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Quest Link - as good as a Rift?

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,345 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    Hmmm, yes, res beyond Reverb would be awesome, and a RTX 5080 Ti to drive it  B)

    I'm still sad about the 10-20 fps I'm getting in Lone Echo Index res 200% and 4xMSAA...

    For XR2 I can't help thinking that a GTX 1060 is about 10 times faster than Quest, and if XR2 has twice the gpu performance as Quest, then GTX 1060 will be like 5 times faster than Quest 2? ;) 


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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,247 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    I guess but if it has a link to the PC which I am sure is a given, then it won't be using the on-board processor but the PC.

    Which means higher res screens, refresh rates and maybe some of the half dome technologies. Plus better wireless gaming.
  • cmaffia2019cmaffia2019 Posts: 9
    NerveGear
    I have both Rift S and Quest.  Rift S still better graphically.  Yes, natively the Quest is slightly better than Rift S but there's significant downgrade once you use Link. 

    So apples to apples comparison to the Rift S, the Quest is heavier, less comfortable, PC graphics less superior & there is a slight input lag.......I am struggling with how this is a "Rift S killer"?  

    Thinks not!
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 1,691
    Project 2501
    I guess but if it has a link to the PC which I am sure is a given, then it won't be using the on-board processor but the PC.

    Which means higher res screens, refresh rates and maybe some of the half dome technologies. Plus better wireless gaming.
    I agree, but, in order to fully harness the power from your PC a Link that goes into your GPU DisplayPort plus usb 3.0/3.1 will be necessary imho.  A single usb 3.0/3.1 connection is never going to accomplish the data speeds necessary for good PCVR.  Esp. with high demand Flight and Racing sims.

    Custom built gaming desktop; i9 9900k (water cooled) oc to 5ghz, gtx 1080 ti (from my old AGA), 32 gb 3000hz ram, 1 tb ssd, 4 tb hdd.  Asus  ROG Maximus xi hero wifi mb, StarTech 4 port/4 controller sata powered usb3.0 pcie card, Asus VG248QE 1080p 144hz gaming monitor, Oculus Rift cv1 w/2x sensors, Vive Pro, Vive Cosmos, Vive Wireless.

  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,247 Valuable Player
    Well when I say link I just mean a connection. The current link was added as an after thought but I am pretty sure that won’t be the case next time.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,345 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    Tyriel made this video:


    I did find it very disappointing and think his comparisons may be highly problematic - that's why I did not post the video in here before. I wrote this comment on Reddit (and also to Tyriel directly on YouTube - he has not provided an answer, which to me makes it all even worse):

    I don't see any disclosure of ss levels used. I guess we have all gone to school, and what can we conclude of a comparison when not knowing if Tyriel used for example ss 1.0 or 2.0 for the CV1?

    I like Tyriel's video and surely it must be a lot of work, but to adhere to just a minimum of scientific standards it's extremely important to disclose ss levels used. Right now Tyriel could have compared super-blurry CV1 ss 1.0 to ultra-sharp Rift-S ss 2.0, we simply don't know! (Ok, he probably did not do that, this is just to illustrate the potential bias)

    If Tyriel used CV1 ss 1.0, this comparison may be dangerously misleading. Ss greatly affects CV1 image quality, ss 1.0 vs 2.0 is like night vs. day, but it seems ss does not affect Quest image quality a lot due to the streaming.

    In short, be very careful making any conclusions when ss levels are not provided.

    Also note that ss may have no impact on the SDE seen in Tyriel's video, but it may greatly affect the image quality and sharpness. I consider it extremely unprofessional not to disclose the ss levels used - maybe easier to accept if he just used default settings to compare for example Index vs. Cosmos vs. Rift-S, but still we don't know if he did that! Unless we agree that ss has no impact on image quality, Tyriel's comparisons seem highly problematic and potentially misleading - like "I just bought Quest + Link, but my CV1 ss 2.0 is so much sharper - but I based my purchase on Tyriel's video that showed that Quest was better!???". 

    There're tons of comments showing that Tyriel's results are accepted as pure facts and hard evidence, and that's very worrying to me - at least until Tyriel discloses the ss levels he used for each hmd.

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 1,691
    Project 2501
    All that is necessary is for him to show in-lens comparisons with X-Plane 11 in VR, in real time.  Lower resolution and FPS will be pretty obvious compared to most current PCVR headsets imho.

    Custom built gaming desktop; i9 9900k (water cooled) oc to 5ghz, gtx 1080 ti (from my old AGA), 32 gb 3000hz ram, 1 tb ssd, 4 tb hdd.  Asus  ROG Maximus xi hero wifi mb, StarTech 4 port/4 controller sata powered usb3.0 pcie card, Asus VG248QE 1080p 144hz gaming monitor, Oculus Rift cv1 w/2x sensors, Vive Pro, Vive Cosmos, Vive Wireless.

