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Steam Hardware Survey - Rift vs. Vive and WMR - results from August 2020 included

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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,716 Valuable Player
    edited November 2019
    Agree @DaftnDirect - I see the Rift-S impacted by the "wait and see" situation by Quest-Link. This can not be a good thing for Lenovo, even though they build both units, they had hoped for more from the Rift-S than a side-show to the Quest (considering the rev-split).

    I have to say I am agitated by the expectations on the Quest-Link, a last minute entry with a "catch-up" development plan - impacting the original business plan for their PC investment. This is a house of cards depending on a strong initial reaction from the community concerning latency. Very much a Google Stadia situation.  

  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,233 Volunteer Moderator
    edited November 2019
    It's an interesting time Kevin.
    It could be argued that if Quest owners use Link a lot, then that in itself is contributing to PCVR take-up, in that software devs will be increasingly motivated to invest in PCVR titles to sell to users, whether they be Linked Quests or Rifts.

    My only concern would be stand-alone hardware not giving as good an experience for PCVR, at least for this generation of headsets, in 2 aspects, comfort and graphical fidelity.

    What's interesting is how that will play out. Will Link be a gateway for people to enjoy PCVR and then decide it's enough fun to invest in a PC dedicated headset as their next investment? will Oculus develop the Quest and Link to address any disparity with the Rift when used for PCVR?

    For me, more PC software titles is now more important than anything else so I'm staying fairly optimistic about the effects of Link on the long term PCVR headset sales.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v2004 (19041.508)
  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 958
    3Jane
    It will be interesting to see steamVR stats when this link cable appears as i wonder how steam will see this hardware when the quest is running steamvr games via the cable.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,233 Volunteer Moderator
    edited November 2019
    OmegaM4N said:
    It will be interesting to see steamVR stats when this link cable appears as i wonder how steam will see this hardware when the quest is running steamvr games via the cable.

    Yeah I was wondering the same thing, I have a feeling it'll be recognised as a Quest as I'm sure Steam will use its USB hardware identifier as per Windows rather than the way it's emulating a Rift but who knows!
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v2004 (19041.508)
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,716 Valuable Player
    It's an interesting time Kevin.
    It could be argued that if Quest owners use Link a lot, then that in itself is contributing to PCVR take-up, in that software devs will be increasingly motivated to invest in PCVR titles to sell to users, whether they be Linked Quests or Rifts.

    My only concern would be stand-alone hardware not giving as good an experience for PCVR, at least for this generation of headsets, in 2 aspects, comfort and graphical fidelity.

    What's interesting is how that will play out. Will Link be a gateway for people to enjoy PCVR and then decide it's enough fun to invest in a PC dedicated headset as their next investment? will Oculus develop the Quest and Link to address any disparity with the Rift when used for PCVR?

    For me, more PC software titles is now more important than anything else so I'm staying fairly optimistic about the effects of Link on the long term PCVR headset sales.


    Could not agree more - interesting times indeed - but we need to temper the expectations.

    From the initial reports (without the full software update) the Link is great, but there are serious issues with latency and operation / compatibility. That would mean, yes, the owners would be contributing to the PCVR scene, and also be buying content, but would be receiving a below WinMR quality experience - so a sub-PCVR experience. I really wanted to avoid a new race to the bottom. Going back to the bad old days of GearVR owners telling me they have "done VR", only to have their mind blown by actual room-scale VR!

    I am waiting on the forums for someone to ask if they will be able to play the new HalflifeVR for the Index on their Quest Link - and then getting triggered when they are told the limitation, "...hey, but MarkZ told me this would be "as good as Rift!""

    The key winners, (if allowed), will be the game studios, as they will have a winder number of sales options. Sadly the reality of some 400,000 Quest sales means that for most developer/investors they will have to sit on the fence a little longer before committing - and the more they sit on the fence, the more "splinters in the butt", and more opportunities to do something else with the investment - especially in the face of the new generation of consoles on the horizon.

  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,997 Volunteer Moderator
    kevinw729 said:

    I am waiting on the forums for someone to ask if they will be able to play the new HalflifeVR for the Index on their Quest Link - and then getting triggered when they are told the limitation, "...hey, but MarkZ told me this would be "as good as Rift!""
    Can you expand on this “limitation” please? Why do you think they wouldn’t be able to play Half Life VR on the Quest with Link? They’ve already said that Link will support using unknown sources like SteamVR games. 

