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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

Techy111
MVP
MVP
As per the title, please respect the users who post here and keep it on topic, any nonsense and......grrr
A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

2,973 REPLIES 2,973

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
One of my friends tried VR today - I had selected some titles for CV1 and Index, and I started showing him Art Plunge, which he liked a lot. Then Vader Immortal, a short walk in Stormland and Beat Saber - but then he got motion sickness probably from Stormland, and didn't even make it to Index, sigh. Seems motion sickness is still a thing. Some have said that the 120 Hz in Index reduced or even cured their motion sickness, maybe I should start with that next time...

Or maybe most of us in here are simply quite seasoned VR sailors never experiencing any motion sickness, lol. 

Image result for seasoned sailor storm

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Borscht4eVR
Heroic Explorer

RuneSR2 said:

... but then he got motion sickness probably from Stormland, and didn't even make it to Index, sigh. Seems motion sickness is still a thing. Some have said that the 120 Hz in Index reduced or even cured their motion sickness, maybe I should start with that next time...


What causes motion sickness was a heavily researched subject in the last few decades of the past millenium. A lot of what we learned back then came from looking into ways to reduce motion sickness for amusement park simulator rides (the kind where a patron is strapped into an articulating seat that is synched to a video projected on a screen in front of them).

Turns out our brains really don't like it when there's a mismatch between visual and inner ear inputs, although certain types of mismatch can become accustomed and ignored. For example - a lot of kids experience motion sickness after sitting in a moving vehicle. Their immediate visual frame of reference is the car they're in - eyes don't register the car movement (relative to the body), but the inner ear experiences all kinds of jostles. That discrepancy can be tolerated for a short while, but it often ends up causing motion sickness. That said, very few kids grow up into adults that continue experiencing motion sickness in a car - the brain eventually learns to ignore the wrong input and even to anticipate the G input from the road coming ahead.

Ships in rough seas do the same - eyes observe the environment as being still, but the inner ear signals movement. The discrepancy eventually causes sickness, but with time and repeated exposure, even the wimpiest grow accustomed to it.

In VR we have an inverse situation (eyes see movement while the inner ear registers no G forces), but the result of the same - brain sees a mismatch and out goes the lunch.

The best way to minimize motion sickness when you have a new person is to adjust their experience according to their ability to stomach motion (pun intended). I always ask anyone about to go into VR if they ever experience motion sickness. If they say yes, I'll only put them into experiences that are either static ( e.g. Oculus'  first steps), or I'll turn teleport-only, or I'll set the reduced FOV while moving if the app allows it (for example Comfort Mode in Google Earth VR).

If they say they have a gut of steel, I'll give them a full FOV experience, but I'll still make sure the speed movement across ground is set to minimum, and smooth rotation switched to incremental, or turned off completely (for example Talos Principle has several speed options and Lone Echo has the ability to disable yaw - unless they're a hard core gamer, let them use their feet to turn around)

Reason being is that once someone gets dick in VR, they'll be very reluctant to try it again next time. Not only that, but they can psych themselves out in anticipation the second time around that they'll actually induce nausea.

And lastly, a killer app that I found which is a perfect seller of VR is Acron. If you don't have it, buy it; you'll love it.

It's a game that is perfect in every way - controls are simple (just one button to use), the game is static (player is basically a tree determined to protect its acorns from invading squirrels), it involves everyone present (other players play as squrells from their phones), it has a simple objective, uses an intuitive mechanic that we all learned as toddlers (pick stuff up and hurl it at whatever is moving), and it's a ton of laugh-out-loud fun.

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
Agreed, as much as I'd like to show other persons Stormland due to the very best graphics on the CV1, getting 45 fps asw 2.0 may (subconsciously) be really hard to handle for newbies. Also pushing ss 2.0 in Vader Immortal will have subjected my guest to 45 fps asw 2.0 again, although he was sitting on a chair. 
Abrash insisted on 90+ fps to reduce motion sickness, maybe my lesson learned will be to avoid games and apps with 45 fps asw 2.0 the next time... Even though 90+ fps may be no guarantee. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
There's a nice discussion here about many/most persons having experienced no issues with neither Index hmd nor the controllers etc:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/ehgmyc/who_has_experienced_zero_hardware_defects_with/

Personally I've found that when the bass gets really deep, vibrations are coming from the Index speakers. Rift CV1 might do the same - and now we're talking really deep bass - but to a much lesser degree. 

My question - if anyone has the time to check it out - if you start Fantasynth (free app) using the Index, are any Index owners able to not experience any rattling in the speakers? Note I have my volume set to 100 (max) in SteamVR, which really isn't very loud, but do reduce the volume if it's too loud. Fantasynth can be downloaded here:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/624460/Fantasynth_Chez_Nous/

I'd love to test my theory that all Indices will have this issues - but only when the bass gets really deep - I don't experience sound problems in Pistol Whip, Boneworks etc.
For the record, my high-end Sony headphones (40 and 50 mm drivers) play Fantasynth with as much bass as CV1 and without any rattling at all. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Luciferous
Consultant
Wouldn't it be great if someone invented a stable way to use Quantum processors causing 1000 fold increase in graphical processing. I wonder how long it would take game makers to catch up.

I wonder what Nvidia would do as well as why bother upgrading your graphics card or why even add  a graphics card if you have quantum processor to do it all.

RuneSR2
Grand Champion


Wouldn't it be great if someone invented a stable way to use Quantum processors causing 1000 fold increase in graphical processing. I wonder how long it would take game makers to catch up.

I wonder what Nvidia would do as well as why bother upgrading your graphics card or why even add  a graphics card if you have quantum processor to do it all.


Then we'd seriously need some better AI, Carmack!  B)

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RedRizla
Honored Visionary
Well I'm going to see if CES has a VR headset they can tell us about. Hopefully Samsung will announce something soon because if not I'm sliding to get a Valve index soon. Just need another £320 to pay cash for a Valve index now, so happy days 🙂

Maxxgold
Rising Star

RuneSR2 said:

Agreed, as much as I'd like to show other persons Stormland due to the very best graphics on the CV1, getting 45 fps asw 2.0 may (subconsciously) be really hard to handle for newbies. Also pushing ss 2.0 in Vader Immortal will have subjected my guest to 45 fps asw 2.0 again, although he was sitting on a chair. 
Abrash insisted on 90+ fps to reduce motion sickness, maybe my lesson learned will be to avoid games and apps with 45 fps asw 2.0 the next time... Even though 90+ fps may be no guarantee. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QL0GQT2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


If you know someone who can only stomach certain games for a little while before they start to feel ill, then buy those tablets and have them take 2. The tablets are chewable and taste good, and allow me to play the jankiest of games for hours with zero issues. 

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

RuneSR2 said:

Space Engine with more than 2000 ratings and a 10/10 average rating (96% positive) seems to be - maybe - the best app for showing space and the universe in VR. It now has Index support and I'm thinking about buying it - anyone tried it?

https://youtu.be/_IXjirybQRw

https://store.steampowered.com/app/314650/SpaceEngine/

PS. I think it has native Oculus support: "I’ve got an Oculus Rift CV1 a few weeks ago and already implemented its full native support (with Touch controllers)." 
Source: http://spaceengine.org/news/blog180302/



Ok, got Space Engine - and it's awesome - but it really was not the app I was looking for - just found it again, I mistook Space Engine for this one:

https://youtu.be/M67NS0_J5QM

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1093330/Conscious_Existence__A_Journey_Within/

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Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

PluckeyOne
Protege
I tried Conscious Existence - A Journey Within and it’s very nice. But I just wanted twin 4k display to really see it in all its glory.