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,869 Valuable Player
    Comparisons through the lenses are useless IMHO. In some of those screen shots the Oculus Link looks better then Rift S and we all know that can't be the case. 
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,564 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    Comparisons through the lenses are useless IMHO. In some of those screen shots the Oculus Link looks better then Rift S and we all know that can't be the case. 
    Sarcasm?
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,869 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    Mradr said:
    RedRizla said:
    Comparisons through the lenses are useless IMHO. In some of those screen shots the Oculus Link looks better then Rift S and we all know that can't be the case. 
    Sarcasm?

    According to the majority of people Rift S is better, but through the lens shots as seen in this video makes the Oculus Quest Link look better to me. I came to realise that through the lens videos' don't give good results when my HP Reverb looked about 35% better then it does on through the lens video.
  • MaxxgoldMaxxgold Posts: 498
    Trinity
    edited December 2019
    RedRizla said:
    Comparisons through the lenses are useless IMHO. In some of those screen shots the Oculus Link looks better then Rift S and we all know that can't be the case. 
    I think the only place where the Quest Link looked better than the S is with the black levels for Elite Dangerous, and with the lenses in the Quest, I believe that is the case. I still enjoy my DK2 for the amazing black levels playing Elite Dangerous. I’m hoping the black levels I saw in the comparison video are accurate. The CV1 looked completely accurate. I can’t even play Elite Dangerous with my CV1 because the black levels are so bad. 

    Getting my Quest today, and I look forward to making my own comparisons. 
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,869 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    Maxxgold said:
    RedRizla said:
    Comparisons through the lenses are useless IMHO. In some of those screen shots the Oculus Link looks better then Rift S and we all know that can't be the case. 
    I think the only place where the Quest Link looked better than the S is with the black levels for Elite Dangerous, and with the lenses in the Quest, I believe that is the case. I still enjoy my DK2 for the amazing black levels playing Elite Dangerous. I’m hoping the black levels I saw in the comparison video are accurate. The CV1 looked completely accurate. I can’t even play Elite Dangerous with my CV1 because the black levels are so bad. 

    Getting my Quest today, and I look forward to making my own comparisons. 

    CV1 uses Oled displays, so not sure why the black levels in Elite Dangerous would be bad for you. Most people like Elite Dangerous in the CV1 because of the black levels. The lenses in the Rift S are also better then the Oculus Quest lenses because Rift S came after the Oculus Quest and so it uses the Oculus Go lenses, which are excellent lenses. Maybe you are getting confused with Godrays in the CV1 and not the black levels.
  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,997 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    RedRizla said:
    Maxxgold said:
    RedRizla said:
    Comparisons through the lenses are useless IMHO. In some of those screen shots the Oculus Link looks better then Rift S and we all know that can't be the case. 
    I think the only place where the Quest Link looked better than the S is with the black levels for Elite Dangerous, and with the lenses in the Quest, I believe that is the case. I still enjoy my DK2 for the amazing black levels playing Elite Dangerous. I’m hoping the black levels I saw in the comparison video are accurate. The CV1 looked completely accurate. I can’t even play Elite Dangerous with my CV1 because the black levels are so bad. 

    Getting my Quest today, and I look forward to making my own comparisons. 

    CV1 uses Oled displays, so not sure why the black levels in Elite Dangerous would be bad for you. Most people like Elite Dangerous in the CV1 because of the black levels. The lenses in the Rift S are also better then the Oculus Quest lenses because Rift S came after the Oculus Quest and so it uses the Oculus Go lenses, which are excellent lenses.
    Well technically Rift S and Quest were released on the same date.
    However Quest was being developed much longer than the Rift S which was thrown together fairly rapidly.
    Don

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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,869 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    dburne said:
    RedRizla said:
    Maxxgold said:
    RedRizla said:
    Comparisons through the lenses are useless IMHO. In some of those screen shots the Oculus Link looks better then Rift S and we all know that can't be the case. 
    I think the only place where the Quest Link looked better than the S is with the black levels for Elite Dangerous, and with the lenses in the Quest, I believe that is the case. I still enjoy my DK2 for the amazing black levels playing Elite Dangerous. I’m hoping the black levels I saw in the comparison video are accurate. The CV1 looked completely accurate. I can’t even play Elite Dangerous with my CV1 because the black levels are so bad. 

    Getting my Quest today, and I look forward to making my own comparisons. 

    CV1 uses Oled displays, so not sure why the black levels in Elite Dangerous would be bad for you. Most people like Elite Dangerous in the CV1 because of the black levels. The lenses in the Rift S are also better then the Oculus Quest lenses because Rift S came after the Oculus Quest and so it uses the Oculus Go lenses, which are excellent lenses.
    Well technically Rift S and Quest were released on the same date.
    However Quest was being developed much longer than the Rift S which was thrown together fairly rapidly.

