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i came to a discovery on why video looks worse on the index or reverb than the cv1

hoppingbunny123
Rising Star
i havent seen the index or reverb, but i have read this post by runesr2;


"
Watched a few movies using BigScreen Revive with Index res 200%, (=
solid 90 fps) and it's close to being in a theater. But one movie was
mkv another mp4, although 1080p it's just not good enough. You need 4K.
But
that's just me, I'm sure many persons with little knowledge about VR
would be totally blown away. With 4K and virtual surround sound I think
Index might be really close to IMAX at home
"

i decided to tell him in that thread that he probably wasn't using the settings i use for the cv1 to watch video, and i forgot my settings for watching videos, so i dusted off my cv1 and set it up and installed the software etc and got this fine picture of my virtual desktop settings for watching videos;

f7fpd1nr4u85.jpg


i watched a few videos and saw a artifact i hadn't noticed before, as a benefit of the cv1 screen-door effect. by there being a screen-door effect, the eye making the image more clear in the one spot looked at while blurry the other areas, you don't see the screen-door effect uniformly.

this adds a depth factor to the image, seeing the screen-door effect lines acts to add in detail that isn't there in the actual video frame. and that SDE isn't in the index or reverb, at least not to the level it is in the cv1.

therefore i deduced watching the same video in the index or reverb without the cv1 SDE quality would lack some depth in the image that the cv1 has. if you  had the eye tracking blur some of the video you might have the same effect but you might not, hard to say.

of note is the fact i often use negativescreen to produce visual effects in my video,s sometimes, so i know a beneficial video artifact looks like when i see one. the SDE adds in a lot of tiny effects that are attractive, using my virtual desktop settings above and in full screen video watching 1080p video, in the cv1.

but the cv1 is still a bit tight near my right cheek bone under my eye so i cant wear the cv1 for too long. i would like the cv2 to have a nice padding on the bones under the eye please...
28 REPLIES 28

Techy111
MVP
MVP
It may do in 2023     B)
A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

RedRizla
Honored Visionary

dburne said:

Wow the Reverb does all that? Perhaps I should re-think getting one...




Just don't say nobody didn't warn you about the cable and some other minor problems. The fact is that every VR headset has it's slight faults atm. But the HP Reverb is by far the best VR experience when it comes to visuals, if you have the computer for it. People will be kicking themselves they didn't pick it up when it was on sale for £435 because it's just gone back up to £598. I nearly purchased another one for that price.

hoppingbunny123
Rising Star
i read somewhere someone said it doesnt matter the vr resolution be it 4k or 8k, 1080p video will look the same, in the index thread i think;


so i remembered i made some test files to test the resolution. i will upload them and let you try them out and see if you see a difference between the cv1 and reverb and index. see the attached files

By Veikko Mäkelä - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0,


kf83oe08163u.jpg

9umt17updf28.png



below i match up the chart above to the calculator values to figure out the viewing angle;

for 4k video:
1. Distance to main viewing location 8
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 65 inches
32.9 deg.     Current Viewing angle

for 1080p video;
1. Distance to main viewing location 8 feet
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 45 inches
23.1 deg.     Current Viewing angle

for 720p video:
1. Distance to main viewing location 8 feet
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 25 inches
12.9 deg.     Current Viewing angle

for 480p video:
1. Distance to main viewing location 7 1/2 feet
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 20 inches
11.1 deg.     Current Viewing angle

for 4k video, closer to the screen:
1. Distance to main viewing location 4.92126 = 1.5 meters
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 40 inches
32.9 deg.     Current Viewing angle

for 1080p video, closer to the screen;
1. Distance to main viewing location 4.92126 feet or 1.5 meters
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 28 inches
23.3 deg.     Current Viewing angle

for 720p video, closer to the screen:
1. Distance to main viewing location 4.92126 feet
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 15 inches
12.9 deg.     Current Viewing angle

for 480p video, closer to the screen:
1. Distance to main viewing location 4.92126 feet
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 13 inches
11 deg.     Current Viewing angle


i watch virtual desktop view on mpc hc or vlc at 1.5m distance, at a 110 viewing angle, which equals this value;
my virtual desktop settings:
1. Distance to main viewing location 1.5 meters
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 194 inches
110.1 deg.     Current Viewing angle


the cv1 is 1080 x 1200 // 1200 is close to 1080p vertical pairity
the index is 1440 x 1600
the reverb is 2160 x 2160 // 2160 is close to 1920 horizontal pairity

using the values above, for 4k the viewing angle is 32.9 degrees, to see the video clearly. to see the video clearly at 100 degrees you need 12k video which is this viewing angle; 98.7

and thats per eye, for stereoscopic vr you need 24k video to see absolute 4k quality at 100 degrees viewing angle. what videocard can push 24k video at 90 fps anytime soon?