    Aside: I side-loaded the original Half Life onto my Quest this weekend with the Lambda1VR emulator engine. What a blast of nostalgia!
    i7 5820K @ 4.25GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32GB | Corsair HX 750W
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,233 Volunteer Moderator
    nalex66 said:
    kevinw729 said:

    I am waiting on the forums for someone to ask if they will be able to play the new HalflifeVR for the Index on their Quest Link - and then getting triggered when they are told the limitation, "...hey, but MarkZ told me this would be "as good as Rift!""
    Can you expand on this “limitation” please? Why do you think they wouldn’t be able to play Half Life VR on the Quest with Link? They’ve already said that Link will support using unknown sources like SteamVR games. 

    Aside: I side-loaded the original Half Life onto my Quest this weekend with the Lambda1VR emulator engine. What a blast of nostalgia!
    I played through the intro sequence and really had some fun. There were quite a few glitches though but I haven't checked lately for updates.
    Melee with the crowbar works very well though, better than it does with Fallout.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v2004 (19041.508)
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 6,473 Valuable Player
    edited November 2019
    Personally I have a really hard time understanding why VR isn't more popular. We got the best games on the planet and no one is more immersed - for example these are my current games and apps (Oculus app), I consider them beyond awesome (ok, haven't tried Groundhog yet) - and I got a lot more:



    There's so much awesome content that none of us have time to complete everything (and then there's always Elite, lol). 
    Maybe the problem is that few still have tried VR, or don't like to wear the HMD... Everyone who tried my VR setup has been extremely impressed - but they don't go out and buy VR. Maybe too little spare time, can't find room for the play space, or it's too expensive. 
    Now, where Asgard's Wrath doesn't seem to have had a lot of impact, I'm wondering if lack of content really is a problem - or if people don't like Vikings. Will Valve's flagship change anything? Will Stormland? I'm no longer sure... Then again, any impact of Asgard's Wrath, Stormland and the wait for Black Friday may not be registered in the Steam Hardware Survey until January or February 2020. 
    Valve Index Reddit hasn't gotten many more member the last months (still 23K members), I wonder if the number of persons willing to pay for the Index has been reached already - with the usual slow growth already setting in...

    Maybe good to have Zuckerberg and Newell to fund our toys, lol - not sure any of them need to make money of VR, I'm sure they won't die of hunger if Quest/Rift or Index don't sell. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 6,473 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    More semi-depressing results from November 2019 - or maybe it'll all change when the Quest Link Storm arrives, lol:


    So September peaked with 1.04%
    - then 0.01% down to October = 1.03%
    - and now 0.01% down to 1.02%

    It's quite stable. But again, Quest users are not included, but soon will be and that might increase PCVR users a lot. Asgard's Wrath does not seem to have had any noticeable impact, unless that game convinced more persons not to get rid of VR, lol. 
    Any impacts of Alyx and Index availability in Canada + Japan probably will not be seen before the start of January or February 2020. 


    Not much changed the last month here... 
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 6,473 Valuable Player
    edited January 2
    This is terrible  :s - Unless the hideous Quest PCVR soon reveals itself...  B)



    To put everything into perspective:

    September 2019 = 1.04%
    October 2019 = 1.03%
    November = 1.02%
    December 2019 = 0.87  :# 

    I do have a strong feeling the numbers don't contain Quest PCVR, but still these number are depressing. Anyone knows how Quest PCVR is identified in SteamVR? According to this post Quest Link is recognized as Rift-S, but with Quest selling like hotcakes the +0.01% doesn't make sense - unless SteamVR doesn't work using Quest Link:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/e05xcx/steamvr_recognizes_oculus_link_as_rift_s/

    For market shares we see:



    At least Index has gone from 4.93 to 6.65% which corresponds to a solid 35% increase in market share. Rift-S now has 18.4 % share up from 14.83, so that's a healthy 24% increase in Rift-S market share. Interesting to find out if Quest Link is added to Rift-S or not....
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • MaxxgoldMaxxgold Posts: 520
    Neo
    I think the sales just started to take off this Christmas with the Quest and Valve Index, as well as all the other headsets. With the announcement of Alyx, all headsets started to sell out. I think those numbers will start trending up soon. Also, factor in all the backorders. Index, Quest, and Rift S are all sold out into February. That may extend into March and beyond unless they ramp up production. Once Alyx releases, and as long as it is a hit, VR numbers will take off. I would be looking at the numbers after the release of Alyx and beyond. 
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,997 Volunteer Moderator
    RuneSR2 said:
    I do have a strong feeling the numbers don't contain Quest PCVR, but still these number are depressing. Anyone knows how Quest PCVR is identified in SteamVR? According to this post Quest Link is recognized as Rift-S, but with Quest selling like hotcakes the +0.01% doesn't make sense - unless SteamVR doesn't work using Quest Link.
    I believe the Quest Link does show up as a Rift S in SteamVR (I’m pretty sure it did last time I used it with SteamVR). I’m not sure there will be a noticeable uptick in PCVR due to Quest, though—even with the Quest selling out, I’m not sure how many of those people are connecting it to a PC and using SteamVR. Plus, as mentioned above, there is currently a pretty big backorder for headsets, so a lot of the holiday sales won’t show up in SteamVR for a while yet. 
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 6,473 Valuable Player
    Some user on Reddit wrote - and I tend to like this explanation:

    "Likely many more overall Steam users. (influx of chinese users) Look at the OS and language stats."