    I know this that why I said "The lenses in the Rift S are also better then the Oculus Quest lenses because Rift S came after the Oculus Quest and so it uses the Oculus Go lenses, which are excellent lenses". Or maybe I should have said Oculus Rift S was produced after the Oculus Quest.
  • MaxxgoldMaxxgold Posts: 498
    Trinity
    RedRizla said:
    Maxxgold said:
    RedRizla said:
    Comparisons through the lenses are useless IMHO. In some of those screen shots the Oculus Link looks better then Rift S and we all know that can't be the case. 
    I think the only place where the Quest Link looked better than the S is with the black levels for Elite Dangerous, and with the lenses in the Quest, I believe that is the case. I still enjoy my DK2 for the amazing black levels playing Elite Dangerous. I’m hoping the black levels I saw in the comparison video are accurate. The CV1 looked completely accurate. I can’t even play Elite Dangerous with my CV1 because the black levels are so bad. 

    Getting my Quest today, and I look forward to making my own comparisons. 

    CV1 uses Oled displays, so not sure why the black levels in Elite Dangerous would be bad for you. Most people like Elite Dangerous in the CV1 because of the black levels. The lenses in the Rift S are also better then the Oculus Quest lenses because Rift S came after the Oculus Quest and so it uses the Oculus Go lenses, which are excellent lenses. Maybe you are getting confused with Godrays in the CV1 not the black levels.
    Yeah, the God Rays are exactly what I was referencing. 

    They are so bad on the CV1, I can’t play Elite Dangerous with the CV1. The comparison video above demonstrates it perfectly. The Quest with the link looks much better in the video, and I’m looking forward to checking it out when my Quest arrives
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 1,691
    Project 2501
    Maxxgold said:
    RedRizla said:
    Maxxgold said:
    RedRizla said:
    Comparisons through the lenses are useless IMHO. In some of those screen shots the Oculus Link looks better then Rift S and we all know that can't be the case. 
    I think the only place where the Quest Link looked better than the S is with the black levels for Elite Dangerous, and with the lenses in the Quest, I believe that is the case. I still enjoy my DK2 for the amazing black levels playing Elite Dangerous. I’m hoping the black levels I saw in the comparison video are accurate. The CV1 looked completely accurate. I can’t even play Elite Dangerous with my CV1 because the black levels are so bad. 

    Getting my Quest today, and I look forward to making my own comparisons. 

    CV1 uses Oled displays, so not sure why the black levels in Elite Dangerous would be bad for you. Most people like Elite Dangerous in the CV1 because of the black levels. The lenses in the Rift S are also better then the Oculus Quest lenses because Rift S came after the Oculus Quest and so it uses the Oculus Go lenses, which are excellent lenses. Maybe you are getting confused with Godrays in the CV1 not the black levels.
    Yeah, the God Rays are exactly what I was referencing. 

    They are so bad on the CV1, I can’t play Elite Dangerous with the CV1. The comparison video above demonstrates it perfectly. The Quest with the link looks much better in the video, and I’m looking forward to checking it out when my Quest arrives
    If you cannot play dark background games like Elite with your Rift cv1 you might want to try turning Spud off.  This seems to help for some, including me.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/6tca7t/why_you_may_need_to_disable_spud_oled_mura/

    If you want almost perfect blacks, buy a Vive Pro, lol!  Good luck with your Quest PCVR wantabe.

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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,909 Valuable Player
    For me is the issue of using the Link, rather than what the lenses look like sticking a camera in the headset. We are seeing major questions raised on the Link performance, and this video just seemed to be a diversion. 
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  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 636
    Neo

    Maxxgold said:
    RedRizla said:
    Maxxgold said:
    RedRizla said:
    Comparisons through the lenses are useless IMHO. In some of those screen shots the Oculus Link looks better then Rift S and we all know that can't be the case. 
    I think the only place where the Quest Link looked better than the S is with the black levels for Elite Dangerous, and with the lenses in the Quest, I believe that is the case. I still enjoy my DK2 for the amazing black levels playing Elite Dangerous. I’m hoping the black levels I saw in the comparison video are accurate. The CV1 looked completely accurate. I can’t even play Elite Dangerous with my CV1 because the black levels are so bad. 

    Getting my Quest today, and I look forward to making my own comparisons. 

    CV1 uses Oled displays, so not sure why the black levels in Elite Dangerous would be bad for you. Most people like Elite Dangerous in the CV1 because of the black levels. The lenses in the Rift S are also better then the Oculus Quest lenses because Rift S came after the Oculus Quest and so it uses the Oculus Go lenses, which are excellent lenses. Maybe you are getting confused with Godrays in the CV1 not the black levels.
    Yeah, the God Rays are exactly what I was referencing. 