12k video is 6 times the resolution of the reverb, thereabouts for 100 degree viewing angle at 1.5 meters distance.




https://youtu.be/0t0RT4upbCM


hoppingbunny123
Rising Star
i did the math

for 4k video:
1. Distance to main viewing location 8
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 65 inches
32.9 deg.     Current Viewing angle

for 8k video:
1. Distance to main viewing location 8
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 130 inches
65.8 deg.     Current Viewing angle

for 12k video:
1. Distance to main viewing location 8
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 195 inches
98.7 deg.     Current Viewing angle

for 16k video:
1. Distance to main viewing location 8
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 260 inches
124.9 deg.     Current Viewing angle


if
vr headsets go 120 degrees for 4k quality at that degree you need 16k
video and screens. add in stereo and thats 32k for the videocard to
process for true 4k resolution in vr. like a new world.


currently
a gtx 1060 can run at 1080p for fortnite but fails at 4k, for me
whatever videocard can run fortnite at 4k best video settings then
multiply that to 32k and see the videocard necessary. now half that and
see what oculus can call true next gen vr, 8k per eye or 16k video from
the videocard.


for 4k fortnite you need a

RTX 2080 Ti


"You can turn everything to max and you’ll still
enjoy framerates well above 200 FPS, but that’s to be expected of a card
on the cutting edge of technology. Drop the settings to high and you’ll
get an amazing 270 frames per second on average, which means that you
can make full use of a 240Hz monitor with this card.

It’s also important to note that the RTX 2080 Ti (along with
the 2080 and 2070) features the ability to do real time ray tracing.
That technology is still in its infancy when it comes to applications in gaming, but it’s interesting to note that Epic Games made the demo for real time ray tracing in their Unreal Engine. Since
Epic Games are the creators of Fortnite it’s not a giant leap to assume
that this tech will be used in this game somewhere in the future.


1440 and higher

The RTX is the best card on the market right now, and it’s no surprise that it handles Fortnite on higher resolutions with ease.


At 1440p it stays well above 144 frames per second, even with
everything turned to epic, and when you put it to the test at 4K it
easily stays above 60 frames per second, even during the most hectic
firefights. "

then you see the ampere at 50 percent speed increase. it takes nvidia 2 years per card name increment. so in 2022 we can expect 100 percent speed increase, so count by 4 years for a 100 percent speed increase.

2080ti = 4k fortnite
2022 = 8k fortnite
2026 = 12k fortnite
2030 = 16k fortnite

then we take the high cost of the 2030 card and bring it to a cost everyone can afford one you wait another 4 years, 2034. ill be getting old by then, 2034.


Shadowmask72
Honored Visionary


i did the math



I think that's the problem. Your posts give me a headache. Can you not just base your analysis on what your eyes interpret rather than play the numbers game?


System Specs: MSI NVIDIA RTX 4090 , i5 13700K CPU, 32GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 11 64 Bit OS.

RuneSR2
Grand Champion




i did the math



I think that's the problem. Your posts give me a headache. Can you not just base your analysis on what your eyes interpret rather than play the numbers game?


Sigh, I was counting on you writing a short abstract covering all the main points  😕 

But I've done it myself  😉 I like the CV1 best for 720p and 1080p movies, because the res looks too low in the Index - but the CV1 SDE fools my brain so it somehow looks better. Sweet spot is bigger too in CV1. Also having (semi-)black backgrounds Index has more glare than CV1. And I like deep oled blacks in movies. 

I'm convinced I'd prefer the Index res 200% if I had true 4K source material, but - for now - I don't  😞 

Fun thing, I enjoy using the CV1 more now that I know how the Index looks. Before getting the Index, I was so sure I was getting left behind only having the CV1. Now I'm starting to see and understand all the awesome things the old Oculus Jedi Masters did when they designed the CV1. Things I once saw as problems - like the CV1 SDE - often are not without great benefits too. 

PS. Fortnite? Someone mentioned Fortnite. Is that a game? Is 16K Fortnite in any way interesting or important? 😉

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

hoppingbunny123
Rising Star




i did the math



I think that's the problem. Your posts give me a headache. Can you not just base your analysis on what your eyes interpret rather than play the numbers game?



ok, if your eyes can see the 4k at these specs;

for 4k video:
1. Distance to main viewing location 8
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 65 inches
32.9 deg.     Current Viewing angle


then you see it a 32 degree fov, which for vr is small. now expand seeing 4k into vr fov and in vr and you have 16k requirements at this specification;

for 16k video:
1. Distance to main viewing location 8
2. Choose Screen Shape: 4:3 (Standard TV Shape) 16:9 (Widescreen TV Shape)// i chose 16:9
3. Choose Screen Size: (Enter either a diagonal screen size or width):
Choose Diagonal Size = 260 inches
124.9 deg.     Current Viewing angle

this assumes you see the benefit of 4k at the first top specification in this reply. if you do then you see that same specification in the 16 k specification in vr for 1 eye.

by 2034 the nvidia cards will be able to show vr to one eye, by the time nvidia makes a card that can show 36 k  video the card can do the 16k per eye vr needs and be affordable to the public, then vr will be real. well into 2040

16k = 2030
20k = 2034
24k = 2038
28k = 2042
32k = 2046
36k = 2050

in the year 2050 vr should be real, to be able to see 4k realism in vr. vr will seem like a whole new world. i will be a lot older in 2050 tho. considering im an adult man in my prime now.


Anonymous
Not applicable


I feel like I am repeating myself here but you are restricted by the source resolution. This is why Adult VR producers as an example are producing content above 4K to get better quality.



Yup, 6K is pretty much the standard now for VR Porn with a half decent budget, and 60-90 fps too. Apparently. So a friend has told me. Not that I would know ANYTHING about these sort of things.

hoppingbunny123
Rising Star

snowdog said:



I feel like I am repeating myself here but you are restricted by the source resolution. This is why Adult VR producers as an example are producing content above 4K to get better quality.



Yup, 6K is pretty much the standard now for VR Porn with a half decent budget, and 60-90 fps too. Apparently. So a friend has told me. Not that I would know ANYTHING about these sort of things.



it would look better at the tv soap opera effect at either 120fps or 240fps.