out for Index like Boneworks and HFA are not that important. Really, its the idea of the fact games CAN be made with VR in mind and the modding of HFA that will keep drawing in VR users instead. The tools to make good VR will now be in the hands of others as well exploring different use cases we can use VR and what can make a good game out of them. The main problem with VR in general from a dev stand point is just that it takes a long time to really throw a good VR games together and play well with what we have now and not just a modded VR addon. HFA is a door open for everyone to really start playing with VR and expanding on the power of others and improving on what we can have later. Wouldn't think moving a card board box would mean much until you do it in VR - and as a dev - who really has the time to program all the small details + still make and fill out the story.

pyroth309
Visionary

RuneSR2 said:


Mradr said:

Too bad VR isnt big enough to support two different products - one with OLED and one with LCD for different price points xD



That's why I'm thinking that Vive Pro with Knuckles may be close to an optimal solution for now - but then again you'll lack asw 2.0 and have reduced fov... 

I've said it before - we need Index with Quest (or Vive Pro) displays and fully supported by Oculus software, how hard can that be? 😄 And again for some games the high res would still be a problem at least until we get the 3080 Ti...

I'm sure Valve is aware of such performance problems and that's why I like seeing GTX 1060 6GB as the recommended card for Alyx - but Valve may be able to create performance like only previously seen in Lone Echo and maybe Stormland...  

I've said this before, but when I had an Index, the LCD screen didn't immerse me as much as my old CV1 did in some games. The Index showed much more detail and revaled a lot more flaws that kept telling my brain that this is a game and not real. Obviously this will be different for different people but that was my experience with it and I also wished it had more of a color pop but I found the colors good.

I also agree that we don't have the one headset to rule them all yet. Index was quite disappointing to me personally in several areas but I still felt like it's the best overall package if you take cost out of it. (excluding pimax 8kx or more expensive headsets) At the 1k price tag it's a hard justification to make. It's absurd that the controllers cost what they do and have so many problems. I'm leaning to rebuying one but a part of me wants to just wait and see what's coming since my playtime is so low right now anyway. I have money set aside for a 3080Ti build (if it's a better jump than the 2080Ti). I may just wait until I get that and see where we are.

Just to spark another thing (this is to spark conversation - I know
these games are good products) - you know the games coming out for Index
like Boneworks and HFA are not that important. Really, its the idea of
the fact games CAN be made with VR in mind and the modding of HFA that
will keep drawing in VR users instead. The tools to make good VR will
now be in the hands of others as well exploring different use cases we
can use VR and what can make a good game out of them. The main problem
with VR in general from a dev stand point is just that it takes a long
time to really throw a good VR games together and play well with what we
have now and not just a modded VR addon. HFA is a door open for
everyone to really start playing with VR and expanding on the power of
others and improving on what we can have later. Wouldn't think moving a
card board box would mean much until you do it in VR - and as a dev -
who really has the time to program all the small details + still make
and fill out the story.

Yea, hopefully games like HFA can open the eyes of consumers and more people try VR. I'm not optimistic that we'll be leaving niche category anytime soon though. Hopefully Sony still follows through on a PSVR 2 to spark some more interest from the console side. Quest adding the ability to play from PC is also a great thing.

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
My Index Overload Management Gear™ just arrived!  B)

https://youtu.be/N3gwq5jbKLA


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Yup - the thumbstick clicks in all directions😄

Hmmm, so now it's over using dirty non-Valve controllers with the Index!  o:)

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Maxxgold
Rising Star

Spuzzum said:

I'm in Van myself...Strathcona. Thanks for the review. I was considering it for the 120Hz, and originally the off-the-ear headphones sounded cool, but then I got to thinking that I'd just hear my fridge hum, and my neighbours' noise, taking me out of that immersion. I'm in a bachelor suite, with thin walls. I usually keep a spot fan running just for white noise to drown it out. And as cool as the Knuckles are, how much does it really add to the game to be able to use each finger individually? Except for hand gestures, not much. I'll pass.


The totality of all the features of the Index are overwhelming. If you just look at the resolution alone, maybe it is not worth it, or, if you just look at the increased field of view alone, it might not be worth it, or, if you hear how amazing the sound alone is, it might not be worth it, or, if you only look at the increased frame rate of 120hz alone, it might not be worth it, or finally, if you were just getting the new controllers alone, it might not be worth it.

But, all of that together is well worth it. I have mine running on a 2080ti and it runs 120hz, and that alone is game changing enough for me to justify the upgrade. My CV1 in comparison is a nausea, vomit inducing experience compared to the 120hz delivered by the Index. Combined with all the above enhancements, the Valve Index is worth every penny. The guy above seems to be factoring in the financial aspect of the value compared to the experience, and if you do that, then you really shouldn’t purchase the Valve Index. 

Also, the sound is truly amazing, there isn’t a headset with more immersive sound that I have tried yet. 

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
Firewatch is one of my favorite games - still sad to have finished it:

https://youtu.be/cXWlgP5hZzc

Firewatch was made by Campo Santo Productions, which was later bought by ... Valve! Now it turns out that Campo Santo devs have helped making Alyx - and therefore had to put their other game In the Valley of the Gods on hold:
"To fans looking forward to In the Valley of Gods, it’s probably clear that the optimistic “2019” at the end of the announcement trailer isn’t going to be accurate. In the end, Valve Time makes fools of us all. But yes, developers from the former Campo Santo team have joined other projects at Valve, including Half-Life: Alyx. As you can imagine, our experience in the first-person adventure genre is pretty relevant. You hear a lot about how at Valve you can work on what you want. It turns out that’s true, and there’s a lot of work available. As we integrated ourselves into Valve it became clear there was a lot of valuable work to be done on Half-Life: Alyx. Some of us starting lending a hand, and have since become full-time on the project as it approaches launch. Similarly, some ex-Campos are working on Dota Underlords, some are on Steam, and so on. So to answer your question as of today, In the Valley of Gods development is on hold—but it certainly feels like a project people can and may return to. And when that happens, we’ll find an exciting way to let fans know."
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/12/04/firewatch-devs-put-in-the-valley-of-gods-on-hold/#more-7...
I'm still thinking that one flagship may a be new game not associated to existing franchises, but although In the Valley of the Gods does look great and could work well in VR, I doubt it'll be one of the flagships...