    They are so bad on the CV1, I can’t play Elite Dangerous with the CV1. The comparison video above demonstrates it perfectly. The Quest with the link looks much better in the video, and I’m looking forward to checking it out when my Quest arrives
    The god rays on the CV1 were always a issue at times, i found that in ED if i changed the hud colours to green and i lowered the games gamma way down it helped to a extent, and on other HMD like the Vive the god ray is not so smeared across the entire lens, but more of a lens flare type effect, i also tried the Gear VR mod and that removed all god rays completly and was a pin sharp as if it were a new modern HMD, was wonderful......just a pity it messed with the eye relief and caused me massive eye strain after 20 mins so i had to revert back to the original lens. lol
  • MaxxgoldMaxxgold Posts: 498
    Trinity
    I received my Quest yesterday, and I’m thoroughly testing it.

    I am using this cable from Amazon. 

    The cable worked perfectly. I did have to go into settings on the Quest after accepting all the prompts inside the headset, and select to enable the beta/link. I also had to set my sound inside windows to the device I use for sound. 

    The image detail was sharper and much easier to view when compared with my CV1. my eyes did not have to strain as much to read text or look at the scree. The added fan inside the Quest which provides a small amount of airflow to my eyes while using the Quest is really awesome. It definitely adds to the feeling of presence. 

    The first game I tested while linked was Beat Saber. SS set to 2.0. The image is sharper in the Quest compared to the CV1. I did not notice any compression. It was perfect. 

    Next I tried Alien Isolation. And the Quest linked provided a really good experience, the images when not compressed were sharper and much easier to look at. The fan once again really added to the immersion. They really need to add a fan inside all headsets to give that feeling of wind or air in your face. There was some mild compression while playing linked, and some pop in as well. The 72hz refresh rate was definitely noticeable as well. Not so much with the CV1, but coming from the  Valve Index, it is super noticeable. I still enjoyed the experience inside the Quest. 

     The refresh rate is where this headset is going to be held back when linked. If I had a CV1, I wouldn’t upgrade primarily to the Quest, but if I was just getting into VR, I would easily purchase the Quest over the Rift S. I don’t have a Rift S, so I can’t compare, but 80hz refresh rate is not going to work for me in games with real locomotion, and is really a let down. Although, if you just plan to be tethered to a PC, maybe the S would be better in that situation. 

    Hopefully someone will be able to unlock the refresh rate for the Quest, so we can increase it while linked. I’m just getting started, so I’ll post more after a few days
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,345 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    Maxxgold said:
    I received my Quest yesterday, and I’m thoroughly testing it.

    I am using this cable from Amazon. 

    The cable worked perfectly. I did have to go into settings on the Quest after accepting all the prompts inside the headset, and select to enable the beta/link. I also had to set my sound inside windows to the device I use for sound. 

    The image detail was sharper and much easier to view when compared with my CV1. my eyes did not have to strain as much to read text or look at the scree. The added fan inside the Quest which provides a small amount of airflow to my eyes while using the Quest is really awesome. It definitely adds to the feeling of presence. 

    The first game I tested while linked was Beat Saber. SS set to 2.0. The image is sharper in the Quest compared to the CV1. I did not notice any compression. It was perfect. 

    Next I tried Alien Isolation. And the Quest linked provided a really good experience, the images when not compressed were sharper and much easier to look at. The fan once again really added to the immersion. They really need to add a fan inside all headsets to give that feeling of wind or air in your face. There was some mild compression while playing linked, and some pop in as well. The 72hz refresh rate was definitely noticeable as well. Not so much with the CV1, but coming from the  Valve Index, it is super noticeable. I still enjoyed the experience inside the Quest. 

     The refresh rate is where this headset is going to be held back when linked. If I had a CV1, I wouldn’t upgrade primarily to the Quest, but if I was just getting into VR, I would easily purchase the Quest over the Rift S. I don’t have a Rift S, so I can’t compare, but 80hz refresh rate is not going to work for me in games with real locomotion, and is really a let down. Although, if you just plan to be tethered to a PC, maybe the S would be better in that situation. 

    Hopefully someone will be able to unlock the refresh rate for the Quest, so we can increase it while linked. I’m just getting started, so I’ll post more after a few days
    Thanks for the elaborate comparison. It could be interesting with Lone Echo ss 2.0 with temporal antialiasing. When you zoom out from a text texture (for example some sign or text on a wall), how far can you zoom out before the text is unreadable? That's how I could tell ss 1.7 from 2.0 ;)

    Sound quality (without adding extra headphones that are not part of the original product), tracking and controller quality - and hmd comfort - are important aspects of a comparison too. 
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
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