    Of course if the number of Steam users grew a lot in countries where few can afford VR, then this could explain that the number of active VR users may seem reduced even if it's not. Unfortunately Valve doesn't provide the real number of VR users. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,935 Valuable Player
    I didn't think they could use Steam in China, can they?
  • LuluViBritanniaLuluViBritannia Posts: 535
    Neo
    Assuming Christmas did create a spike in VR headset sales, it was not taken into account by Steam statistics for the obvious reason that Steam didn't have time to do so. Let's wait for January results, those are always the ones to look at.
    Current VR results imo:
    - Great small apps. Great ports of bigger games.
    - Great VR-specific features. Not enough showcased!!!
    - Too many actors in the industry, the market is totally broken.


    My hopes for VR next gen:

    - Better ratio between visual quality and power needs. No more godrays and less SDE.
    - Full Body Tracking.


    "If you don't mind, do you want me to take you there? Where dreams come true."
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,716 Valuable Player
    Interesting that this is one of the units on the list:


  • saami81saami81 Posts: 292
    Nexus 6
    This is another site that tracks current VR usage in Steam https://www.vrlfg.net/VRUsage
    We can see that spikes are in november-december. Going up every year, which is good thing.. 
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,716 Valuable Player
    saami81 said:
    ....
    We can see that spikes are in november-december. Going up every year, which is good thing.. 

    I am looking forward to seeing how Quest will be rolled into all this - especially considering how the Quest Link works. The HL:A impact is going to reshape the map, but also the issue with the FB social media needs will also have their impact. 
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 6,473 Valuable Player
    edited February 2
    January results just arrived - everything is looking better than ever - the Alyx effect  <3



    To put everything into perspective:

    September 2019 = 1.04%
    October 2019 = 1.03%
    November = 1.02%
    December 2019 = 0.87%
    January 2020 = 1.31%  :o<3

    So far these are the best ever VR results based on Steam! 

    Quest Link is added to Rift-S, so the Rift-S popularity may be inflated in these numbers.

    For market shares we see:



    Rift-S + Quest is getting close to CV1, but CV1 is still king ;) Index is close to all WMR HMDs. Vive non-pro still is no. 2 in the race... 

    Based on a rough estimation for Quest, I'd say about 2/3 of the hmds are oled and 1/3 are lcd. 

    And Oculus has about 55% of the Steam HMD share, making Oculus - by far - the dominant hmd producer on Steam. Thus it's probably safe to say, the majority of Alyx players will be using an Oculus hmd - and that will probably be the CV1 ;)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,286 Valuable Player
    edited February 2
    Hang-on. I don't believe the rise can solely be attributed to HL:Alyx. Sure that will have increased some numbers but we've just passed the holiday season which nets expected boosts in sales across-the-board. Also, there are several key titles that have no-doubt helped shape the landscape such as Asgard's Wrath, Stormland and S&S (biggest gains across the Rift platform).  With an increase in  decent releases like these then we'll see more interest in the sector.  VR software does needs to shake the "it's a tech-demo" mentality some people potential consumers harbour. 


    System Specs: RTX 3090 , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 6,473 Valuable Player
    edited February 2
    Could be, last year January 2019 showed a 14% increase, but this year the increase was 51%. The 0.87% in Dec 2019 was strangely low though, like some had removed their hmd and then reattached it. Maybe the real increase was more like 25 to 30%... but still that would be much higher than the Christmas effect last year.
    I'd expect to see effects of Stormland and Asgard's Wrath in Dec, although you're right that the current time is a great one for VR adoption due to the many AAA-like titles. S&S arrived Jan 23, I doubt that game has had a great impact on Steam hmd numbers, but maybe next month...
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,935 Valuable Player
    Should increase a bit more this week. A couple of friends of mine are coming over to try my Rift S and I'm pretty sure they're going to buy one afterwards.

    Spark has never tried VR before and Lauren has only tried a rollercoaster at a party so I think they'll both jump on it. Particularly when Spark tries VR Porn lol 😂
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 6,473 Valuable Player
    edited February 2
    snowdog said:
    Should increase a bit more this week. A couple of friends of mine are coming over to try my Rift S and I'm pretty sure they're going to buy one afterwards.