https://youtu.be/m6mQCNUnWnM

Reading that Campo Santo devs are working on Alyx did make Alyx sound even more interesting to me - I'd love a great story beyond shooting stuff 😉

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

Maxxgold said:


Spuzzum said:

I'm in Van myself...Strathcona. Thanks for the review. I was considering it for the 120Hz, and originally the off-the-ear headphones sounded cool, but then I got to thinking that I'd just hear my fridge hum, and my neighbours' noise, taking me out of that immersion. I'm in a bachelor suite, with thin walls. I usually keep a spot fan running just for white noise to drown it out. And as cool as the Knuckles are, how much does it really add to the game to be able to use each finger individually? Except for hand gestures, not much. I'll pass.


The totality of all the features of the Index are overwhelming. If you just look at the resolution alone, maybe it is not worth it, or, if you just look at the increased field of view alone, it might not be worth it, or, if you hear how amazing the sound alone is, it might not be worth it, or, if you only look at the increased frame rate of 120hz alone, it might not be worth it, or finally, if you were just getting the new controllers alone, it might not be worth it.

But, all of that together is well worth it. I have mine running on a 2080ti and it runs 120hz, and that alone is game changing enough for me to justify the upgrade. My CV1 in comparison is a nausea, vomit inducing experience compared to the 120hz delivered by the Index. Combined with all the above enhancements, the Valve Index is worth every penny. The guy above seems to be factoring in the financial aspect of the value compared to the experience, and if you do that, then you really shouldn’t purchase the Valve Index. 

Also, the sound is truly amazing, there isn’t a headset with more immersive sound that I have tried yet. 



Fully agree that the sum of its parts makes Index a true gen 2 compared to CV1, although I still find CV1 of great use in many games. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

parsecn
Heroic Explorer

I must say, I'm 3 hours in and a little miffed with the Index experience so far. So far I owned Gear VR, Google Daydream, Rift, Rift S, a Quest, and now an Index, and I was expecting more. 

I can appreciate that you're well versed in VR demonstrated in ownership of multiple headsets eg you know what you're doing, but I so often see these 2 or 3 hour-in knee-jerk Index reviews where the user hasn't fully dialed-in display or really grabbed the sweet spot, SS, etc. 

They'll often come back and edit the post to say that the thing is amazing and that it took time to settle in. I hope this is the case with your purchase.  

Maxxgold said:

The totality of all the features of the Index are overwhelming.

Combined with all the above enhancements, the Valve Index is worth every penny. The guy above seems to be factoring in the financial aspect of the value compared to the experience, and if you do that, then you really shouldn’t purchase the Valve Index. 



The totality comment is spot on. It's a sharp perspective and sums the device well.

I also appreciate the comment of financial aspect vs value compared to experience. I haven't sort of figured out how to word that concept well and respectfully, and I do think it's an important one that you've also summed well. To my mind, $1000 dollars is not some Herculean investment in VR, even if you've heavily invested in something like CV1 with 4 sensors and multiple games, etc. 

Borscht4eVR
Heroic Explorer

RuneSR2 said:
You can check in SteamVR that all button presses register. According to Valve, thumbstick pressed down may not click, but it must register. 


It does register. But there's a definitive asymmetry in the behavior of the left controller when compared to the right one. My right controller clicks in every position. My left one clicks in all positions except left.

Valve's claim that tactile click absence is an expected behavior was a BS excuse on the Index launch - an "oh crap, what do we tell everyone" reaction to realization they may be facing a massive recall. This was demonstrated by the fact that some people had working controllers, while others had either symmetric or asymmetric click responses.

If it is indeed intended, they did a poor job of making good on their intent, cause the click feature somehow did make it on my right controller just fine.

What's the cost of the pair of knuckles in the USA? Where I am they sell for mere 360 Canadian pesos. So yeah; Valve needs to fix this.

Heck, if I bought a car, and my turn signal didn't click, no amount of convincing that it's a designed feature would fly. Clicking of the turn signal is a standard feature, in spite of the fact that relays are extinct these days (that is what did the clicking in the decades before digital tech made it into our dashboards). Some car manufacturers even give users an option to have the sound turned off, but the click is still a standard feature that's on by default. Much like clicking on even the cheapest of the no-name gaming controllers.

Few months ago, my second Quest arrived with a dead green subpixel in my right eye (actually a "live" one cause it was always on). It wasn't a big deal cause I'd only see it when a scene went completely black, and even then barely so - a subpixel is a tiny fraction of a pixel, and is super hard to notice on its own. But Oculus replaced my headset, no questions asked. And this is for a VR kit that's a fraction of a price of the Index.

Borscht4eVR
Heroic Explorer
Sorry for ranting, Rune. It's not your fault, and totally not aimed at you. I got irked when Valve first tried to spin the clickgate, but I had no skin in the game back then so I stayed on the sidelines and watched.

But now I do (have skin in the game). Fifteen hundred bucks and a faulty controller later, I got triggered when the memory of their shitty PR got jogged.

Borscht4eVR
Heroic Explorer
Does anyone know if there are any plans for the development of ASW-like tech for Index? 

I'm aware that ASW is Oculus' baby and as such, FB has the tech patented. But surely Valve could take the idea and create their own solution