    Spark has never tried VR before and Lauren has only tried a rollercoaster at a party so I think they'll both jump on it. Particularly when Spark tries VR Porn lol 😂

    Nice, be careful with the locomotion though, one of my friends experienced profound motion sickness the last time, I probably should not have let him take a walk in Stormland  :(
    So First Contact, The Lab Robot Repair, Beat Saber, Art Plunge, Moss ... ;-)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,286 Valuable Player
    edited February 2
    snowdog said:
    Should increase a bit more this week. A couple of friends of mine are coming over to try my Rift S and I'm pretty sure they're going to buy one afterwards.

    Spark has never tried VR before and Lauren has only tried a rollercoaster at a party so I think they'll both jump on it. Particularly when Spark tries VR Porn lol 😂
    Be interested to hear what Lauren thinks of VR Porn. Most of it is catered towards men but the 1% that isn't might appeal. My missus tried it with a mixed reaction. I think the bottom-line is these things need to be shot/directed by women on the basis of appealing to women. Not men thinking they know what is appealing to women. 

    Interesting group mechanic you got going on there Snowdog.   +1:


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  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,286 Valuable Player
    @runesr2 what I meant was, the same rule that applies to HLA  can also apply to S&S. Obviously less anticipation with S&S unless you're a WD fan. People don't rush out and buy the headsets on the day of the game release. I assume then some would have looked at the release schedule before-hand and purchased a VR headset based on the upcoming releases as well as what's available now.


    System Specs: RTX 3090 , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,812 Valuable Player
    edited February 2
    The quality of games being released lately is the reason for more headset sales. I think that's quite clear to see and I just hope game devs continue to create quality content instead of some of the rubbish we see. I also hope some of the large devs houses don't just continue to ignore VR, given we have small groups of devs making quality content for VR. All this just goes to show what a few quality games can do.

    Unfortunately my Oculus CV1 is on it's last legs and I'm struggling to find a VR headset to replace it. I have a HP Reverb but it has some limitations. I just wish I could find a VR headset that matched the HP Reverb resolution and had better controllers with more camera's or outside in tracking.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 6,473 Valuable Player
    edited February 2
    RedRizla said:
    The quality of games being released lately is the reason for more headset sales. I think that's quite clear to see and I just hope game devs continue to create quality content instead of some of the rubbish we see. I also hope some of the large devs houses don't just continue to ignore VR, given we have small groups of devs making quality content for VR. All this just goes to show what a few quality games can do.

    Unfortunately my Oculus CV1 is on it's last legs and I'm struggling to find a VR headset to replace it. I have a HP Reverb but it has some limitations. I just wish I could find a VR headset that matched the HP Reverb resolution and had better controllers with more camera's or outside in tracking.
    If you don't want Rift-S or Quest Link, then I think it's hard not being able to use CV1 due to asw 2.0, but to some degree also due to oled.

    You could consider Vive Pro with Knuckles, but that'll be more expensive than the Index. Or get Index - or Pimax, but due to Alyx being just 1 of 3 Valve flagships I chose Index, also to support Valve's initiative - haven't regretted that decision. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,935 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    snowdog said:
    Should increase a bit more this week. A couple of friends of mine are coming over to try my Rift S and I'm pretty sure they're going to buy one afterwards.

    Spark has never tried VR before and Lauren has only tried a rollercoaster at a party so I think they'll both jump on it. Particularly when Spark tries VR Porn lol 😂

    Nice, be careful with the locomotion though, one of my friends experienced profound motion sickness the last time, I probably should not have let him take a walk in Stormland  :(
    So First Contact, The Lab Robot Repair, Beat Saber, Art Plunge, Moss ... ;-)

    Yup, I'm going to do the following in this order:

    1) Dreamdeck
    2) First Contact
    3) Google Earth VR
    4) TheBlu
    5) Robo Recall
    6) Elven Assassin
    7) The Climb
    8) SuperHOT VR
    9) Dreadhalls
    10) Face Your Fears
    11) Skyrim VR
    12) Fallout 4 VR
    13) Five Nights At Freddy's VR
    14) Elite Dangerous
    15) War Thunder
    16) Project CARS 2

    I think Lauren will be okay regarding sim sickness because she's a gamer but not sure about Spark.

    I had to put FNAF VR at number 13 😂
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,716 Valuable Player
    How long can OculusVR still continue to support Oculus Rift (CV1)?
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 6,473 Valuable Player
    edited February 2
    kevinw729 said:
    How long can OculusVR still continue to support Oculus Rift (CV1)?
    Oculus stopped selling CV1 in March 2019, but shops had supplies for longer, and you got 2 years of warranty in the EU. I'd say at least until 2022.

    Also Oclulus still sells brandnew CV1 sensors and Touch, these also come with 2 years of warranty. I doubt that Oculus has any plans of not supporting the CV1 the next years.
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
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